for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Draft prospects hard truth

NJBlueTuna : 1/15/2022 10:43 pm
Neal will be drafted as a RT/G unless by a really needy LT team

Stingley, if the medicals check out, will be top 3 in the draft

Hamilton, whom I love, will be further devalued as a tweener/S like Isiah Simmons

Cross is a LT, and a technically flawless one. We would not move Thomas to RT for Cross. And Cross is not a RT

KT will drop further in the draft than most people think.

Enjoy the long weekend everyone.

Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
KT  
NJBlueTuna : 1/16/2022 12:48 am : link
Doesn’t have the talent Parsons has IMO
RE: I saw KT in 2 games against Utah  
JerseyCityJoe : 1/16/2022 12:52 am : link
In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy


I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.
RE: RE: I saw KT in 2 games against Utah  
j_rud : 1/16/2022 12:59 am : link
In comment 15555087 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy



I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.


It's a shame, there's such a stigmatism with being blocked by a TE...
RE: RE: I saw KT in 2 games against Utah  
NJBlueTuna : 1/16/2022 1:15 am : link
In comment 15555087 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy



I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.


Bingo.
KT  
NJBlueTuna : 1/16/2022 1:18 am : link
We can can get him at 7, assuming we want to Re the way the draft and 5 plays out if Stingley drops to 5 We must draft OL in the 1st rd that is the only thing I am certain of. We will not have a new GM take the reigns and not face the backlash of not drafting OL in the 1st rd
Don't overdraft G/C/RT  
TroyArchersGhost : 1/16/2022 3:13 am : link
There's no reason to draft a player at any OL position except LT with a Top 10 or even 1st round pick and tie up the cap space in their rookie contract. The league is full of good starting o-lineman drafted on Day 2 and 3. The Bills o-line has no first rounders, for example. Save the #1 picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down and pick up more picks and use those picks for OL, since we need 4 new starters.
RE: RE: A couple of questions for the OP and SY,  
Gruber : 1/16/2022 5:40 am : link
In comment 15555083 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15555081 barens said:


Quote:


Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year.

Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft.



All thought Parsons would be a game wrecking stud. There were concerns Re character that made him high risk. I believe the Giants had one of his former coaches at Penn State. Dallas…..well they don’t care about it as much. They take the risk and it paid off this year. Parsons is a stud when he plays
RE: RE: A couple of questions for the OP and SY,  
Gruber : 1/16/2022 5:40 am : link
In comment 15555083 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15555081 barens said:


Quote:


Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year.

Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft.



All thought Parsons would be a game wrecking stud. There were concerns Re character that made him high risk. I believe the Giants had one of his former coaches at Penn State. Dallas…..well they don’t care about it as much. They take the risk and it paid off this year. Parsons is a stud when he plays


What changed?
Wouldn't character issues have prevented us from drafting LT?
I am always willing to listen to a trade down, but  
George from PA : 1/16/2022 5:44 am : link
Absolutely the Giants must address the OL with at least one of their 1st RD draft picks.

KT motor and results must be questioned.....Parson was a beast, I wanted him but is not a team player and goes off script....Spencer knows him better than anyone....He would not have been a "NE" type of player.....

NE rarely has the elite athlete...they do not pay nor usually draft early enough...never really liked NE drafts.....I am guessing, the Brady vs Belicheck is being unanswered
Would other teams  
Dankbeerman : 1/16/2022 6:08 am : link
Draft Cross over Neal if they are looking for a LT? Or is Neals talent enough to wait on?

Is Ekwonu's weakness hidden by playing him at guard or does he need just need the work eitherway?

Does Hamiltons factor into your ranking or does that need to be evaluated also?
So, what is missing in Kayvon Thibodeaux's game  
M.S. : 1/16/2022 7:09 am : link

that will drop him further than expected?
RE: RE: RE: Zero chance  
bw in dc : 1/16/2022 7:31 am : link
In comment 15555082 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 15555050 bw in dc said:



Why? Thomas isn't Tony Boselli. If Cross is just a better LT than he should play LT and move Thomas to RT. You do what's best for the team.



Bc Thomas has been the best offensive player on this team and has been playing hurt. And has 2 yrs of NFL experience. Oh, he also has the worst guard play next to him in the NFL while making the above comments.


Being the best player on our offense means nothing. Nor does AT's experience. Slater came in right away for the Chargers and became an All-Pro LT. And he hadn't played football in over a year because he opted out due to Covid

If Cross looks to be the better player, he should get the job at LT. I really don't know why this is so difficult.

