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Duggan has article on NYG dysfunction.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/18/2022 8:35 am
I can't link it, but worth a read for The Athletic subscribers here.
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RE: Lost me when liking guns is used to discredit Toney  
japanhead : 1/18/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15559123 CV36 said:
Quote:
One of the dumbest things I’ve heard.


gun-like aside, toney has been a huge disappointment. he missed a ton of games and the best game he had (first loss to dallas), he was ejected from.
RE: jesus christ that was a depressing read.  
Optimus-NY : 1/18/2022 11:25 am : link
In comment 15558934 japanhead said:
Quote:
sounds as if john mara doesn't even recognize that his brother and nephew being in prominent player personnel positions is a problem from an accountability standpoint.

also, with regard to mara not overriding a GMs draft choice unless there's a character issue.. what does that mean? did john mara overrule reese, who wanted tunsil and draft eli apple instead? what about parsons this past draft?

what a mess. a team run by these bunch of out-of-touch silver spoons who hide behind the disjointed org structure to dodge accountability for terrible decision-making is a hard model to respect.

as one quoted says, at least in dallas jerry and his son make it clear they run the show. conversely, the giants set up pasties and fall guys and ruin career after career as they continue their unabated meddling.

sickening really.


Agreed.
.  
MOOPS : 1/18/2022 11:28 am : link
"Chris doesn’t go on the road to scout college games during the fall. His in-person scouting is typically limited to postseason all-star games, the scouting combine and college pro days..."

I guess this explains why we drafted the MVP of the Senior Bowl three years in a row, Webb, Lauletta and Jones.
RE: RE: Mike as I saw I agree with you about all your saying  
Essex : 1/18/2022 11:29 am : link
In comment 15559118 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15559103 Essex said:


Quote:


however, I do think we should wait until the New GM is hired. Obviously, any candidate worth anything, is going to address the family dynamic in the meeting. Obviously, it makes it harder to do with Chris being in the meetings, but I do think we should see what happens when they hire a new person. If Chris is still head of PP, then we have a big problem. But, I am betting guys like Schoen and Hortiz who will probably get a GM eventually are going to be careful about what they get themselves into and I think ownership realizes that if word spread that they lost desired candidates because of family influence below the GM position, that will be a PR Nightmare. So, let's just see what happens.



I am happy to wait and see what happens. If they hire a GM an announce a change in the personnel department and that Chris Mara and McDonnell will no longer be there, that is certainly addressing the problem. I will laud that decision if it is made.

But I am guessing none of the GM candidates walked into the interview with John and Chris Mara and announced part of his plan to overhaul the talent was to move Chris out, and Chris said "Gee, I really like that! We should hire this guy!"

Without those changes, this isn't a housecleaning. It is bringing in some different voices.

I agree with you. Perception is reality and even if they don't meddle or use their undue influence--it still exists. If they are still there, it's a problem going forward. I am skeptical that the Mara's will fix the problem, I even think, as I said earlier, that they think Chris especially and Tim to lesser degree have been hampered by their family ties ("earned their stripes"), but I also think, as others have pointed out, that Mara gets the criticism and the really bad PR that goes with it, Tisch is more involved and fed up, and there is at least reason to think that change may come. We will find out soon enough.
McAdoo started Geno over Webb  
JonC : 1/18/2022 11:29 am : link
because he felt the former was his best shot and it would also show their overall QB options were poor as Eli declined. McAdoo was not wrong, he just had a really poor hand to try and force the issue, and got sideswiped basically by a chunk of the fanbase (and Mara) who couldn't see or admit Eli was toast.
RE: RE: Lost me when liking guns is used to discredit Toney  
CV36 : 1/18/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15559135 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15559123 CV36 said:


Quote:


One of the dumbest things I’ve heard.



gun-like aside, toney has been a huge disappointment. he missed a ton of games and the best game he had (first loss to dallas), he was ejected from.


