NFT: Knicks asshat stuff

dont think Randle will be in any deals..

I'm not a huge fan of Fox, from all I've seen.

& I hope we move Randle.

And what the hell is going on with IQ? He has been God awful of late.

In comment 15558298 nygiants16 said:

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dont think Randle will be in any deals..

Randle not being in any deals because the knicks want to keep him or teams just don't want him and his contract?

Rosters are set so it’s tough for teams to add three guys at once. I suspect that’s more likely in the summer.

In comment 15558302 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I'm not a huge fan of Fox, from all I've seen. & I hope we move Randle. And what the hell is going on with IQ? He has been God awful of late.

I dont know but it seems his name and Toppins name are leading the packages being offered around draft picks..

Teams want Grimes but the Knicks are trying to keep him

In comment 15558305 bceagle05 said:

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Rosters are set so it’s tough for teams to add three guys at once. I suspect that’s more likely in the summer.

yeah most likely would include 2 players that can be cut

Keep Obi.

Or Brunson.
This is a different team when Rose and Kemba are healthy.
Rose has been very patient and I hope it Carries over to this deadline

I'd move Randle. I think '20-'21 was his peak season.

In comment 15558315 robbieballs2003 said:

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Keep Obi.

How I feel too, Haha.

& imagine us thinking this 9 months ago?

In comment 15558316 larryflower37 said:

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Or Brunson. This is a different team when Rose and Kemba are healthy. Rose has been very patient and I hope it Carries over to this deadline

Kemba will never be healthy for any stretch of time. Rose’s minutes have to limited to keep him off the injured list. They need a PG who can play significant minutes.

In comment 15558322 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 15558315 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Keep Obi. How I feel too, Haha. & imagine us thinking this 9 months ago?

I can't speak for you but I was pretty close to this last year.

In comment 15558316 larryflower37 said:

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Or Brunson. This is a different team when Rose and Kemba are healthy. Rose has been very patient and I hope it Carries over to this deadline

Eventually you have to start making big moves, you cant just be patient forever..

Yeah team is different with Rose and Kemba playing healthy but guess what they are older and not healthy..

Brunson and Fox are 25 and would change the starters

I was sorta down on JR after ATL series, but he was a beast all season & I chalked it up to nerves or whatever. But he's regressed & I hated the 'thumbs down' thing...so fucking stupid.

In comment 15558336 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I was sorta down on JR after ATL series, but he was a beast all season & I chalked it up to nerves or whatever. But he's regressed & I hated the 'thumbs down' thing...so fucking stupid.

Mine is more that I have been on the Obi bandwagon for awhile and 9 months ago I was calling for him to be playing way more than he was. And what Thibs is doing now is just fuckin criminal.

but days like today make it difficult. Couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger on defense and had Miles Bridges looking like Lebron.

the info 16.

It is why i think Obi will be moved, You dont play a guy who has played well in limited minutes 10 minutes a game regardless of how he is playing..

and dont give me he is a 2nd year player and Thibs doesnt play young guys, Rj is 2nd on the team in minutes, mitch plays 30 a night, Grimes is playing more and more and Quickley finishes a lot of games

In comment 15558341 Mike from SI said:

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the info 16.

no problem

In comment 15558336 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I was sorta down on JR after ATL series, but he was a beast all season & I chalked it up to nerves or whatever. But he's regressed & I hated the 'thumbs down' thing...so fucking stupid.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I honestly think the thumbs down thing was the beginning of the end.. NY fans are a fickle bunch with long memories. They aren’t going to let him ever forget it. The only thing that could change that is winning and this team isn’t good enough to win enough to win the fans back 100%. His body language has also sucked all season. He seems disinterested and disengaged far too often. Something is up with him and it’s affecting his play.

In comment 15558343 nygiants16 said:

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It is why i think Obi will be moved, You dont play a guy who has played well in limited minutes 10 minutes a game regardless of how he is playing.. and dont give me he is a 2nd year player and Thibs doesnt play young guys, Rj is 2nd on the team in minutes, mitch plays 30 a night, Grimes is playing more and more and Quickley finishes a lot of games

Those players don’t have JR ahead of them. Thibs is stubborn and when he decides he has a man crush on someone he’s going to ride them like a rented mule. Thibs is incredibly loyal to JR

As I said on another Knicks thread, no athlete is going to win a battle with the fans. Yes, in the grand scheme of thing, the thumbs down gesture is small potatoes, but no Knick fan is going to forget that & will throw it back in his face whenever he has a bad game or stretch.

