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Andrew Thomas...is he better than 'OK'?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/14/2022 7:52 pm
Came up on another thread & I wanna pose the question to BBI at large.

I think it obviously Yes. He is the one offensive building block IMO.
Who, on this board, says he is just "OK"?  
Aaroninma : 1/14/2022 7:57 pm : link
He is clearly a top flight OT, will probably be an elite level player by next season.

We are talking top 2-3 OT's in the game
He’s a building block for the future.  
eric2425ny : 1/14/2022 7:59 pm : link
While our line is awful as currently constructed at least we found a good one at the most difficult line position to fill.
Felt bad for him  
averagejoe : 1/14/2022 8:00 pm : link
having to play with four scrubs. He was outstanding and still improving .
Hes  
Straw Hat : 1/14/2022 8:01 pm : link
Great imo. Best player on the giants by a mile.
.  
Slowasski : 1/14/2022 8:02 pm : link
Thomas’ surrounding players are irrelevant. You are either good or you are not.
No comment  
UConn4523 : 1/14/2022 8:02 pm : link
.
.  
Slowasski : 1/14/2022 8:02 pm : link
Thomas’ surrounding players are irrelevant. You are either good or you are not.
Of course he's better than OK.  
j_rud : 1/14/2022 8:03 pm : link
I hope he's a building block. I called him the lone offensive building block on the tram in a thread yesterday, but we don't know what the ceiling is either. This year was a step forward for sure but just like McKinney he's gotta do it again before you can really count on him.

So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.
He has settled in  
Ike#88 : 1/14/2022 8:03 pm : link
to being a reliable cog in the machine. Nice to have the LT position locked down.
 
christian : 1/14/2022 8:06 pm : link
Sale described Thomas very well, as a highly dependable, know what you’re going to get player. That’s a great place to be as a 2nd year starter playing on a terrible line.

The metrics are good — he doesn’t give up many pressures and he’s got a good running blocking win rate. He’s a clean player, a good player.

The next step, the near All Pro level, is a guy who consistently neutralizes the very best pass rushers with no help, and gets to the second level and makes downfield blocks in the run game.

He’s not the play wrecker type yet. He’s not the guy you say “just follow him.” Maybe that comes, especially if he can get his health.
He's a building block.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/14/2022 8:15 pm : link
however another "Thomas" drafted by Cleveland and did pretty good with nothing to help him.

He was picked 4th overall. He shouldl be great.
He’s good  
MyNameIsMyName : 1/14/2022 8:17 pm : link
Not great
I know we're big on initials here, but  
Bill in UT : 1/14/2022 8:19 pm : link
who is "OK" and what team is he on?
Andrew Thomas Had A Rough Start  
Trainmaster : 1/14/2022 8:27 pm : link
Started his first NFL game in 2020 at the critical Left Tackle position, without, if I'm recalling correctly, any rookie camp, mini camp or pre-season game experience. Head Coach and offensive line coach apparently not on the same page at the same time (O Line Coach let go mid season). College technique apparently being "untaught" etc. Poor help at Left Guard etc.

With the benefit of a year of "trial by fire" in 2020, started the 2021 season with a mini camp and preseason games (don't recall if / how much he played). Revolving door at left guard next to him. Head coach and offensive coordinator not on the same page (O coordinator let go mid season).

Battling through all of the above to demonstrate (at least to me) he's among the top young left tackles in the league.

His injuries are the only concern  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/14/2022 8:30 pm : link
a legitimate concern, but the only concern. He’s a stud.
Id say he’s  
cokeduplt : 1/14/2022 8:34 pm : link
Very good potential to be great.
_________  
I am Ninja : 1/14/2022 8:36 pm : link
I feel like hes universally regarded as quite a bit better than ok.
Thomas had a very solid year...  
bw in dc : 1/14/2022 8:41 pm : link
for sure. Now he has to string together consecutive seasons like this and more improvement.

With such a high investment, Thomas needs to be vying for Pro Bowl status and All Pro honors.
He played next to  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/14/2022 8:46 pm : link
Matt Skura, Billy Price, Will Hernandez and Nate Solder. With Daniel Jones/Mike Glennon/jake Fromm and Jason Garrett and Freddie Kitchens calling plays. We’re rightfully a beaten down fan base but AT is a future pro bowl/all pro shoe in if his ankle can stay healthy. Losing the “chase young game” was a blessing in disguise (minus not drafting Herbert).
Too early to tell  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/14/2022 8:46 pm : link
But the arrow is clearly pointing up with him after a rough rookie year. To play like he did despite being as banged up as he was showed a lot of potential.

If he builds on this year and stays healthy, he’ll be a lot more than OK.
“He should be  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/14/2022 8:58 pm : link
traded”…. Small contingent of BBI
If your talking  
BigBlueJ : 1/14/2022 8:58 pm : link
about the thread with Go Terps. Please take what he says with a grain of salt. He simps for Wirfs, he is a loyal man. I respect that.

