Giants OL rated 27th in Pass Protection in 2021

rebuilding that line in one year.

seeing WFT at #4 with Flowers at Guard.. ugh.

is better than I thought

How is Tua still in one piece?.

TENN is built for run blocking, but Cincy's OL has been dogshit for years. They prioritized WR over OL last year, and can't argue with the results.

OL deficiencies as does Burrow's insane talent.

This also proves out how an offense with a terrible QB like Hurts is passable. Stoutland is so valuable to that Eagles franchise.

Also, nice job KC. If only we had taken Trey Smith like we should have.

Hire Brian Flores, he would go to the super bowl with the Giants OL based on this.

I was told that the Giants OL is so singularly awful that a quarterback simply can't be evaluated.

In comment 15559323 US1 Giants said:

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is better than I thought

Much better.

In comment 15559338 Greg from LI said:

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I was told that the Giants OL is so singularly awful that a quarterback simply can't be evaluated.

The greatest of all great BBI myths/excuses.

separation by wide receivers, YAC, and run game efficiency.

Jones might suck, but neither the OL nor the skill players nor the playbook is NFL caliber either.

The new front office has a metric shit ton to address and limited cap space with which to do it. This might be the most important draft in NYG history since like 2004.

For years, I had people telling me here that the excellent Giants receivers of the SB teams weren't really all that great, that Eli made them what they were.

Now, poor Danny Jones is a victim of his receivers! Hey, the best receiver Dave Brown ever threw to was a washed up Mike Sherrard, but no one ever made that argument for him.

In comment 15559338 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

I was told that the Giants OL is so singularly awful that a quarterback simply can't be evaluated.

I think the QB can be evaluated, but the Giants OL is indeed singularly awful, if we consider 3 things:

1) Our own eye-test
2) Scouts on twitter
3) We started a guy at center who literally couldn't make the Bengals roster - so clearly our offensive line is worse

I think the only reason the stats don't look worse than they do is because our offensive scheme was so conservative.

In comment 15559375 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

For years, I had people telling me here that the excellent Giants receivers of the SB teams weren't really all that great, that Eli made them what they were. Now, poor Danny Jones is a victim of his receivers! Hey, the best receiver Dave Brown ever threw to was a washed up Mike Sherrard, but no one ever made that argument for him.

Anyone saying the giants WRs weren’t great with Eli are silly. The 2011 WRs, Eli, and JPP carried the team the entire year.

Jones sucks. When Golladay, Toney, and Shepard are healthy - they may not be that of total awesomeness but they’re better than most teams weapons.

In comment 15559338 Greg from LI said:

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I was told that the Giants OL is so singularly awful that a quarterback simply can't be evaluated.

+1

Maybe they'd be better with a better quarterback.

In comment 15559375 Greg from LI said:

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For years, I had people telling me here that the excellent Giants receivers of the SB teams weren't really all that great, that Eli made them what they were. Now, poor Danny Jones is a victim of his receivers! Hey, the best receiver Dave Brown ever threw to was a washed up Mike Sherrard, but no one ever made that argument for him.

Well it is correct that no WR ever had the same success that they did under Eli.

I freely admit that Jones may suck, odds are that he does, since what are the odds that QB is the one position Gettleman got right? But with that said, when none of anything around him worked out, what are we expecting out of Jones in 2021?

It’s the same argument when Eli couldn’t drag the carcass of Will Tye and Reuben Randle to the playoffs.

Furthermore, re: Dave Brown, he had three full seasons as starter in 1994, 1995, and 1996, and if I’m not mistaken, he still was on the roster in 1997 when he started 6 games before getting injured and relinquishing the job to Danny Kanell. It’s not like we wanted to dump him after 95.

In comment 15559404 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

In comment 15559375 Greg from LI said: Quote: For years, I had people telling me here that the excellent Giants receivers of the SB teams weren't really all that great, that Eli made them what they were. Now, poor Danny Jones is a victim of his receivers! Hey, the best receiver Dave Brown ever threw to was a washed up Mike Sherrard, but no one ever made that argument for him. Well it is correct that no WR ever had the same success that they did under Eli. I freely admit that Jones may suck, odds are that he does, since what are the odds that QB is the one position Gettleman got right? But with that said, when none of anything around him worked out, what are we expecting out of Jones in 2021? It’s the same argument when Eli couldn’t drag the carcass of Will Tye and Reuben Randle to the playoffs. Furthermore, re: Dave Brown, he had three full seasons as starter in 1994, 1995, and 1996, and if I’m not mistaken, he still was on the roster in 1997 when he started 6 games before getting injured and relinquishing the job to Danny Kanell. It’s not like we wanted to dump him after 95.

