NFT: Knicks asshat stuff

Obi does not have the lateral quickness to defend well; is not a lane protector, and can’t shoot.

Thibs wants to win. He is not finding time for Obi for a reason. (See above). Good chance Cam takes minutes from Obi once he learns the system.

None of this means Randle is so terrific. But Randle can open up the floor by shooting, has good court vision and showed last year he can defend.
Plus, he was just signed to a big contract.

Because of things down? Cmon man.

And if you wanna say Obi needs to play more, basically at the expense of Randle that’s fine, but know that Obi will probably never be as good as Randle. As fun a player as Obi is he’s still a work in progress. The guy wouldn’t start on many teams let alone this one.

when I see Obi make a move or just cut a certain way and I have STAT flashbacks..

to use different analytics to say he is better than Randle is not really fair..

Nobody gameplans for him, he isnt the number 1 option, he is not getting double teamed, he is tje 4th option off the bench let alone 1st or 2nd option on a team..

I like Obi and i think he has a role in this league but lets stop with the he is better than Randle, he is not even close..

What do you think would happen if Toppin was doubled on every possession like Randle is?

Randle isn't doubled on every possession. But what I do know is Obi moves the ball. We can blame others and say we need a PG but look what happened when Rose became the starting PG. Nothing. The common denominator with our offense sucking and digging huge holes in either the first or third quarters is Randle. We can't blame Payton anymore.

In comment 15558597 robbieballs2003 said:

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Randle isn't doubled on every possession. But what I do know is Obi moves the ball. We can blame others and say we need a PG but look what happened when Rose became the starting PG. Nothing. The common denominator with our offense sucking and digging huge holes in either the first or third quarters is Randle. We can't blame Payton anymore.

Yes because Randle was the only one playing bad when the team was struggiling..

and yes Randle is doubled or the defense shifts to cut him off, how many times does Obi see that?..

I am not even against trading randle but i am not trading him just to trade him and start Obi

We know who Randle is. He has value so I would rather trade him and see a much more exciting offense with actual ball movement. I HATE watching our starters. It is fuckin brutal. I feel Randle is stunting the growth of our young guys. I want to see an offense that moves the shit out of the ball and makes opposing defenses work. We don't do that. I don't see that changing with Randle on this roster regardless of the PG.

As starting five
Obi and IQ and Rose and Gibson off bench

Randle and first rounder for Brunson

In comment 15558623 robbieballs2003 said:

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We know who Randle is. He has value so I would rather trade him and see a much more exciting offense with actual ball movement. I HATE watching our starters. It is fuckin brutal. I feel Randle is stunting the growth of our young guys. I want to see an offense that moves the shit out of the ball and makes opposing defenses work. We don't do that. I don't see that changing with Randle on this roster regardless of the PG.

You realize the starters have played better than the bench the past 10 games or so..

So the guy who averages 5 to 6 assists a game is stunting the growth of the young players?

You realize 90% of the teams in the NBA have 1 or 2 guys who control the ball and set up their teammates? It is mostly iso and pick and roll...

Having a bunch of good players moving the ball you arent winning shit, sorry not how the NBA works

so you hate the offense, if the ball ran through Rj or quickley you would be fine because you like them..

name the team that moves the ball on every possession to create offense

Yeah, down season so far. Unfortunately he's not actually as good as Nikola Jokic, which you might have thought after last season.

I can't reconcile wanting him out of town before the all star break.

The ball slows down and it affects every other player. The defense sucks and the shooting sucks. The more guys that touch it and get involved the better. You think 10 games makes up for the rest of the shit they're producing?

I don't agree with giving up on a 2nd year player that has done nothing but produce instead of a guy who we know who he is. You can disagree with me but stop trying to make is seem like I don't know what I am talking about. You are so dense some times. Keep complaining about the refs every game.

In comment 15558640 robbieballs2003 said:

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The ball slows down and it affects every other player. The defense sucks and the shooting sucks. The more guys that touch it and get involved the better. You think 10 games makes up for the rest of the shit they're producing? I don't agree with giving up on a 2nd year player that has done nothing but produce instead of a guy who we know who he is. You can disagree with me but stop trying to make is seem like I don't know what I am talking about. You are so dense some times. Keep complaining about the refs every game.

I am dense? Obi has done nothing but produce? seriously? he is shooting 20% from 3, if he doesnt dunk he is not scoring..

He is an exciting player but hr is not better than Randle and we shouldnt trade randle to start Obi..

You want the offense to run through someone else i get it, but on this team with rose and Kemba out Randle and Rj are the 2 best options..

in a package for a better player no problem do it..

But yes i would like to see Randle playing with a guy who is a number 1 pushing randle to be the 2nd or 3rd option

He's somewhere between the player he was in the regular season last year and what he is this season. Before 2021 we would have said we know what randle is too. And we would've been wrong.

