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GM,Coach and Defensive Scheme

thomasa510 : 1/14/2022 1:48 pm
What direction do you prefer new team management to go in terms of defensive scheme. A 4-3, a 3-4, or some more hybrid scheme.

I have always liked the 4-3 with a few premier rushers on the outside and a solid middle linebacker. Theoretically, a 3-4 can be better designed for covering tight ends.

What are your preferances?
I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
robbieballs2003 : 1/14/2022 1:56 pm : link
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?
Not sure,  
Jimmycal : 1/14/2022 2:02 pm : link
and while there is lots of fixation on upgrading Edge and improving the pass rush (warranted of course), equally if not more important is upgrading MLB. Martinez was a massive loss, and hope he can come back. Best our defense looked in years was with him playing well last year. Crowder is beyond awful. A kick ass MLB would have the biggest impact on improving our D and allowing a DC to be creative on scheming. Which is why Lloyd or Dean must be considered.
I  
thomasa510 : 1/14/2022 2:06 pm : link
I definitely see the point of taking supply and demand into consideration
blake may not be all pro  
Payasdaddy : 1/14/2022 2:09 pm : link
but i like how he plays ILB
team him with a lloyd or C harris (even if its a rd 1 pick after a trade down)and I think it really helps D
If u told me we traded from 7 to 20 and grabbed a 2021 2 and 4 plus a 2023 #1 (for future qb ammo) i would be down
lloyd or harris could both be there
and we could still draft ER and two Oline in 1st two rds
I prefer thenew coach moves away from Graham's bend don't break  
Jack Stroud : 1/14/2022 2:10 pm : link
defense. That was such a terrible idea! I prefer a more attacking defense, press coverage, and a DC who can finally figure how to defense the TE!
Whatever front  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/14/2022 2:22 pm : link
they need more impact players in the front 7. The more players that create mismatches or force teams or force teams to account for them the better. Put a really good DC in place and let him figure it out. Speed, Power and nasty tends to cause headaches.


I agree about the MLB in a 4-3 and two really good ones in the 3-4.
I want  
Giants : 1/14/2022 2:24 pm : link
A defense that can get after the QB. Bring in DL and LB who can control the line as well as put pressure on the QB. Look at how teams beat the top QB. They bring the pressure.
RE: What direction do you prefer new team management to go  
Trainmaster : 1/14/2022 2:34 pm : link
Winning.

That's the only direction that matters.
RE: I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
jvm52106 : 1/14/2022 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15553125 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?


I agree and disagree. Our issue with the 3-4 is what kind of 3-4 it is. We do not play the traditional 3-4 and we certainly do not play what the Steelers do. Our OLB's are oddly mixed and we do not have a TRUE outside threat there. Ojulari isn't that guy though he can be a solid OLB. Add to the fact that we have a weird Front 3 as well and a group that doesn't compliment each other very well.
Wouldn't we have to reset?  
David_Upstate : 1/14/2022 2:43 pm : link
Not saying we have a ton of talent but if they moved to a 4-3 our good players don't fit it correct?

Ojulari Williams Dex (obviously DBs don't matter) so you would need to fill those positions plus new players

Stay in 3-4 ... find an edge rusher ILB to go with Martinez and a BIG NT that is actually a NT that keeps the ILB clean
RE: Wouldn't we have to reset?  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 2:51 pm : link
In comment 15553197 David_Upstate said:
Quote:
Not saying we have a ton of talent but if they moved to a 4-3 our good players don't fit it correct?

Ojulari Williams Dex (obviously DBs don't matter) so you would need to fill those positions plus new players

Stay in 3-4 ... find an edge rusher ILB to go with Martinez and a BIG NT that is actually a NT that keeps the ILB clean

As far as Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams are concerned, we wouldn't have to reset. Lawrence is already playing somewhat out of position as a 3-4 DE and Leonard Williams can play either 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. They'd be the two DTs in a 4-3.
RE: RE: Wouldn't we have to reset?  
David_Upstate : 1/14/2022 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15553212 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15553197 David_Upstate said:


Quote:


Not saying we have a ton of talent but if they moved to a 4-3 our good players don't fit it correct?

