Draft prospects hard truth

Thomas or Cross? I'm assuming Thomas right? And can't Thomas also play RT? Because Thomas at RT with Cross at left would give us a potent OL but I can see why others won't want to. So our best bets is to hope Neal falls to 5 or draft Ekwonu.

There is zero chance we move Thomas to RT for Cross or anyone in this draft. Zero.

Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1.

Agree on Stingley

Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him.

Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason.

KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10.

It's stunning.

In comment 15554985 Sy'56 said:

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Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1. Agree on Stingley Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him. Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason. KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10.

Thanks Sy always value your opinion. Just lol that if you didn’t post I would be getting crucified lol.

In comment 15554985 Sy'56 said:

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Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1. Agree on Stingley Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him. Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason. KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10.

But if the choice is between Cross a a Ekwonu who do you take. I think Ekwonu looks like a killer RT.

In comment 15555000 BillT said:

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In comment 15554985 Sy'56 said: Quote: Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1. Agree on Stingley Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him. Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason. KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10. But if the choice is between Cross a a Ekwonu who do you take. I think Ekwonu looks like a killer RT.

Can't say for sure yet. Still have some info to get.

Cross is ready sooner, Ekwonu has a lot to clean up. He has some rare talent though

215 maybe 220 lbs(where Sehorn was as a CB). He is faster than Simmons. Do not see him as a tweener at all. With his range, I see him as a FS - true centerfielder.

Are you referring to Thibodeaux?

If you are why are you downgrading him?

being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy

I have a hard time evaluating him. I guess what scheme he is in matters too.

In comment 15554990 Producer said:

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It's stunning.

I don't think it's epic. The play on the field this year just doesn't support the hype. KT disappears too much in games. And he gets dinged too much. He has some real nice attributes, but I don't trust that motor and desire.

In comment 15554965 NJBlueTuna said:

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There is zero chance we move Thomas to RT for Cross or anyone in this draft. Zero.

Why? Thomas isn't Tony Boselli. If Cross is just a better LT than he should play LT and move Thomas to RT. You do what's best for the team.

Sy….does my ass look fat in these jeans? Lol

Sy, not directed at you, I hope you get the humor.

Btw…Steelers win tomo.

Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year.

Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft.

In comment 15555050 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15554965 NJBlueTuna said: Quote: There is zero chance we move Thomas to RT for Cross or anyone in this draft. Zero. Why? Thomas isn't Tony Boselli. If Cross is just a better LT than he should play LT and move Thomas to RT. You do what's best for the team.

Bc Thomas has been the best offensive player on this team and has been playing hurt. And has 2 yrs of NFL experience. Oh, he also has the worst guard play next to him in the NFL while making the above comments.

In comment 15555081 barens said:

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Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year. Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft.

All thought Parsons would be a game wrecking stud. There were concerns Re character that made him high risk. I believe the Giants had one of his former coaches at Penn State. Dallas…..well they don’t care about it as much. They take the risk and it paid off this year. Parsons is a stud when he plays

Doesn’t have the talent Parsons has IMO

In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said:

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being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy

I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.

In comment 15555087 JerseyCityJoe said:

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In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said: Quote: being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.

It's a shame, there's such a stigmatism with being blocked by a TE...

In comment 15555087 JerseyCityJoe said:

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In comment 15555043 Bill in UT said: Quote: being blocked one on one by TE's. I don't see him as a top 5 guy I watched those games too. He was clearly game planned against. Yeah he was blocked by the TE a bunch in those games but those Utah TE's are damm good blockers. That being said I agree with you that he didn't look like a top 5 pick.

Bingo.

We can can get him at 7, assuming we want to Re the way the draft and 5 plays out if Stingley drops to 5 We must draft OL in the 1st rd that is the only thing I am certain of. We will not have a new GM take the reigns and not face the backlash of not drafting OL in the 1st rd

There's no reason to draft a player at any OL position except LT with a Top 10 or even 1st round pick and tie up the cap space in their rookie contract. The league is full of good starting o-lineman drafted on Day 2 and 3. The Bills o-line has no first rounders, for example. Save the #1 picks for defense, QB, or WR, or trade down and pick up more picks and use those picks for OL, since we need 4 new starters.