To be fair, the Saints in the 70s got the QB right and literally nothing else.

But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen.

Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time.

Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is.

In comment 15559404 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

Furthermore, re: Dave Brown, he had three full seasons as starter in 1994, 1995, and 1996, and if I’m not mistaken, he still was on the roster in 1997 when he started 6 games before getting injured and relinquishing the job to Danny Kanell. It’s not like we wanted to dump him after 95.

George Young LOVED Dave Brown.

I found the linked story from the Baltimore Sun discussing the QB situation Jim Fassel inherited when he took over.

Quote:

Brown has been the most controversial player on the Giants team the past two years. He not only didn't play well, but was a focal point of the rift between coach Dan Reeves and general manager George Young. Reeves made it obvious he didn't think Brown could play. Young was -- and still is -- a Brown booster. "All the things that are being said now about Dave Brown were being said about Phil Simms early in his career," Young said.

Sound familiar?
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15559433 rsjem1979 said:

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In comment 15559404 PetesHereNow said: Quote: Furthermore, re: Dave Brown, he had three full seasons as starter in 1994, 1995, and 1996, and if I’m not mistaken, he still was on the roster in 1997 when he started 6 games before getting injured and relinquishing the job to Danny Kanell. It’s not like we wanted to dump him after 95. George Young LOVED Dave Brown. I found the linked story from the Baltimore Sun discussing the QB situation Jim Fassel inherited when he took over. Quote: Brown has been the most controversial player on the Giants team the past two years. He not only didn't play well, but was a focal point of the rift between coach Dan Reeves and general manager George Young. Reeves made it obvious he didn't think Brown could play. Young was -- and still is -- a Brown booster. "All the things that are being said now about Dave Brown were being said about Phil Simms early in his career," Young said. Sound familiar? Link - ( New Window )

Of course. With that said, the guy who drafted Jones is gone. If next GM says Jones can’t be on this roster, I’m fine with that.

But if he does say that he believes in Jones as the number 1 guy, this website is going to explode with assertions that Mara hired New GM simply because he said he’d work with Jones.

is the worst line i've ever seen in my life. 5 different quarterbacks have all looked bad behind this line.

maybe thomas not allowing 100 sacks is keeping us from rock bottom?

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

the delta between PFF and ESPN is unbelievable.

ESPN has it right. Pittsburgh's OL was putrid this year.

In comment 15559318 JB_in_DC said:

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rebuilding that line in one year.

yep...

In comment 15559366 PetesHereNow said:

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separation by wide receivers, YAC, and run game efficiency. Jones might suck, but neither the OL nor the skill players nor the playbook is NFL caliber either. The new front office has a metric shit ton to address and limited cap space with which to do it. This might be the most important draft in NYG history since like 2004.

+1. Especially after the failed free agent frenzy of last season. Golladay looks like a total disaster

not the worst ever.

not even the worst this season.

In comment 15559474 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15559318 JB_in_DC said: Quote: rebuilding that line in one year. yep...

My draft wish from last year was:

1. Micah Parsons
2. Creed Humphrey

Not saying I am a GM but this would be nice right now on NYG

In comment 15559415 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen. Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time. Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is.

you need a gun to your head to tell you that?

In comment 15559321 Fat Wally said:

Quote:

seeing WFT at #4 with Flowers at Guard.. ugh.

I believe he refused to play guard for us. He still thought he was a LT. I believe it also took him a while before he became a decent guard, so I wouldn't feel bad about losing him.

In comment 15559482 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15559415 PetesHereNow said: Quote: But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen. Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time. Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is. you need a gun to your head to tell you that?

No. But I’m saying if you give me the choice:
A) Jones returns, we fix the OL to acceptable
B) We draft Corral/Pickett, and don’t address the OL.

I’m picking A. A works even if Jones isn’t the long term guy. B is just changing the lead violin player on the Titanic.

...we were assured that the Giants OL was, at worst, middle of the pack.

In comment 15559487 Dr. D said:

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In comment 15559321 Fat Wally said: Quote: seeing WFT at #4 with Flowers at Guard.. ugh. I believe he refused to play guard for us. He still thought he was a LT. I believe it also took him a while before he became a decent guard, so I wouldn't feel bad about losing him.