Ojulari Williams Dex (obviously DBs don't matter) so you would need to fill those positions plus new players

Stay in 3-4 ... find an edge rusher ILB to go with Martinez and a BIG NT that is actually a NT that keeps the ILB clean


As far as Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams are concerned, we wouldn't have to reset. Lawrence is already playing somewhat out of position as a 3-4 DE and Leonard Williams can play either 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT. They'd be the two DTs in a 4-3.


So that works and say you draft Karlaftis for one DE ... can Blake play MLB? Can Ojulari play one of the OLB? ... could Roche play the other DE spot?
Multiple  
Giantimistic : 1/14/2022 2:57 pm : link
We should be Multiple.
RE: Multiple  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15553223 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
We should be Multiple.

What has it brought us? Right now we're a master of none.
RE: RE: Multiple  
jvm52106 : 1/14/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15553226 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15553223 Giantimistic said:


Quote:


We should be Multiple.


What has it brought us? Right now we're a master of none.


Exactly. You need an identity first and then variation. When you have nothing that is your backbone the rest is just a miss mashed mess.
I too hated Graham's soft defense. How many times did we see the DB  
Giants61 : 1/14/2022 3:45 pm : link
backpedaling on 3rd and less than 10 giving the opponent clear shot at getting the first down and extending the opponents possesion. More agressive and press defense
I think most of us can agree  
MattinKY : 1/14/2022 3:51 pm : link
The NY Giants should be a dominant defense.
A front 7 that terrorizes the opposing offense.
Same on offense.
Impose your will on the opposing defense. They know the run is coming and there is nothing they can do about it.
The end.
I don't really have a preference.  
PakistanPete : 1/14/2022 3:57 pm : link
Every team effectively runs a hybrid.

Just draft the BPA and then shape your tendencies around your strengths.

Of course, I wouldn't hate it if we had NASCAR again.
RE: I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
Bones : 1/14/2022 3:59 pm : link
In comment 15553125 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?


This is exactly right.
I'd like a heavier mix of Scheming to pressure  
Rafflee : 1/14/2022 4:05 pm : link
It seemed that they schemed to Coverage. I don't think a steady diet of "coverage" is disruptive enough to offensive timing. All of that said, they lost a really good sideline to sideline defender in Martinez. The Edges did step up as the season progressed. Oju looked talented and he can be productive. Lorenzo would be a nice keep if it can be done...I think he's ready to play. The defense has a core of promise.
RE: I prefer thenew coach moves away from Graham's bend don't break  
Gruber : 1/14/2022 4:16 pm : link
In comment 15553151 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
defense. That was such a terrible idea! I prefer a more attacking defense, press coverage, and a DC who can finally figure how to defense the TE!


I mean, if you go Joe Hortiz and Wink Martindale, then surely this gets sorted out.
If you want  
Daniel in MI : 1/14/2022 4:22 pm : link
To go 3-4, just as important as edge are NT and DTs that can 2-gap. That’s a very different thing than penetrating 1-gap lineman. Requires being very stout. Are our current DL capable? Do you waste Big Cat doing that? Even if the new coaches want to go 3-4 ultimately it might be a transition getting there.
RE: I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
cpgiants : 1/14/2022 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15553125 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?


One of the more insightful posts I've seen on here in quite sometime. Bravo to you....
I don't have a preference  
Matt M. : 1/14/2022 4:52 pm : link
Not because I don't care, but because we don't remotely have ideal personnel for either. For a 3-4 we do t have a stout NT and we dont have any LBs other than Martinez and who knows where he will be physically. For a 4-3 we do not have the DEs and outside of Williams, I'm not sure about DT. either. As with 3-4, we don't have a single LB other than Martinez to play MLB and we don't really have a LB to play SSLB either.

