People bitched about Wash taking Scherff at #5. He's been a 5x Pro Bowler and a mainstay on the IOL. If he is a player who can secure the position then draft him
Linderbaum would be giving 60-70:pounds to multiple linemen he will be playing opposite. I read he has a wrestling background which theoretically should help. But, he’ll be going every week against linemen way bigger than him. Does that not mean anything?
I think it would be a mistake to reach for position when we’re in a total rebuild. We’re not good enough to fill holes.
Just take the two best players on the board (or make a trade if its available).
If someone offered us a generous deal for our number 7 to trade down and get more picks I think that would be a good idea because I'm doubting the Giants have one player in particular they're madly in love with.
People bitched about Wash taking Scherff at #5. He's been a 5x Pro Bowler and a mainstay on the IOL. If he is a player who can secure the position then draft him
Probably dependent on whatever blocking scheme the new coaches want to run. It we’re going to be running a zone scheme you could probably justify him inside the top 10. Center is more valuable in that scheme and he’s the perfect fit for it.
Center might be undervalued in the NFL, but it is the key position on the line and second in importance only to left tackle. If you can secure a guy who will be a mainstay there plus a right tackle then you've immediately solved most of your problems.
LT- Thomas
LG-
C- Linderbaum
RG-
RT- Neal
That's a hell of a starting formula for a successful offensive line.
Of blocking schemes our new HC wants to run. I think Skinner was saying if you’re going to be running some zone blocking schemes then Linderbaum makes a lot of sense.
Seriously though, I heard a podcast with Tony Pauline and he did not have either in the top ten. He thought Linderbaum was a second half of 1st round guy and gave a few examples where he did poorly against good competition
He also thought Neal was a bit below the four OTs in 2020, but would be overdrafted. To be fair, he said it was early in the process.
And tell you who we should have taken and why xxxx yyyyyyyyy is a moron for passing on him and taking Chris maras pick to curry favor. XY you imgrate!!!!
RE: People saying screw positional value for a center
they go 2 Offensive Line with the top 10's. Let's say Hortiz gets the job. I don't imagine the Ravens double dipping an OL in the top 10. They'd draft into the strength of this top 10 and take a badass ER. I also think Ekwonu is a "Ravens" type OL. (He reminds me of Osemele.)
Ekwonu and Ojabo (for example) could be an excellent haul that greatly improves both sides of the ball, and would be more realistic IMO.
they go 2 Offensive Line with the top 10's. Let's say Hortiz gets the job. I don't imagine the Ravens double dipping an OL in the top 10. They'd draft into the strength of this top 10 and take a badass ER. I also think Ekwonu is a "Ravens" type OL. (He reminds me of Osemele.)
Ekwonu and Ojabo (for example) could be an excellent haul that greatly improves both sides of the ball, and would be more realistic IMO.
Did a mock draft today where that very thing happened; got the chance to take Hutchinson, traded out of the other draft spot, Ravens drafted Ekwonu. Eventually wound up with a 19-man draft, enough to overhaul a good portion of the roster (my ambition is to convert to the 4-3).
Even though I badly want to revamp the OL. Just doesn’t seem like good value at 7. Comes off as a reach for need rather than BPA. I hope they trade down from 7 if they want to reach a bit.
I posted this on another thread, but there's no need to overdraft for RT/C/G. LT is the only OL position that warrants a Top 10 or even 1st round pick. The league is full of good starting o-linemen drafted on Day 2 and 3. The Bills o-line has no 1st rounders, and the Chiefs just drafted two excellent o-linemen in Rounds 2 and 6 (C. Humphrey and T. Smith).
There's just no reason to spend a top 10 pick or the cap space on a non-LT o-lineman. You can always develop an offensive lineman. Save the picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down for more picks and use those picks for o-line, since we need four new starters.
EVERY position on the OL is a premium position in today's NFL.
The first game I watched Linderbaum this year was against Prudue. He had a bad game as he was bull rushed several times. So because of all the hype on Linderbaum I decided to watch as many Iowa games as I could in 2021.
Here's my take:
Because of his wrestling background he has the ability to sit down on rushes and anchor in the middle.He may be wide zone scheme exclusive but I think due to his lower body strength he can adapt to a pass heavy scheme.
