but it's a lot easier being an OC when you have the most talented QB in the NFL able to make such incredible plays off-script.
This, Allen is the engine of that team. I’ve never seen a QB with a cannon like that and can run like a RB. If he stays healthy he’s going to be a legend.
but it's a lot easier being an OC when you have the most talented QB in the NFL able to make such incredible plays off-script.
This, Allen is the engine of that team. I’ve never seen a QB with a cannon like that and can run like a RB. If he stays healthy he’s going to be a legend.
He actually reminds me of a young Elway.
young Elway old Elway, the one team he never beat was the NY Giants
Obviously they paid premium dollars for Diggs, but even then it wasn't grotesque for the player he is. He got 5 years for $72 million, and in 2020 when he signed that deal it was only 16th in AAV positionally.
Emmanuel Sanders they signed for 1 year at $6 million.
They signed Beasley back in 2019 for 4 years, $29 million.
No how about this, here's how they acquired:
Isaiah McKenzie 5th rounder, #172
Gabriel Davis, 4th rounder, #128
And Jake Kumerow, a career practice squad/bubble player they got for a reserves/future contract, and he's made plays for them, particularly late this regular season.
Any one of those guys outside of Kumerow would be a top 2 (or maybe 3) receiver for the Giants, really top receiver if we just base it on production.
Let's not forget Dawson Knox, who is a budding star, a 3rd round pick, #96 overall.
Brandon Beane has put on a master class in team building. And he did it by going early on trench guys and pass rushers, and getting skill players in the middle rounds.
If Schoen had any meaningful role in that, and hard to imagine he didn't, then I want him badly as the next GM for the Giants.
I was listening to Talkin Giants, and a good point was made. The Bills bring in versatile players while the Ravens bring in specific players. I like the idea of having players that could potentially fit various schemes. Something we’ve seen with the Ravens, their teams have struggled in the playoffs.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
I was listening to Talkin Giants, and a good point was made. The Bills bring in versatile players while the Ravens bring in specific players. I like the idea of having players that could potentially fit various schemes. Something we’ve seen with the Ravens, their teams have struggled in the playoffs.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
My concern about HC running offense as well is that football is a team sport. As HC you can’t get tunnel vision on the side of the ball that is your background.
I was listening to Talkin Giants, and a good point was made. The Bills bring in versatile players while the Ravens bring in specific players. I like the idea of having players that could potentially fit various schemes. Something we’ve seen with the Ravens, their teams have struggled in the playoffs.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
My concern about HC running offense as well is that football is a team sport. As HC you can’t get tunnel vision on the side of the ball that is your background.
Something always SEEMS to happen when a solid coordinator takes on the HC reins..They have to concentrate on everything and more often than not they become conservative. Too conservative for my taste
Very valid point Earl. He had the number one defense in Carolina as DC and has put together a real good one again. Interesting both had really good fronts (LB's). He listened well to Jim Johnson.
with a focus on one side of the ball (except the very rare special teams coach). Many of them do fine if they have a strong coordinator on the other side. The only way to avoid that is a former HC or college HC (who still made their reputation on one side of the ball)
It seems Daboll is a really good coordinator. I don’t know if he will be a good coach, but that why you interview them and talk to the people who know them. Every first time coach will be somewhat of a gamble.
You just made that up about Beane drafting trench players first. His first pick was Allen. His second pick in the first round of that draft was Edmonds a linebacker, He traded a first for Diggs,a wideout. He's drafted two running backs and a tight end in the third round.
offense was on display last night and it was startling, even considering personnel. Josh Allen is a singular, amazing talent but I still think Daniel Jones could play a good enough version of that kind of game, in that kind of scheme. Also, watching how Daboll deploys Isaiah McKenzie, couldn't help but think about Toney and how his talent could be maximized. Jones' (and Toney's) durability and availability are questions that need to be answered. Fix the O-line and then let's see what we've got.
Daboll is the perfect choice at the right time for the Giants
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
RE: RE: Daboll is the perfect choice at the right time for the Giants
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
I like this thinking a lot….bring in Schoen, Daboll, and Trubiskey.
I don’t think Daboll is coming here. I think Miami wants him to reunite and work with Tua.
