Lawrence has been a disappointment, he isn't certain to get a 12nd contract. Ojulari had a nice rookie year, but I wouldn't call him untouchable. The first 3 guys are keepers
Untouchable is not the right word, but I would include
Is anything new being said? Of course not! But it isn't about that, just the opposite, it's about seeing how many times we can say the same thing over and over and over again. Somebody should add them all up and send it to Guinness, there's definitely a world record in it for BBI! "It must be over a hundred courics" - ( New Window )
Some guys arent movable bc of where they are in their contracts, or still on affordable rookie deals.
But considering talent alone, nobody is untouchable if someone wants to offer us the farm in a trade
I think the world of Leonard Williams for playing hard all the way through the season despite a lingering elbow injury, after he already got his big payday. But that doesn’t mean he’s untouchable, if someone offered us a 1st round pick for him, wouldn’t think twice
Thomas and McKinney are the only ones worth considering that way, but even they aren’t there yet. The roster is painfully devoid of elite talent right now
Is anything new being said? Of course not! But it isn't about that, just the opposite, it's about seeing how many times we can say the same thing over and over and over again. Somebody should add them all up and send it to Guinness, there's definitely a world record in it for BBI! "It must be over a hundred courics" - ( New Window )
Why are you so mad? The team sucks and discussing who should be kept and who shouldn’t is actually a legitimate discussion.
When you consider contract status and cap implications, the list gets a lot longer.
Review the roster, remove everyone with an expiring contract, then look at the production, cap and dead money of players with contracts expiring next year and look at the “cheap to keep” Jags and +Jags. There are only a few guys who are certain “goners” who are under contract for 2022.
that designation because good Left Tackles are a rarity.
And when a team like the Giants, who have such a arduous time finding quality O-linemen, actually find one you hold onto them...
Agreed. I've said nobody to this question in the past.
But Thomas is trending in the right direction sure. And finding quality OLs at ANY position is really a challenge around most of the league. So it's become, IMV, the second hardest position to solve for behind QB.
more back end of the roster players who should be retained to see what we have: Cam Brown, Ellerson Smith, Darnay Holmes, Dante Pettis, Carter Coughlin, and Kyle Murphy. Anyone else with a expired contract should just walk unless they resign at vet minimum salary.
Sure, I'd keep the guys you mentioned, too. We don't know enough about Ojulari, Toney, and McKinney to give up on them yet. But they're not untouchable.
Williams - Love the guy, but high contract just blew out his knee, no? That changes his status.
Martinez - Also coming off ACL.
Lawrence is a JAG - good -- not great, run stuffing DT. You can get one of those guys in every draft -- and NOT in the 1st round. Hasn't lived up to the the 17th pick.
There’s numerous reasons why but a bad roster is one of them. I’d hold on to Thomas hoping he’s a cornerstone player and would be hard to replace but that’s basically it.
Sure, I'd keep the guys you mentioned, too. We don't know enough about Ojulari, Toney, and McKinney to give up on them yet. But they're not untouchable.
Williams - Love the guy, but high contract just blew out his knee, no? That changes his status.
Martinez - Also coming off ACL.
Lawrence is a JAG - good -- not great, run stuffing DT. You can get one of those guys in every draft -- and NOT in the 1st round. Hasn't lived up to the the 17th pick.
Williams? I thought he was playing with a bad elbow, not knee.
Yes Jones. You don’t trade your QB unless you have another one.
I don't think we have one. If someone wants Jones, I'm listening.
That's the thing. I'll admit I've soured on Jones, but it's hard to get a good bead on whether or not another team will trade for him if his neck injury is bad enough thanks to conflicting reports. 5th year option is out for me though.
there's no one that could not be dealt if someone backs up the money wagon.
There's keepers, and there's those you can live with for now, and there's they gotta go.
Unlike a lot of BBIers, I don't think you blow up the team. It creates more holes. Realistically, there's only so many good players you can acquire in a short period of time. Use the natural attrition (20-30% on average?) to replace the 'they gotta go' guys. Weed out the overpriced players whose dumping adds a lot of money to the cap.
If someone wants to trade and gives a reasonable offer, most of the roster can be up for grabs. But I wouldn't give up any of the 'can live with' players at a bargain price. I'd rather an iffy starter than a 4th or below. I'd rather have an ok-decent starter than a 3rd.
Gettleman got rid of players just to get rid of them, and then brought in garbage that needed to be gotten rid of.