I just hope we have a GM, HC, and DC who can get on thw same page abd start adding appropriate personnel for whatever scheme they like.
My personal preference is 4-3,  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 5:00 pm : link
having grown up with fond memories of Strahan and Hammer terrorizing quarterbacks in grade school and later the Four Aces/Nascar pass rush.

Too many people are misreading the "bend but don't break"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 5:27 pm : link
Thing as some kind of blunder. Most of the league plays to give up yards and tighten up in the red zone.

There are very few teams that are both good at stopping points AND yards.

It's too easy in the NFL to move the ball based on modern era rules to define a good defense as one that just stops everything. It does not happen. Teams like 2021 Buffalo are exceptions and that's good coaching AND elite talent coming together.
RE: Too many people are misreading the  
Angel Eyes : 1/14/2022 5:31 pm : link
In comment 15553401 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Thing as some kind of blunder. Most of the league plays to give up yards and tighten up in the red zone.

There are very few teams that are both good at stopping points AND yards.

It's too easy in the NFL to move the ball based on modern era rules to define a good defense as one that just stops everything. It does not happen. Teams like 2021 Buffalo are exceptions and that's good coaching AND elite talent coming together.

That defense cost us at least two games and proved to be a sieve in the two-minute drill.
RE: RE: Too many people are misreading the  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/14/2022 6:08 pm : link
In comment 15553403 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15553401 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Thing as some kind of blunder. Most of the league plays to give up yards and tighten up in the red zone.

There are very few teams that are both good at stopping points AND yards.

It's too easy in the NFL to move the ball based on modern era rules to define a good defense as one that just stops everything. It does not happen. Teams like 2021 Buffalo are exceptions and that's good coaching AND elite talent coming together.


That defense cost us at least two games and proved to be a sieve in the two-minute drill.


I didn't say the Giants defense was great or even good.

Give me five teams you think of as "attacking, good defenses" and I'd bet you'd be surprised where they rank in yards allowed.

Its not that Difficult  
Bruner4329 : 1/14/2022 6:22 pm : link
To answer this question. There is no way we should play a 3-4 unless we get some quality linebackers on this team. Again who was the last good linebacker drafted here? Armstead? Over the past 10 years we have had maybe one good LB at a time but never more. The rest have been fill ins. WE have lacked speed and skills from this position for years.
I hate the 3-4  
Ike#88 : 1/14/2022 7:14 pm : link
many times defenses in the NFL line up in a 5-2 like I played in high school. We need 2 defensive tackles which we have and find 2 DE's. F the 3-4.
I love the 4-3.  
Shady Lurker : 1/14/2022 7:19 pm : link
I think the 3-4 made perfect sense years ago when most teams were running the 4-3 and you could get undervalued 3-4 linebackers on the cheap.

We've had a 180 degree swap since then though and I think the value is on 4-3 pieces again.
RE: I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/14/2022 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15553125 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?


Thank you. Well said. The quick and the dead.
RE: I don't care one way or another and a coach will want his way  
Brown_Hornet : 1/14/2022 9:23 pm : link
In comment 15553125 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But, what never gets talked about is what other teams do. What I mean by that was when we had Strahan, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwi, we had an incredible strength. Then what happened? Finding true DEs was becoming more and more rare and teams were switching to a 3-4 and finding edges all over the place while 4-3 teams were struggling to find true DEs. Then what did we do? We were late following the trend of a 3-4 so that means less players available at those positions because most teams were looking for those types. The key is reading the landscape and starting the trend, not following it. How does the college game look? Are they producing more 4-3 DEs or 3-4 OLB? What are teams doing? Are they targeting one of these groups?
This is a great post.
I look at offensive production in the same way.
While the rules have made it easier to become a passing team, defenses have changed to combat the trend. If a team is able to really run the ball, defenses are now less likely to be able to defend vs the run.
This is not a suggestion that a team not take advantage of the passing rules, just an observation.
Whatever  
OC2.0 : 1/15/2022 2:46 am : link
It is, 3/4 4/3 or otherwise, the new DC has GOT to figure out the pass rush. Also the secondary needs play more agressive.
This soft shit hasn't worked. We have good safeties to do so.
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