In fact, they should not overthink this any longer. Nice job looking widely and having an open mind, now just make the correct choice quickly without dilly dallying any longer, just hire that guy.
if so...probably all done and it is just going through NFL Hoops. If so...GREAT!
I have lost trust in this organization over the past 5-7 years and I really want to believe that we have a guy who can steward us back to respectibiltiy and beyond.
Please hire Joe!
Schoen feeling like a no brainer for me at this point
Has all the experience you'd want, including being a big part of rebuilding an organization that was in some disarray. And if he can come with a hot HC candidate that he has a good working relationship with, that's a big plus.
So, Schoen and Daboll. Lets hit the ground running, rebuild this thing and install a modern freakin offense.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
And it sounds like he wont have the final call on HC because the bears ownership is handing that separately and the HC wont report to the GM.
Hopefully if Mara is true to his words the GM will have final say of what coach he wants.
Technically Mara would have final say but mostly just a stamp of approval like any other owner would do.
Well yes, every owner has final say because its there money. But it sounds like the GM in our case is going to be able to do his own HC search. The Bears are doing there HC search along with there GM search at the same time and they wont report to each other.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
Allen had 10 TDs/12 INTs in his rookie year and only completed 52% of his passes. He couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. And Schoen had a ringside seat to that. But the talent oozed out of Allen. Like it does with Fields.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
Allen had 10 TDs/12 INTs in his rookie year and only completed 52% of his passes. He couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. And Schoen had a ringside seat to that. But the talent oozed out of Allen. Like it does with Fields.
I imagine they'd compare Fields to their scouting reports on Pickett, Corral, and maybe their rough reports on the guys that figure to be available in 2023.
Threw 7 TDs/10 INTs and completed 59% of his passes. And he ran for 420 yards. Allen ran for 600+.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
You don't think the QB situation is a critical variable here?
Fields is now the equivalent of a new car that was driven off the lot and has some scratches on it. Still low mileage. Still shiny. But it now has some flaws. He's no longer the same squeaky clean prospect from a year ago and worse, he wasn't drafted by the any of these new GMs, including Schoen.
We aren't talking Peyton Manning 1999 here.
BW - if you weren’t so blinded by your hatred of Jones
you would acknowledge that when a guy is being hired to “totally rebuild an organization”, QB is just a part of personnel. Now if we ar stalking HC, that’s a different story. There’s no guarantee yet Jones will ever play again so try giving it a rest.
RE: BW - if you weren’t so blinded by your hatred of Jones
you would acknowledge that when a guy is being hired to “totally rebuild an organization”, QB is just a part of personnel. Now if we ar stalking HC, that’s a different story. There’s no guarantee yet Jones will ever play again so try giving it a rest.
+10000
This is why i cant take BBI serious. You have people here who push their agenda constantly...its ridiculous
My guess this interview with Schoen was set up very soon after the
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
you would acknowledge that when a guy is being hired to “totally rebuild an organization”, QB is just a part of personnel. Now if we ar stalking HC, that’s a different story. There’s no guarantee yet Jones will ever play again so try giving it a rest.
QB is THE piece to rebuilding a winning organization. It's just the simple. Until that problem is solved, you are swimming upstream against the rest of the league who have solved for QB.
Threw 7 TDs/10 INTs and completed 59% of his passes. And he ran for 420 yards. Allen ran for 600+.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Even before he figured out the passing side, Allen was a different kind of animal than Fields with his legs, big time touchdown rushing production in the red zone like Cam, too big and strong.
Bears QB situation: GM is saddled with Justin Fields
I guess there's a chance that one of these GMs LOVED fields last year and didn't fall out of love after one year of watching him struggle. But we might be stretching things a bit if you ask me. I don't think QB on the Bears or Giants really matters at this point, but I guess it's possible...
so we get to conjure up Fields and Allen comparisons after year 1 but damn you to hell if you did this with Daniel Jones!
I'm comparing QB types and their first-year production.
Both Allen and Fields have very similar skill sets and similar struggles their rookie year. This shouldn't be so difficult to follow. So, pulling the "bw hates Jones" card is just lazy.
I guess there's a chance that one of these GMs LOVED fields last year and didn't fall out of love after one year of watching him struggle. But we might be stretching things a bit if you ask me. I don't think QB on the Bears or Giants really matters at this point, but I guess it's possible...