He's not the biggest center but he plays with tenacity and his leverage is excellent.He has good footwork and hand technique in the passing game.He gets to the second level in the run game.
I really really like Linderbaum. When all the draft analysis by the experts are completed this kid could be a top 10 prospect. So would I draft him at 7 and be happy for the next 10 years? YES
RE: Linderbaum quick answer yea I would take him at number 7
The first game I watched Linderbaum this year was against Prudue. He had a bad game as he was bull rushed several times. So because of all the hype on Linderbaum I decided to watch as many Iowa games as I could in 2021.
Here's my take:
Because of his wrestling background he has the ability to sit down on rushes and anchor in the middle.He may be wide zone scheme exclusive but I think due to his lower body strength he can adapt to a pass heavy scheme.
He's not the biggest center but he plays with tenacity and his leverage is excellent.He has good footwork and hand technique in the passing game.He gets to the second level in the run game.
I really really like Linderbaum. When all the draft analysis by the experts are completed this kid could be a top 10 prospect. So would I draft him at 7 and be happy for the next 10 years? YES
+1 I do worry about his size as he added a ton of weight in college. So he isn’t naturally a big body but he’s incredibly skilled and athletic. Kevin Mawae type center.
I love Cade Mays later in the draft and I’m slowly having a man crush on Darian Kinnard. I think he can be a beast inside. Played right tackle at Kentucky but he projects as a left guard. Would be an awesome get round 2 and if he’s there I’d pounce on that
Suggesting that positional value is a myth drawn up by posters that didn’t like Barkley and/or Gettleman is nonsense.
And suggesting that ALL offensive line positions are PREMIUM positions is simply not borne out by the facts.
Below is a list of the past 25 NFL Drafts showing when the first center was taken in each draft. Please note that while the list does not account for a guard or tackle being moved to center, the list does accurately reflect the value NFL teams place on the center position.
Top Centers Drafted in the Last 25 Years
2021-RD-2-62-Myers-Packers
2020-RD-1-24-Ruiz-Saints
2019-RD-1-18-Bradburry-Vikings
2018-RD-1-20-Ragnow-Lions (Note: Billy Price chosen with the 21st pick by Bengals)
2017-RD-2-58-Posic-Seahawks
2016-RD-1-18-Kelly-Colts
2015-RD-1-19-Erving-Browns
2014-RD-3-70-Martin-49ers
2013-RD-1-31-Frederick-Cowboys
2012-RD-2-55-Konz-Falcons
2011-RD-2-48-Wisniewski-Raiders
2010-RD-1-18-Pouncey-Steelers
2009-RD-1-21-Mack-Browns
2008-RD-4-107-Wallace-49ers
2007-RD-2-59-Kalil-Panthers
2006-RD-1-29-Mangold-Jets
2005-RD-1-26-Spencer-Seahawks
2004-RD-2-45-Grove-Raiders
2003-RD-1-21-Faine-Browns
2002-RD-3-76-Fowler-Browns
2001-RD-2-50-Raiola-Lions
2000-RD-2-60-Meester-Jaguars
1999-RD-1-17-Woody-Patriots
1998-RD-2-58-Newberry-49ers
1997-RD-3-72-Treu-Raiders
The Results:
-The average draft position for the first center taken in NFL drafts over the last 25 years is 2-43. (That’s 11 picks into the second round.)
-The highest a center has ever been drafted is RD-1-17 (Woody-Patriots-1999).
-If you go strictly by draft slot, center is the least valued position, as it is the ONLY starting position (not counting punters and kickers) that has NOT been drafted in the top 16 slots, in the past 25 years.
I didn’t go back any further than 25 years to see if a center was ever drafted in the top 10, but if someone wants to take up where I left off, the link is below.
had trading down. That said, I don't completely subscribe to the positional value theory in this case. I think he is that good at OC, which is one of our many strong needs. I think it would be harder to fill OC with quality later in the draft or FA.
If we weren't relying on guys to come in immediately and start, OC is a position I would reserve for later. But, we need one day one and it is an undervalued position. I feel like him at OC and one of the top OTs (hopefully Cross) is already a huge upgrade to the OL. If we can do that by trading down, we have more picks in 2/3 to focus elsewhere.
and a trade down of the other pick. Dean is the defensive player needed because the Giants need a front 7 playmaker. Thibs didnt live up to the hype, Hutch and Karlaftis are overrated
Many good OL to take later in round 1. Would still sign a veteran center instead of Linderbaum
Is a C that would excel in a zone blocking scheme. But I’d bet he struggles a bit with how pass heavy the NFL is and DTs that have size and twitch to get inside.