Can’t argue that. He seemed to be an issue before he ever showed up to camp.
RE: Mike as I saw I agree with you about all your saying  
Bill in UT : 1/18/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15559103 Essex said:
Quote:
however, I do think we should wait until the New GM is hired. Obviously, any candidate worth anything, is going to address the family dynamic in the meeting. Obviously, it makes it harder to do with Chris being in the meetings,


I think it might be better having Chris in the meetings. It'll show what kind of balls the GM has and he'll get a no BS answer without anything being filtered.
RE: .  
cjac : 1/18/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15559146 MOOPS said:
Quote:
"Chris doesn’t go on the road to scout college games during the fall. His in-person scouting is typically limited to postseason all-star games, the scouting combine and college pro days..."

I guess this explains why we drafted the MVP of the Senior Bowl three years in a row, Webb, Lauletta and Jones.


I’m shocked Kellen Mond isn’t on our roster
RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15559114 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We're all going to "see what happens". But if you can't take fans rightly being critical of ownership in the meantime, you might want to rethink coming out of your annual hiatus.

The Maras don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and they're not going to get it.


Please don’t lecture me on what to be critical of. I’ve seen it all and have been strongly critical when necessary. I’m far from happy with what has transpired the last 10 years, but I don’t have to harp on it with the same posts in every thread over and over and over again. NO ONE is happy with what has transpired. I get through it by being a luckier fan than fans of most franchises who have not tasted nearly the success we have tasted since 1986..I will NOT let the crap of the last 10 years bring me down in light of that.

A brief history of joy and angst:

1956-1963. Pure joy with 6 championship games albeit one championship

1964-1980- Agony and disgust at zero playoff appearances.

1981-1990-Mostly nirvana/pure gold

1991-1999-Mostly dreadful dreck trotted out

2000-2003-An embarassing SB display but at least we got there and then meltdowns, injuries and disarray. I was very critical of the Fassel era, rightly or wrongly

2004-2011-Modern golden era with Eli and TC. Mostly elation for me.

2012-present-Quagmire

2022-Hope with a new regime NOT PROMOTED from within..

RE: RE: BB56  
Go Terps : 1/18/2022 11:36 am : link
In comment 15559163 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15559114 Go Terps said:


Quote:


We're all going to "see what happens". But if you can't take fans rightly being critical of ownership in the meantime, you might want to rethink coming out of your annual hiatus.

The Maras don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and they're not going to get it.



Please don’t lecture me on what to be critical of. I’ve seen it all and have been strongly critical when necessary. I’m far from happy with what has transpired the last 10 years, but I don’t have to harp on it with the same posts in every thread over and over and over again. NO ONE is happy with what has transpired. I get through it by being a luckier fan than fans of most franchises who have not tasted nearly the success we have tasted since 1986..I will NOT let the crap of the last 10 years bring me down in light of that.

A brief history of joy and angst:

1956-1963. Pure joy with 6 championship games albeit one championship

1964-1980- Agony and disgust at zero playoff appearances.

1981-1990-Mostly nirvana/pure gold

1991-1999-Mostly dreadful dreck trotted out

2000-2003-An embarassing SB display but at least we got there and then meltdowns, injuries and disarray. I was very critical of the Fassel era, rightly or wrongly

2004-2011-Modern golden era with Eli and TC. Mostly elation for me.

2012-present-Quagmire

2022-Hope with a new regime NOT PROMOTED from within..


Look at your posts above - you're the one lecturing us on what does and doesn't matter...a couple days after parachuting back in following another horrendous season.

Ok...
RE: RE: RE: RE: BB'56  
japanhead : 1/18/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15559127 clatterbuck said:
Quote:

did you miss the part in the article where it was mara who went to GM/HC and said it was time to get a look at the other quarterbacks in 2017? and then like a coward, fired mcadoo and reese when benching eli blew up in his face?

this is an example of mara directly inserting himself into a coaching decision. god knows what else he's doing, other than whiffing on GM and HC hires repeatedly.


Suggesting it might be time to get a look at the other QBs and benching Manning for Geno Smith is not quite the same think.


the only reason eli was benched for smith and not webb is because webb was so bad at quarterback that the coaching staff couldn't justify putting him on the field.

which begs the question, who was responsible for drafting davis webb again?
RE: RE: BB56  
clatterbuck : 1/18/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15559163 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15559114 Go Terps said:


Quote:


We're all going to "see what happens". But if you can't take fans rightly being critical of ownership in the meantime, you might want to rethink coming out of your annual hiatus.