& he's looked disengaged a lot this season.

To me, JR has never been the true 1 on a championship team. He's a 2 or, at worst, a 3.

In comment 15558350 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 15558343 nygiants16 said: Quote: It is why i think Obi will be moved, You dont play a guy who has played well in limited minutes 10 minutes a game regardless of how he is playing.. and dont give me he is a 2nd year player and Thibs doesnt play young guys, Rj is 2nd on the team in minutes, mitch plays 30 a night, Grimes is playing more and more and Quickley finishes a lot of games Those players don’t have JR ahead of them. Thibs is stubborn and when he decides he has a man crush on someone he’s going to ride them like a rented mule. Thibs is incredibly loyal to JR

You can find 20 minutes a night if you want to..

Thibs is stubborn but he isnt stupid, if he feels a guy is going to help him win he is going tk find minutes for that guy..

Thanks for this info.

Caught a lot of Bulls-Grizz; Chicago looks like a mess without LaVine.

In comment 15558352 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558350 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 15558343 nygiants16 said: Quote: It is why i think Obi will be moved, You dont play a guy who has played well in limited minutes 10 minutes a game regardless of how he is playing.. and dont give me he is a 2nd year player and Thibs doesnt play young guys, Rj is 2nd on the team in minutes, mitch plays 30 a night, Grimes is playing more and more and Quickley finishes a lot of games Those players don’t have JR ahead of them. Thibs is stubborn and when he decides he has a man crush on someone he’s going to ride them like a rented mule. Thibs is incredibly loyal to JR You can find 20 minutes a night if you want to.. Thibs is stubborn but he isnt stupid, if he feels a guy is going to help him win he is going tk find minutes for that guy..

That’s not necessarily completely true. Guys like Grimes, Deuce, etc only got their minutes and a chance to showcase themselves because of injuries. Otherwise we’d still have no idea if they could play. Thibs isn’t going to play Obi unless he absolutely has to. Randle has been durable so that chance at steady minutes hasn’t come. Nobody can succeed by getting 9 minutes per night. There’s too much of a tendency to press and try too hard

In comment 15558359 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 15558352 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15558350 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 15558343 nygiants16 said: Quote: It is why i think Obi will be moved, You dont play a guy who has played well in limited minutes 10 minutes a game regardless of how he is playing.. and dont give me he is a 2nd year player and Thibs doesnt play young guys, Rj is 2nd on the team in minutes, mitch plays 30 a night, Grimes is playing more and more and Quickley finishes a lot of games Those players don’t have JR ahead of them. Thibs is stubborn and when he decides he has a man crush on someone he’s going to ride them like a rented mule. Thibs is incredibly loyal to JR You can find 20 minutes a night if you want to.. Thibs is stubborn but he isnt stupid, if he feels a guy is going to help him win he is going tk find minutes for that guy.. That’s not necessarily completely true. Guys like Grimes, Deuce, etc only got their minutes and a chance to showcase themselves because of injuries. Otherwise we’d still have no idea if they could play. Thibs isn’t going to play Obi unless he absolutely has to. Randle has been durable so that chance at steady minutes hasn’t come. Nobody can succeed by getting 9 minutes per night. There’s too much of a tendency to press and try too hard

Grimes has been getting more and more minutes as the season has gone on and than capitilized on guys being out..

Obi has had good games when given 20 minutes, no reason he shouldnt be getting those 20 minutes every night

but its going to happen whether we like it or not, team needs a point guard and Knicks have a bunch of depth..

Who says no?

In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said:

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Who says no?

Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers

In comment 15558367 nygiants16 said:

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but its going to happen whether we like it or not, team needs a point guard and Knicks have a bunch of depth..

Oh I agree. And it’s unfortunate.

Apparently, Kings were trying to package Bagley with Hield but no takers so far. For Fox, to make the money work, wouldn't Fournier need to be involved? Of the young guys, Toppin would make the most sense as he's simply subbed in for relief of Randle. Maybe Quickly becomes more expendable, but you wouldn't want to lose two of their main three point shooters.

a deal for Brunson is a lot easier in season than Fox is because Knicks need to send out 4 for 1 unless its a 3 team deal..

