players at defense that the Giants could of drafted?! It’s sickening.. This is the reason the Giants needed to be blown up and start over. DG was beyond putrid!! He clearly was the worst GM in the league. And you can’t even put all the blame on him, it’s really the owners who are to blame for for him in that position and letting all this happen. This Organization has fell to an all time low. It’s embarrassing..
Yeah those were my preferred draft picks the last 2 years. Bookend all pro OT's...man DG knew nothing about OL.
Thomas played as well as Wirfs, at a tougher position. The complain on him makes no sense. He's playing with much better talent around him and Tom Brady who is basically the best ever at getting rid of the ball.
Yeah those were my preferred draft picks the last 2 years. Bookend all pro OT's...man DG knew nothing about OL.
Thomas played as well as Wirfs, at a tougher position. The complain on him makes no sense. He's playing with much better talent around him and Tom Brady who is basically the best ever at getting rid of the ball.
DG didn't miss on Thomas.
You're right on Thomas, i think we hit on that pick and will be very happy with his career. Just burns to see several recognized as the best in football at their position
Thomas is good but I think he needs to make a few Pro Bowls to justify his position. Good starting left tackle isn't a great ROI. Wirfs and Slater are better, IMO.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
Nice, if all else fails play that card and skip over any discussion.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
It's just been years of whining about how good our players would be if they would just have good players around them.
They aren't good. They've never been good. They wouldn't be good elsewhere. They're losing players on a losing team assembled by one of the worst GMs this league has ever seen. The proof is overwhelming, and the only argument to the contrary is the same BS excuses you and others have been spouting.
The team is bad because the players are bad. Thomas is one of the best of a terrible lot. Great. That doesn't make him good.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
LOL! Them playing two different positions is not an "excuse", it's a REALITY.
But we know you don't like it when facts get in the way of your narratives...
It's pretty clear the league values LT's more than RT's.
It's just been years of whining about how good our players would be if they would just have good players around them.
They aren't good. They've never been good. They wouldn't be good elsewhere. They're losing players on a losing team assembled by one of the worst GMs this league has ever seen. The proof is overwhelming, and the only argument to the contrary is the same BS excuses you and others have been spouting.
The team is bad because the players are bad. Thomas is one of the best of a terrible lot. Great. That doesn't make him good.
Well, if you insist he isn't good, that MUST be the case then!
why people are fighting over who’s better with Thomas and Wirfs.
Both are good players but ended up in complete different situation.
Thomas was drafted poorly managed and less talented Giants with questionable quarterback playing and Wirfs was drafted to Bucs who has solid oline already with GOAT Brady playing as quarterback.
So far Wirfs is having a great career with Bucs but I doubt he plays the same if he was drafted to Giants. Sometimes where you drafted makes huge difference in NFL. Same for quarterback,and other positions, too.
Just appreciate both are good players and move on.
that when I say the Giants should have taken Wirfs over Thomas, people on this board say I'm wrong. The homerism is so strong here. (See Jones, Daniel.)
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
votes akin to Gold Gloves in baseball? These are voted on by journalists, not scouts/coaches who are crushing tape. These votes can be driven by past reputation, overall team success, or even PFF grades.
Trent Williams, San Francisco, 46;
Rashawn Slater, Los Angeles Chargers, 2;
Orlando Brown Jr., Kansas City, 1;
Tyron Smith, Dallas, 1.
I think he'll be on the ballot eventually.
The non -TW votes aren’t exactly an overwhelming endorsement above a -0- vote getter.
I don’t know how great a season TW is having, but I’m a little suspicious of the vote leader getting 23x the number of votes the 2nd place vote getter has.
because his team isn’t good enough. Even if he played a perfect season and he was hands down the best at his position, he still wouldn’t have been selected.
If you look up and down those selections, you see that it’s composed almost exclusively of players on teams that finished in the top half of the standings.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
That isn't what I said, can't believe how easily words are twisted.
I'm of the opinion that Wirfs is playing with elite talent around him and to his credit, fits in and anchors that side at a high level. Thomas, stark contrast, plays on an incredibly weak line and anchors the left side as much as he can but has shaky play next to him so what he does well doesn't really stand out as much. If you aren't going to look at it in that lens than so be it, but I think its foolish to discount people that do.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Thomas isn't in Wirfs's class,
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
That isn't what I said, can't believe how easily words are twisted.
I'm of the opinion that Wirfs is playing with elite talent around him and to his credit, fits in and anchors that side at a high level. Thomas, stark contrast, plays on an incredibly weak line and anchors the left side as much as he can but has shaky play next to him so what he does well doesn't really stand out as much. If you aren't going to look at it in that lens than so be it, but I think its foolish to discount people that do.
as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
Teprs, Gettleman and Judge are gone, you're struck with Mara so it's decision time big guy. Did you hate the guys running the team and the direction they were taking it or do you just hate the team? BTW A great answer would be "Why can't both be true"
swap Mike Evans and Kenny Golladay - is it that ridiculous to think Evans would falter here and Golladay would play really well and motivated catching passes from Brady instead of Mike Glennon?