Now, I could certainly live with AT staying at LT and Cross taking RT. I'm not tied to any outcome. But to just give the LT job to AT because of experience and he's the best player on the worst offense in the NFL is the wrong way to look at it.
The hard truth with the list of names in the OP is  
chick310 : 1/16/2022 7:52 am : link
that the NY Giants would serve themselves better by trading down a bit in Round 1 with one of those picks.

So much easier to see red chips in this Draft as the blue isn't coming through very well. It is very deep in red though from all early indications which is fine.

A new GM, plenty of upgrades needed in trenches, some units almost devoid of talent altogether, questionable QB draft. These points says go for quantity over quality in 2022 and give the rebuild a good base.

If elite blue-chip talent comes more into light between now and Draft, then modify accordingly.
Hard truth  
nyballa0891 : 1/16/2022 8:11 am : link
Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 8:19 am : link
If KT is available at 5, I’m fairly certain we should take him
RE: The hard truth with the list of names in the OP is  
River Mike : 1/16/2022 8:20 am : link
In comment 15555131 chick310 said:
Quote:
that the NY Giants would serve themselves better by trading down a bit in Round 1 with one of those picks.

So much easier to see red chips in this Draft as the blue isn't coming through very well. It is very deep in red though from all early indications which is fine.

A new GM, plenty of upgrades needed in trenches, some units almost devoid of talent altogether, questionable QB draft. These points says go for quantity over quality in 2022 and give the rebuild a good base.

If elite blue-chip talent comes more into light between now and Draft, then modify accordingly.


Although I am generally opposed to trading down, the circumstances align for it to be a valid move this year and your rationales are on target.
I would take Cross is a heartbeat ...  
David_Upstate : 1/16/2022 8:21 am : link
and then figure it out

Dane Brugler’s 2022

1. *Evan Neal
2. *Ikem Ekwonu
3. *Charles Cross

"I was very close to elevating Mississippi State’s Charles Cross to No. 2 or even No. 1 in these offensive tackle rankings, which is a testament to his development and the impressive play he has put on tape this season. The redshirt sophomore is still maturing in areas and must clean up the penalties. But he has two important foundational traits that have earned him high grades across the league: athletic movement patterns and precise, timely hands.

There are plays that better show his impressive footwork and hand exchange in pass protection, but this play is one of my favorites because it shows his athletic range and nasty streak. On this designed tunnel screen, Cross is able to get out in space and eliminate the defensive back from the play. Although most 300-plus pound offensive linemen have the power to plow an unsuspecting defender, very few have the movement skills to reach him that quickly, which is why the defensive back wasn’t expecting the hit."


Dane Brugler’s 2022 NFL Draft Top-15 Position Rankings - ( New Window )
With the 5 and 7 picks  
Earl the goat : 1/16/2022 8:33 am : link
Trade them both down a few slots
Acquire additional 2’s
And draft two of the following 4
Cross
Green
Ikem
Lindenbaum


Buffalo Bills starting Offensive Line is made up of  
NYGgolfer : 1/16/2022 9:04 am : link
guys taken outside of round one. Looks like they have a mix of guys though taken between Rds 2-4 (and an UDFA) which seems like a nice balance of value and prudency, versus desperation.

Spencer Brown is a rookie playing Right Tackle and the Bills picked him up in 3rd Round. Sy56 put a very high grade on him and indicated his ceiling was very strong.

Time for the Giants to hire Joe Schoen.

RE: Hard truth  
Matt M. : 1/16/2022 9:12 am : link
In comment 15555143 nyballa0891 said:
Quote:
Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value.
This is what I've been thinking as well.
RE: RE: RE: Thoughts  
Biteymax22 : 1/16/2022 9:16 am : link
In comment 15555013 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15555000 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15554985 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1.

Agree on Stingley

Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him.

Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason.

KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10.


But if the choice is between Cross a a Ekwonu who do you take. I think Ekwonu looks like a killer RT.



Can't say for sure yet. Still have some info to get.

Cross is ready sooner, Ekwonu has a lot to clean up. He has some rare talent though


Sy’ what are your thoughts on the types of schemes each fit in. Knowing we’re looking at a couple GM candidates from the SF org, I watch Ekwonu and see someone who’s ability it space would be perfect for that system. Cross seems a little bit more of a “standard” LT. Am I over thinking this one?
RE: RE: Hard truth  
Matt M. : 1/16/2022 9:17 am : link
In comment 15555184 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15555143 nyballa0891 said:


Quote:


Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value.