The Maras don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and they're not going to get it.



Please don’t lecture me on what to be critical of. I’ve seen it all and have been strongly critical when necessary. I’m far from happy with what has transpired the last 10 years, but I don’t have to harp on it with the same posts in every thread over and over and over again. NO ONE is happy with what has transpired. I get through it by being a luckier fan than fans of most franchises who have not tasted nearly the success we have tasted since 1986..I will NOT let the crap of the last 10 years bring me down in light of that.

A brief history of joy and angst:

1956-1963. Pure joy with 6 championship games albeit one championship

1964-1980- Agony and disgust at zero playoff appearances.

1981-1990-Mostly nirvana/pure gold

1991-1999-Mostly dreadful dreck trotted out

2000-2003-An embarassing SB display but at least we got there and then meltdowns, injuries and disarray. I was very critical of the Fassel era, rightly or wrongly

2004-2011-Modern golden era with Eli and TC. Mostly elation for me.

2012-present-Quagmire

2022-Hope with a new regime NOT PROMOTED from within..


+1. I've also been around since 1956 and have shared the joy and the angst and well as some perspective.
RE: As noted above, so many complaining about unknowns  
Bill in UT : 1/18/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15559108 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and intertwined front office items that may not really be causing any issues other than conspiracy perceptions.

Meanwhile, you have to very pleased with what the Owners are undertaking (if indeed carried out) as it flies in the face of most of the threads and comments have been on here for past few weeks:

*Ended Gettleman's term as GM
*Not interviewing Abrams for job
*Only interviewing outside candidates, many from successful franchises or rebuilds, and many are top names available
*Ended Judge's term as Head Coach
*Leaving the new GM in charge of finding/hiring new Head Coach
*Indicated GM/Coach will run decisions on future of some key players like Jones and Saquon

Good lord, this is a home run if all carried out. What the hell else do you people really need...


Good for Mara for the moves he's already made. I'll believe he's going to carry out the rest of it, and give the GM top authority over personnel/scouting, when I actually see it. There is nothing about Mara that says he deserves the benefit of the doubt going forward
RE: Today I learned: It was Mara himself that led to Eli's Benching  
bw in dc : 1/18/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15559024 islander1 said:
Quote:
now that's something.


That was out there in the media. It just got underplayed. I got into long debates about this to prove Mara used McAdoo and Reese as fall guys for HIS DECISION.

Naturally, most of BBI looked the other way because there was no way classy John Mara would do that.

I really hope any GM taking this job knows exactly what they are walking into. Unless they are asking tough questions to Mara there is a chance the wool will be pulled over their eyes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: BB'56  
Jimmy Googs : 1/18/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15559173 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15559127 clatterbuck said:


Quote:



did you miss the part in the article where it was mara who went to GM/HC and said it was time to get a look at the other quarterbacks in 2017? and then like a coward, fired mcadoo and reese when benching eli blew up in his face?

this is an example of mara directly inserting himself into a coaching decision. god knows what else he's doing, other than whiffing on GM and HC hires repeatedly.


Suggesting it might be time to get a look at the other QBs and benching Manning for Geno Smith is not quite the same think.



the only reason eli was benched for smith and not webb is because webb was so bad at quarterback that the coaching staff couldn't justify putting him on the field.

which begs the question, who was responsible for drafting davis webb again?


Not exactly. Coaching staff had Smith as #2 on the depth chart and he probably was a good soldier as a backup even if his days as a reliable starter were over. Coaches also probably hadn't spent anytime getting Webb developed whatsoever so they were never going to take that unknown chance no matter if fans were looking to see "what happens".
I get it  
ryanmkeane : 1/18/2022 11:45 am : link
Ans completely understand the clusterfuck. Just not entirely sure what good it does to keep harping on it instead of focusing on getting things right this time
There is really no need to, or desire to  
Mike from Ohio : 1/18/2022 11:46 am : link
build BBI consensus on any issue.

