I hope he's a building block. I called him the lone offensive building block on the tram in a thread yesterday, but we don't know what the ceiling is either. This year was a step forward for sure but just like McKinney he's gotta do it again before you can really count on him.
So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.
Sale described Thomas very well, as a highly dependable, know what you’re going to get player. That’s a great place to be as a 2nd year starter playing on a terrible line.
The metrics are good — he doesn’t give up many pressures and he’s got a good running blocking win rate. He’s a clean player, a good player.
The next step, the near All Pro level, is a guy who consistently neutralizes the very best pass rushers with no help, and gets to the second level and makes downfield blocks in the run game.
He’s not the play wrecker type yet. He’s not the guy you say “just follow him.” Maybe that comes, especially if he can get his health.
Started his first NFL game in 2020 at the critical Left Tackle position, without, if I'm recalling correctly, any rookie camp, mini camp or pre-season game experience. Head Coach and offensive line coach apparently not on the same page at the same time (O Line Coach let go mid season). College technique apparently being "untaught" etc. Poor help at Left Guard etc.
With the benefit of a year of "trial by fire" in 2020, started the 2021 season with a mini camp and preseason games (don't recall if / how much he played). Revolving door at left guard next to him. Head coach and offensive coordinator not on the same page (O coordinator let go mid season).
Battling through all of the above to demonstrate (at least to me) he's among the top young left tackles in the league.
Matt Skura, Billy Price, Will Hernandez and Nate Solder. With Daniel Jones/Mike Glennon/jake Fromm and Jason Garrett and Freddie Kitchens calling plays. We’re rightfully a beaten down fan base but AT is a future pro bowl/all pro shoe in if his ankle can stay healthy. Losing the “chase young game” was a blessing in disguise (minus not drafting Herbert).
But the arrow is clearly pointing up with him after a rough rookie year. To play like he did despite being as banged up as he was showed a lot of potential.
If he builds on this year and stays healthy, he’ll be a lot more than OK.
was, for support..... a left guard, center, right guard and right tackle (all better than horrible backups) along with blocking tight end support and a viable, modern offensive game plan beyond qb sneaks which turns out it the best play JJ ever called. in any giants offensive play, the only diamond in the pile was Thomas.....lets hope he stays healthy and gets some help.
You had four o linemen of close to equal value and none of them were being picked until the 8-10 slot. Two quarterbacks were going after our pick at four. You have to trade down and extract that extra draft capital. DG left at least a 3rd rounder on the table and most likely a lot more. Our GM and/or management lacked the talent to see this and execute.
Thomas was the pure LT of the draft to most. Wills played RT in college. Becton I suppose was but had health problems. Wirfs was a projected RG or stick at RT. Austin Jackson went later but he's stunk.
he’s our LT for 10 seasons or more. that’s the beginning of rebuilding
a franchise. Add two guards and a starting center and were on our way. RT gives a dom8nating line. Don’t need all high draft choices but we better get one or two on IOL.
If any of our wrs can be better than journeyman DJ will rise to a first rate f not franchise qb.
about how 4 of 5 spots on the line are up for grabs. I have to just laugh at anyone who can say this line stinks, we need 4 new starters, but that it also shouldn't have any effect at all on how Thomas looks/performs week to week, and has no impact on accolades.
I hope he's a building block. I called him the lone offensive building block on the tram in a thread yesterday, but we don't know what the ceiling is either. This year was a step forward for sure but just like McKinney he's gotta do it again before you can really count on him.
So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.
Especially his pass blocking and taking into account that the guy next to him has been weak. But, nothing to write home about except that he’s still very young and appears to have a great attitude. I think his potential could make him elite especially if they fix some of the holes on the line. His injuries are disturbing.
One small factor to also consider, with weaknesses all over the line, Thomas isn’t the area a defense is going to attack.
Don’t be surprised if the talent level rises around him, some of his numbers taper off.