Everyone wanted to see what the team looked like without Randle on the floor and we got a taste of that when he was out for protocols. So, he matters.

Offense is still going to run through someone, it could be Rj or a point guard but the offense is not just going to all of sudden move because you get rid of randle..

If its a guard it doesnt make it less iso..

Randle is a much better offensive player. Obi has a really limited half court game and Randle is a three level scorer.

Warts and all, Randle is still the Knicks best player and it's not particularly close.

is either for Simmons or in a 3 way where simmons goes to sacramento, fox to Knicks and Randle to Sixers..

but thats if Sixers want Randle..

I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively.

I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat.

NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around.

In comment 15558852 Pete44 said:

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I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively. I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat. NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around.

Friend that used to work for Boston, has some friends around the league gives me some Knicks stuff if he hears anything, but its not from the Knicks..

its your typical "league sources" lol

In comment 15558857 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558852 Pete44 said: Quote: I'm not the biggest Randle fan out there, but his value is that he draws double teams, without him, they struggle even more offensively. I have not idea why he seems so unhappy this season and his effort on defense is down, but as much as I would love to trade him, you can't without getting another real scoring threat. NYG - thanks for your info, what is your source on this or did you just gather this intel from reading around. Friend that used to work for Boston, has some friends around the league gives me some Knicks stuff if he hears anything, but its not from the Knicks.. its your typical "league sources" lol

Good stuff much appreciated! The team has been so frustrating this season.

I still think it's too early to trade Randle unless it's for a better player, like in Simmons deal or something similar.

I would love to see how this offense looks with a real point guard, maybe they make a trade for Brunson before the deadline and we can see how things look with him running the show. Randle absolutely is a big threat offensively, you can see that by the amount of attention he attracts from opposing defenses, but I would love to see how he operates without having to be the primary facilitator and just being able to pick his spots, hit the open man when he is doubled, and not feel the need to press the issue. Maybe that is wishful thinking, and he is going to dominate the ball either way, but I would at least like to get the chance to see it first.

There has to be another trade coming. There just aren't enough minutes to go around between RJ, Fournier, Quickley, Burks, Grimes, Rose, Walker, and Reddish once they are all healthy. I wouldn't be shocked to see Quickley, Grimes, Burks, Walker or Fournier on the move before the end of the year. I don't think there is any chance Barrett is traded, Rose is too much of a Thibs guy, and I think they hang on to Reddish to see what they have with him first. Toppin is the other guy that is likely to be moved at some point. Just doesn't seem like they are all that interested to find minutes for him, and if he is not going to play then his value just starts to decline the longer you hold onto him.

Should be an interesting next few weeks as we get closer to the deadline.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

I’m only trading young assets and picks if we are getting a legit top 15 guy. None are a available right now. Fox is not a star and at this point is he going to get much better? This is his 5th year and still can’t shoot from the outside and shoots in the low 70s from the free throw line. I think 5 years is enough to understand he is what he is. I’m sure a winning situation can improve things, but I’m not trading away all of our assets for him.

Beal isn’t available and Lillard is one year older next year. I don’t want James Harden, but he will be available at no trading cost next year other than freeing up cap space, but that should be manageable.

Jalen Brunson is a nice player, but def not going to be a star, do we want to pay him $100 million and then we are locked into him Randle and eventually RJ with none of those guys being more than a low end 2 at best on a championship team.

At this point we are who we are, keep cap flexibility, take small risks like the cam reddish trade and hope for high reward. Make good picks in the draft or trade picks back for future years if you don’t like the options. I don’t mind missing the playoffs this year and hoping for some lottery luck. Another thing I liked about the reddish trade is that knox is year further into his contract then reddish so we get another year and a half with reddish. I’m one who thinks knox can eventually be a decent nba player down the road, but wasn’t willing to pay him after this year.

if the Knicks didnt make a move to consolidate some of the depth, especially with the Reddish deal..

Not saying Reddish is deserving to start or play 35 minutes BUT ot was well known he wasnt happy about his role, you dont trade for him to put him in the same role and same minutes..

I also wouldnt be shocked if the Knicks take a swing at the deadline.

the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating."

Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

He's our best player. He should be the number option though. That should always be RJ.

I would like to see JR be a lot more confident in his shooting though. He passes up way too many open look threes. We need him to be 10x more aggressive and decisive. And we need to see him in more of a facilitator kind of role rather than playing ISO Randle.

He's our best rebounder, our best screen setter, and he's among the best disher on the team. I'm not moving him for Brunson. We would be crazy to include him in a deal like that, and DAL would jump all over it.

Imo Kemba, Fournier, IQ, and Obi are the fungible pieces on the team right now. I wouldn't look to move them unless I'm getting something good. But I wouldn't hold on to any of them too tightly.