This is what I've been thinking as well.
I should clarify though. I have high interest in the player. But, I think we can trade down and still have him. I don't like this positional value with OC though. That might be the hardest OL position to fill later in the draft or FA
RE: With the 5 and 7 picks  
Ivan15 : 1/16/2022 9:22 am : link
In comment 15555157 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Trade them both down a few slots
Acquire additional 2’s
And draft two of the following 4
Cross
Green
Ikem
Lindenbaum


I agree a trade down could be a great move, but I think you don’t see many trades for positions 5-9 unless it is for a QB or OT. The QB options are weak and if there is an OT available, the Giants should be picking.
Thibadeaux  
cokeduplt : 1/16/2022 9:26 am : link
Will blow up the combine and definitely go top 5. Hopefully at 5
Question for Sy  
arniefez : 1/16/2022 9:32 am : link
Thomas seems to be an above average pass blocker - not elite but above average and an average or below average run blocker so far. Is that accurate? Is that the profile of a RT?

If you were picking #5 and Cross and Neal were both there and you have Thomas as your LT would Neal make more sense for the Giants to put at RT?

I have never seen Cross play but the George Young philosophy seems to apply to Neal - there are very few people that size on the planet.


Does Neal profile as an elite run blocker? Is he overrated by people like me because we see him on TV so much and don't see much of Cross and Ekwonu?
The Giants already have a good CF free safety  
arniefez : 1/16/2022 9:32 am : link
If a team wants Hamilton maybe they can trade back for more picks.
I think you guys are severely underrating Thibodeaux  
Anakim : 1/16/2022 9:44 am : link
Along with Derek Stingley Jr. and Kyle Hamilton, he is the best TALENT in the Draft. Yes, he's more Clowney than Garrett in that he's more of an athlete than a football player at this stage. That's true. But production aside, these three are the transformative, blue chip talent. If Thibodeaux is there at 5, you rush to the podium because he does have gamebreaking, transformative talent.
The more I am reading, the more in favor I am of trading back at least  
Matt M. : 1/16/2022 9:48 am : link
1 pick. Maybe Cross at 5 and trade back 7. If Linderbaum is there later, I'd strongly consider him. That is 2 huge pieces to the OL ready to start day one.

And I also agree with bw. If Cross would deemed the better LT, what is the problem with moving AT to RT? You do whatever you think will make this team better. IF AT is deemed better, he stays and Cross (or whoever else) goes to RT. It's simple. I really like Thomas and think he is a very good LT. It's not an indictment on him or giving up on him. It is simply saying as good as he is, if someone is better, we owe it to ourselves to take them and figure it out. Our team is that bad and has that many holes.
Defense in round one - Sy?  
GeoMan999 : 1/16/2022 9:51 am : link
What do you think about going Karlauftis/Thibs and Nakobe Dean in first round, and then OLine in rounds 2-3? Is there enough oline quality there? Or do we have to take one in the first round?
RE: Defense in round one - Sy?  
Matt M. : 1/16/2022 9:55 am : link
In comment 15555223 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
What do you think about going Karlauftis/Thibs and Nakobe Dean in first round, and then OLine in rounds 2-3? Is there enough oline quality there? Or do we have to take one in the first round?
We have 1 OL on the entire roster we feel completely comfortable starting. Granted, someone like Brederson may stick and start at an OG position. But, realistically, we are looking to fill 4 OL positions. I wouldn't ignore OL in round 1.
RE: Thibadeaux  
bw in dc : 1/16/2022 10:18 am : link
In comment 15555203 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Will blow up the combine and definitely go top 5. Hopefully at 5


He likely will have a great Combine.

But the film doesn't lie. KT disappears in games and his production is questionable for the talent level.

I wouldn't touch KT with a top 10 pick. So I hope someone takes him early and we don't consider taking him with a lottery pick.
Prediction: Giants Hire New GM (Schoen/Hortiz/Poles/Ossenfort)  
clatterbuck : 1/16/2022 10:27 am : link
to great acclaim from beat writers, NFL media, fans. New GM doesn't draft an offensive lineman in Round 1. Beat writers, NFL media, fans explode in volcanic eruption that can be seen from the international space station.
Agree with you on Cross.  
jeff57 : 1/16/2022 10:32 am : link
.
They should just keep drafting OTs  
David B. : 1/16/2022 10:48 am : link
Worry about where to play them later. I don't care if the whole OL is made of OTs. These guys get hurt all the time. You cannot have too many of them.