I love AT, he will be a great LT.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2022 9:01 pm : link
Trade him
RE: …  
cokeduplt : 1/14/2022 9:03 pm : link
In comment 15553577 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Trade him


We finally have a franchise LT and you want to trade him?
RE: RE: …  
BigBlueJ : 1/14/2022 9:05 pm : link
In comment 15553578 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 15553577 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Trade him



We finally have a franchise LT and you want to trade him?



Sarcasm
He's better than ok  
JonC : 1/14/2022 9:44 pm : link
Has to fix his leg so he can stay on the field and bring his run blocking up a few levels.
all he was lacking, this past year  
thrunthrublue : 1/14/2022 9:53 pm : link
was, for support..... a left guard, center, right guard and right tackle (all better than horrible backups) along with blocking tight end support and a viable, modern offensive game plan beyond qb sneaks which turns out it the best play JJ ever called. in any giants offensive play, the only diamond in the pile was Thomas.....lets hope he stays healthy and gets some help.
Yes, definitely IMO  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/14/2022 10:27 pm : link
...the only issue is his ankle/foot and if that lingers.

But he's one of those guys that plays well even when hurt. The Giants can use more of that (...ahem Golladay)
Best Offensive lineman period  
uconngiant : 1/14/2022 11:30 pm : link
He is not the issue but the other four spots are
The problem with Thomas pick was  
give66 : 1/14/2022 11:49 pm : link
You had four o linemen of close to equal value and none of them were being picked until the 8-10 slot. Two quarterbacks were going after our pick at four. You have to trade down and extract that extra draft capital. DG left at least a 3rd rounder on the table and most likely a lot more. Our GM and/or management lacked the talent to see this and execute.
That's  
Toth029 : 1/15/2022 12:13 am : link
Not correct.

Thomas was the pure LT of the draft to most. Wills played RT in college. Becton I suppose was but had health problems. Wirfs was a projected RG or stick at RT. Austin Jackson went later but he's stunk.
he’s our LT for 10 seasons or more. that’s the beginning of rebuilding  
plato : 1/15/2022 2:07 am : link
a franchise. Add two guards and a starting center and were on our way. RT gives a dom8nating line. Don’t need all high draft choices but we better get one or two on IOL.

If any of our wrs can be better than journeyman DJ will rise to a first rate f not franchise qb.

that’s what Andrew’s does for the offense.
maybe  
floridafan : 1/15/2022 6:38 am : link
Ask Louis Reddick as he was so quick to say the Giants picked the worst of the bunch.
far cry from  
The Jake : 1/15/2022 6:52 am : link
“reliable cog” to 1st team all pro.

and you know that’s what the debate was about, too, because you were in it.

these disingenuous “stake your claim! with me or against me!” threads are lame.

there’s a TON of nuance in between 1st team all pro and good/potentially great player.
He should have been a pro bowler  
UGADawgs7 : 1/15/2022 8:10 am : link
And the only reason that he wasn’t was his injuries in my opinion.
Yes let's us continue to argue  
BigBlueJ : 1/15/2022 8:19 am : link
over the only good player on the offense. This board is a hoot.
RE: He should have been a pro bowler  
Jimmy Googs : 1/15/2022 8:26 am : link
In comment 15553708 UGADawgs7 said:
Quote:
And the only reason that he wasn’t was his injuries in my opinion.


I think that's right. Thomas is better than okay. On the simple scale of:

*Great
*Good - Thomas fits in right here
*Avg/Ok
*Below Avg
*Bad

Just need the injuries to subside a bit and be more available and the accolades will follow.
He's good  
AcesUp : 1/15/2022 10:05 am : link
10-year LT if the foot holds. Still some upside and probably wasn't done any favors from his linemates.
we've been talking all season  
UConn4523 : 1/15/2022 10:07 am : link
about how 4 of 5 spots on the line are up for grabs. I have to just laugh at anyone who can say this line stinks, we need 4 new starters, but that it also shouldn't have any effect at all on how Thomas looks/performs week to week, and has no impact on accolades.
RE: Of course he's better than OK.  
JohnG in Albany : 1/15/2022 10:12 am : link
In comment 15553521 j_rud said:
Quote:
I hope he's a building block. I called him the lone offensive building block on the tram in a thread yesterday, but we don't know what the ceiling is either. This year was a step forward for sure but just like McKinney he's gotta do it again before you can really count on him.

So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.



+1.

Injuries scare me a little as well.

constructive criticism  
mittenedman : 1/15/2022 10:23 am : link
His pass blocking improved in year 2 but his run blocking regressed, IMO. That said, I was surprised how little they attempted to run around left end.

