NFT: Knicks asshat stuff

I still think it's too early to trade Randle unless it's for a better player, like in Simmons deal or something similar.

I would love to see how this offense looks with a real point guard, maybe they make a trade for Brunson before the deadline and we can see how things look with him running the show. Randle absolutely is a big threat offensively, you can see that by the amount of attention he attracts from opposing defenses, but I would love to see how he operates without having to be the primary facilitator and just being able to pick his spots, hit the open man when he is doubled, and not feel the need to press the issue. Maybe that is wishful thinking, and he is going to dominate the ball either way, but I would at least like to get the chance to see it first.

There has to be another trade coming. There just aren't enough minutes to go around between RJ, Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Rose, Walker, and Reddish once they are all healthy. I wouldn't be shocked to see Quickley, Grimes, Burks, Walker or Fournier on the move before the end of the year. I don't think there is any chance Barrett is traded, Rose is too much of a Thibs guy, and I think they hang on to Reddish to see what they have with him first. Toppin is the other guy that is likely to be moved at some point. Just doesn't seem like they are all that interested to find minutes for him, and if he is not going to play then his value just starts to decline the longer you hold onto him.

Should be an interesting next few weeks as we get closer to the deadline.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

if the Knicks didnt make a move to consolidate some of the depth, especially with the Reddish deal..

Not saying Reddish is deserving to start or play 35 minutes BUT ot was well known he wasnt happy about his role, you dont trade for him to put him in the same role and same minutes..

I also wouldnt be shocked if the Knicks take a swing at the deadline.

the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating."

Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

He's our best player. He should be the number option though. That should always be RJ.

I would like to see JR be a lot more confident in his shooting though. He passes up way too many open look threes. We need him to be 10x more aggressive and decisive. And we need to see him in more of a facilitator kind of role rather than playing ISO Randle.

He's our best rebounder, our best screen setter, and he's among the best disher on the team. I'm not moving him for Brunson. We would be crazy to include him in a deal like that, and DAL would jump all over it.

Imo Kemba, Fournier, IQ, and Obi are the fungible pieces on the team right now. I wouldn't look to move them unless I'm getting something good. But I wouldn't hold on to any of them too tightly.

Obi is fun to watch, but he is very limited right now. He can't create his own shot and he's already 23. I think we overrate our own guys. Trading Obi and pick for a legit starting PG like Brunson is a smart move. Brunson's only two years older than Obi and he's a hell of a lot more refined and fills a hole on this team.

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In comment 15558929 bceagle05 said:

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the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating." Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

I just cant believe they are going to go all season without trading Simmons, and apparently Simmons will sit the entire year if he has to

In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said:

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Who says no?

Hopefully the Knicks. Jesus Christ.

When your coach throws you under the bus after a tough series loss, it can really shoot your confidence and make you super paranoid about being in that locker room. Doc really blew it.

In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers

I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

In comment 15558975 TheMick7 said:

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In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

Its going to cost you more in players than it would now to get Brunson

Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now?

What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

In comment 15558987 adamg said:

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Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap..

In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

In comment 15558993 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558987 adamg said: Quote: Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap? So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap.. In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

I see. So yeah, it behooves us to make the trade now. We can keep Fournier for a bigger deal down the road.

You get your Point guard for the next 8 to 10 years with hopefully your wing for the next 8 to 10 years in Rj...I am irrationaly optimistic on Reddish and think he can be your 3 for the next 8 to 10 years..

Brunson can score at all 3 levels, he can play on or off the ball, he can distribute and get guys open looks..He can break down a defense he is exactly what this team needs

He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year.

It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future.
Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson?
Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player.
Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

In comment 15559045 larryflower37 said:

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and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future. Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson? Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player. Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

Trade what exactly? DAL doesn't have room on their roster for four guys. I'd do Obi and the DAL first.

IQ maybe but less likely.

Mitch is playing his way into a second contract.

Obi is the weak link.

In comment 15559043 GGGGmen said:

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He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year. It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

Middle of the road PGs dont average 16 and 6 shooting 50% and he is playing next to a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot..

550 eFG% career and this year

and only 1.6 TO per game. Sign me up for middle of the road PG Jalen Brunson

but not the kind of player I'd want to trade a big package for. He's a good player but you need to pay him 20M per, so how is that worth a bunch of assets? I'm not sure he's a great asset to a team in the playoffs. He's a good fit for the Knicks' needs, but he's not an all star either. He's one of those players who makes the team better but also isn't the big star they need to get to a new level. They need to retain major assets for that guy when he's available.

and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5.

And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor.

I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I don't see much of a reason the Mavs would trade Brunson given they have title goals with Luka. I guess maybe the luxury tax but I think that would be doubtful. The best luck we might have is trading them back their first unlocks their ability to trade multiple picks in other deals.

And the Knicks are fine giving him $80 million, they’re both on the same page in terms of value.

In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said:

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and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope.

Sounds like horseshit to me.