We haven’t had a talent like KT on the DL  
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 10:54 am : link
in forever. If we pass and he’s the next Von Miller that’s an absolute disaster
RE: Don't overdraft G/C/RT  
PatersonPlank : 1/16/2022 10:55 am : link
In comment 15555106 TroyArchersGhost said:
Quote:
There's no reason to draft a player at any OL position except LT with a Top 10 or even 1st round pick and tie up the cap space in their rookie contract. The league is full of good starting o-lineman drafted on Day 2 and 3. The Bills o-line has no first rounders, for example. Save the #1 picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down and pick up more picks and use those picks for OL, since we need 4 new starters.


I disagree. If we can get a guy like Brandon Scherff, a 4 time Pro Bowler and a mainstay at G, then I'd grab him. We need quality OL players, not quantity
 
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 11:05 am : link
Linderbaum could be worth the 7th pick, or perhaps in a slight trade down. The guy might be the next Jason Kelce or Nick Mangold. Fine by me in the top 10.
Look at the playoff teams  
Sammo85 : 1/16/2022 11:08 am : link
And see how many teams have 1st or 2nd rounders playing on the OL. A lot of them maybe have one, maybe two tops in Cowboys case (some from or by way of other teams first).

Giants simply need to start with getting better evaluation and development personnel in their front office first that synchs with a scheme/coaching program. You can find good OL fits in mid rounds. I don’t like take two OL in first round this year with some of the defensive talents that will be there in top of draft.

I see Ekwonu as a G at NFL level.
RE: Look at the playoff teams  
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 11:11 am : link
In comment 15555345 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
And see how many teams have 1st or 2nd rounders playing on the OL. A lot of them maybe have one, maybe two tops in Cowboys case (some from or by way of other teams first).

Giants simply need to start with getting better evaluation and development personnel in their front office first that synchs with a scheme/coaching program. You can find good OL fits in mid rounds. I don’t like take two OL in first round this year with some of the defensive talents that will be there in top of draft.

I see Ekwonu as a G at NFL level.

Yep, overhaul of the scouting should be able to find some gems in the mid rounds. But - we should still consider the elite talent when it’s there. For example - if they have Linderbaum and Stingley on the same plane I’m taking OL. It just seems more important in todays NFL to have dominant linemen than corners
RE: RE: Look at the playoff teams  
Sammo85 : 1/16/2022 11:16 am : link
In comment 15555351 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15555345 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


And see how many teams have 1st or 2nd rounders playing on the OL. A lot of them maybe have one, maybe two tops in Cowboys case (some from or by way of other teams first).

Giants simply need to start with getting better evaluation and development personnel in their front office first that synchs with a scheme/coaching program. You can find good OL fits in mid rounds. I don’t like take two OL in first round this year with some of the defensive talents that will be there in top of draft.

I see Ekwonu as a G at NFL level.


Yep, overhaul of the scouting should be able to find some gems in the mid rounds. But - we should still consider the elite talent when it’s there. For example - if they have Linderbaum and Stingley on the same plane I’m taking OL. It just seems more important in todays NFL to have dominant linemen than corners


Depends on your defensive scheme. If we hire Martindale as HC, I’d be surprised he wouldn’t bang the table for a corner like that he can plug and play off of for next 5 yrs at least. Bills have terrific secondary too.

I’m also keen on couple of the LBs in this draft.
You guys are so predictable  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/16/2022 11:18 am : link
Every year the same shit. Every year the Giants are picking one slot out of the "blue chips". Every year they need to trade down.

They have plenty of picks. They have plenty of holes. This should be a no brainer. Take the best player.

I see no reason why Cross cant move to RT.

I see no reason Thomas can't move to RT.

KT is an immense talent even if you saw him get blocked that time.

Linderbaum could be an all-pro center, and the Giants line is shit, but of course they arent allowed to pick him at 7 right?

You guys should print a rule book.
If you draft Cross for RT  
JohnF : 1/16/2022 11:21 am : link
Yes, he may be better suited for LT, but he should easily be able to handle RT, and get valuable experience on that side (instead of being tossed into the fire on the left side).