Team game people, the players around you matter. To varying degrees of course but to flat out reject this concept is pretty baffling.
votes akin to Gold Gloves in baseball? These are voted on by journalists, not scouts/coaches who are crushing tape. These votes can be driven by past reputation, overall team success, or even PFF grades.
Seems silly to get too worked up over them.
Journalists have always voted for All-Pro teams. It has always been the most respected measure of regular-season performance.
Journalists vote for League MVP as well. Journalists put guys into the hall of fame. Either we believe in it and respect the measurement or not. It's certainly a better measurement than pro bowls.
Wouldn’t it be great right now to have Wirfs and Slater on the roster
Bookend all pro tackles. Let that sink in my Giant friends. Terps and I are not saying that Thomas is not good but that Wirfs is better.
Instead were discussing who is the better prospect in this years draft Neal or Cross.
If Thomas had the exact same season as he did this year, but the Giants won 9/10 games, media would be all over Thomas as “one of the best young left tackles in football.”
If Thomas had the exact same season as he did this year, but the Giants won 9/10 games, media would be all over Thomas as “one of the best young left tackles in football.”
It’s just the way it goes when the team sucks
Two Bears made the second team - Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith. And the Bears were 6-11.
I think it's foolish to live in a fantasy world where we pretend to know how X player would perform in Y situation. It's complete conjecture and worthless to any actual discussion.
In the real world, Wirfs is an All Pro and Thomas isn't close to that. It matters because it's another example of Gettleman's incompetence and why this roster is such a disaster.
votes akin to Gold Gloves in baseball? These are voted on by journalists, not scouts/coaches who are crushing tape. These votes can be driven by past reputation, overall team success, or even PFF grades.
Seems silly to get too worked up over them.
Journalists have always voted for All-Pro teams. It has always been the most respected measure of regular-season performance.
Journalists vote for League MVP as well. Journalists put guys into the hall of fame. Either we believe in it and respect the measurement or not. It's certainly a better measurement than pro bowls.
I think you're missing my point. Plenty of positions are perfectly fine having journalists - basically lay people, like well informed fans - vote on. The positions that can effectively be judged by the equivalent of "back of the baseball card" stats. For instance, you look at the league this year and its pretty clear that the MVP is Rodgers, with Brady coming in second, TJ Watt as DPOY, etc. But some positions are a little in the weeds for lay people. That's why Baldy breakdowns make such enjoyable viewing, having a guy who really knows what he's talking about distill it.
I think it'd be cool to have an additional award for the big fellas. In the past the All Madden teams were a decent example of this maybe, but that's before my time. Sort of like the Fielding Bible Award in baseball, but that's purely sabermetrics, whereas line play is more nuanced than that.
My comments have nothing to do with Wirfs or Thomas.
This is really a joke as most voters really do not know the data behind voting for many positions and it is more like a fan voting for an All Star game. All Pro should be voted by the players and coaches - why does a writer get to select All Pro?
This is really a joke as most voters really do not know the data behind voting for many positions and it is more like a fan voting for an All Star game. All Pro should be voted by the players and coaches - why does a writer get to select All Pro?
Players voting on this would make it entirely unserious. Evan engram made a pro bowl and that's based on fans, coaches, and Players voting.
This is really a joke as most voters really do not know the data behind voting for many positions and it is more like a fan voting for an All Star game. All Pro should be voted by the players and coaches - why does a writer get to select All Pro?
I think it's foolish to live in a fantasy world where we pretend to know how X player would perform in Y situation. It's complete conjecture and worthless to any actual discussion.
In the real world, Wirfs is an All Pro and Thomas isn't close to that. It matters because it's another example of Gettleman's incompetence and why this roster is such a disaster.
That's the real world.
Your go to phrases that you use so frequently with such certainty and it gets you out of ever having to have a conversation that doesn't work in your favor. Love it, might start using that to see where it gets me.
I'm not going to do it based on "what if they switched teams" arguments. There's nothing provable there...it's complete conjecture. People do that with Jones, and I've seen it lead to insane comparisons to Herbert, Burrow, and even Rodgers and Brady. That's not a conversation worth having.
is we may finally have a lottery pick in Thomas who can live up to his draft slot. That's encouraging after back-to-back misses with Barkley and Jones in '18 and '19.
For me, missing on Wirfs isn't nearly the kick in the balls as missing out on Slater in last year's draft. Having on OL with both Slater and Thomas as anchors would have been tremendous moving forward.
you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
For some reason, you only say it’s “conjecture” when others give their opinions.
you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
For some reason, you only say it’s “conjecture” when others give their opinions.