I hear people say this but I doubt it's true. He was drafted as T and after Beatty got hurt and before we signed Solder he was our best option at LT. I'm talking 2015-2017. By 2018 when we signed Solder we had drafter Hernandez for one G and signed Omameh for the other G so RT it was. Plus I think Gettleman wanted him gone as did most of the fan base.

In comment 15559490 PetesHereNow said:

Quote:

In comment 15559482 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15559415 PetesHereNow said: Quote: But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen. Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time. Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is. you need a gun to your head to tell you that? No. But I’m saying if you give me the choice: A) Jones returns, we fix the OL to acceptable B) We draft Corral/Pickett, and don’t address the OL. I’m picking A. A works even if Jones isn’t the long term guy. B is just changing the lead violin player on the Titanic.

The problem is the QB has influence over how successful the line is. And if you never have a good QB, your line will always look dreadful. And what if Pickett or Corral are actually studs in the NFL.

In comment 15559493 Brown_Hornet said:

Quote:

...we were assured that the Giants OL was, at worst, middle of the pack.

Hmmm...generally recall the point being made was the NY Giants were moreso middle of pack on allowing pressures on passing plays. See attached link on Advanced Stats as Giants indeed Rank 15th in the league at 23.1% in Pressures % Allowed.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

But continue to exaggerate for effect as you see fit...

In comment 15559523 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15559490 PetesHereNow said: Quote: In comment 15559482 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15559415 PetesHereNow said: Quote: But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen. Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time. Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is. you need a gun to your head to tell you that? No. But I’m saying if you give me the choice: A) Jones returns, we fix the OL to acceptable B) We draft Corral/Pickett, and don’t address the OL. I’m picking A. A works even if Jones isn’t the long term guy. B is just changing the lead violin player on the Titanic. The problem is the QB has influence over how successful the line is. And if you never have a good QB, your line will always look dreadful. And what if Pickett or Corral are actually studs in the NFL.

If Pickett or Corral are studs in the NFL, then it would be a surprise to every draft evaluator in the business.

However, I think you’re overstating the effect a good QB has on his OL. If that was the case, why did Mahomes look like dogshit in the Super Bowl vs. Tampa?

In comment 15559555 PetesHereNow said:

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However, I think you’re overstating the effect a good QB has on his OL. If that was the case, why did Mahomes look like dogshit in the Super Bowl vs. Tampa?

Because one game is not necessarily indicative of any player's overall worth.

In the 52 years I have been following NFL football, I have never seen a team's OL perform as consistently awful as the 2021 Giants OL.

In comment 15559523 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15559490 PetesHereNow said: Quote: In comment 15559482 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15559415 PetesHereNow said: Quote: But if you had a gun to your head, you’d have to lean towards No on Jones. For me, next year is another shit show waiting to happen. Hopefully, we can rebuild the OL to some degree, we get some health out of the WRs, and if Jones looks better under New Coach, you can at least argue that he deserves more time. Swapping out Jones for Matt Corral/Kenny Pickett won’t work unless you fix what is around whoever the quarterback is. you need a gun to your head to tell you that? No. But I’m saying if you give me the choice: A) Jones returns, we fix the OL to acceptable B) We draft Corral/Pickett, and don’t address the OL. I’m picking A. A works even if Jones isn’t the long term guy. B is just changing the lead violin player on the Titanic. The problem is the QB has influence over how successful the line is. And if you never have a good QB, your line will always look dreadful. And what if Pickett or Corral are actually studs in the NFL.

The problem is the OL has influence how successful the QB is.

In comment 15559582 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

In comment 15559555 PetesHereNow said: Quote: However, I think you’re overstating the effect a good QB has on his OL. If that was the case, why did Mahomes look like dogshit in the Super Bowl vs. Tampa? Because one game is not necessarily indicative of any player's overall worth.

In other words show you data that the one game is indicative of what can happen to a super football team and you choose to pretend like it never happened?

In comment 15559676 BigBlueNH said:

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In the 52 years I have been following NFL football, I have never seen a team's OL perform as consistently awful as the 2021 Giants OL.

Your eyes are correct. What's happening on this thread is that you have the OP posted a portion of OL responsibility and you have moronic posters thinking it means everything so they can bash Jones.

In comment 15559698 giantstock said:

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Because one game is not necessarily indicative of any player's overall worth. In other words show you data that the one game is indicative of what can happen to a super football team and you choose to pretend like it never happened?