Brunsons deal is small, you could do Obi and a 1st for Brunson and a filler pretty easily

In comment 15558367 nygiants16 said:

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but its going to happen whether we like it or not, team needs a point guard and Knicks have a bunch of depth..

Don't trade Obi. Trade JR.

In comment 15558387 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 15558367 nygiants16 said: Quote: but its going to happen whether we like it or not, team needs a point guard and Knicks have a bunch of depth.. Don't trade Obi. Trade JR.

They arent trading Randle unless its kn a huge deal or Randle asks out..

In comment 15558386 nygiants16 said:

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a deal for Brunson is a lot easier in season than Fox is because Knicks need to send out 4 for 1 unless its a 3 team deal.. Brunsons deal is small, you could do Obi and a 1st for Brunson and a filler pretty easily

What would be the reason for Dallas to move him now when he's clearly an important piece? Do they figure it's not worth offering him a new deal in the summer b/c of the cap?

In comment 15558390 EmpireWF said:

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In comment 15558386 nygiants16 said: Quote: a deal for Brunson is a lot easier in season than Fox is because Knicks need to send out 4 for 1 unless its a 3 team deal.. Brunsons deal is small, you could do Obi and a 1st for Brunson and a filler pretty easily What would be the reason for Dallas to move him now when he's clearly an important piece? Do they figure it's not worth offering him a new deal in the summer b/c of the cap?

They are pretty locked in with their team, they have KP and Doncic, just resigned Hardaway and Bullock was just signed..

Would be shocked if they then spent 18-20 million on a point guard when Doncic is best eith the ball in his hands

and represented by CAA and Leon Roses brother, the akbicks know what he wants and what Dallas is willing to offer

Would love if we could get Brunson. I believe he's from the area too, seeing that he went to 'Nova. He's what, 24?

Gibson 40 min a game if he could. I hope the front office doesn’t feel the same way he does. How Obi was used last year was sickening and the short leash he’s being given right now is annoying as hell. I don’t think Thibs will be here when the team is ready to make noises anyway. Trade Randle instead.

In comment 15558403 Jim in Hoboken said:

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Gibson 40 min a game if he could. I hope the front office doesn’t feel the same way he does. How Obi was used last year was sickening and the short leash he’s being given right now is annoying as hell. I don’t think Thibs will be here when the team is ready to make noises anyway. Trade Randle instead.

What are you talking about? Who said Thibs is dictating the roster? and he is the coach he plays who he feels is going to help the team win..

You do know Gibson plays zero minutes when everyone is healthy right?

Thibs coaches the team and the front office makes the mkves but bkth have to be in sync to make it work, so yes Thibs tells the front office what he thinks the tram needs, every coach in the nba does

that would want Randle and might be a participant in a 3-way trade.

If the Knicks aren't going to trade Randle, and it's certainly possible they have no intention of doing so, I'd really like to see him play fewer minutes and take fewer shots. I missed today's game but from the box score it looks like Obi did OK in his limited time, JR not so much.

Gotta learn to beat the zone too, though.

In comment 15558400 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Would love if we could get Brunson. I believe he's from the area too, seeing that he went to 'Nova. He's what, 24?

I loved the way his dad played for the Knicks...don't love the trouble he got into after his NBA career though..

In comment 15558400 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Would love if we could get Brunson. I believe he's from the area too, seeing that he went to 'Nova. He's what, 24?

The Brunsons are not from the area (Illinois, I think) but Jalen went to Nova and Rick now coaches in South Jersey.

In comment 15558422 moze1021 said:

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In comment 15558400 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Would love if we could get Brunson. I believe he's from the area too, seeing that he went to 'Nova. He's what, 24? I loved the way his dad played for the Knicks...don't love the trouble he got into after his NBA career though..

Yeah, Rick has had his problems for sure. Now coaches Camden High in south Jersey and is very successful at it. They're nationally ranked, and ranked #1 in NJ as well I believe.

He’s a poor shooter and a worse defense player (that’s why Thibs is not giving him minutes.).

Fans love him because he can jump and run and make fancy dunks. But that in and of itself doesn’t get a player time on a team with ambitions.

If the Knicks could trade Obi and the Dallas one for Brunson they’d be all over it. They don’t want to trade Grimes but at some point they have to realize that they will be nothing more than a .500 with either a superstar (no idea how’d they get that) or a good PG.