Another thing is how much rookie OL are tending to struggle their first year or so in NFL. Patience is needed.
drawn up by posters that just didn’t like Gettleman or Barkley...
Positional value is dependant on the philosophy of the GM. With some, it weighs more heavily than others. It's mostly considered in the top 10 or when stacking.
As for Linderbaum in the top 10, that's a bit of a stretch. Good prospect but a 15-32 valuation is more realistic.
drawn up by posters that just didn’t like Gettleman or Barkley...
Positional value is dependant on the philosophy of the GM. With some, it weighs more heavily than others. It's mostly considered in the top 10 or when stacking.
As for Linderbaum in the top 10, that's a bit of a stretch. Good prospect but a 15-32 valuation is more realistic.
It needs to weighed appropriately...particularly for teams rebuilding a roster and finding a new core.
On BBI, yes. But over the years there have been a number of guards drafted in the top 10.
As I mentioned above there hasn't been a single center chosen in the top 15 of the last 50 NFL Drafts.
Not even one.
And center is the ONLY starting postion that hasn't had a top 15 pick. (Even a punter has been drafted in the top 15...Russell Erxleben @ 11 by the Saints in 1979.)
Given that, it's impossible to argue that GMs value the center position the same as they do other positions.
On BBI, yes. But over the years there have been a number of guards drafted in the top 10.
As I mentioned above there hasn't been a single center chosen in the top 15 of the last 50 NFL Drafts.
Not even one.
And center is the ONLY starting postion that hasn't had a top 15 pick. (Even a punter has been drafted in the top 15...Russell Erxleben @ 11 by the Saints in 1979.)
Given that, it's impossible to argue that GMs value the center position the same as they do other positions.
I don't think one should rule anything out- it depends on the guy and on the board
I posted this on another thread, but there's no need to overdraft for RT/C/G. LT is the only OL position that warrants a Top 10 or even 1st round pick. The league is full of good starting o-linemen drafted on Day 2 and 3. The Bills o-line has no 1st rounders, and the Chiefs just drafted two excellent o-linemen in Rounds 2 and 6 (C. Humphrey and T. Smith).
There's just no reason to spend a top 10 pick or the cap space on a non-LT o-lineman. You can always develop an offensive lineman. Save the picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down for more picks and use those picks for o-line, since we need four new starters.
This is why team suck and shows how stupid people are. This post is behind dumb. Quentin Nelson and Zac Martin aren't worth a top ten pick. Two guys who will get a good jacket. Draft the player. Thanks Josie why the Giants suck. They passed on Bobby Wagner for Wilson. Took Odell instead of both Martin and Donald. This lost can go on for ages. Genius level thinking is why Parsons wouldn't be the pick.
It's not that positional value isn't real, it's just that it isn't the be-all and end-all when putting together a draft board. It's just one of the factors when ranking a player.
Wrong on both. Dean and a trade down or Cross. And really starting to think that trading down is the way to go with the second pick because there are plenty of OL in the first 36 to choose from
I’d maybe prefer Cross and Ekwonu if they pick two OL instead of Linderbaum.
Wouldn’t be opposed but I think there are better players. I maybe just want Hamilton at 5
Just take the two best players on the board (or make a trade if its available).
But I just think O line will always be a huge need and RB as a position will never match that level of need or even importance again.
But I get what you're saying for sure....
Just take the two best players on the board (or make a trade if its available).
If someone offered us a generous deal for our number 7 to trade down and get more picks I think that would be a good idea because I'm doubting the Giants have one player in particular they're madly in love with.
I’d maybe prefer Cross and Ekwonu if they pick two OL instead of Linderbaum.
Wouldn’t be opposed but I think there are better players. I maybe just want Hamilton at 5
Did anyone think Penei Sewell would be there for the Lions last draft? You have no idea if Neal will be there or not
agreed
LT- Thomas
LG-
C- Linderbaum
RG-
RT- Neal
That's a hell of a starting formula for a successful offensive line.
He also thought Neal was a bit below the four OTs in 2020, but would be overdrafted. To be fair, he said it was early in the process.