Obi is fun to watch, but he is very limited right now. He can't create his own shot and he's already 23. I think we overrate our own guys. Trading Obi and pick for a legit starting PG like Brunson is a smart move. Brunson's only two years older than Obi and he's a hell of a lot more refined and fills a hole on this team.

.

In comment 15558929 bceagle05 said:

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the Sixers still have their eyes on James Harden - they might keep Simmons on the roster through the end of the season and try to send him to Brooklyn in a sign-and-trade. Harden is "open to relocating." Kyrie also reiterated he's not getting vaccinated.

I just cant believe they are going to go all season without trading Simmons, and apparently Simmons will sit the entire year if he has to

In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said:

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Who says no?

Hopefully the Knicks. Jesus Christ.

When your coach throws you under the bus after a tough series loss, it can really shoot your confidence and make you super paranoid about being in that locker room. Doc really blew it.

In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers

I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

In comment 15558975 TheMick7 said:

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In comment 15558372 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15558370 Del Shofner said: Quote: Who says no? Dallas and they would have to send out 19 million in fillers I do! Brunson will be an FA at the end of the season & his addition is not going to win the NBA championship,so they can wait,if he is their choice,until the summer. I like Brunson, but if you're going to move players & draft picks, I'd rather trade for Fox. He can be a difference maker on this Knicks team, whereas Brunson would be a solid edition, but not the change this team needs to move it to the next level!

Its going to cost you more in players than it would now to get Brunson

Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now?

What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

In comment 15558987 adamg said:

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Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap?

So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap..

In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

In comment 15558993 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15558987 adamg said: Quote: Will we have the cap space to re-sign Brunson in the offseason if we trade for him now? What is the biggest difference in doing a sign and trade in the offseason? Cost? What happens to the cap? So right now you only have to trade 1.8 million to match Brunson and then you have his Bird rights and go over the cap.. In the offseason, lets say he wants 18 million a year, you habe to send out 18 million in salary..maybe you dont have to give a first maybe

I see. So yeah, it behooves us to make the trade now. We can keep Fournier for a bigger deal down the road.

You get your Point guard for the next 8 to 10 years with hopefully your wing for the next 8 to 10 years in Rj...I am irrationaly optimistic on Reddish and think he can be your 3 for the next 8 to 10 years..

Brunson can score at all 3 levels, he can play on or off the ball, he can distribute and get guys open looks..He can break down a defense he is exactly what this team needs

He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year.

It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future.
Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson?
Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player.
Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

In comment 15559045 larryflower37 said:

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and it should be a deal on the cheap side and the knicks are the best fit for him from the playing time and as a fit for the future. Would you Trade Quickley, Obi, Mitch, or Grimes and a 2nd for Brunson? Can't see a young player and a 1 is too steep for an expiring player. Hopefully, Brunson is telling the Mavs where he wants to go since he has the resigning leverage.

Trade what exactly? DAL doesn't have room on their roster for four guys. I'd do Obi and the DAL first.

IQ maybe but less likely.

Mitch is playing his way into a second contract.

Obi is the weak link.

In comment 15559043 GGGGmen said:

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He's not taking us to the next level and I'm not crazy about giving him 20M a year. It's pie in the sky but I'd call OKC and give them anything they want for SGA.

Middle of the road PGs dont average 16 and 6 shooting 50% and he is playing next to a guy that has the ball in his hands a lot..

550 eFG% career and this year

and only 1.6 TO per game. Sign me up for middle of the road PG Jalen Brunson

but not the kind of player I'd want to trade a big package for. He's a good player but you need to pay him 20M per, so how is that worth a bunch of assets? I'm not sure he's a great asset to a team in the playoffs. He's a good fit for the Knicks' needs, but he's not an all star either. He's one of those players who makes the team better but also isn't the big star they need to get to a new level. They need to retain major assets for that guy when he's available.

and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5.

And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor.

I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I don't see much of a reason the Mavs would trade Brunson given they have title goals with Luka. I guess maybe the luxury tax but I think that would be doubtful. The best luck we might have is trading them back their first unlocks their ability to trade multiple picks in other deals.

And the Knicks are fine giving him $80 million, they’re both on the same page in terms of value.

In comment 15559240 PhilSimms15 said:

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and probably the best shot the Knicks have of acquiring a top PG. Yes, SGA might be better but the Thunder are not trading him. And you can name another handful of better PG -- but after that first tier of 8-10, Brunson is in the next 5. And the Knicks biggest problem is no PG. You saw it yesterday when no one was organizing the offense; the team was confounded by the zone and there was no leader on the floor. I'd def give up Obi, the Dallas first and the Mavs choice of IQ or Grimes. And anything less won't get a deal done. I'm not even sure the Mavs would "settle" for that package as they perceive him as their second best player.

I am not as high on Brunson as that. Obi, IQ/Grimes and a first for a guy we can sign in FA? Nope.

Sounds like horseshit to me.

A move that would be unwise and extremely unpopular