I’ve read a bunch of observations from Sale on Thomas. His point of view is Thomas is reliable and consistent. That’s a fabulous place to be, but it’s not the top level yet.
he did his job well and his job is one of the most important other
than quarterback so it would seem obvious to appreciate having him and progress he made from the midpoint of his rookie year through the end of this one. he appears to have a better shot at being the blue goose LT we haven't seen in blue in decades. it's literally mind-boggling that some have suggested trading him but also not surprising.
For those like me who haven't watched every snap of every other OL here are some numbers from the good folks at PFF who do. Included the last 3 years of first round OTs ranked by how they graded against the 85 OTs who played enough snaps to qualify.
Not ranked - Tytus Howard (19 OT3, 51.9 grade), Austin Jackson ('20 OT5, 49.9 grade), and Alex Leatherwood ('21 OT3, 44.9 grade) moved to guard. Dillard is a backup.
Becton missed basically the whole year (74.4 grade last year).
Darissaw didn't play enough snaps to rank but had a decent grade (71.8).
You don't hear his name called as much which is a great thing. An OL draft pick that actually is panning out. Top flight? All-Pro? Not quite yet. But he is trending upward and not a waste of a pick. Let's see if he continues to move forward and shows that he was worth drafting 4th.
But he's a dick who's been right way more often than he's been wrong.
I'm reminded of composer Giacomo Puccini's opinion of conductor Arturo Toscanini: "The man is a pig," said Puccini. "When I think of how he conducts my operas I forgive him all his sins. But he's a pig nonetheless."
and you know that’s what the debate was about, too, because you were in it.
these disingenuous “stake your claim! with me or against me!” threads are lame.
there’s a TON of nuance in between 1st team all pro and good/potentially great player.
Are you referring to the Go Terps thread? Because he specifically said Thomas is just ok.
Letting up 2 sacks on 800 snaps is better than ok. He had a pro bowl level LT season, he’s above average but needs to stay healthy and continue to improve.
Orlando Brown graded out lower allowing more sacks (4) and committing more penalties (7). And would cost a ton of money (or if we went back a year in a time a ton via trade). Likely more $ than the $68m/4 Garrett Bolles just extended for (who also had a worse year than Thomas). Whitworth graded out better and will also cost a lot of money but he's 40, so it's unlikely he'd consider a non-contender for his last few years.
Thomas' presence didn't preclude picking Sewell or Slater last year and it shouldn't stop them from taking any OL that justifies the grade in the top 10. RT is wide open.
So if the intent is to ever improve the offensive line why on earth is it at all a good idea to consider moving Thomas? To maybe a get a future pick as good as Thomas? To spend 2 or 3x as much money on someone older and at best comparable to Thomas? To create the need to find 2 tackles in the draft instead of 1?
People wanted to trade Thomas and picks for Orlando Brown on the Ravens. Fast forward a year later and I wouldn’t trade Andrew Thomas for Orlando Brown straight up.
We are talking top 2-3 OT's in the game
So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.
The metrics are good — he doesn’t give up many pressures and he’s got a good running blocking win rate. He’s a clean player, a good player.
The next step, the near All Pro level, is a guy who consistently neutralizes the very best pass rushers with no help, and gets to the second level and makes downfield blocks in the run game.
He’s not the play wrecker type yet. He’s not the guy you say “just follow him.” Maybe that comes, especially if he can get his health.
He was picked 4th overall. He shouldl be great.
With the benefit of a year of "trial by fire" in 2020, started the 2021 season with a mini camp and preseason games (don't recall if / how much he played). Revolving door at left guard next to him. Head coach and offensive coordinator not on the same page (O coordinator let go mid season).
Battling through all of the above to demonstrate (at least to me) he's among the top young left tackles in the league.
With such a high investment, Thomas needs to be vying for Pro Bowl status and All Pro honors.
If he builds on this year and stays healthy, he’ll be a lot more than OK.
I love AT, he will be a great LT.
We finally have a franchise LT and you want to trade him?
Quote:
Trade him
We finally have a franchise LT and you want to trade him?