This was my major reason for wanting Judge gone: we didn't feature the little bit of talent we DID have.
Better Than Ok  
Samiam : 1/15/2022 10:26 am : link
Especially his pass blocking and taking into account that the guy next to him has been weak. But, nothing to write home about except that he’s still very young and appears to have a great attitude. I think his potential could make him elite especially if they fix some of the holes on the line. His injuries are disturbing.
 
christian : 1/15/2022 10:53 am : link
One small factor to also consider, with weaknesses all over the line, Thomas isn’t the area a defense is going to attack.

Don’t be surprised if the talent level rises around him, some of his numbers taper off.

I’ve read a bunch of observations from Sale on Thomas. His point of view is Thomas is reliable and consistent. That’s a fabulous place to be, but it’s not the top level yet.
he did his job well and his job is one of the most important other  
Eric on Li : 1/15/2022 11:06 am : link
than quarterback so it would seem obvious to appreciate having him and progress he made from the midpoint of his rookie year through the end of this one. he appears to have a better shot at being the blue goose LT we haven't seen in blue in decades. it's literally mind-boggling that some have suggested trading him but also not surprising.

For those like me who haven't watched every snap of every other OL here are some numbers from the good folks at PFF who do. Included the last 3 years of first round OTs ranked by how they graded against the 85 OTs who played enough snaps to qualify.

#6 - Wirfs ('20 OT4) - 85.0 grade - 3 penalties, 2 sacks
#11 - Slater ('21 OT2) - 83.7 grade - 6 penalties, 4 sacks
#19 - Thomas ('20 OT1) - 78.4 grade - 5 penalties, 2 sacks
#21 - Williams ('19 OT1) - 77.9 grade - 4 penalties, 8 sacks
#25 - Sewell ('21 OT1) - 77.4 grade - 11 penalties, 5 sacks
#55 - Wills ('20 OT2) - 65.9 grade - 4 penalties, 5 sacks
#64 - McGary ('19 OT4) - 62.4 grade - 3 penalties, 9 sacks

Not ranked - Tytus Howard (19 OT3, 51.9 grade), Austin Jackson ('20 OT5, 49.9 grade), and Alex Leatherwood ('21 OT3, 44.9 grade) moved to guard. Dillard is a backup.

Becton missed basically the whole year (74.4 grade last year).
Darissaw didn't play enough snaps to rank but had a decent grade (71.8).
….  
ryanmkeane : 1/15/2022 11:08 am : link
At this point in his career I’m comfortable leaving him on an island all day long. And that’s great progress
He's good  
anon837 : 1/15/2022 12:26 pm : link
You don't hear his name called as much which is a great thing. An OL draft pick that actually is panning out. Top flight? All-Pro? Not quite yet. But he is trending upward and not a waste of a pick. Let's see if he continues to move forward and shows that he was worth drafting 4th.
Terps is a dick.  
Klaatu : 1/15/2022 1:26 pm : link
But he's a dick who's been right way more often than he's been wrong.

I'm reminded of composer Giacomo Puccini's opinion of conductor Arturo Toscanini: "The man is a pig," said Puccini. "When I think of how he conducts my operas I forgive him all his sins. But he's a pig nonetheless."
oops. wrong thread.  
Klaatu : 1/15/2022 1:30 pm : link
.....
RE: far cry from  
GiantGrit : 1/15/2022 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15553687 The Jake said:
Quote:
“reliable cog” to 1st team all pro.

and you know that’s what the debate was about, too, because you were in it.

these disingenuous “stake your claim! with me or against me!” threads are lame.

there’s a TON of nuance in between 1st team all pro and good/potentially great player.


Are you referring to the Go Terps thread? Because he specifically said Thomas is just ok.

Letting up 2 sacks on 800 snaps is better than ok. He had a pro bowl level LT season, he’s above average but needs to stay healthy and continue to improve.


here's another way to look at Thomas  
Eric on Li : 1/15/2022 1:59 pm : link
what would other alternatives cost?

Orlando Brown graded out lower allowing more sacks (4) and committing more penalties (7). And would cost a ton of money (or if we went back a year in a time a ton via trade). Likely more $ than the $68m/4 Garrett Bolles just extended for (who also had a worse year than Thomas). Whitworth graded out better and will also cost a lot of money but he's 40, so it's unlikely he'd consider a non-contender for his last few years.

Thomas' presence didn't preclude picking Sewell or Slater last year and it shouldn't stop them from taking any OL that justifies the grade in the top 10. RT is wide open.

So if the intent is to ever improve the offensive line why on earth is it at all a good idea to consider moving Thomas? To maybe a get a future pick as good as Thomas? To spend 2 or 3x as much money on someone older and at best comparable to Thomas? To create the need to find 2 tackles in the draft instead of 1?
I remember last season (2020)  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/15/2022 2:06 pm : link
People wanted to trade Thomas and picks for Orlando Brown on the Ravens. Fast forward a year later and I wouldn’t trade Andrew Thomas for Orlando Brown straight up.
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