Showing that something happened once doesn't disprove the idea that good QBs can make OLs better.

I can find one game to prove almost anything.

Why would any team with a good QB ever spend money/draft picks on the OL?

Green Bay, Kansas City, Tampa should never spend money or draft picks on the OL since they have the HOF best QBs?

In comment 15559719 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

In comment 15559698 giantstock said: Quote: Because one game is not necessarily indicative of any player's overall worth. In other words show you data that the one game is indicative of what can happen to a super football team and you choose to pretend like it never happened? Showing that something happened once doesn't disprove the idea that good QBs can make OLs better. I can find one game to prove almost anything.

I'll rephrase: I agree good QB's can make OL's better. I'm also saying that good OL's can make QB's look better too. Agree?

I'm also saying bad OL's can make a good QB look bad. Agree?


The point is, this isn't either/or issue about OL's and a QB . Agree?

In comment 15559676 BigBlueNH said:

Quote:

In the 52 years I have been following NFL football, I have never seen a team's OL perform as consistently awful as the 2021 Giants OL.

Well, clearly you didn't watch Seattle in 2018 and 2019.

This year, Seattle (again), Chicago, Pittsburgh, Carolina, and Atlanta were just as bad as NYG. If not worse.

I don't think we were close to being as bad as Chicago and Carolina. Those OLs should have been wearing handicap stickers.

If you think their OLs played worse than the 2021 Giants, your eyes were not seeing what my eyes saw. Guess you're entitled to your opinion.

In comment 15559804 PetesHereNow said:

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Why would any team with a good QB ever spend money/draft picks on the OL? Green Bay, Kansas City, Tampa should never spend money or draft picks on the OL since they have the HOF best QBs?

Congrats, you won the argument against a point nobody was making.

Our shit OLine wasn't dead last in pass blocking so every Jones crybaby comes out to try to prove a retarded point.
Factor in:
Scheme
In game coaching decisions
WR play
TE play
RB performance

This is why Eli, McCoy, Glennon, Fromm, and Jones looked like complete shit.
That and the horrific OLine play...

In comment 15560235 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

In comment 15559804 PetesHereNow said: Quote: Why would any team with a good QB ever spend money/draft picks on the OL? Green Bay, Kansas City, Tampa should never spend money or draft picks on the OL since they have the HOF best QBs? Congrats, you won the argument against a point nobody was making.

Not true. Hes bene spot on. He first started posting after Greg from LI made the below sarcastic quote.

That's the context Pete has been replying to. Greg and possibly others seem to be downplaying how awful this OL.


===========================
"I was told that the Giants OL is so singularly awful that a quarterback simply can't be evaluated."
=====================================

In comment 15560211 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15559676 BigBlueNH said: Quote: In the 52 years I have been following NFL football, I have never seen a team's OL perform as consistently awful as the 2021 Giants OL. Well, clearly you didn't watch Seattle in 2018 and 2019. This year, Seattle (again), Chicago, Pittsburgh, Carolina, and Atlanta were just as bad as NYG. If not worse. I don't think we were close to being as bad as Chicago and Carolina. Those OLs should have been wearing handicap stickers.

PFF has had Giants overall rated 31 in 2020 and 30 in 2021. I think that 2 year run is pretty telling that this OL has ben God-awful regardless to if it is worst ever or near it. Being that bad for 2 straight years screams "pathetic."

In comment 15560311 Thunderstruck27 said:

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Our shit OLine wasn't dead last in pass blocking so every Jones crybaby comes out to try to prove a retarded point. Factor in: Scheme In game coaching decisions WR play TE play RB performance This is why Eli, McCoy, Glennon, Fromm, and Jones looked like complete shit. That and the horrific OLine play...

+1.

I have ben saying for a while now there are a few posters on here who think the NFL is a one player sport.

In comment 15560324 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15560311 Thunderstruck27 said: Quote: Our shit OLine wasn't dead last in pass blocking so every Jones crybaby comes out to try to prove a retarded point. Factor in: Scheme In game coaching decisions WR play TE play RB performance This is why Eli, McCoy, Glennon, Fromm, and Jones looked like complete shit. That and the horrific OLine play... +1. I have ben saying for a while now there are a few posters on here who think the NFL is a one player sport.

Football isn’t a one player sport. But it would be nice to put some of those players worthy of playing this sport on our Offense at some point.

I’ll take Thomas...who else you gonna’ give me?