Sarcasm
But he's one of those guys that plays well even when hurt. The Giants can use more of that (...ahem Golladay)
Thomas was the pure LT of the draft to most. Wills played RT in college. Becton I suppose was but had health problems. Wirfs was a projected RG or stick at RT. Austin Jackson went later but he's stunk.
If any of our wrs can be better than journeyman DJ will rise to a first rate f not franchise qb.
that’s what Andrew’s does for the offense.
and you know that’s what the debate was about, too, because you were in it.
these disingenuous “stake your claim! with me or against me!” threads are lame.
there’s a TON of nuance in between 1st team all pro and good/potentially great player.
I think that's right. Thomas is better than okay. On the simple scale of:
*Great
*Good - Thomas fits in right here
*Avg/Ok
*Below Avg
*Bad
Just need the injuries to subside a bit and be more available and the accolades will follow.
So essentially yes, better than OK. But the jury is still out.
+1.
Injuries scare me a little as well.
This was my major reason for wanting Judge gone: we didn't feature the little bit of talent we DID have.
Don’t be surprised if the talent level rises around him, some of his numbers taper off.
I’ve read a bunch of observations from Sale on Thomas. His point of view is Thomas is reliable and consistent. That’s a fabulous place to be, but it’s not the top level yet.
For those like me who haven't watched every snap of every other OL here are some numbers from the good folks at PFF who do. Included the last 3 years of first round OTs ranked by how they graded against the 85 OTs who played enough snaps to qualify.
#6 - Wirfs ('20 OT4) - 85.0 grade - 3 penalties, 2 sacks
#11 - Slater ('21 OT2) - 83.7 grade - 6 penalties, 4 sacks
#19 - Thomas ('20 OT1) - 78.4 grade - 5 penalties, 2 sacks
#21 - Williams ('19 OT1) - 77.9 grade - 4 penalties, 8 sacks
#25 - Sewell ('21 OT1) - 77.4 grade - 11 penalties, 5 sacks
#55 - Wills ('20 OT2) - 65.9 grade - 4 penalties, 5 sacks
#64 - McGary ('19 OT4) - 62.4 grade - 3 penalties, 9 sacks
Not ranked - Tytus Howard (19 OT3, 51.9 grade), Austin Jackson ('20 OT5, 49.9 grade), and Alex Leatherwood ('21 OT3, 44.9 grade) moved to guard. Dillard is a backup.
Becton missed basically the whole year (74.4 grade last year).
Darissaw didn't play enough snaps to rank but had a decent grade (71.8).
I'm reminded of composer Giacomo Puccini's opinion of conductor Arturo Toscanini: "The man is a pig," said Puccini. "When I think of how he conducts my operas I forgive him all his sins. But he's a pig nonetheless."
and you know that’s what the debate was about, too, because you were in it.
these disingenuous “stake your claim! with me or against me!” threads are lame.
there’s a TON of nuance in between 1st team all pro and good/potentially great player.
Are you referring to the Go Terps thread? Because he specifically said Thomas is just ok.
Letting up 2 sacks on 800 snaps is better than ok. He had a pro bowl level LT season, he’s above average but needs to stay healthy and continue to improve.
Orlando Brown graded out lower allowing more sacks (4) and committing more penalties (7). And would cost a ton of money (or if we went back a year in a time a ton via trade). Likely more $ than the $68m/4 Garrett Bolles just extended for (who also had a worse year than Thomas). Whitworth graded out better and will also cost a lot of money but he's 40, so it's unlikely he'd consider a non-contender for his last few years.
Thomas' presence didn't preclude picking Sewell or Slater last year and it shouldn't stop them from taking any OL that justifies the grade in the top 10. RT is wide open.
So if the intent is to ever improve the offensive line why on earth is it at all a good idea to consider moving Thomas? To maybe a get a future pick as good as Thomas? To spend 2 or 3x as much money on someone older and at best comparable to Thomas? To create the need to find 2 tackles in the draft instead of 1?