I never said we'd go 3-0 with Fromm. Why make shit up?
you say you want to have a conversation about Wirfs vs Thomas….but then you don’t actually want to have it.
Thomas played a lot better in year 2. He had what….1 sack given up? How many pressures? Less than 10 all season? He shut down his man pretty much every game, on a really shitty OL with a QB that definitely holds the ball longer than he should.
Wirfs is definitely the better player right now. What we are saying is the future or the “projection” of Thomas is why the Giants drafted him, they thought he could be a pro bowl left tackle.
I haven’t seen anything so far to make me think he can’t be that, perhaps as early as next season.
Oh cmon dude. Yes you did. You said “watch, we’ll go 3-0 with Fromm and it will screw up our draft position.”
You said that. And I don’t care. I’m just saying - you’ve made some weird ass predictions lately but for some reason you think you only talk in “certainties” but you don’t.
You think Malik Willis can be awesome. What if he ends up sucking? Are you going to talk about that?
You are a bitter fan that doesn’t want to talk about anything
that isn’t about us sucking. Just admit that and be done with it. Sports is made up entirely of projections, what if scenarios, statistical probabilities, anomalies, and everything in between. If you are tired of people talking about Jones maybe being good on a better team then you shouldnt be on the threads. If you can’t talk about Thomas probably being a really good LT for the Bucs than that’s completely on you. “It hasn’t happened so I’m not talking about it” is the most juvenile stance to have in any form of debate or discussion.
Daniel Jones sucked here. See, I can do it too! Now I just need to muster up the balls to say it on every thread and maybe you’ll accept me into the discussion.
I did not say we'd go 3-0 with Fromm. Never even implied it. Made up.
Alright, we’ll now you’re just lying. But sure, fine.
As for Thomas, it’s time to just accept the fact that he’s our left tackle and he’s an ascending talent, one of the better young left tackles in football. Is he great? No, not yet. Nobody’s putting him in the hall of fame dude. You just can’t handle any discussion with someone being possibly really good on the Giants right now.
You probably thought McKinney sucked or was a bust after 1 season too. You probably thought Julian Love didn’t belong on a football field after 1 season.
You want to build through the draft and then can’t help yourself from making a comment about a player before their career even starts. Just give it a rest man. Thomas is not going to be traded, as much as you’d hope for that to happen.
and Justin Simmons. All players the Giants could have had recently, or were talked about as potential draft picks back when they were drafted.
You mean Jeffrey Simmons? We could have had him instead of Lawrence in 2019.
Now, Simmons has popped into an All-Pro and Lawrence is trending to be a JAG+.
I wasn't really thinking about Jefrrey Simmons, but Justin Simmons, the S, who was on the board when we took Darian Thompson. I believe Sy in his "what I'd have done" article said he'd have drafted Simmons.
I did not say we'd go 3-0 with Fromm. Never even implied it. Made up.
Alright, we’ll now you’re just lying. But sure, fine.
As for Thomas, it’s time to just accept the fact that he’s our left tackle and he’s an ascending talent, one of the better young left tackles in football. Is he great? No, not yet. Nobody’s putting him in the hall of fame dude. You just can’t handle any discussion with someone being possibly really good on the Giants right now.
Never said it. Made up. Like your idiotic arguments for Jones all season.
but also because he is one of the few good players this moron GM has put on the roster.
But with that said, Gettleman's questionable decisions aren't just players that bust or underperform causing the Giants to be a bottom-feeding team. Sometimes they are decent or good decisions but there are still yet better ones on the table to consider.
Thomas looks like a good decision...but tough to say he was the best OT to select that day based on how Wirfs has performed.
When you are picking at the top of the draft every year like Gettleman has been, he has to be flat out nailing these picks. But he hasn't, at all...
well I’m not gonna go back and look for your comment amongst the rubble, but you did. Not sure why you keep defending it.
Because I don't appreciate being misquoted by mouth breathers. If I'd said that, I'd own up to it. I've had no issues pointing out when over been wrong in the past.
in the context of All-Pro voting. They play different positions, ffs. If you're talking strictly about votes, you should be comparing him to Trent Williams who, at this point in both of their careers, is clearly the superior player. Saying "he got no votes" compared to Williams (rather than Wirfs) is the correct interpretation. How many votes Wirfs got at RT is completely irrelevant to voting for LT. Not a difficult concept to grasp.
You mean Jeffrey Simmons? We could have had him instead of Lawrence in 2019.
Now, Simmons has popped into an All-Pro and Lawrence is trending to be a JAG+.
I wasn't really thinking about Jefrrey Simmons, but Justin Simmons, the S, who was on the board when we took Darian Thompson. I believe Sy in his "what I'd have done" article said he'd have drafted Simmons.
Got it. That was back in 2016 with Simmons.
I'm just focusing on all of Gettleman's misses. ;)
From what I remember, you wanted the Giants to take Wirfs since he was your #1 rated tackle, but (rightly) predicted they'd take Thomas because it was such a Gettlemany pick.