If you don't think the front office situation with the Giants is a big deal, great. You don't need to and nobody needs to convince you that it is. But if you think it is an issue, there is no reason you should be told it isn't. It's actually fine to have more than one point of view expresses here. This is not North Korea.
japanhead  
Sean : 1/18/2022 11:46 am : link
Quote:
reports suggest mara in fact wanted to retain judge and it was tisch who forced the issue (per reports, it was also tisch who wanted to blow it all up in 2019 when shurmur was fired, but deferred to mara's wishes to let gettleman "finish what he started").

so not really sure how much credit we can give to mara here.

Judge isn’t here. Regardless of how it was arrived, the decision was made to fire him by ownership.
RE: RE: As noted above, so many complaining about unknowns  
Jimmy Googs : 1/18/2022 11:47 am : link
In comment 15559180 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15559108 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


and intertwined front office items that may not really be causing any issues other than conspiracy perceptions.

Meanwhile, you have to very pleased with what the Owners are undertaking (if indeed carried out) as it flies in the face of most of the threads and comments have been on here for past few weeks:

*Ended Gettleman's term as GM
*Not interviewing Abrams for job
*Only interviewing outside candidates, many from successful franchises or rebuilds, and many are top names available
*Ended Judge's term as Head Coach
*Leaving the new GM in charge of finding/hiring new Head Coach
*Indicated GM/Coach will run decisions on future of some key players like Jones and Saquon

Good lord, this is a home run if all carried out. What the hell else do you people really need...



Good for Mara for the moves he's already made. I'll believe he's going to carry out the rest of it, and give the GM top authority over personnel/scouting, when I actually see it. There is nothing about Mara that says he deserves the benefit of the doubt going forward


Totally agree. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt either. But these were the publicly announced plans so it pleases me to hear this much as opposed to digging for "Who Shot Kennedy?"...
RE: RE: RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15559169 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15559163 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15559114 Go Terps said:


Quote:


We're all going to "see what happens". But if you can't take fans rightly being critical of ownership in the meantime, you might want to rethink coming out of your annual hiatus.

The Maras don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and they're not going to get it.



Please don’t lecture me on what to be critical of. I’ve seen it all and have been strongly critical when necessary. I’m far from happy with what has transpired the last 10 years, but I don’t have to harp on it with the same posts in every thread over and over and over again. NO ONE is happy with what has transpired. I get through it by being a luckier fan than fans of most franchises who have not tasted nearly the success we have tasted since 1986..I will NOT let the crap of the last 10 years bring me down in light of that.

A brief history of joy and angst:

1956-1963. Pure joy with 6 championship games albeit one championship

1964-1980- Agony and disgust at zero playoff appearances.

1981-1990-Mostly nirvana/pure gold

1991-1999-Mostly dreadful dreck trotted out

2000-2003-An embarassing SB display but at least we got there and then meltdowns, injuries and disarray. I was very critical of the Fassel era, rightly or wrongly

2004-2011-Modern golden era with Eli and TC. Mostly elation for me.

2012-present-Quagmire

2022-Hope with a new regime NOT PROMOTED from within..




Look at your posts above - you're the one lecturing us on what does and doesn't matter...a couple days after parachuting back in following another horrendous season.

Ok...


I take a yearly sabbatical every year and plan on returning at season’s end towards FA..Nothing new there. This year was earlier than usual because it was better to leave BBi behind than to read same posts on every thread. Even if we tried to scroll past you which I tried to do, your incessant same old same old always caught the eye. Some of us didn’t agree with you, but acknowledged you COULD BE RIGHT, yet that wasn’t enough for you, you had to continue to pound out the same points ad infinitum. We got it, back in the beginning, but yet you continued the same lines without stop. It was time to take a break to avoid arguing the same points and so I did. Didn’t even lurk until season’s end.