In comment 15555083 NJBlueTuna said:

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In comment 15555081 barens said: Quote: Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year. Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft. All thought Parsons would be a game wrecking stud. There were concerns Re character that made him high risk. I believe the Giants had one of his former coaches at Penn State. Dallas…..well they don’t care about it as much. They take the risk and it paid off this year. Parsons is a stud when he plays

In comment 15555083 NJBlueTuna said:

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In comment 15555081 barens said: Quote: Regarding KT, can he be a player that excels in the NFL more than in college? I ask because there were similar question with Micah Parsons last year, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted his success this year. Also, can you guys offer your .02 cents on Ojabo and Nakobe Dean? I’m hearing both players are highly thought of, and may get taken higher in the draft. All thought Parsons would be a game wrecking stud. There were concerns Re character that made him high risk. I believe the Giants had one of his former coaches at Penn State. Dallas…..well they don’t care about it as much. They take the risk and it paid off this year. Parsons is a stud when he plays

What changed?
Wouldn't character issues have prevented us from drafting LT?

Absolutely the Giants must address the OL with at least one of their 1st RD draft picks.

KT motor and results must be questioned.....Parson was a beast, I wanted him but is not a team player and goes off script....Spencer knows him better than anyone....He would not have been a "NE" type of player.....

NE rarely has the elite athlete...they do not pay nor usually draft early enough...never really liked NE drafts.....I am guessing, the Brady vs Belicheck is being unanswered

Draft Cross over Neal if they are looking for a LT? Or is Neals talent enough to wait on?

Is Ekwonu's weakness hidden by playing him at guard or does he need just need the work eitherway?

Does Hamiltons factor into your ranking or does that need to be evaluated also?

that will drop him further than expected?

In comment 15555082 NJBlueTuna said:

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In comment 15555050 bw in dc said: Why? Thomas isn't Tony Boselli. If Cross is just a better LT than he should play LT and move Thomas to RT. You do what's best for the team. Bc Thomas has been the best offensive player on this team and has been playing hurt. And has 2 yrs of NFL experience. Oh, he also has the worst guard play next to him in the NFL while making the above comments.

Being the best player on our offense means nothing. Nor does AT's experience. Slater came in right away for the Chargers and became an All-Pro LT. And he hadn't played football in over a year because he opted out due to Covid

If Cross looks to be the better player, he should get the job at LT. I really don't know why this is so difficult.

Now, I could certainly live with AT staying at LT and Cross taking RT. I'm not tied to any outcome. But to just give the LT job to AT because of experience and he's the best player on the worst offense in the NFL is the wrong way to look at it.

that the NY Giants would serve themselves better by trading down a bit in Round 1 with one of those picks.

So much easier to see red chips in this Draft as the blue isn't coming through very well. It is very deep in red though from all early indications which is fine.

A new GM, plenty of upgrades needed in trenches, some units almost devoid of talent altogether, questionable QB draft. These points says go for quantity over quality in 2022 and give the rebuild a good base.

If elite blue-chip talent comes more into light between now and Draft, then modify accordingly.

Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value.

If KT is available at 5, I’m fairly certain we should take him

In comment 15555131 chick310 said:

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that the NY Giants would serve themselves better by trading down a bit in Round 1 with one of those picks. So much easier to see red chips in this Draft as the blue isn't coming through very well. It is very deep in red though from all early indications which is fine. A new GM, plenty of upgrades needed in trenches, some units almost devoid of talent altogether, questionable QB draft. These points says go for quantity over quality in 2022 and give the rebuild a good base. If elite blue-chip talent comes more into light between now and Draft, then modify accordingly.

Although I am generally opposed to trading down, the circumstances align for it to be a valid move this year and your rationales are on target.

and then figure it out

Dane Brugler’s 2022

1. *Evan Neal
2. *Ikem Ekwonu
3. *Charles Cross

"I was very close to elevating Mississippi State’s Charles Cross to No. 2 or even No. 1 in these offensive tackle rankings, which is a testament to his development and the impressive play he has put on tape this season. The redshirt sophomore is still maturing in areas and must clean up the penalties. But he has two important foundational traits that have earned him high grades across the league: athletic movement patterns and precise, timely hands.

There are plays that better show his impressive footwork and hand exchange in pass protection, but this play is one of my favorites because it shows his athletic range and nasty streak. On this designed tunnel screen, Cross is able to get out in space and eliminate the defensive back from the play. Although most 300-plus pound offensive linemen have the power to plow an unsuspecting defender, very few have the movement skills to reach him that quickly, which is why the defensive back wasn’t expecting the hit."


Dane Brugler’s 2022 NFL Draft Top-15 Position Rankings - ( New Window )

Trade them both down a few slots
Acquire additional 2’s
And draft two of the following 4
Cross
Green
Ikem
Lindenbaum

guys taken outside of round one. Looks like they have a mix of guys though taken between Rds 2-4 (and an UDFA) which seems like a nice balance of value and prudency, versus desperation.

Spencer Brown is a rookie playing Right Tackle and the Bills picked him up in 3rd Round. Sy56 put a very high grade on him and indicated his ceiling was very strong.