In comment 15558482 PhilSimms15 said:

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He’s a poor shooter and a worse defense player (that’s why Thibs is not giving him minutes.). Fans love him because he can jump and run and make fancy dunks. But that in and of itself doesn’t get a player time on a team with ambitions. If the Knicks could trade Obi and the Dallas one for Brunson they’d be all over it. They don’t want to trade Grimes but at some point they have to realize that they will be nothing more than a .500 with either a superstar (no idea how’d they get that) or a good PG.

That is just wrong. He has played great defense from the mid point of last year on.

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Link - ( New Window )

JR should be the one going out.
Link - ( New Window )

him out of town this year. Asking Thibs to play Obi more is hardly blasphemy. How many times have we complained when the second unit brings the team back, only to see Thibs adheres to his usual substitution pattern and brings back Randle despite how poorly he's played?

Obi has better PER, Plus/Minus, offensive/defensive ratings than Randle. Not saying he should be starting, but he needs to play more. And I wouldn't be in a hurry to trade him.

In comment 15558482 PhilSimms15 said:

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He’s a poor shooter and a worse defense player (that’s why Thibs is not giving him minutes.).

I don't agree, unless you're saying that Randle is even a worse shooter and a worse defense player. Look no further than today's box score. Randle shot 6-16 and was minus 22 in 31 minutes. Obi shot 5-8 and was plus 12 in 17 minutes. The case for Randle over Obi is weakening.

Obi does not have the lateral quickness to defend well; is not a lane protector, and can’t shoot.

Thibs wants to win. He is not finding time for Obi for a reason. (See above). Good chance Cam takes minutes from Obi once he learns the system.

None of this means Randle is so terrific. But Randle can open up the floor by shooting, has good court vision and showed last year he can defend.
Plus, he was just signed to a big contract.

Because of things down? Cmon man.

And if you wanna say Obi needs to play more, basically at the expense of Randle that’s fine, but know that Obi will probably never be as good as Randle. As fun a player as Obi is he’s still a work in progress. The guy wouldn’t start on many teams let alone this one.

when I see Obi make a move or just cut a certain way and I have STAT flashbacks..

to use different analytics to say he is better than Randle is not really fair..

Nobody gameplans for him, he isnt the number 1 option, he is not getting double teamed, he is tje 4th option off the bench let alone 1st or 2nd option on a team..

I like Obi and i think he has a role in this league but lets stop with the he is better than Randle, he is not even close..

What do you think would happen if Toppin was doubled on every possession like Randle is?

Randle isn't doubled on every possession. But what I do know is Obi moves the ball. We can blame others and say we need a PG but look what happened when Rose became the starting PG. Nothing. The common denominator with our offense sucking and digging huge holes in either the first or third quarters is Randle. We can't blame Payton anymore.

In comment 15558597 robbieballs2003 said:

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Randle isn't doubled on every possession. But what I do know is Obi moves the ball. We can blame others and say we need a PG but look what happened when Rose became the starting PG. Nothing. The common denominator with our offense sucking and digging huge holes in either the first or third quarters is Randle. We can't blame Payton anymore.

Yes because Randle was the only one playing bad when the team was struggiling..

and yes Randle is doubled or the defense shifts to cut him off, how many times does Obi see that?..

I am not even against trading randle but i am not trading him just to trade him and start Obi

We know who Randle is. He has value so I would rather trade him and see a much more exciting offense with actual ball movement. I HATE watching our starters. It is fuckin brutal. I feel Randle is stunting the growth of our young guys. I want to see an offense that moves the shit out of the ball and makes opposing defenses work. We don't do that. I don't see that changing with Randle on this roster regardless of the PG.

As starting five
Obi and IQ and Rose and Gibson off bench

Randle and first rounder for Brunson

In comment 15558623 robbieballs2003 said:

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We know who Randle is. He has value so I would rather trade him and see a much more exciting offense with actual ball movement. I HATE watching our starters. It is fuckin brutal. I feel Randle is stunting the growth of our young guys. I want to see an offense that moves the shit out of the ball and makes opposing defenses work. We don't do that. I don't see that changing with Randle on this roster regardless of the PG.

You realize the starters have played better than the bench the past 10 games or so..

So the guy who averages 5 to 6 assists a game is stunting the growth of the young players?

You realize 90% of the teams in the NBA have 1 or 2 guys who control the ball and set up their teammates? It is mostly iso and pick and roll...