A move that would be unwise and extremely unpopular

In comment 15559340 Heisenberg said:

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In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player. I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope.

you cant just sign him in FA Knicks dont have cap space

Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick

In comment 15559382 ajr2456 said:

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Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick

AJ you think it will happen?

In comment 15559405 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15559382 ajr2456 said: Quote: Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick AJ you think it will happen?

I’d put it at 50-50. A lot will depend on what other moves Dallas thinks they can make with the assets

In comment 15559352 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15559340 Heisenberg said: Quote: In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player. I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope. you cant just sign him in FA Knicks dont have cap space

We can manufacture cap space with fewer assets than are being talked about in this trade. Maybe I'm reading the value wrong, but I just don't see trading three significant assets for the right to pay Brunson 20 per as a good deal.

was Frank Ntilikina and for some of the same reasons:

1. Knicks homegrown
2. Flashy with one unusual skill. (Obi is running the floor and Frank was lateral defense.)
3. Both are good guys.

But the reasons both will never reach the fans hopes are similar too:

1. Neither can shoot, a really important NBA skill.
2.Neither gets to the line very often
3. Neither have a high basketball IQ

In comment 15559451 PhilSimms15 said:

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was Frank Ntilikina and for some of the same reasons: 1. Knicks homegrown 2. Flashy with one unusual skill. (Obi is running the floor and Frank was lateral defense.) 3. Both are good guys. But the reasons both will never reach the fans hopes are similar too: 1. Neither can shoot, a really important NBA skill. 2.Neither gets to the line very often 3. Neither have a high basketball IQ

I agree about Toppin being a bit overrated at this point. I mentioned before his offense isn't really polished. But in all fairness, Ntilikina got 22 MPG his rookie year and 2nd year. Toppin got 11 MPG his rookie year.

Toppin has better stats in limited minutes. I think it isn't necessarily overrating Toppin, it's more frustration him not getting more minutes to see what he can really do.

Kid looks ready now.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said:

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Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window )

A poodle?

In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said:

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Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window )

Rokas probably spends another season in Europe

Hope this works
Link - ( New Window )

Being dangled in possible deals?

In comment 15559532 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window ) Rokas probably spends another season in Europe

This. Rokas has highlight reel plays but if you look at his stats, he's not in the top 3 of his own team in any category, including points and assists, and he only plays 17 minutes a game, so it looks like he's not even a starter.
Barca stats - ( New Window )

In comment 15559545 UGADawgs7 said:

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Being dangled in possible deals?

not that i have heard or read

the season. Playing well for Barca to start off the bench. Getting more time with injuries and taking advantage and even closing games. Now he's the favorite to win Euroleague rising star award, which is a good deal.

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Tommy Beer @TommyBeer · Jan 14 EuroLeague Rising Star award winners over the last decade: Ricky Rubio (2010–11) Nikola Mirotić (2011–12 and 2012-13) Bogdan Bogdanović (2013–14 and 2014–15) Álex Abrines(2015–16) Luka Dončić(2017–18 and 2018–19) Goga Bitadze (2019–20 Usman Garuba (2020-21)

Not sure he's the Knicks next PG, but he definitely is looking like he'll be at least an NBA rotational player.

In comment 15559603 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 15559532 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window ) Rokas probably spends another season in Europe This. Rokas has highlight reel plays but if you look at his stats, he's not in the top 3 of his own team in any category, including points and assists, and he only plays 17 minutes a game, so it looks like he's not even a starter. Barca stats - ( New Window )

I wouldn’t put too much stock into that. Kids that young don’t usually get major minutes in the high European leagues unless they’re a legit superstar. It’s a different type of game over there.

in what way is it different? Not playing style per se, I understand that, but as relates to minutes?

In comment 15559658 Del Shofner said:

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in what way is it different? Not playing style per se, I understand that, but as relates to minutes?

Euroleague coaches coach to win their leagues and usually lean on 25+ year olds to do it. There's no incentive to them to invest in youth because there's no benefit to tanking (no draft) and if the young guy is good he goes to the NBA and the NBA gets the benefit. So traditionally, coaches don't play young guys like they might here. A young guy has to play well and help the team win or they don't get in.

Barca is a powerhouse in Europe so him getting PT there in important minutes on a team with big aspirations is a good sign.

1. I disagree that Obi can't create his own shot. He has gotten much better at putting the ball on the floor and finishing in traffic at the rim this season. I do agree we overate him, but comparing him to Frank is borderline criminal.
2. Good point on Rokas and Euro ball. 18-19 year olds don't play big minutes there. Luca was a freak. Unless I'm wrong Porzi played similar minutes to Rokas when he was 18.

Plus a lot of old guard politics.

Don't Simmons' mental health issues stem from his sister being sexually abused by their step brother?

& I'm not 100% buying the mental health issue thing either. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I think Simmons would be playing tomorrow if he was traded. & if that's true, that's a horrible look on Simmons' part. Mental health is a serious issue; he shouldn't be using it as a facade not to join the team, if that's the case.