Also he was put on firing watch when Bills struggled middle of the year and apparently was clashing with McDermott because he went conservative and was forcing Allen to make too many plays with his feet.
Josh Allen is a special player. Daniel Jones is not.
RE: RE: Daboll is the perfect choice at the right time for the Giants
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
I didn't think about the Trubiskey angle. Good call.
Daboll and Frazier interviews coming up with other teams
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
#Bills OC Brian Daboll is scheduled to interview for the #Dolphins and #Bears head coaching jobs today, while DC Leslie Frazier will interview with Miami today and Chicago later this week, per sources. Big meetings after a big win.
RE: Look how much TIME he was given to pass the ball
Look at the huge holes JA and the RBs were given when they ran the ball. How did that happen?????
They have a quality OLine. Maybe the Giants should invest in one too.
Yeah that can't be understated in regards to the Giants. I have mentioned this many times but it really was night and day watching the Bills (vs. Tampa IIRC) game side by side with the Giants. That OL is only middle of the pack but it was light years ahead of the Giants. It was sickening watching their RBs only have to beat one guy, or actually see daylight and hit a hole for a huge gain... Not to mention Allen have time to scan the field for 4th and 5th options. The thing I can't figure out is how much of that was putrid talent or putrid coaching/scheme. Our whole offense took a nosedive when Timmy Toughnuts came to town.
"And he did it by going early on trench guys and pass rushers"
Some facts: Not a single first-round pick on the Bills OL. Only 1 player (the LT) was on the Bills before Josh Allen, the rest all acquired 2019 or after. Only the LT drafted by the Bills higher than the 3rd round (in the 2nd round). The 3 interior players all originally drafted by other teams. 2 were acquired as free agents, 1 in a trade for a Bills LB (who was already on third team when on the Bills). One interior player was originally an undrafted free agent as a rookie. Bobby Hart is currently on the Bills roster as a backup.
Some more: In the last 10 drafts (going back to 2012 draft) Bills have drafted in the first round: 2 QB, 2 DE, 2 CB, 1 WR, 1 LB, and 1 DT. Zero OL and zero RB.
Just for fun: Bengals current starting OL has 1 first-round pick at LT, 2 6-th round picks, 2 free agents who were originally undrafted free agents.
you can draft all the good projected players you want, but if the coaching staff sucks balls, and players don't develop, it doesn't matter who you picked.
the coaching the last two years has been terrible. this has been a continuing theme for quite awhile now. How many players have we talked about regressing, frankly, on both sides of the ball.
first, the right guy as GM, to clean up the mess with the organization. Then a guy as HC, that he can work with to build the roster. What would be helpful is to take some of the players (who have underperformed) and get more out of them.
This will be a process, Daboll is one of MANY guys who would be a good choice as HC. Don't get panicky by anything else going on.
This, Allen is the engine of that team. I’ve never seen a QB with a cannon like that and can run like a RB. If he stays healthy he’s going to be a legend.
It is fun to watch. Honestly, every teams offense is fun to watch when you compare them to the garbage we had to watch all season lol.
The Bills and the Cardinals are super innovative and keep every play interesting.
Quote:
but it's a lot easier being an OC when you have the most talented QB in the NFL able to make such incredible plays off-script.
This, Allen is the engine of that team. I’ve never seen a QB with a cannon like that and can run like a RB. If he stays healthy he’s going to be a legend.
He actually reminds me of a young Elway.
Obviously they paid premium dollars for Diggs, but even then it wasn't grotesque for the player he is. He got 5 years for $72 million, and in 2020 when he signed that deal it was only 16th in AAV positionally.
Emmanuel Sanders they signed for 1 year at $6 million.
They signed Beasley back in 2019 for 4 years, $29 million.
No how about this, here's how they acquired:
Isaiah McKenzie 5th rounder, #172
Gabriel Davis, 4th rounder, #128
And Jake Kumerow, a career practice squad/bubble player they got for a reserves/future contract, and he's made plays for them, particularly late this regular season.
Any one of those guys outside of Kumerow would be a top 2 (or maybe 3) receiver for the Giants, really top receiver if we just base it on production.