Having a bunch of good players moving the ball you arent winning shit, sorry not how the NBA works

so you hate the offense, if the ball ran through Rj or quickley you would be fine because you like them..

name the team that moves the ball on every possession to create offense

Yeah, down season so far. Unfortunately he's not actually as good as Nikola Jokic, which you might have thought after last season.

I can't reconcile wanting him out of town before the all star break.

The ball slows down and it affects every other player. The defense sucks and the shooting sucks. The more guys that touch it and get involved the better. You think 10 games makes up for the rest of the shit they're producing?

I don't agree with giving up on a 2nd year player that has done nothing but produce instead of a guy who we know who he is. You can disagree with me but stop trying to make is seem like I don't know what I am talking about. You are so dense some times. Keep complaining about the refs every game.

In comment 15558640 robbieballs2003 said:

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The ball slows down and it affects every other player. The defense sucks and the shooting sucks. The more guys that touch it and get involved the better. You think 10 games makes up for the rest of the shit they're producing? I don't agree with giving up on a 2nd year player that has done nothing but produce instead of a guy who we know who he is. You can disagree with me but stop trying to make is seem like I don't know what I am talking about. You are so dense some times. Keep complaining about the refs every game.

I am dense? Obi has done nothing but produce? seriously? he is shooting 20% from 3, if he doesnt dunk he is not scoring..

He is an exciting player but hr is not better than Randle and we shouldnt trade randle to start Obi..

You want the offense to run through someone else i get it, but on this team with rose and Kemba out Randle and Rj are the 2 best options..

in a package for a better player no problem do it..

But yes i would like to see Randle playing with a guy who is a number 1 pushing randle to be the 2nd or 3rd option

He's somewhere between the player he was in the regular season last year and what he is this season. Before 2021 we would have said we know what randle is too. And we would've been wrong.

Everyone wanted to see what the team looked like without Randle on the floor and we got a taste of that when he was out for protocols. So, he matters.

Offense is still going to run through someone, it could be Rj or a point guard but the offense is not just going to all of sudden move because you get rid of randle..

If its a guard it doesnt make it less iso..

Randle is a much better offensive player. Obi has a really limited half court game and Randle is a three level scorer.

Warts and all, Randle is still the Knicks best player and it's not particularly close.

is either for Simmons or in a 3 way where simmons goes to sacramento, fox to Knicks and Randle to Sixers..

but thats if Sixers want Randle..

I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively.

I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat.

NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around.

In comment 15558852 Pete44 said:

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I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively. I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat. NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around.

Friend that used to work for Boston, has some friends around the league gives me some Knicks stuff if he hears anything, but its not from the Knicks..

its your typical "league sources" lol

In comment 15558857 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558852 Pete44 said: Quote: I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively. I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat. NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around. Friend that used to work for Boston, has some friends around the league gives me some Knicks stuff if he hears anything, but its not from the Knicks.. its your typical "league sources" lol

Good stuff much appreciated! The team has been so frustrating this season.

I still think it's too early to trade Randle unless it's for a better player, like in Simmons deal or something similar.

I would love to see how this offense looks with a real point guard, maybe they make a trade for Brunson before the deadline and we can see how things look with him running the show. Randle absolutely is a big threat offensively, you can see that by the amount of attention he attracts from opposing defenses, but I would love to see how he operates without having to be the primary facilitator and just being able to pick his spots, hit the open man when he is doubled, and not feel the need to press the issue. Maybe that is wishful thinking, and he is going to dominate the ball either way, but I would at least like to get the chance to see it first.

There has to be another trade coming. There just aren't enough minutes to go around between RJ, Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Rose, Walker, and Reddish once they are all healthy. I wouldn't be shocked to see Quickley, Grimes, Burks, Walker or Fournier on the move before the end of the year. I don't think there is any chance Barrett is traded, Rose is too much of a Thibs guy, and I think they hang on to Reddish to see what they have with him first. Toppin is the other guy that is likely to be moved at some point. Just doesn't seem like they are all that interested to find minutes for him, and if he is not going to play then his value just starts to decline the longer you hold onto him.

Should be an interesting next few weeks as we get closer to the deadline.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

if the Knicks didnt make a move to consolidate some of the depth, especially with the Reddish deal..

Not saying Reddish is deserving to start or play 35 minutes BUT ot was well known he wasnt happy about his role, you dont trade for him to put him in the same role and same minutes..