It matters more for the Bears. If a new GM there doesn't like Fields he has to pick a QB immediately after the Bears spent 2 first rounders on Fields
Threw 7 TDs/10 INTs and completed 59% of his passes. And he ran for 420 yards. Allen ran for 600+.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Even before he figured out the passing side, Allen was a different kind of animal than Fields with his legs, big time touchdown rushing production in the red zone like Cam, too big and strong.
That's true. Allen was a big-time goal line threat.
Perhaps he doesn't believe in Fields. If that's the case, Giants would be much more attractive because he can move on from Jones very quickly, ownership in Chicago is not going to let the Bears move on from Fields quickly
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
so we get to conjure up Fields and Allen comparisons after year 1 but damn you to hell if you did this with Daniel Jones!
I'm comparing QB types and their first-year production.
Both Allen and Fields have very similar skill sets and similar struggles their rookie year. This shouldn't be so difficult to follow. So, pulling the "bw hates Jones" card is just lazy.
It’s not lazy, it’s true.
You liked fields coming out of college, so you took this opportunity to bash jones one more time while simultaneously trying to pump your own guy
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
If the tie-breaker is Offensive talent he is going to Chicago and that's pretty sad when you look at the Bears offense yet they have a lot more on O than the Giants do! It is a lot more than just the QB!
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
What about him playing well next year? Could that have an affect?
Based on the little I've read of these guys, he'd be my 1st choice, and if he brings Daboll over, so much the better.
Apparently he crushed his first interview. But I think most of these guys would be good choices.
If I'm Schoen, I'd rather be in NY over Chicago for the better WEATHER alone. I think half the reason Brady went south was he was sick of Boston winters. (Wouldn't surprise me).
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
Schoen wouldn't be stuck with Fields if he liked him. If he didn't like him, he might be able to find a trading partner, like Keim did with Rosen. A good GM can get very imaginative trying to solve for the QB.
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
I don't think it's taking a shot at Jones, who is not likely to be on the team for long when a new GM takes over and therefore probably isn't part of the equation.
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
OK then, you said he was "done here". I thought that mean new regime, DJ is outta here pronto.
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
+2. I'm fine with Schoen, but would prefer Hortiz.
Schoen would really have to love Fields to decide that the Bears have a better QB situation. As others have said, Jones is here for one more year maximum, and then the new GM can pick his own QB. He might even be able to do so this year.
We also have two top 10 picks and double picks in the third and fifth rounds.
would also add that it is way too premature to come to any conclusion about Fields. Most rookie QBs struggle, especially if they are playing for a bad team like the Bears. Got to give him at least one more year.
I can't understand fans that say they are desperate for an overhaul
Fields was 2-8 as a starter 7 TDs and 10 Int with a 26 QBR. DJ has performed much better than that in every year of his career. You think its obvious Fields is a franchise QB?
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
Fields was 2-8 as a starter 7 TDs and 10 Int with a 26 QBR. DJ has performed much better than that in every year of his career. You think its obvious Fields is a franchise QB?
In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
Quote:
he's going to Chicago.
Whether Fields can put it all together and become a franchise QB is obviously a very difficult question for anyone to answer.
But there is a much bigger skill set and higher ceiling than Jones.
RE: I can't understand fans that say they are desperate for an overhaul
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
The math is inconclusive because there are more variables than equations, ergo you can't solve for shit. Why are you using a thread about Schoen to take a shot at Daniel Jones when you openly admit you have no idea what you're talking about? It's just sad and childish on your part and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
I think Jones should be on the roster in '22, assuming
he's healthy. So, if the Giants keep him, everyone can just blame me. As far as '23, that will depend on how next year goes. I certainly don't sign a 5th year option without seeing him play another year.
RE: RE: why are you guys pissing on bw for simply saying what is logical
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
Collinsworth mentioned Fields the other night on the Bengals-Raiders broadcast. They were talking about the Bears opening and what an electric and special talent Fields is.
Normally this would be good news, but didn't we hear similar reports about Joe Judge two years ago.
I guess part of me would wants some kind of "independent, real football guys" in the room with John Mara and Steve Tisch that: 1) Isn't a family member, 2) Isn't way beyond his expiration date (see Accorsi in 2018; Polian this year) or 3) doesn't have strong ties to the organization.