I would keep Jones. He is as good as the other wannabe starters that would be brought in. It is possible (maybe not likely, but possible) that he does well in a new system. Plus, his prorated signing bonus pretty much cancels out any guaranteed salary you save by trading. Full cap hit is dead money if you cut him. At least keep him for backup. That changes if someone offers a good deal (1st or 2nd), but that probably isn't happening.
but the only surefire cornerstones are AT and McKinney. It would take a very good offer to pry Ojulari away, but other than that, everyone is expendable.
I doubt the OP meant those are players are literally untouchable. More of an expression saying, if you want one of these players you'll have to pay through the nose.
Yes Jones. You don’t trade your QB unless you have another one.
I don't think we have one. If someone wants Jones, I'm listening.
That's the thing. I'll admit I've soured on Jones, but it's hard to get a good bead on whether or not another team will trade for him if his neck injury is bad enough thanks to conflicting reports. 5th year option is out for me though.
Other teams would discuss his medicals during talks, and of course have a physical if they traded for him
Just because -we- don't know all the details about his injury doesn't mean the other GMs wouldn't when making offers
How many players on this roster would return a 1st round pick?
Probably 1 IMO, Thomas.
To think about the word "untouchable" ask yourself, how much would Cincy/LAC/KC need to pull the trigger on trying their QBs? Would Cincy trade Burrow for 50 1st round picks?.. maybe...10...Probably not
How many players on this roster would return a 1st round pick?
Probably 1 IMO, Thomas.
To think about the word "untouchable" ask yourself, how much would Cincy/LAC/KC need to pull the trigger on trying their QBs? Would Cincy trade Burrow for 50 1st round picks?.. maybe...10...Probably not
Precisely..
Cincy wouldn't trade Burrow for anything. They've been waiting 50 years for a QB like him. That's an untouchable player. The Giants don't have a player like that.
One of the many, many mistakes Gettleman made was to get rid of all of our good/decent players. It's real tough to reassemble a roster from zero. Especially for someone as dumb as Gettleman.
I wouldn't be trying to trade most of our young players. I'm fine with trading some guys, but I wouldn't go fire sale. Even the vets - you need some guys who can play even just to evaluate your young players.
No one. C'mon, be honest. We have a couple guys who might be foundation pieces but will probably be at or near the end of their rookie deals by the time it's a competitive team again (if they get it right this time). And none of those guys (Thomas, Ojulari, McKinney) have out together back to back + seasons. That's not untouchable. And don't even talk about veterans. There's not a single veteran on this roster that I wouldn't trade for a 3rd rounder.
Toney and Ojulari get grandfathered because
Of their draft status
Literally everyone else is up a toss up
You could go games at a time and not even realize he's playing. He's not a bad player but he's the definition of average.
D- Martinez, Oj, LW, most of the secondary.
"It must be over a hundred courics" - ( New Window )
Exactly
Some guys arent movable bc of where they are in their contracts, or still on affordable rookie deals.
But considering talent alone, nobody is untouchable if someone wants to offer us the farm in a trade
I think the world of Leonard Williams for playing hard all the way through the season despite a lingering elbow injury, after he already got his big payday. But that doesn’t mean he’s untouchable, if someone offered us a 1st round pick for him, wouldn’t think twice
Thomas and McKinney are the only ones worth considering that way, but even they aren’t there yet. The roster is painfully devoid of elite talent right now
Roche also flashed. He and AO can be bookend a Edge’s with the right coaching.
That’s it, really.
I’d put a for sale sign in every other locker in the locker room.
And when a team like the Giants, who have such a arduous time finding quality O-linemen, actually find one you hold onto them...
Why would you trade Andrew Thomas?
He's the only player on the roster that I wouldn't listen to offers for.
However, I'd keep Ojulari, Roche, Love, Gano, Toney (why not?) as well.
Probably stuck with Lawrence (who is a good player- just paid too much IMO), Golladay and Bradbury due to contract restructuring by Gettleman.
Why are you so mad? The team sucks and discussing who should be kept and who shouldn’t is actually a legitimate discussion.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about Sills
Review the roster, remove everyone with an expiring contract, then look at the production, cap and dead money of players with contracts expiring next year and look at the “cheap to keep” Jags and +Jags. There are only a few guys who are certain “goners” who are under contract for 2022.
And when a team like the Giants, who have such a arduous time finding quality O-linemen, actually find one you hold onto them...
Agreed. I've said nobody to this question in the past.