I like Thomas though. Sure, they could have done better. But good God they could have done a lot worse.
you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
What's annoying is that like the inane "If Herbert were on the Giants he'd be as awful as Jones" or "if Thomas were on the Bucs he'd be as good as Wirfs" arguments, when someone attributes a made up quote to you it's impossible to disprove.
Terps, you’re lying. It’s not a “made up quote” - and you know that - which is the reason you keep bringing it up.
It’s alright. You thought Glennon was just as good as Jones. You thought Fromm would magically be kinda good and win games for us. And it’s because you hate Jones so much that it actually clouds your thinking.
player. Its like everyone has to suck. It is possible to have some good players on the team. Thomas is very good. Last season was hard because of injuries, coaching, and his ramp up. I think if he was better last year he would have made it this year. These perceptions usually take a year or so. If he plays the same he will be All Pro next year.
because they fired everyone and you feel vindicated - and you won’t just admit what you said because how dare you be wrong about something?
You can’t have a legit conversation with anyone on this board because you’re so far beyond being a fan of the team.
You ought to be able to find the quote if you're so certain it happened.
I read BBI a lot, and I read Jones and Terps threads a lot, and I never saw him say that. But I have seen you misinterpret other posts so I'm just gonna insist that's what's happening here. Why not? I have as much proof of that as you've offered.
I'm fine being called an asshole, because that's probably often true. But I can't stand people putting words in my mouth. I've taken enough abuse for saying unpopular shit here that I shouldn't have to deal with that.
By the power vested in me by the great skill of Google queries, I’ve found the offending post.
And no surprise who got it wrong. Link - ( New Window )
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
By the power vested in me by the great skill of Google queries, I’ve found the offending post.
And no surprise who got it wrong. Link - ( New Window )
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
Most roundly demanded that fans be less negative are found to have misrepresented comments or in another case literally modified posts to have an argument.
you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
What's annoying is that like the inane "If Herbert were on the Giants he'd be as awful as Jones" or "if Thomas were on the Bucs he'd be as good as Wirfs" arguments, when someone attributes a made up quote to you it's impossible to disprove.
Most roundly demanded that fans be less negative are found to have misrepresented comments or in another case literally modified posts to have an argument.
You thought Glennon or Fromm would be no worse than Jones. Actually you thought Fromm would be flat out better than Jones. Turns out they both can’t throw the football more than 5 yards. So yeah - I think we will all take a pass on your QB analysis.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
At any rate - you spent a full week touting Fromm. He’s fucking terrible.
I made comments about being pleased Fromm was being put into games too...so what? Go Dawgs!
The Giants were going to lose these games whether they had Jones, Glennon or Fromm in them, but maybe Fromm would show decently nevertheless and they could bring him into camp next season to maybe find a job on the QB depth chart.
Or because these games and the season didn't matter any more whatsoever, and it was simply annoying watching Glennon play so ANYTHING different was a little interesting to see how turns out.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
Can you possibly be anymore humorless?
I don’t know, it can always get worse, right? But I’ll take this as confirmation of my take on things.
Well - actually none. As I said - I actually don’t care. At all. It’s just extremely funny to me when stuff like this happens. Because my point was that posters who have been proven right about Gettleman think that everything they say is going to end up being correct.
We had folks here for 1-2 weeks basically going back into the Fromm highlights and saying wow this guy could be better than Jones. Look at his quick release! Wow! Look how he played on that one drive! Let’s see for next year!
And then - as it turned out - he’s probably one of the single worst quarterbacks that are employed in the national football league.
We had posters here, like Terps, who thought Thomas sucked and was a bust. Who thought McKinney was likely a bust. Who thought Love couldn’t play. Who thought Gates (pre injury) was a laughingstock. Who thought Leonard Williams was a terrible football player.
Again - predictions are fucking pointless. We’ve all got them. For instance - I still think Daniel Jones can be good. Do I give a shit what anyone else thinks about that? No.
The difference is - i actually don’t think im a scout or have more knowledge about football than any of you guys. But someone like Terps - he actually does think that. And that’s sad.
imagine that
thanks for the exhaustive research christian
This. Terps merely agreed with someone and HOPED the Giants would go 3-0 with Fromm. He didn't say he thought they would. Assuming that's the only quote in question, lol.
A lot of sweat and typing would be saved if people were more comfortable with just taking the mea culpa on what they thought at the time but were proven wrong and moving on to a different topic.
And I've never known him not to own anything that he's written. Had he taken the position ryan says, I'm confident GT would acknowledge it and move on.
For example, Terps was actually on board with the DG hire. But his opinion evolved and in less than a year realized DG was the wrong man for the job.
But he's a dick who's been right way more often than he's been wrong.
I'm reminded of composer Giacomo Puccini's opinion of conductor Arturo Toscanini: "The man is a pig," said Puccini. "When I think of how he conducts my operas I forgive him all his sins. But he's a pig nonetheless."