I wasn’t lecturing anyone or didn’t mean to. I was speaking FOR ME and what was important FOR ME and reasonably stated that we should wait and see what the “outside” regime might hold for us. If that’s lecturing, then guilty as charged
RE: I get it  
rsjem1979 : 1/18/2022 11:51 am : link
In comment 15559185 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Ans completely understand the clusterfuck. Just not entirely sure what good it does to keep harping on it instead of focusing on getting things right this time


Because context and transparency are important.
The correct way to do this..  
Sean : 1/18/2022 11:52 am : link
Remove Chris Mara from player personnel and may his title an Executive SVP strictly under ownership. New GM gets full control to overhaul football operations & should be able to bring in his number 2.

That goes a long way in clearing out the rot.
RE: I get it  
Go Terps : 1/18/2022 11:52 am : link
In comment 15559185 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Ans completely understand the clusterfuck. Just not entirely sure what good it does to keep harping on it instead of focusing on getting things right this time


You know none of us are in the front office right?

Blind positivity from fans isn't the same as the front office getting things right.
RE: .  
Jerry in_DC : 1/18/2022 11:53 am : link
In comment 15559146 MOOPS said:
Quote:
"Chris doesn’t go on the road to scout college games during the fall. His in-person scouting is typically limited to postseason all-star games, the scouting combine and college pro days..."

I guess this explains why we drafted the MVP of the Senior Bowl three years in a row, Webb, Lauletta and Jones.


Holy shit. That is unbelievable - great catch there. That is so incriminating. Damn. These guys are so lazy.
RE: The correct way to do this..  
Jimmy Googs : 1/18/2022 11:59 am : link
In comment 15559198 Sean said:
Quote:
Remove Chris Mara from player personnel and may his title an Executive SVP strictly under ownership. New GM gets full control to overhaul football operations & should be able to bring in his number 2.

That goes a long way in clearing out the rot.


Yep, that is the prudent play. Still have Tim though so folks will want to keep digging deeper...
The Maras are mongos  
Optimus-NY : 1/18/2022 12:02 pm : link
End of story. They need to be embarrassed.
RE: The correct way to do this..  
uther99 : 1/18/2022 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15559198 Sean said:
Quote:
Remove Chris Mara from player personnel and may his title an Executive SVP strictly under ownership. New GM gets full control to overhaul football operations & should be able to bring in his number 2.

That goes a long way in clearing out the rot.


This makes sense. Or let Chris and Timmy play in their own sandbox, while the new GM builds a entire scouting department separate from Chris Mara's.
RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 1/18/2022 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15559204 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15559146 MOOPS said:


Quote:


"Chris doesn’t go on the road to scout college games during the fall. His in-person scouting is typically limited to postseason all-star games, the scouting combine and college pro days..."

I guess this explains why we drafted the MVP of the Senior Bowl three years in a row, Webb, Lauletta and Jones.



Holy shit. That is unbelievable - great catch there. That is so incriminating. Damn. These guys are so lazy.


It's incredible. All three guys are similar - flawed passers who has a good weekend at the Senior Bowl and probably look like guys he'd want Kate or Rooney to bring home.

What a fucking joke.
Duggan Tweet re His Article:  
clatterbuck : 1/18/2022 12:10 pm : link
"Mara family members in the front office aren't boogeymen responsible for Giants' demise. But they have maintained prominent roles while many others have been replaced."

References in the story seem to support John Mara's contention about Chris Mara's and Tim McDonnell's competence. So is the point they should have resigned or been forced out because of optics or public relations or to cover up for Gettleman's abject failures? It's ludicrous to even think this would be a possibility. I get the organizational dilemma this may pose but still think this is being overhyped.
RE: RE: The Davis Webb thing was infuriating  
Section331 : 1/18/2022 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15559126 jestersdead said:
Quote:


And the flip side to that is, Bradshaw in the 7th round. Which the article credits him for pushing that pick


That's fair, but Bradshaw's talent was well known, it was the criminal charges that pushed him down the draft board. Having an owner sign off on drafting him makes a big difference, but I'm not sure it's an example of his eye for talent.
RE: those  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/18/2022 12:17 pm : link
In comment 15558930 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Giants fans who think these issues are "in the past" are clearly deluding themselves. But it's not surprising. They just don't want to admit the scope of the problem so they bury their heads in the sand.

It's also pretty clear that Mara was looking for any excuse in the world to keep Joe Judge. That in itself is damning beyond belief.