Let's not forget Dawson Knox, who is a budding star, a 3rd round pick, #96 overall.
Brandon Beane has put on a master class in team building. And he did it by going early on trench guys and pass rushers, and getting skill players in the middle rounds.
If Schoen had any meaningful role in that, and hard to imagine he didn't, then I want him badly as the next GM for the Giants.
It's pretty great. Those people do not fuck around.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
My concern about HC running offense as well is that football is a team sport. As HC you can’t get tunnel vision on the side of the ball that is your background.
How about McDermott. He’s a top flight coach
Quote:
I was listening to Talkin Giants, and a good point was made. The Bills bring in versatile players while the Ravens bring in specific players. I like the idea of having players that could potentially fit various schemes. Something we’ve seen with the Ravens, their teams have struggled in the playoffs.
A few more points:
-I think it’s easier to bring in a new DC with an established offense in place. Daboll will be the HC and run the offense without risk of losing the OC.
-It’s been reported that Beane/Schoen built the analytics department in Buffalo with nothing in place prior.
-Schoen may be the best to oversee an entire football operation.
Daboll will likely get an offer from the Dolphins or Bears, hope he waits out what the Giants do.
My concern about HC running offense as well is that football is a team sport. As HC you can’t get tunnel vision on the side of the ball that is your background.
Something always SEEMS to happen when a solid coordinator takes on the HC reins..They have to concentrate on everything and more often than not they become conservative. Too conservative for my taste
How about McDermott. He’s a top flight coach
Very valid point Earl. He had the number one defense in Carolina as DC and has put together a real good one again. Interesting both had really good fronts (LB's). He listened well to Jim Johnson.
It seems Daboll is a really good coordinator. I don’t know if he will be a good coach, but that why you interview them and talk to the people who know them. Every first time coach will be somewhat of a gamble.
They have a quality OLine. Maybe the Giants should invest in one too.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
Quote:
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
I like this thinking a lot….bring in Schoen, Daboll, and Trubiskey.
Also he was put on firing watch when Bills struggled middle of the year and apparently was clashing with McDermott because he went conservative and was forcing Allen to make too many plays with his feet.
Josh Allen is a special player. Daniel Jones is not.
Quote:
It's a bad draft class, so give him a year to see what he can do with Daniel Jones. If it doesn't work out, he would have had a year to install his offense, fix the line.... Then in 2023 the Giants can draft a QB.
Not a bad plan but I would bring in Trubisky to compete with Jones for the starting job. With the draft picks this year the Giants can address the OL, TE, and pass rush.
I didn't think about the Trubiskey angle. Good call.
@TomPelissero
#Bills OC Brian Daboll is scheduled to interview for the #Dolphins and #Bears head coaching jobs today, while DC Leslie Frazier will interview with Miami today and Chicago later this week, per sources. Big meetings after a big win.
They have a quality OLine. Maybe the Giants should invest in one too.
Yeah that can't be understated in regards to the Giants. I have mentioned this many times but it really was night and day watching the Bills (vs. Tampa IIRC) game side by side with the Giants. That OL is only middle of the pack but it was light years ahead of the Giants. It was sickening watching their RBs only have to beat one guy, or actually see daylight and hit a hole for a huge gain... Not to mention Allen have time to scan the field for 4th and 5th options. The thing I can't figure out is how much of that was putrid talent or putrid coaching/scheme. Our whole offense took a nosedive when Timmy Toughnuts came to town.
Some more: In the last 10 drafts (going back to 2012 draft) Bills have drafted in the first round: 2 QB, 2 DE, 2 CB, 1 WR, 1 LB, and 1 DT. Zero OL and zero RB.
Just for fun: Bengals current starting OL has 1 first-round pick at LT, 2 6-th round picks, 2 free agents who were originally undrafted free agents.
the coaching the last two years has been terrible. this has been a continuing theme for quite awhile now. How many players have we talked about regressing, frankly, on both sides of the ball.
first, the right guy as GM, to clean up the mess with the organization. Then a guy as HC, that he can work with to build the roster. What would be helpful is to take some of the players (who have underperformed) and get more out of them.
This will be a process, Daboll is one of MANY guys who would be a good choice as HC. Don't get panicky by anything else going on.