I also wouldnt be shocked if the Knicks take a swing at the deadline.

the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating."

Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

He's our best player. He should be the number option though. That should always be RJ.

I would like to see JR be a lot more confident in his shooting though. He passes up way too many open look threes. We need him to be 10x more aggressive and decisive. And we need to see him in more of a facilitator kind of role rather than playing ISO Randle.

He's our best rebounder, our best screen setter, and he's among the best disher on the team. I'm not moving him for Brunson. We would be crazy to include him in a deal like that, and DAL would jump all over it.

Imo Kemba, Fournier, IQ, and Obi are the fungible pieces on the team right now. I wouldn't look to move them unless I'm getting something good. But I wouldn't hold on to any of them too tightly.

Obi is fun to watch, but he is very limited right now. He can't create his own shot and he's already 23. I think we overrate our own guys. Trading Obi and pick for a legit starting PG like Brunson is a smart move. Brunson's only two years older than Obi and he's a hell of a lot more refined and fills a hole on this team.

.

In comment 15558929 bceagle05 said:

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the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating." Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

I just cant believe they are going to go all season without trading Simmons, and apparently Simmons will sit the entire year if he has to

In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said:

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Who says no?

Hopefully the Knicks. Jesus Christ.

When your coach throws you under the bus after a tough series loss, it can really shoot your confidence and make you super paranoid about being in that locker room. Doc really blew it.

In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers

I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

In comment 15558975 TheMick7 said:

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In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

Its going to cost you more in players than it would now to get Brunson

Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now?

What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

In comment 15558987 adamg said:

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Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap..

In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

In comment 15558993 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558987 adamg said: Quote: Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap? So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap.. In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

I see. So yeah, it behooves us to make the trade now. We can keep Fournier for a bigger deal down the road.

You get your Point guard for the next 8 to 10 years with hopefully your wing for the next 8 to 10 years in Rj...I am irrationaly optimistic on Reddish and think he can be your 3 for the next 8 to 10 years..

Brunson can score at all 3 levels, he can play on or off the ball, he can distribute and get guys open looks..He can break down a defense he is exactly what this team needs

He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year.

It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future.
Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson?
Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player.
Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

In comment 15559045 larryflower37 said:

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and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future. Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson? Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player. Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

Trade what exactly? DAL doesn't have room on their roster for four guys. I'd do Obi and the DAL first.

IQ maybe but less likely.

Mitch is playing his way into a second contract.

Obi is the weak link.

In comment 15559043 GGGGmen said:

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He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year. It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

Middle of the road PGs dont average 16 and 6 shooting 50% and he is playing next to a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot..

550 eFG% career and this year

and only 1.6 TO per game. Sign me up for middle of the road PG Jalen Brunson

but not the kind of player I'd want to trade a big package for. He's a good player but you need to pay him 20M per, so how is that worth a bunch of assets? I'm not sure he's a great asset to a team in the playoffs. He's a good fit for the Knicks' needs, but he's not an all star either. He's one of those players who makes the team better but also isn't the big star they need to get to a new level. They need to retain major assets for that guy when he's available.

and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5.

And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor.

I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I don't see much of a reason the Mavs would trade Brunson given they have title goals with Luka. I guess maybe the luxury tax but I think that would be doubtful. The best luck we might have is trading them back their first unlocks their ability to trade multiple picks in other deals.

And the Knicks are fine giving him $80 million, they’re both on the same page in terms of value.

In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said:

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and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope.

Sounds like horseshit to me.

A move that would be unwise and extremely unpopular

In comment 15559340 Heisenberg said:

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In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player. I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope.

you cant just sign him in FA Knicks dont have cap space

Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick

In comment 15559382 ajr2456 said:

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Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick

AJ you think it will happen?

In comment 15559405 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15559382 ajr2456 said: Quote: Trading for Brunson this year could get you into the playoffs, even if it’s just the play in. I think that’s worth the assets it’ll take, which i think ends up Obi and a player plus the Mavs pick AJ you think it will happen?

I’d put it at 50-50. A lot will depend on what other moves Dallas thinks they can make with the assets

In comment 15559352 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15559340 Heisenberg said: Quote: In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player. I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope. you cant just sign him in FA Knicks dont have cap space

We can manufacture cap space with fewer assets than are being talked about in this trade. Maybe I'm reading the value wrong, but I just don't see trading three significant assets for the right to pay Brunson 20 per as a good deal.

was Frank Ntilikina and for some of the same reasons:

1. Knicks homegrown
2. Flashy with one unusual skill. (Obi is running the floor and Frank was lateral defense.)
3. Both are good guys.