That Fromm WAS better than Jones. But people found the possibility that Fromm could show something to be exciting, which ain't nothing in the midst of an otherwise intolerable season.
However, Fromm might actually be better than Jones. It's too early to say! Let it all play out man!
How many votes for Leonard Williams?
Slater second team
I was a fan of the trade down but Giants better get a damn good player at 7, and Toney better turn into something
Quote:
https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-minnesota-indiana-tom-brady-1b8bec302e5d134566def739a78106f2
How many votes for Leonard Williams?
None.
Slater second team
I was a fan of the trade down but Giants better get a damn good player at 7, and Toney better turn into something
Or what? We already fired the guys that made the pick! Lol
Quote:
In comment 15552990 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-minnesota-indiana-tom-brady-1b8bec302e5d134566def739a78106f2
How many votes for Leonard Williams?
None.
Those salary comps really worked out well in putting together his deal...
Landon Collins and Snacks in 2016. Odell was 2nd team that year.
Parsons, Slater, Wirfs, Quenton Nelson, Trevon Diggs, Justin Simmons, etc etc
Both made 2nd team All Pro.
So glad our coaches and front office were "much happier" than us about our OL.
Thomas played as well as Wirfs, at a tougher position. The complain on him makes no sense. He's playing with much better talent around him and Tom Brady who is basically the best ever at getting rid of the ball.
DG didn't miss on Thomas.
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Yeah those were my preferred draft picks the last 2 years. Bookend all pro OT's...man DG knew nothing about OL.
Thomas played as well as Wirfs, at a tougher position. The complain on him makes no sense. He's playing with much better talent around him and Tom Brady who is basically the best ever at getting rid of the ball.
DG didn't miss on Thomas.
You're right on Thomas, i think we hit on that pick and will be very happy with his career. Just burns to see several recognized as the best in football at their position
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
They weren't hog mollie-enough.
Tired of the position argument
Yeah you all thought that Slater was a guard no he is a all pro LT
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
Nice, if all else fails play that card and skip over any discussion.
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I'll take Thomas. He's an ascending, legitimate left tackle.
Becton looked great his rookie season and awful this year and is constantly hurt. We made the right call passing.
They aren't good. They've never been good. They wouldn't be good elsewhere. They're losing players on a losing team assembled by one of the worst GMs this league has ever seen. The proof is overwhelming, and the only argument to the contrary is the same BS excuses you and others have been spouting.
The team is bad because the players are bad. Thomas is one of the best of a terrible lot. Great. That doesn't make him good.
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
LOL! Them playing two different positions is not an "excuse", it's a REALITY.
But we know you don't like it when facts get in the way of your narratives...
It's pretty clear the league values LT's more than RT's.
They aren't good. They've never been good. They wouldn't be good elsewhere. They're losing players on a losing team assembled by one of the worst GMs this league has ever seen. The proof is overwhelming, and the only argument to the contrary is the same BS excuses you and others have been spouting.
The team is bad because the players are bad. Thomas is one of the best of a terrible lot. Great. That doesn't make him good.
Well, if you insist he isn't good, that MUST be the case then!
LOL....
A bad start for a high-drafted rookie can take years to rebuild reputation. Ronnie Stanley didn't make All Pro until year 3 or 4.
He's ok. Like I said, he's not a bum. But in Wirfs's class? Nope.
Left Tackle
Trent Williams, San Francisco, 46;
Rashawn Slater, Los Angeles Chargers, 2;
Orlando Brown Jr., Kansas City, 1;
Tyron Smith, Dallas, 1.
I think he'll be on the ballot eventually.
Both are good players but ended up in complete different situation.
Thomas was drafted poorly managed and less talented Giants with questionable quarterback playing and Wirfs was drafted to Bucs who has solid oline already with GOAT Brady playing as quarterback.
So far Wirfs is having a great career with Bucs but I doubt he plays the same if he was drafted to Giants. Sometimes where you drafted makes huge difference in NFL. Same for quarterback,and other positions, too.
Just appreciate both are good players and move on.
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
Seems silly to get too worked up over them.
Left Tackle
Trent Williams, San Francisco, 46;
Rashawn Slater, Los Angeles Chargers, 2;
Orlando Brown Jr., Kansas City, 1;
Tyron Smith, Dallas, 1.
I think he'll be on the ballot eventually.
The non -TW votes aren’t exactly an overwhelming endorsement above a -0- vote getter.
I don’t know how great a season TW is having, but I’m a little suspicious of the vote leader getting 23x the number of votes the 2nd place vote getter has.
If you look up and down those selections, you see that it’s composed almost exclusively of players on teams that finished in the top half of the standings.
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In comment 15553112 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
That isn't what I said, can't believe how easily words are twisted.