John Mara doesn't know what he is doing.



It’s clear as day. The fact that Mara is interviewing the GM candidates while retaining his title in the personnel department is so problematic. But the people that constantly choose to view things in a positive light when it pertains to the Giants, in spite of a decade of futility, will continue to do so
RE: Duggan Tweet re His Article:  
Mike from Ohio : 1/18/2022 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15559243 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
"Mara family members in the front office aren't boogeymen responsible for Giants' demise. But they have maintained prominent roles while many others have been replaced."

References in the story seem to support John Mara's contention about Chris Mara's and Tim McDonnell's competence. So is the point they should have resigned or been forced out because of optics or public relations or to cover up for Gettleman's abject failures? It's ludicrous to even think this would be a possibility. I get the organizational dilemma this may pose but still think this is being overhyped.


The problem is not that Chris or Tim are inherently bad at their jobs. The point is that they can keep their jobs regardless of how well they do them, and they have a direct line to the owners that others don't.

This would be like working where you work but the owner's daughter reports to you. She may be good at her job, but you are never going to view her as just another staff or decide to let her go because her work is subpar. She has outsized influence that has nothing to do with the org chart.
RE: RE: those  
Jimmy Googs : 1/18/2022 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15559251 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
But the people that constantly choose to view things in a positive light when it pertains to the Giants, in spite of a decade of futility, will continue to do so


I definitely have to stop doing this...
RE: RE: Duggan Tweet re His Article:  
Bill in UT : 1/18/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15559255 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:

The problem is not that Chris or Tim are inherently bad at their jobs. The point is that they can keep their jobs regardless of how well they do them, and they have a direct line to the owners that others don't.



yeah, but the fact that our talent acquisition has been so awful since Chris has been "running" the dept sort of points to them being bad at their jobs
RE: The correct way to do this..  
bw in dc : 1/18/2022 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15559198 Sean said:
Quote:
Remove Chris Mara from player personnel and may his title an Executive SVP strictly under ownership. New GM gets full control to overhaul football operations & should be able to bring in his number 2.

That goes a long way in clearing out the rot.


Either call Chris "Co-Owner", and remove his from his role, or role his current role under the GM, and that is whom he reports to. That way there is a legitimate guard rail installed.

Look, this transformation only works IF Mara is honest and truly gives the entire football operations and accountability to the new GM. If that happens, and the GM is the right choice, we will begin to emerge out of the darkness.

RE: RE: RE: Duggan Tweet re His Article:  
Bill in UT : 1/18/2022 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15559267 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
In comment 15559255 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:



The problem is not that Chris or Tim are inherently bad at their jobs. The point is that they can keep their jobs regardless of how well they do them, and they have a direct line to the owners that others don't.





yeah, but the fact that our talent acquisition has been so awful since Chris has been "running" the dept sort of points to them being bad at their jobs


And even if they themselves have some eye for talent and the lousy work has been done by others, it's been Chris' role for the last 10 years to recognize the problem and get rid of the people responsible. So at a minimum, he's bad at that part of his job. Or, we can just go with the premise that Chris actually has no role, and everything has been the GM's fault
RE: RE: The correct way to do this..  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/18/2022 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15559268 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15559198 Sean said:


Quote:


Remove Chris Mara from player personnel and may his title an Executive SVP strictly under ownership. New GM gets full control to overhaul football operations & should be able to bring in his number 2.

That goes a long way in clearing out the rot.



Either call Chris "Co-Owner", and remove his from his role, or role his current role under the GM, and that is whom he reports to. That way there is a legitimate guard rail installed.

Look, this transformation only works IF Mara is honest and truly gives the entire football operations and accountability to the new GM. If that happens, and the GM is the right choice, we will begin to emerge out of the darkness.


You can remove his title, but what does that accomplish? He owns the team. As multiple people pointed out in the article, he’s still going to have more sway than most people. It will be telling if assurances are given or his presence deters any of these guys from taking the job if offered
RE: I get it  
GiantGrit : 1/18/2022 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15559185 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Ans completely understand the clusterfuck. Just not entirely sure what good it does to keep harping on it instead of focusing on getting things right this time


Apparently a lot of blind positivity around here that needs to be handled.