But Thomas is trending in the right direction sure. And finding quality OLs at ANY position is really a challenge around most of the league. So it's become, IMV, the second hardest position to solve for behind QB.
Sure, I'd keep the guys you mentioned, too. We don't know enough about Ojulari, Toney, and McKinney to give up on them yet. But they're not untouchable.
Williams - Love the guy, but high contract just blew out his knee, no? That changes his status.
Martinez - Also coming off ACL.
Lawrence is a JAG - good -- not great, run stuffing DT. You can get one of those guys in every draft -- and NOT in the 1st round. Hasn't lived up to the the 17th pick.
I might agree if he was average, but he's not.
And if the Giants bring in some credible competition (free agent or draft), he probably is heading to the bench...
Sure, I'd keep the guys you mentioned, too. We don't know enough about Ojulari, Toney, and McKinney to give up on them yet. But they're not untouchable.
Williams - Love the guy, but high contract just blew out his knee, no? That changes his status.
Martinez - Also coming off ACL.
Lawrence is a JAG - good -- not great, run stuffing DT. You can get one of those guys in every draft -- and NOT in the 1st round. Hasn't lived up to the the 17th pick.
Williams? I thought he was playing with a bad elbow, not knee.
I don't think we have one. If someone wants Jones, I'm listening.
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Yes Jones. You don’t trade your QB unless you have another one.
I don't think we have one. If someone wants Jones, I'm listening.
That's the thing. I'll admit I've soured on Jones, but it's hard to get a good bead on whether or not another team will trade for him if his neck injury is bad enough thanks to conflicting reports. 5th year option is out for me though.
Average is as level Jones has never reached. Jones sucks, and should not play for the Giants ever again. Hopefully he's doesn't.
There's keepers, and there's those you can live with for now, and there's they gotta go.
Unlike a lot of BBIers, I don't think you blow up the team. It creates more holes. Realistically, there's only so many good players you can acquire in a short period of time. Use the natural attrition (20-30% on average?) to replace the 'they gotta go' guys. Weed out the overpriced players whose dumping adds a lot of money to the cap.
If someone wants to trade and gives a reasonable offer, most of the roster can be up for grabs. But I wouldn't give up any of the 'can live with' players at a bargain price. I'd rather an iffy starter than a 4th or below. I'd rather have an ok-decent starter than a 3rd.
Gettleman got rid of players just to get rid of them, and then brought in garbage that needed to be gotten rid of.
I would keep Jones. He is as good as the other wannabe starters that would be brought in. It is possible (maybe not likely, but possible) that he does well in a new system. Plus, his prorated signing bonus pretty much cancels out any guaranteed salary you save by trading. Full cap hit is dead money if you cut him. At least keep him for backup. That changes if someone offers a good deal (1st or 2nd), but that probably isn't happening.
If we were offered what the Dolphins got for Tunsil, I think we would all take it in an instant.
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In comment 15553764 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Yes Jones. You don’t trade your QB unless you have another one.
I don't think we have one. If someone wants Jones, I'm listening.
That's the thing. I'll admit I've soured on Jones, but it's hard to get a good bead on whether or not another team will trade for him if his neck injury is bad enough thanks to conflicting reports. 5th year option is out for me though.
Other teams would discuss his medicals during talks, and of course have a physical if they traded for him
Just because -we- don't know all the details about his injury doesn't mean the other GMs wouldn't when making offers
Probably 1 IMO, Thomas.
To think about the word "untouchable" ask yourself, how much would Cincy/LAC/KC need to pull the trigger on trying their QBs? Would Cincy trade Burrow for 50 1st round picks?.. maybe...10...Probably not
Probably 1 IMO, Thomas.
To think about the word "untouchable" ask yourself, how much would Cincy/LAC/KC need to pull the trigger on trying their QBs? Would Cincy trade Burrow for 50 1st round picks?.. maybe...10...Probably not
Precisely..
Cincy wouldn't trade Burrow for anything. They've been waiting 50 years for a QB like him. That's an untouchable player. The Giants don't have a player like that.
And really, would you absolutely not consider trading them?
If someone came calling with the #1 overall pick for McKinney, are you really turning that offer down?
If you got the sort of offer that the Dolphins got for Tunsil, are you refusing to trade Thomas?
This is a bad team right now. Even the best players should not be untouchable yet.
I wouldn't be trying to trade most of our young players. I'm fine with trading some guys, but I wouldn't go fire sale. Even the vets - you need some guys who can play even just to evaluate your young players.