The question is, if he is that good, why would you not.
Don’t confront people with logic. It will only make them hostile
Ekwonu and Ojabo (for example) could be an excellent haul that greatly improves both sides of the ball, and would be more realistic IMO.
Ekwonu and Ojabo (for example) could be an excellent haul that greatly improves both sides of the ball, and would be more realistic IMO.
Did a mock draft today where that very thing happened; got the chance to take Hutchinson, traded out of the other draft spot, Ravens drafted Ekwonu. Eventually wound up with a 19-man draft, enough to overhaul a good portion of the roster (my ambition is to convert to the 4-3).
There's just no reason to spend a top 10 pick or the cap space on a non-LT o-lineman. You can always develop an offensive lineman. Save the picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down for more picks and use those picks for o-line, since we need four new starters.
Now whether he is that good I don't know but zero issue taking a C that high if that is the eval.
Here's my take:
Because of his wrestling background he has the ability to sit down on rushes and anchor in the middle.He may be wide zone scheme exclusive but I think due to his lower body strength he can adapt to a pass heavy scheme.
He's not the biggest center but he plays with tenacity and his leverage is excellent.He has good footwork and hand technique in the passing game.He gets to the second level in the run game.
I really really like Linderbaum. When all the draft analysis by the experts are completed this kid could be a top 10 prospect. So would I draft him at 7 and be happy for the next 10 years? YES
Here's my take:
Because of his wrestling background he has the ability to sit down on rushes and anchor in the middle.He may be wide zone scheme exclusive but I think due to his lower body strength he can adapt to a pass heavy scheme.
He's not the biggest center but he plays with tenacity and his leverage is excellent.He has good footwork and hand technique in the passing game.He gets to the second level in the run game.
I really really like Linderbaum. When all the draft analysis by the experts are completed this kid could be a top 10 prospect. So would I draft him at 7 and be happy for the next 10 years? YES
+1 I do worry about his size as he added a ton of weight in college. So he isn’t naturally a big body but he’s incredibly skilled and athletic. Kevin Mawae type center.
I love Cade Mays later in the draft and I’m slowly having a man crush on Darian Kinnard. I think he can be a beast inside. Played right tackle at Kentucky but he projects as a left guard. Would be an awesome get round 2 and if he’s there I’d pounce on that
And suggesting that ALL offensive line positions are PREMIUM positions is simply not borne out by the facts.
Below is a list of the past 25 NFL Drafts showing when the first center was taken in each draft. Please note that while the list does not account for a guard or tackle being moved to center, the list does accurately reflect the value NFL teams place on the center position.
Top Centers Drafted in the Last 25 Years
2021-RD-2-62-Myers-Packers
2020-RD-1-24-Ruiz-Saints
2019-RD-1-18-Bradburry-Vikings
2018-RD-1-20-Ragnow-Lions (Note: Billy Price chosen with the 21st pick by Bengals)
2017-RD-2-58-Posic-Seahawks
2016-RD-1-18-Kelly-Colts
2015-RD-1-19-Erving-Browns
2014-RD-3-70-Martin-49ers
2013-RD-1-31-Frederick-Cowboys
2012-RD-2-55-Konz-Falcons
2011-RD-2-48-Wisniewski-Raiders
2010-RD-1-18-Pouncey-Steelers
2009-RD-1-21-Mack-Browns
2008-RD-4-107-Wallace-49ers
2007-RD-2-59-Kalil-Panthers
2006-RD-1-29-Mangold-Jets
2005-RD-1-26-Spencer-Seahawks
2004-RD-2-45-Grove-Raiders
2003-RD-1-21-Faine-Browns
2002-RD-3-76-Fowler-Browns
2001-RD-2-50-Raiola-Lions
2000-RD-2-60-Meester-Jaguars
1999-RD-1-17-Woody-Patriots
1998-RD-2-58-Newberry-49ers
1997-RD-3-72-Treu-Raiders
The Results:
-The average draft position for the first center taken in NFL drafts over the last 25 years is 2-43. (That’s 11 picks into the second round.)
-The highest a center has ever been drafted is RD-1-17 (Woody-Patriots-1999).
-If you go strictly by draft slot, center is the least valued position, as it is the ONLY starting position (not counting punters and kickers) that has NOT been drafted in the top 16 slots, in the past 25 years.