RE: As noted above, so many complaining about unknowns  
DavidinBMNY : 1/18/2022 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15559108 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and intertwined front office items that may not really be causing any issues other than conspiracy perceptions.

Meanwhile, you have to very pleased with what the Owners are undertaking (if indeed carried out) as it flies in the face of most of the threads and comments have been on here for past few weeks:

*Ended Gettleman's term as GM
*Not interviewing Abrams for job
*Only interviewing outside candidates, many from successful franchises or rebuilds, and many are top names available
*Ended Judge's term as Head Coach
*Leaving the new GM in charge of finding/hiring new Head Coach
*Indicated GM/Coach will run decisions on future of some key players like Jones and Saquon

Good lord, this is a home run if all carried out. What the hell else do you people really need...
right.
RE: RE: RE: those  
Dnew15 : 1/18/2022 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15559257 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15559251 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


But the people that constantly choose to view things in a positive light when it pertains to the Giants, in spite of a decade of futility, will continue to do so



I definitely have to stop doing this...


I have this disgusting cycle I've found myself in as a fan.

This time of year - I hate the Giants, totally done with them, just down right horrified in the general direction of the team.

Then comes the draft/FA season hits where I get all excited about the players coming in, the franchise turning it around with certain draft picks and/or signings, the projections of how certain players will succeed in the NFL and/or how they project as a Giant.

Then I'm disappointed in the Giants draft. I wish they had taken (fill in the blank) instead of (literally every 1st round pick they've made the past 10 years), I get down on the GM and the coaching staff for decisions they made and what I would have done instead and so on.

Then camp hits and I'm super pumped and talk myself into how the Giants are going to turn it around despite hating everything they did 3 months ago. I talk myself into SB being the right pick at #2 or re-watch DJ play games from the season prior to convince myself that there's something to get pumped about.

Then the season starts and the Giants are eliminated by the end of October and I suffer through the rest of the season.

Then the cycle starts over.
I think that was the point and the timing of the article  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2022 12:42 pm : link
Quote:
I really hope any GM taking this job knows exactly what they are walking into. Unless they are asking tough questions to Mara there is a chance the wool will be pulled over their eyes.


I don't care if Chris and Tim have jobs or what about their titles. Titles are a big NYC thing-even the janitors have titles, and if I run into one more "Managing Director", I'll throw up. So the titles are meaningless.

But they have to do the job and do it well. If Chris wants to play scout and no one cares or listens to it, fine. Same with Tim. If they want a voice, they need to do the job. Scouting by watching the Senior Bowl ain't it.
RE: RE: RE: The correct way to do this..  
bw in dc : 1/18/2022 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15559277 Ned In Atlanta said:
Either call Chris "Co-Owner", and remove his from his role, or role his current role under the GM, and that is whom he reports to. That way there is a legitimate guard rail installed.

Look, this transformation only works IF Mara is honest and truly gives the entire football operations and accountability to the new GM. If that happens, and the GM is the right choice, we will begin to emerge out of the darkness.




You can remove his title, but what does that accomplish? He owns the team. As multiple people pointed out in the article, he’s still going to have more sway than most people. It will be telling if assurances are given or his presence deters any of these guys from taking the job if offered [/quote]

If you remove the title, it gives the new GM a chance to hire his own head of player personnel.
RE: jesus christ that was a depressing read.  
GiantTuff1 : 1/18/2022 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15558934 japanhead said:
Quote:
sounds as if john mara doesn't even recognize that his brother and nephew being in prominent player personnel positions is a problem from an accountability standpoint.

also, with regard to mara not overriding a GMs draft choice unless there's a character issue.. what does that mean? did john mara overrule reese, who wanted tunsil and draft eli apple instead? what about parsons this past draft?

what a mess. a team run by these bunch of out-of-touch silver spoons who hide behind the disjointed org structure to dodge accountability for terrible decision-making is a hard model to respect.

as one quoted says, at least in dallas jerry and his son make it clear they run the show. conversely, the giants set up pasties and fall guys and ruin career after career as they continue their unabated meddling.

sickening really.