Time for the Giants to hire Joe Schoen.

In comment 15555143 nyballa0891 said:

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Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value.

This is what I've been thinking as well.

In comment 15555013 Sy'56 said:

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In comment 15555000 BillT said: Quote: In comment 15554985 Sy'56 said: Quote: Agree on Neal, starting off anyway. The athletic upside could eventually land him at LT, but he would be best suited elsewhere year 1. Agree on Stingley Hamilton will have split opinions. Some will see top 5, some won't see top 10. Similar to Simmons, will need a role created/carevd out for him. Cross will have no issues going to RT if needed. Ideally he is at LT, but nobody will pass on him for that reason. KT is more top 15 for me than top 5. I can see him out of top 10. But if the choice is between Cross a a Ekwonu who do you take. I think Ekwonu looks like a killer RT. Can't say for sure yet. Still have some info to get. Cross is ready sooner, Ekwonu has a lot to clean up. He has some rare talent though

Sy’ what are your thoughts on the types of schemes each fit in. Knowing we’re looking at a couple GM candidates from the SF org, I watch Ekwonu and see someone who’s ability it space would be perfect for that system. Cross seems a little bit more of a “standard” LT. Am I over thinking this one?

In comment 15555184 Matt M. said:

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In comment 15555143 nyballa0891 said: Quote: Linderbaum will be worth it at 7–screw positional value. This is what I've been thinking as well.

I should clarify though. I have high interest in the player. But, I think we can trade down and still have him. I don't like this positional value with OC though. That might be the hardest OL position to fill later in the draft or FA

In comment 15555157 Earl the goat said:

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Trade them both down a few slots Acquire additional 2’s And draft two of the following 4 Cross Green Ikem Lindenbaum

I agree a trade down could be a great move, but I think you don’t see many trades for positions 5-9 unless it is for a QB or OT. The QB options are weak and if there is an OT available, the Giants should be picking.

Will blow up the combine and definitely go top 5. Hopefully at 5

Thomas seems to be an above average pass blocker - not elite but above average and an average or below average run blocker so far. Is that accurate? Is that the profile of a RT?

If you were picking #5 and Cross and Neal were both there and you have Thomas as your LT would Neal make more sense for the Giants to put at RT?

I have never seen Cross play but the George Young philosophy seems to apply to Neal - there are very few people that size on the planet.


Does Neal profile as an elite run blocker? Is he overrated by people like me because we see him on TV so much and don't see much of Cross and Ekwonu?

If a team wants Hamilton maybe they can trade back for more picks.

Along with Derek Stingley Jr. and Kyle Hamilton, he is the best TALENT in the Draft. Yes, he's more Clowney than Garrett in that he's more of an athlete than a football player at this stage. That's true. But production aside, these three are the transformative, blue chip talent. If Thibodeaux is there at 5, you rush to the podium because he does have gamebreaking, transformative talent.

1 pick. Maybe Cross at 5 and trade back 7. If Linderbaum is there later, I'd strongly consider him. That is 2 huge pieces to the OL ready to start day one.

And I also agree with bw. If Cross would deemed the better LT, what is the problem with moving AT to RT? You do whatever you think will make this team better. IF AT is deemed better, he stays and Cross (or whoever else) goes to RT. It's simple. I really like Thomas and think he is a very good LT. It's not an indictment on him or giving up on him. It is simply saying as good as he is, if someone is better, we owe it to ourselves to take them and figure it out. Our team is that bad and has that many holes.

What do you think about going Karlauftis/Thibs and Nakobe Dean in first round, and then OLine in rounds 2-3? Is there enough oline quality there? Or do we have to take one in the first round?

In comment 15555223 GeoMan999 said:

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What do you think about going Karlauftis/Thibs and Nakobe Dean in first round, and then OLine in rounds 2-3? Is there enough oline quality there? Or do we have to take one in the first round?

We have 1 OL on the entire roster we feel completely comfortable starting. Granted, someone like Brederson may stick and start at an OG position. But, realistically, we are looking to fill 4 OL positions. I wouldn't ignore OL in round 1.

In comment 15555203 cokeduplt said:

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Will blow up the combine and definitely go top 5. Hopefully at 5

He likely will have a great Combine.

But the film doesn't lie. KT disappears in games and his production is questionable for the talent level.

I wouldn't touch KT with a top 10 pick. So I hope someone takes him early and we don't consider taking him with a lottery pick.

to great acclaim from beat writers, NFL media, fans. New GM doesn't draft an offensive lineman in Round 1. Beat writers, NFL media, fans explode in volcanic eruption that can be seen from the international space station.

.