I didn’t go back any further than 25 years to see if a center was ever drafted in the top 10, but if someone wants to take up where I left off, the link is below.
NFL Drafts - ( New Window )
If we weren't relying on guys to come in immediately and start, OC is a position I would reserve for later. But, we need one day one and it is an undervalued position. I feel like him at OC and one of the top OTs (hopefully Cross) is already a huge upgrade to the OL. If we can do that by trading down, we have more picks in 2/3 to focus elsewhere.
I'm not going to take the time to list them all, but the highest drafted center over the past 50 years is Pete Brock at 12 (Patriots-1976).
Other notes...the Bengals drafted Blair Bush at 16 in 1978.
The Giants drafted Brian Williams at 18 in 1989.
That means NO Centers have been drafted in the top 11 slots over the past 50 years.
Does anyone still think that Linderbaum is worth the 7th overall pick?
Many good OL to take later in round 1. Would still sign a veteran center instead of Linderbaum
Now whether he is that good I don't know but zero issue taking a C that high if that is the eval.
Anchor for 10 years, you take him. Would be an outstanding pick.
The real question is how good he is......like EA, that I do not know.
Another thing is how much rookie OL are tending to struggle their first year or so in NFL. Patience is needed.
Positional value is dependant on the philosophy of the GM. With some, it weighs more heavily than others. It's mostly considered in the top 10 or when stacking.
As for Linderbaum in the top 10, that's a bit of a stretch. Good prospect but a 15-32 valuation is more realistic.
Quote:
drawn up by posters that just didn’t like Gettleman or Barkley...
Positional value is dependant on the philosophy of the GM. With some, it weighs more heavily than others. It's mostly considered in the top 10 or when stacking.
As for Linderbaum in the top 10, that's a bit of a stretch. Good prospect but a 15-32 valuation is more realistic.
It needs to weighed appropriately...particularly for teams rebuilding a roster and finding a new core.
Agree on Linderbaum, he is middle to back half...
On BBI, yes. But over the years there have been a number of guards drafted in the top 10.
As I mentioned above there hasn't been a single center chosen in the top 15 of the last 50 NFL Drafts.
Not even one.
And center is the ONLY starting postion that hasn't had a top 15 pick. (Even a punter has been drafted in the top 15...Russell Erxleben @ 11 by the Saints in 1979.)
Given that, it's impossible to argue that GMs value the center position the same as they do other positions.
I'm not going to take the time to list them all, but the highest drafted center over the past 50 years is Pete Brock at 12 (Patriots-1976).
Other notes...the Bengals drafted Blair Bush at 16 in 1978.
The Giants drafted Brian Williams at 18 in 1989.
That means NO Centers have been drafted in the top 11 slots over the past 50 years.
Does anyone still think that Linderbaum is worth the 7th overall pick?
Yup.
Quote:
that you couldn't go top 10 for a guard?
On BBI, yes. But over the years there have been a number of guards drafted in the top 10.
As I mentioned above there hasn't been a single center chosen in the top 15 of the last 50 NFL Drafts.
Not even one.
And center is the ONLY starting postion that hasn't had a top 15 pick. (Even a punter has been drafted in the top 15...Russell Erxleben @ 11 by the Saints in 1979.)
Given that, it's impossible to argue that GMs value the center position the same as they do other positions.
I don't think one should rule anything out- it depends on the guy and on the board
There's just no reason to spend a top 10 pick or the cap space on a non-LT o-lineman. You can always develop an offensive lineman. Save the picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down for more picks and use those picks for o-line, since we need four new starters.
This is why team suck and shows how stupid people are. This post is behind dumb. Quentin Nelson and Zac Martin aren't worth a top ten pick. Two guys who will get a good jacket. Draft the player. Thanks Josie why the Giants suck. They passed on Bobby Wagner for Wilson. Took Odell instead of both Martin and Donald. This lost can go on for ages. Genius level thinking is why Parsons wouldn't be the pick.
Sorry but Gates and Lemieux arent very good. Giants need 4 new starters
Wrong on both. Dean and a trade down or Cross. And really starting to think that trading down is the way to go with the second pick because there are plenty of OL in the first 36 to choose from
I could live with that but if Hamilton goes 6 after Neal, I would be fine with Dean.