I'm of the opinion that Wirfs is playing with elite talent around him and to his credit, fits in and anchors that side at a high level. Thomas, stark contrast, plays on an incredibly weak line and anchors the left side as much as he can but has shaky play next to him so what he does well doesn't really stand out as much. If you aren't going to look at it in that lens than so be it, but I think its foolish to discount people that do.
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In comment 15553122 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15553112 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Right. Wirfs is THE best RT in the NFL. And RTs face great pass rushers just as much as LTs.
Thomas has improved and that's what we want. But Wirfs is great and on the early road to Canton.
Well the league doesn't agree with you. A premium is still placed on LT by a pretty big margin. The highest paid LT is 34 and makes $23m per year, and a brand new top RT deal is at $19m per year mark.
I get it. Not a huge delta though. With such a scarcity of quality of OLs at all spots, my view is you grab one regardless of the spot - T,G or C.
In this case, I can't believe you would rather have the all pro RT or a good/solid LT.
That isn't what I said, can't believe how easily words are twisted.
I'm of the opinion that Wirfs is playing with elite talent around him and to his credit, fits in and anchors that side at a high level. Thomas, stark contrast, plays on an incredibly weak line and anchors the left side as much as he can but has shaky play next to him so what he does well doesn't really stand out as much. If you aren't going to look at it in that lens than so be it, but I think its foolish to discount people that do.
+1
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In comment 15553095 Go Terps said:
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as evidenced by Wirfs being first team all-pro and Thomas not getting a single vote.
Thomas isn't a bum, but he's not great either. It's ok to admit it.
Well if you aren't factoring in who they are playing with or that they play different positions than I'm going to go ahead and bow out, the time arguing isn't worth it. And if you did do the above and think about it a little, maybe you'd admit it.
The excuses and rationalizations continue...
Teprs, Gettleman and Judge are gone, you're struck with Mara so it's decision time big guy. Did you hate the guys running the team and the direction they were taking it or do you just hate the team? BTW A great answer would be "Why can't both be true"
Both made 2nd team All Pro.
So glad our coaches and front office were "much happier" than us about our OL.
Team game people, the players around you matter. To varying degrees of course but to flat out reject this concept is pretty baffling.
Seems silly to get too worked up over them.
Journalists have always voted for All-Pro teams. It has always been the most respected measure of regular-season performance.
Journalists vote for League MVP as well. Journalists put guys into the hall of fame. Either we believe in it and respect the measurement or not. It's certainly a better measurement than pro bowls.
Instead were discussing who is the better prospect in this years draft Neal or Cross.
It’s just the way it goes when the team sucks
It’s just the way it goes when the team sucks
Two Bears made the second team - Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith. And the Bears were 6-11.
In the real world, Wirfs is an All Pro and Thomas isn't close to that. It matters because it's another example of Gettleman's incompetence and why this roster is such a disaster.
That's the real world.
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votes akin to Gold Gloves in baseball? These are voted on by journalists, not scouts/coaches who are crushing tape. These votes can be driven by past reputation, overall team success, or even PFF grades.
Seems silly to get too worked up over them.
Journalists have always voted for All-Pro teams. It has always been the most respected measure of regular-season performance.
Journalists vote for League MVP as well. Journalists put guys into the hall of fame. Either we believe in it and respect the measurement or not. It's certainly a better measurement than pro bowls.
I think you're missing my point. Plenty of positions are perfectly fine having journalists - basically lay people, like well informed fans - vote on. The positions that can effectively be judged by the equivalent of "back of the baseball card" stats. For instance, you look at the league this year and its pretty clear that the MVP is Rodgers, with Brady coming in second, TJ Watt as DPOY, etc. But some positions are a little in the weeds for lay people. That's why Baldy breakdowns make such enjoyable viewing, having a guy who really knows what he's talking about distill it.
I think it'd be cool to have an additional award for the big fellas. In the past the All Madden teams were a decent example of this maybe, but that's before my time. Sort of like the Fielding Bible Award in baseball, but that's purely sabermetrics, whereas line play is more nuanced than that.
My comments have nothing to do with Wirfs or Thomas.
That said, if Thomas was Brady's left tackle he probably gives up zero sacks.
And Thomas is not "just ok". He's above average lets stop the silliness.
If we're discussing long term, I actually like Thomas b/c he can still improve. Wirfs too, but I believe Thomas can play at an all pro level.
Players voting on this would make it entirely unserious. Evan engram made a pro bowl and that's based on fans, coaches, and Players voting.
What do you think they got wrong?
In the real world, Wirfs is an All Pro and Thomas isn't close to that. It matters because it's another example of Gettleman's incompetence and why this roster is such a disaster.
That's the real world.
Your go to phrases that you use so frequently with such certainty and it gets you out of ever having to have a conversation that doesn't work in your favor. Love it, might start using that to see where it gets me.
For me, missing on Wirfs isn't nearly the kick in the balls as missing out on Slater in last year's draft. Having on OL with both Slater and Thomas as anchors would have been tremendous moving forward.
Wirfs went to play on a strong OL in front of Tom FUCKIN Brady.
not taking away from him, but put Thomas on the bucs and he'd looked pretty damn good as well.
oh BTW, Donovan Smith who is the Bucs LT was picked right after the Giants traded up to take Landon Collins a FUCKING SAFETY
For some reason, you only say it’s “conjecture” when others give their opinions.
For some reason, you only say it’s “conjecture” when others give their opinions.
I never said we'd go 3-0 with Fromm. Why make shit up?
Thomas played a lot better in year 2. He had what….1 sack given up? How many pressures? Less than 10 all season? He shut down his man pretty much every game, on a really shitty OL with a QB that definitely holds the ball longer than he should.
Wirfs is definitely the better player right now. What we are saying is the future or the “projection” of Thomas is why the Giants drafted him, they thought he could be a pro bowl left tackle.
I haven’t seen anything so far to make me think he can’t be that, perhaps as early as next season.
You said that. And I don’t care. I’m just saying - you’ve made some weird ass predictions lately but for some reason you think you only talk in “certainties” but you don’t.
You think Malik Willis can be awesome. What if he ends up sucking? Are you going to talk about that?
Daniel Jones sucked here. See, I can do it too! Now I just need to muster up the balls to say it on every thread and maybe you’ll accept me into the discussion.
Alright, we’ll now you’re just lying. But sure, fine.
As for Thomas, it’s time to just accept the fact that he’s our left tackle and he’s an ascending talent, one of the better young left tackles in football. Is he great? No, not yet. Nobody’s putting him in the hall of fame dude. You just can’t handle any discussion with someone being possibly really good on the Giants right now.
You want to build through the draft and then can’t help yourself from making a comment about a player before their career even starts. Just give it a rest man. Thomas is not going to be traded, as much as you’d hope for that to happen.
You mean Jeffrey Simmons? We could have had him instead of Lawrence in 2019.
Now, Simmons has popped into an All-Pro and Lawrence is trending to be a JAG+.
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and Justin Simmons. All players the Giants could have had recently, or were talked about as potential draft picks back when they were drafted.
You mean Jeffrey Simmons? We could have had him instead of Lawrence in 2019.
Now, Simmons has popped into an All-Pro and Lawrence is trending to be a JAG+.
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I did not say we'd go 3-0 with Fromm. Never even implied it. Made up.
Alright, we’ll now you’re just lying. But sure, fine.
As for Thomas, it’s time to just accept the fact that he’s our left tackle and he’s an ascending talent, one of the better young left tackles in football. Is he great? No, not yet. Nobody’s putting him in the hall of fame dude. You just can’t handle any discussion with someone being possibly really good on the Giants right now.
Never said it. Made up. Like your idiotic arguments for Jones all season.
But with that said, Gettleman's questionable decisions aren't just players that bust or underperform causing the Giants to be a bottom-feeding team. Sometimes they are decent or good decisions but there are still yet better ones on the table to consider.
Thomas looks like a good decision...but tough to say he was the best OT to select that day based on how Wirfs has performed.
When you are picking at the top of the draft every year like Gettleman has been, he has to be flat out nailing these picks. But he hasn't, at all...
Because I don't appreciate being misquoted by mouth breathers. If I'd said that, I'd own up to it. I've had no issues pointing out when over been wrong in the past.
I didn't say that. You made it up. Fuck off.
You mean Jeffrey Simmons? We could have had him instead of Lawrence in 2019.
Now, Simmons has popped into an All-Pro and Lawrence is trending to be a JAG+.
I wasn't really thinking about Jefrrey Simmons, but Justin Simmons, the S, who was on the board when we took Darian Thompson. I believe Sy in his "what I'd have done" article said he'd have drafted Simmons.
Got it. That was back in 2016 with Simmons.
I'm just focusing on all of Gettleman's misses. ;)
From what I remember, you wanted the Giants to take Wirfs since he was your #1 rated tackle, but (rightly) predicted they'd take Thomas because it was such a Gettlemany pick.
I like Thomas though. Sure, they could have done better. But good God they could have done a lot worse.
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
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you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
What's annoying is that like the inane "If Herbert were on the Giants he'd be as awful as Jones" or "if Thomas were on the Bucs he'd be as good as Wirfs" arguments, when someone attributes a made up quote to you it's impossible to disprove.
It’s alright. You thought Glennon was just as good as Jones. You thought Fromm would magically be kinda good and win games for us. And it’s because you hate Jones so much that it actually clouds your thinking.
We all get it. It’s not a big deal man
You can’t have a legit conversation with anyone on this board because you’re so far beyond being a fan of the team.
You can’t have a legit conversation with anyone on this board because you’re so far beyond being a fan of the team.
You ought to be able to find the quote if you're so certain it happened.