You would have the insurance of being able to shift Cross over to LT if Thomas gets dinged up. It's a win/win then. Remember, we not only need starters on the OL, we need depth as well, since you have to presume that bodies won't hold up over 17-18 game regular seasons.
Not sure why I’m down on  
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 11:27 am : link
Martindale as HC but I don’t see him as a great choice. Seems like a coordinator and that’s his lane
RE: Buffalo Bills starting Offensive Line is made up of  
barens : 1/16/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15555171 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
guys taken outside of round one. Looks like they have a mix of guys though taken between Rds 2-4 (and an UDFA) which seems like a nice balance of value and prudency, versus desperation.

Spencer Brown is a rookie playing Right Tackle and the Bills picked him up in 3rd Round. Sy56 put a very high grade on him and indicated his ceiling was very strong.

Time for the Giants to hire Joe Schoen.


Makes you wonder if Buffalo had taken Matt Peart last year, would they have been able to be as successful if he had to man the right tackle position.
RE: Buffalo Bills starting Offensive Line is made up of  
Gruber : 1/16/2022 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15555171 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
guys taken outside of round one. Looks like they have a mix of guys though taken between Rds 2-4 (and an UDFA) which seems like a nice balance of value and prudency, versus desperation.

Spencer Brown is a rookie playing Right Tackle and the Bills picked him up in 3rd Round. Sy56 put a very high grade on him and indicated his ceiling was very strong.

Time for the Giants to hire Joe Schoen.



And in Baltimore:

"The Giants have made 15 picks in the third round, 13 in the fourth and 12 in the fifth in the past 12 drafts, while the Ravens have made 21, 25 and 19, respectively. The third round has been a notorious desert for the Giants, whose last significant contributor was Mario Manningham, drafted in 2008. The last third-rounder to sign a second contract was 2005 pick Justin Tuck."

You can be sure those later round picks have made significant contributions to the Ravens.
RE: KT  
Eman11 : 1/16/2022 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15555096 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
We can can get him at 7, assuming we want to Re the way the draft and 5 plays out if Stingley drops to 5 We must draft OL in the 1st rd that is the only thing I am certain of. We will not have a new GM take the reigns and not face the backlash of not drafting OL in the 1st rd


Or we can have a GM who knows he doesn’t have to overdraft OL in order to get really good ones and is confident in his ability to evaluate and find them later.

A GM who knows talent, sees the lack of it here and takes the most talented players he can with our two 1st round picks. If that’s an OL, fine but I want a guy confident enough to take the best players regardless of position or need.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2022 2:04 pm : link
Passing on rare talent would be a mistake. Take KT if he actually drops to 5, which I don’t think he will. Jets will take him if he’s there at 4.
Here's a dirty little secret about Buffalo's OL  
Red Dog : 1/16/2022 2:30 pm : link
that is made up entirely of guys taken after the first round.

They get manhandled by tough, hard-nosed football teams.

That's why they can't beat the Titans and have trouble with other physical teams.

The OL is the weakest part of the Bills. Josh Allen, who is becoming a very unique QB, covers for their shortcomings a whole lot.
RE: Here's a dirty little secret about Buffalo's OL  
TroyArchersGhost : 1/16/2022 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15555676 Red Dog said:
Quote:
that is made up entirely of guys taken after the first round.

They get manhandled by tough, hard-nosed football teams.

That's why they can't beat the Titans and have trouble with other physical teams.

The OL is the weakest part of the Bills. Josh Allen, who is becoming a very unique QB, covers for their shortcomings a whole lot.


Between the Chiefs' and Ravens' o-lines, there is ONE 1st rounder: Ronnie Stanley, a LT. Are they getting pushed around?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Zero chance  
giantstock : 1/16/2022 8:22 pm : link
In comment 15555128 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15555082 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 15555050 bw in dc said:



Why? Thomas isn't Tony Boselli. If Cross is just a better LT than he should play LT and move Thomas to RT. You do what's best for the team.



Bc Thomas has been the best offensive player on this team and has been playing hurt. And has 2 yrs of NFL experience. Oh, he also has the worst guard play next to him in the NFL while making the above comments.



Being the best player on our offense means nothing. Nor does AT's experience. Slater came in right away for the Chargers and became an All-Pro LT. And he hadn't played football in over a year because he opted out due to Covid

If Cross looks to be the better player, he should get the job at LT. I really don't know why this is so difficult.

Now, I could certainly live with AT staying at LT and Cross taking RT. I'm not tied to any outcome. But to just give the LT job to AT because of experience and he's the best player on the worst offense in the NFL is the wrong way to look at it.


One of the few times I agree with you. Stating you can't move a possible better LT ot LT while moving the other to right seems to me as archaic thinking.

Glad to see SY chime in about Cross also being capable at RT.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner