for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Jordan Raanan on his GM breakdown

GFAN52 : 1/14/2022 12:22 pm

Quote:
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
32m
My breakdown of the GM search in here. Names I’ve heard the most so far (it’s early):

Joe Schoen
Joe Hortiz
Ryan Poles

Also extremely intriguing to me: Adam Peters
I got a piece of random asshat info  
Capt. Don : 1/14/2022 12:39 pm : link
that they were checking on Poles thoroughly via back channels since November. Same guy said that Chicago was also doing their homework at that time. I think I may have shared it then, if I remember correctly.

Im not an asshat, I just happen to know a guy in another organization that throws me stuff once in a while.

This is all far from a guarantee but like I said, theyve been looking into him since late Fall which indicates to me that he is more than a "Rooney Rule candidate."
Justin Penik  
halfback20 : 1/14/2022 12:41 pm : link
From talkin giants says they were checking into Schoen a while back too.
These 4  
Shock-Man : 1/14/2022 12:45 pm : link
Make the most sense to me. Wonder if all 4 make it to in person or if 1 doesnt and there is a top 3 next week before decision.
One would assume  
an_idol_mind : 1/14/2022 12:51 pm : link
that they've been checking on multiple candidates for a while.
What's this shows is that Hortiz is a major player in this too  
Chris684 : 1/14/2022 12:57 pm : link
given he's making the perceived cut but hasn't actually met with them yet.

But yes, I'd expect those are your leaders of the pack right now.
I was told by somebody  
Sammo85 : 1/14/2022 12:57 pm : link
close to NFL business end that Giants were supposedly doing homework on a lot of GM candidates as far back as October. Also said not to sleep on Ryan Cowden and really talked him up as possibility. Highly thought of in Tennessee.
Is it foolish to think someone from an organization  
Festina Lente : 1/14/2022 1:10 pm : link
You respect will be able to implement the way they do things there? I love the way the ravens build their team so should i be pulling for someone from the ravens FO? is that overly simplistic?
Honestly, I am sure that JM did his homework on all of these GM  
Rick in Dallas : 1/14/2022 1:12 pm : link
canidates back in the fall. I'm sure the retirement decision on DG was done long ago.
RE: I was told by somebody  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 1/14/2022 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15553021 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
close to NFL business end that Giants were supposedly doing homework on a lot of GM candidates as far back as October. Also said not to sleep on Ryan Cowden and really talked him up as possibility. Highly thought of in Tennessee.


Wow, if true, they should have just pushed DG out a year early. Would have benefited JJ and the whole operation.
RE: Is it foolish to think someone from an organization  
CSully1111 : 1/14/2022 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15553046 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
You respect will be able to implement the way they do things there? I love the way the ravens build their team so should i be pulling for someone from the ravens FO? is that overly simplistic?


No, I don’t think it is. Especially with a guy like Horitz who has been with one organization for most of his career.
I still want Peters from SF  
jvm52106 : 1/14/2022 1:17 pm : link
especially when you see how the right GM / HC combination can make drafting and signing players so much better.

It isn't always the "BEST" players it is the best player for your system and your system designed to get the best from a player.

I believe, truly believe, the biggest downfall for Judge was the fact that the Giants tried to be TOO versatile, TOO FLUID and in doing so never had a SCHEME as their go to scheme. We had a bunch of pieces with no idea what the finished puzzle will look like.

The 49ers draft guys that fit what they do adn allows them to take advantage of their skills- Deebo Samuel is a HUGE example but can be seen all over their roster. Their Oline is good, their TE's versatile - not locked in as receivers or blockers only, their RB's flourish regardless of who they are because the system all together works.

Peters-McDaniel is my GM/HC combo of choice. Not saying the others are not good but I want LONG term success and I think these two will be a force down the road.
I agree on the Ravens  
arniefez : 1/14/2022 1:22 pm : link
I don't know much if anything about the candidates. Just what I've read here and heard on podcasts.

My two favorites are:

Schoen because of what has been built in Buffalo since he got there, but more importantly to me his connection to Bill Parcells. Any even slight connection that Parcells could have to the current Giants is enough to get me excited.

Hortiz because the Ravens seem to always draft well, understand positional value and don't have to rely on bad FA contracts to find good players.
It is nice to see we are doing an apparently thorough search  
Mike in NY : 1/14/2022 1:23 pm : link
Chicago has requested an interview of someone from the Chargers who was not on any list but had previously worked for Bill Polian
I like all the candidates  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/14/2022 1:38 pm : link
I am surprised they did not look into Tampa. They draft well. They certainly have highs and lows but like the Giants in some ways they have put together some real good teams the last twenty plus years. Strong on the lines, impact D players. Big play capability, etc.
RE: I agree on the Ravens  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2022 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15553064 arniefez said:
Quote:
I don't know much if anything about the candidates. Just what I've read here and heard on podcasts.

My two favorites are:

Schoen because of what has been built in Buffalo since he got there, but more importantly to me his connection to Bill Parcells. Any even slight connection that Parcells could have to the current Giants is enough to get me excited.

Hortiz because the Ravens seem to always draft well, understand positional value and don't have to rely on bad FA contracts to find good players.
Same boat for me as to the reasons except for 1 caveat, I did not know about the Parcells connection.

+1
 
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2022 1:54 pm : link
If you look at Cowden’s career, it would appear that the Panthers and Titans had awesome teams and drafted well during each of his tenures there. Just something to think about.
RE: I like all the candidates  
Mike in NY : 1/14/2022 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15553096 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I am surprised they did not look into Tampa. They draft well. They certainly have highs and lows but like the Giants in some ways they have put together some real good teams the last twenty plus years. Strong on the lines, impact D players. Big play capability, etc.


Tampa has not been as good as you would think before Brady. In the 17 seasons between their Super Bowls (2003-2019), they had 2 seasons with more than 10 wins and 9 seasons with more than 10 losses. Their last playoff appearance before Tom Brady was when the Giants beat them on the way to Super Bowl XLII. Gruden left after 2008 season and next year will be the first time since then that a head coach has lasted more than 3 years.
My favorite, simply because he was associated for quite awhile  
Big Blue '56 : 1/14/2022 1:57 pm : link
with a winning tradition (a quarter of a century and counting) and a solid knack for spotting talent is Hortiz.
RE: I still want Peters from SF  
The Dude : 1/14/2022 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15553055 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
especially when you see how the right GM / HC combination can make drafting and signing players so much better.

It isn't always the "BEST" players it is the best player for your system and your system designed to get the best from a player.

I believe, truly believe, the biggest downfall for Judge was the fact that the Giants tried to be TOO versatile, TOO FLUID and in doing so never had a SCHEME as their go to scheme. We had a bunch of pieces with no idea what the finished puzzle will look like.

The 49ers draft guys that fit what they do adn allows them to take advantage of their skills- Deebo Samuel is a HUGE example but can be seen all over their roster. Their Oline is good, their TE's versatile - not locked in as receivers or blockers only, their RB's flourish regardless of who they are because the system all together works.

Peters-McDaniel is my GM/HC combo of choice. Not saying the others are not good but I want LONG term success and I think these two will be a force down the road.


Peters Mcdaniel is my first choice...but realistically i just cant see Mara signing off on McDaniel. And i get it, if you love Peters you should trust him..but still...cant see it.
RE: RE: I like all the candidates  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/14/2022 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15553123 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15553096 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


I am surprised they did not look into Tampa. They draft well. They certainly have highs and lows but like the Giants in some ways they have put together some real good teams the last twenty plus years. Strong on the lines, impact D players. Big play capability, etc.



Tampa has not been as good as you would think before Brady. In the 17 seasons between their Super Bowls (2003-2019), they had 2 seasons with more than 10 wins and 9 seasons with more than 10 losses. Their last playoff appearance before Tom Brady was when the Giants beat them on the way to Super Bowl XLII. Gruden left after 2008 season and next year will be the first time since then that a head coach has lasted more than 3 years.


No doubt. But the really good years they had a lot of similarities to the Giants. What they had a really hard to solving was the QB position and got a little lucky. Brady is no fool, he knew where to go. Dungy and Gruden had a really hard time with it.
Nothing surprising  
jeff57 : 1/14/2022 2:21 pm : link
I still think Poles is too inexperienced, and that Peters is too much of a west coast guy to leave. Probably between Schoen and Hortiz.
OK . . . .  
TC : 1/14/2022 2:32 pm : link
Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.
RE: OK . . . .  
cjac : 1/14/2022 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15553169 TC said:
Quote:
Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.


Whoever it is, its way way way way better than promoting Abrams
RE: OK . . . .  
GFAN52 : 1/14/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15553169 TC said:
Quote:
Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.


But with at 9 interviews scheduled, it won't be because of the lack of trying by casting a wider net than previous "wired" searches.
RE: OK . . . .  
jvm52106 : 1/14/2022 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15553169 TC said:
Quote:
Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.


See it is this kind of BS that bugs me. We seem to all agree the candidates they have chosen to interview are all worthy candidates. None of those guys are sure things so the only way we can fuck this up is if we pull a Houston and after all the candidates are lined up we go and choose one nobody was considering.
RE: RE: OK . . . .  
TC : 1/14/2022 2:37 pm : link
In comment 15553181 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 15553169 TC said:


Quote:


Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.



But with at 9 interviews scheduled, it won't be because of the lack of trying by casting a wider net than previous "wired" searches.

True 'nuff!
Picking a guy that doesn't work out  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 2:38 pm : link
is understandable. What matters, and what is worth being critical of, is the process that led to the decision to hire the guy.

You are never going to bat 1.000. Management needs to be judged on how they make decisions not only the results.
Schoen was my early choice..  
blueblood : 1/14/2022 2:39 pm : link
but Peters and McDaniel combination intrigues me greatly !
RE: RE: OK . . . .  
TC : 1/14/2022 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15553182 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15553169 TC said:


Quote:


Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.



See it is this kind of BS that bugs me. We seem to all agree the candidates they have chosen to interview are all worthy candidates. None of those guys are sure things so the only way we can fuck this up is if we pull a Houston and after all the candidates are lined up we go and choose one nobody was considering.

Never underestimate the resourcefulness of the Giants' brain-trust. ;-)
any chance we end up with 2 hires?  
LG in NYC : 1/14/2022 2:42 pm : link
don't really know the role of all of the candidates but is there a chance that one could be our new GM and someone else an Asst GM?
is the AGM role a step up for any of these folks?
RE: Picking a guy that doesn't work out  
TC : 1/14/2022 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15553188 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
is understandable. What matters, and what is worth being critical of, is the process that led to the decision to hire the guy.

You are never going to bat 1.000. Management needs to be judged on how they make decisions not only the results.

Could you talk to my bosses for me?
RE: Honestly, I am sure that JM did his homework on all of these GM  
TyreeHelmet : 1/14/2022 2:53 pm : link
In comment 15553048 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
canidates back in the fall. I'm sure the retirement decision on DG was done long ago.


Mara hinted at that in the press conference.

I'm not going to pretend to know in depth about of these candidates. I'm just happy about this quality list. Compare this to Gettleman, Riddick and Ross???
RE: I got a piece of random asshat info  
larryflower37 : 1/14/2022 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15552974 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
that they were checking on Poles thoroughly via back channels since November. Same guy said that Chicago was also doing their homework at that time. I think I may have shared it then, if I remember correctly.

Im not an asshat, I just happen to know a guy in another organization that throws me stuff once in a while.

This is all far from a guarantee but like I said, theyve been looking into him since late Fall which indicates to me that he is more than a "Rooney Rule candidate."


Poles make sense, NY kid and the Boston college connection he is very young for the position which is not necessarily a bad thing.
RE: OK . . . .  
cokeduplt : 1/14/2022 3:22 pm : link
In comment 15553169 TC said:
Quote:
Will everyone who believes the Giants will select the right GM raise their hands?

Now will everyone who thinks they'll fuck it up please raise their hands?

Your Honor, I rest my case.



Seems like lots of good candidates. Whoever they pick is assured to be light years ahead of Gettleman IMO.
Peters I like  
Heisenberg : 1/14/2022 3:47 pm : link
I have questions about McDaniel and whether he's really ready for /capable of the head position. Super smart guy though
RE: any chance we end up with 2 hires?  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/14/2022 4:03 pm : link
In comment 15553195 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
don't really know the role of all of the candidates but is there a chance that one could be our new GM and someone else an Asst GM?
is the AGM role a step up for any of these folks?


I think most will be happy if they can evaluate and get rid and replace people as necessary. Might be some that have gotten a little too comfortable. People tend to work better when a little pressure is applied.
If Hortiz is the GM  
lawguy9801 : 1/14/2022 4:38 pm : link
Can we call him Big Papi?
Adam Peters  
5BowlsSoon : 1/14/2022 4:44 pm : link
The guy is a PROVEN STUD……what a resume.

So, here is my hope….one of these three would make me happy, but in order, this is my thinking:

1. Peters (I don’t think he will come here though)
2. Hortiz….how can you find fault with the Ravens success every year?
3. Schoen…I like how the Bills have improved, but not sure I should over emphasize this…two years compared to 49ers and Ravens success??
RE: Adam Peters  
Mike in NY : 1/14/2022 4:58 pm : link
In comment 15553366 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
The guy is a PROVEN STUD……what a resume.

So, here is my hope….one of these three would make me happy, but in order, this is my thinking:

1. Peters (I don’t think he will come here though)
2. Hortiz….how can you find fault with the Ravens success every year?
3. Schoen…I like how the Bills have improved, but not sure I should over emphasize this…two years compared to 49ers and Ravens success??


Schoen appears to be well respected across the league and has significant experience in both Miami (under Parcells) and Carolina in addition to Buffalo. I like that he has worked his way up learning multiple vantage points. There is something to be said for that versus someone who has only been in one organization and knows one way of thinking.
RE: Honestly, I am sure that JM did his homework on all of these GM  
ColHowPepper : 1/14/2022 5:20 pm : link
In comment 15553048 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
canidates back in the fall. I'm sure the retirement decision on DG was done long ago.
Mara doing homework? Rick, if what you say is true--and I have no insight whether it is or not--who was driving the non-Abrams bus before the season went off the rails? Certainly not Abrams, Petit or Gettleman.
I just hope whoever they hire  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/14/2022 6:14 pm : link
Mara leaves him alone and trusts him to hire who he wants, revamp whatever needs revamping in the scouting / personnel areas and let’s him build the roster as he and his HC see fit.
RE: RE: I was told by somebody  
Spider43 : 1/14/2022 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15553052 Bavaro_the_Mafioso said:
Quote:
In comment 15553021 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


close to NFL business end that Giants were supposedly doing homework on a lot of GM candidates as far back as October. Also said not to sleep on Ryan Cowden and really talked him up as possibility. Highly thought of in Tennessee.



Wow, if true, they should have just pushed DG out a year early. Would have benefited JJ and the whole operation.


Agreed.
Thoughts  
AdamBrag : 1/14/2022 11:35 pm : link
Horitz seems like the best option given how good the Ravens have been at scouting, their use of analytics, their ability to accumulate draft picks, and their approach to FA. It also seems like there's a good system in place in Baltimore as things transitioned smoothly with Newsome retiring.

Schoen seems like a good option too because he helped Beane build Buffalo's front office from scratch. They took a good approach to rebuilding the offensive line quickly and really got some good players on the defense too. I don't think their scouting is as good as Baltimore and some picks haven't been great (Tremaine Edmunds, Ed Oliver, Harrison Phillips), so I'm not as high as Horitz.

Poles seems interesting in that he's analytically oriented and comes from a collaborative organization. The Chiefs have been very strong in drafting in recent years. Andy Reid has a lot of influence in drafting, so it's difficult to say what Poles is doing versus Reid and Veach. However, KC has always had a reputation for having a lot of good front offices processes in place. He's probably my number two choice.

I don't know a ton about Peters. The 49ers are another organization where the coaches have a lot of influence over the draft. He's getting a lot of hype, so there's probably more to him, I just don't know what it is. Most of the 49ers drafts have been boom or bust (with some really high boom picks).
RE: any chance we end up with 2 hires?  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2022 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15553195 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
don't really know the role of all of the candidates but is there a chance that one could be our new GM and someone else an Asst GM?
is the AGM role a step up for any of these folks?

It wouldn't necessarily matter.

For one thing, the title structure from one FO to the next isn't always consistent. So VP to VP could be a step up in some instances, lateral in some, and a demotion in others.

But more importantly, I believe that FO roles are viewed similar to coaching jobs in terms of NFL contract control. Which is to say, teams can't stop any of their FO executives from accepting a GM position just like they can't stop any assistant coach from accepting a HC position. But they can absolutely block an assistant coach who is under contract from accepting another assistant coach position elsewhere, even if that new job would be a step up.

So you can refuse to allow your QB coach to become someone else's OC, for example (and for the sake of saying it, because it tends to come up often, the Asst. HC title is meaningless in this context as well). I assume, but don't know for sure, that the same applies to FO execs; a DPP who is under contract wouldn't necessarily be allowed to leave for an AGM position unless his current team allowed him to leave.
RE: If Hortiz is the GM  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2022 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15553359 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Can we call him Big Papi?

Wouldn't you prefer if most of the fanbase liked him?
Back to the Corner