+1000
good or not at their portion of their jobs  
Platos : 1/18/2022 1:09 pm : link
Chris Mara, and to a lesser extent McConnell who hasn't been in his position that long, need to get a good hard look from John and Tisch.

we're interviewing directors of personnel and college scouting for our own GM position. Having "un-hireables" in that position for us completely breaks the Giants way.

i'm not even against the giants way, it makes perfect sense to hire from within the company in pretty much every business model, but we should be a FARM for future GMs.
RE: McAdoo did love Mahomes  
Dr. D : 1/18/2022 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15559027 Sean said:
Quote:


Quote:


In the 2017 draft, McAdoo coveted Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes — “I’d love to get my fucking hands on him,” a front-office source recalled McAdoo saying in a pre-draft meeting after attending Mahomes’ pro day workout — but the Giants stuck with the 23rd pick and took tight end Evan Engram.


At least we got an undersized TE who can't block or catch consistently.
Great quote from the article  
Go Terps : 1/18/2022 1:23 pm : link
Quote:
“They still hold onto ’07, ’11, LT, Phil Simms — at some point you’ve got to say, ‘That was awesome. You’ll always have that,'” the former staffer said. “But you have to realize football has changed a lot even in the past couple of years.”
RE: RE: The Davis Webb thing was infuriating  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 1/18/2022 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15559126 jestersdead said:
Quote:
In comment 15559119 Go Terps said:


Quote:


All you had to do was watch him throw the ball five times to know he didn't have it. For Chris to push for him and still have a voice of influence...yikes.

Maybe it was one too many mint julips in his draft war room at Churchill Downs.



And the flip side to that is, Bradshaw in the 7th round. Which the article credits him for pushing that pick


And he knew about Bradshaw because his daughter was a student at Marshall and told her dad about Bradshaw. At least, that is the story I read years ago.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 1/18/2022 1:28 pm : link
In comment 15559235 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15559204 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


In comment 15559146 MOOPS said:


Quote:


"Chris doesn’t go on the road to scout college games during the fall. His in-person scouting is typically limited to postseason all-star games, the scouting combine and college pro days..."

I guess this explains why we drafted the MVP of the Senior Bowl three years in a row, Webb, Lauletta and Jones.



Holy shit. That is unbelievable - great catch there. That is so incriminating. Damn. These guys are so lazy.



It's incredible. All three guys are similar - flawed passers who has a good weekend at the Senior Bowl and probably look like guys he'd want Kate or Rooney to bring home.

What a fucking joke.


Wow, great fking point.
RE: RE: RE: The Davis Webb thing was infuriating  
Mike from Ohio : 1/18/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15559398 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15559126 jestersdead said:


Quote:


In comment 15559119 Go Terps said:


Quote:


All you had to do was watch him throw the ball five times to know he didn't have it. For Chris to push for him and still have a voice of influence...yikes.

Maybe it was one too many mint julips in his draft war room at Churchill Downs.



And the flip side to that is, Bradshaw in the 7th round. Which the article credits him for pushing that pick



And he knew about Bradshaw because his daughter was a student at Marshall and told her dad about Bradshaw. At least, that is the story I read years ago.


I don't think either of his daughters attended Marshall. You may be blurring the fact that Kata Mara was in the movie "We are Marshall" with having actually attended the school.
A question re. the difference with the Steelers  
Dr. D : 1/18/2022 1:52 pm : link
I think most people would agree the Steelers are pretty well run, based on their competitiveness year to year. Just wondering how is their org different from the Giants.

Arthur J. Rooney II President
Arthur J. Rooney Jr. Vice President
Dan Rooney Jr., Player Personnel Coordinator (listed 3rd in Football Ops, under VPs Colbert and Khan)

Those are just the ones with the last name Rooney (and there was a 4th before Daniel M. Rooney (Chairman) passed away a few yrs ago). I don't know if they have any family with a different name like McDonnell.

I'm not doubting it's a problem here, but any ideas why the family stuff isn't a problem in Pitt? Are the Rooney's just better at this?
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