I read BBI a lot, and I read Jones and Terps threads a lot, and I never saw him say that. But I have seen you misinterpret other posts so I'm just gonna insist that's what's happening here. Why not? I have as much proof of that as you've offered.
And no surprise who got it wrong.
Link - ( New Window )
And no surprise who got it wrong. Link - ( New Window )
Ryan making stuff up again? What a shock
Calling someone a liar should at least be backed up.
And no surprise who got it wrong. Link - ( New Window )
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
thanks for the exhaustive research christian
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By the power vested in me by the great skill of Google queries, I’ve found the offending post.
And no surprise who got it wrong. Link - ( New Window )
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
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In comment 15553413 ryanmkeane said:
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you use the same arguments all the time - but you never seem to say that when you’re wrong. Like saying “the offense probably won’t change with Glennon” or “we will probably go 3-0 with Fromm.”
That doesn't sound like something Terps would say and I never saw him say it, but even if he did, that's not as silly as you insisting we were going to go 17-0 with Daniel Jones.
(see what I did there? Anyone can make up something someone else never said)
What's annoying is that like the inane "If Herbert were on the Giants he'd be as awful as Jones" or "if Thomas were on the Bucs he'd be as good as Wirfs" arguments, when someone attributes a made up quote to you it's impossible to disprove.
It's possible sometimes...
Who’s the other?
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
Can you possibly be anymore humorless?
I made comments about being pleased Fromm was being put into games too...so what? Go Dawgs!
The Giants were going to lose these games whether they had Jones, Glennon or Fromm in them, but maybe Fromm would show decently nevertheless and they could bring him into camp next season to maybe find a job on the QB depth chart.
Or because these games and the season didn't matter any more whatsoever, and it was simply annoying watching Glennon play so ANYTHING different was a little interesting to see how turns out.
What the hell difference does this make Ryan?
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In comment 15553679 bw in dc said:
I'm sure there is a plausible answer.
Perhaps ryan received an email from a former poster from Charlotte with quotes by Terps that were cut and pasted from a BBI thread. And so he assumed they were accurate. ;)
I must say, he lives rent free in your mind. Not sure anyone brings up a former or even active poster more than you do.
Can you possibly be anymore humorless?
I don’t know, it can always get worse, right? But I’ll take this as confirmation of my take on things.
Jones is definitely better than those 2 but nowhere near good enough.
Well - actually none. As I said - I actually don’t care. At all. It’s just extremely funny to me when stuff like this happens. Because my point was that posters who have been proven right about Gettleman think that everything they say is going to end up being correct.
We had folks here for 1-2 weeks basically going back into the Fromm highlights and saying wow this guy could be better than Jones. Look at his quick release! Wow! Look how he played on that one drive! Let’s see for next year!
And then - as it turned out - he’s probably one of the single worst quarterbacks that are employed in the national football league.
We had posters here, like Terps, who thought Thomas sucked and was a bust. Who thought McKinney was likely a bust. Who thought Love couldn’t play. Who thought Gates (pre injury) was a laughingstock. Who thought Leonard Williams was a terrible football player.
Again - predictions are fucking pointless. We’ve all got them. For instance - I still think Daniel Jones can be good. Do I give a shit what anyone else thinks about that? No.
The difference is - i actually don’t think im a scout or have more knowledge about football than any of you guys. But someone like Terps - he actually does think that. And that’s sad.
.
Right, and that’s the correct take.
Learn to tell the difference.
Learn to tell the difference.
And this is exactly what happens every single time.
Which is why actual conversation with you and Terps is fucking impossible - because you don’t want to actually engage in serious convo.
You then post another brick of paragraphs of boogie men arguments unnamed people made.
You’re the last person on this site who should be ridiculing others about being serious.
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by posters. You're are doing in your post above as well and now going off the deep end for really no reason.
Learn to tell the difference.
And this is exactly what happens every single time.
Which is why actual conversation with you and Terps is fucking impossible - because you don’t want to actually engage in serious convo.
Come...again? I write a ton of posts that engage on numerous football topics, some serious and some not so much.
Don't mistake my trying to bring a little levity to threads here as anything other than offsetting the nonsense and temper tantrums of others...
thanks for the exhaustive research christian
This. Terps merely agreed with someone and HOPED the Giants would go 3-0 with Fromm. He didn't say he thought they would. Assuming that's the only quote in question, lol.
And I've never known him not to own anything that he's written. Had he taken the position ryan says, I'm confident GT would acknowledge it and move on.
For example, Terps was actually on board with the DG hire. But his opinion evolved and in less than a year realized DG was the wrong man for the job.
I'm reminded of composer Giacomo Puccini's opinion of conductor Arturo Toscanini: "The man is a pig," said Puccini. "When I think of how he conducts my operas I forgive him all his sins. But he's a pig nonetheless."
However, Fromm might actually be better than Jones. It's too early to say! Let it all play out man!