But the reasons both will never reach the fans hopes are similar too:

1. Neither can shoot, a really important NBA skill.
2.Neither gets to the line very often
3. Neither have a high basketball IQ

In comment 15559451 PhilSimms15 said:

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was Frank Ntilikina and for some of the same reasons: 1. Knicks homegrown 2. Flashy with one unusual skill. (Obi is running the floor and Frank was lateral defense.) 3. Both are good guys. But the reasons both will never reach the fans hopes are similar too: 1. Neither can shoot, a really important NBA skill. 2.Neither gets to the line very often 3. Neither have a high basketball IQ

I agree about Toppin being a bit overrated at this point. I mentioned before his offense isn't really polished. But in all fairness, Ntilikina got 22 MPG his rookie year and 2nd year. Toppin got 11 MPG his rookie year.

Toppin has better stats in limited minutes. I think it isn't necessarily overrating Toppin, it's more frustration him not getting more minutes to see what he can really do.

Kid looks ready now.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said:

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Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window )

A poodle?

In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said:

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Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window )

Rokas probably spends another season in Europe

Hope this works
Link - ( New Window )

Being dangled in possible deals?

In comment 15559532 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window ) Rokas probably spends another season in Europe

This. Rokas has highlight reel plays but if you look at his stats, he's not in the top 3 of his own team in any category, including points and assists, and he only plays 17 minutes a game, so it looks like he's not even a starter.
Barca stats - ( New Window )

In comment 15559545 UGADawgs7 said:

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Being dangled in possible deals?

not that i have heard or read

the season. Playing well for Barca to start off the bench. Getting more time with injuries and taking advantage and even closing games. Now he's the favorite to win Euroleague rising star award, which is a good deal.

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Tommy Beer @TommyBeer · Jan 14 EuroLeague Rising Star award winners over the last decade: Ricky Rubio (2010–11) Nikola Mirotić (2011–12 and 2012-13) Bogdan Bogdanović (2013–14 and 2014–15) Álex Abrines(2015–16) Luka Dončić(2017–18 and 2018–19) Goga Bitadze (2019–20 Usman Garuba (2020-21)

Not sure he's the Knicks next PG, but he definitely is looking like he'll be at least an NBA rotational player.

In comment 15559603 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 15559532 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 15559515 PhilSimms15 said: Quote: Kid looks ready now. Link - ( New Window ) Rokas probably spends another season in Europe This. Rokas has highlight reel plays but if you look at his stats, he's not in the top 3 of his own team in any category, including points and assists, and he only plays 17 minutes a game, so it looks like he's not even a starter. Barca stats - ( New Window )

I wouldn’t put too much stock into that. Kids that young don’t usually get major minutes in the high European leagues unless they’re a legit superstar. It’s a different type of game over there.

in what way is it different? Not playing style per se, I understand that, but as relates to minutes?

In comment 15559658 Del Shofner said:

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in what way is it different? Not playing style per se, I understand that, but as relates to minutes?

Euroleague coaches coach to win their leagues and usually lean on 25+ year olds to do it. There's no incentive to them to invest in youth because there's no benefit to tanking (no draft) and if the young guy is good he goes to the NBA and the NBA gets the benefit. So traditionally, coaches don't play young guys like they might here. A young guy has to play well and help the team win or they don't get in.

Barca is a powerhouse in Europe so him getting PT there in important minutes on a team with big aspirations is a good sign.

1. I disagree that Obi can't create his own shot. He has gotten much better at putting the ball on the floor and finishing in traffic at the rim this season. I do agree we overate him, but comparing him to Frank is borderline criminal.
2. Good point on Rokas and Euro ball. 18-19 year olds don't play big minutes there. Luca was a freak. Unless I'm wrong Porzi played similar minutes to Rokas when he was 18.

Plus a lot of old guard politics.

Don't Simmons' mental health issues stem from his sister being sexually abused by their step brother?

& I'm not 100% buying the mental health issue thing either. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I think Simmons would be playing tomorrow if he was traded. & if that's true, that's a horrible look on Simmons' part. Mental health is a serious issue; he shouldn't be using it as a facade not to join the team, if that's the case.