I don't know who that would be, but I'm scared about "crushing an interview" relative to what Mara and Tisch think.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
The math is inconclusive because there are more variables than equations, ergo you can't solve for shit. Why are you using a thread about Schoen to take a shot at Daniel Jones when you openly admit you have no idea what you're talking about? It's just sad and childish on your part and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
The math is inconclusive because there are more variables than equations, ergo you can't solve for shit. Why are you using a thread about Schoen to take a shot at Daniel Jones when you openly admit you have no idea what you're talking about? It's just sad and childish on your part and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
If Schoen goes to Chicago and doesn't want Fields he has to trade him. That's much harder to do than just picking a QB unless an established QB wants to play there
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
If Schoen goes to Chicago and doesn't want Fields he has to trade him. That's much harder to do than just picking a QB unless an established QB wants to play there
Both situations are risky.
There is obviously zero guarantee on a QB you draft (highest risk). On the other end, you have to hope there is a good market of established QBs - proven assets - and you have enough assets to get fair value (less risk, IMV).
Oh, please. Have you ever been looking for a job and had multiple offers? If so, how did you manage that if you liked
each opportunity?
If there is a chance Schoen gets offers from Chicago and NY, and he likes both, what do you think his decision process should be?
Both are storied franchises. Both are big cities. Both have shaky ownership right now.
How do you break that tie without considering QB the most?
Once again, QB decision is much more straightforward in NY than Chicago, because he can move away from Jones a lot easier and pick his own QB. In Chicago he goes to a situation where he didn't pick the QB
But this isn't like interviewing coaches where we get to see their work to an extent on TV even if they're coordinators. I'm flying blind here. I couldn't pick any of the guys the Giants have interviewed for the GM spot out of a line up a month ago and most of them I hadn't even heard of.
The list seems wide, cutting edge and young. Which is what I hoped for. Now I hope they choose a great GM from it.
IMO Daniel Jones will remain a polarizing player for as long as he's on the Giants roster. Mark me down as someone who will be surprised if he's let go before the 2022 season. Hopefully if he's still on the team when training camp starts there is competition for the QB spot and no designated starter. Also mark me down as someone who has seen enough to believe Daniel Jones will never be a top 10 QB in the NFL. Also mark me down as someone who believes the Giants aren't going to win their next Super Bowl until their QB is in that discussion.
I saw a lot of Josh Allen's rookie year. His nickname should have been wild thing. Whoever the coach is that worked with him to hone in his accuracy - something that almost never happens at the NFL level, you show up and you either are accurate or you are not - is someone to keep an eye as future big time head coach or OC. That's a QB whisperer.
As far as Field's on the Bears goes. I saw nothing from him that made me think he would be a top 10 QB either. But he is really green, maybe an excellent QB coach or OC can play to his strengths.
A lot of us are disappointed the Giants didn't draft Slater or Parsons. I haven't noticed a single post that said they should have kept the pick and drafted Fields, even from the people who really want to see Jones replaced like me.
Maybe down the road if Fields develops into a top 10 QB I'll be proven wrong. But it took me about 3 games to wish the Giants had drafted Herbert instead of Andrew Thomas and I think Andrew Thomas is the best player on the Giants roster. Herbert had star elite QB written on him as soon as he got on the field. The Giants should have drafted him and dumped Jones after his rookie year. That was probably his peak value.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
So if Schoen chooses the Giants over the Bears will you assume it's because he prefers Jones to Fields or will you pivot to the myriad of other factors that go into making such an important career decision?
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
I have heard it.
What is clear is that Jones is almost a zilch, in terms of material that would make this an attractive destination.
Fields is not a zilch. How Schoen grades Fields may very well decide which job he chooses, if he is offered both.
A lot of people were critical of Nagy for failing to scheme for Fields' unique talents. And in the last few games Fields played he showed some real promise with an electric arm and running ability.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
So if Schoen chooses the Giants over the Bears will you assume it's because he prefers Jones to Fields or will you pivot to the myriad of other factors that go into making such an important career decision?
I'll assume he likes the opportunity with QB in NY better than Chicago.
If that would be based on Jones being considered > than Fields, or the ability to find a solution better than Jones easier, I obviously don't know.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
So if Schoen chooses the Giants over the Bears will you assume it's because he prefers Jones to Fields or will you pivot to the myriad of other factors that go into making such an important career decision?
I'll assume he likes the opportunity with QB in NY better than Chicago.
If that would be based on Jones being considered > than Fields, or the ability to find a solution better than Jones easier, I obviously don't know.
Two top 10 picks in NY vs no 1st round picks in Chicago is also a factor
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
We all need to stop speaking in absolutes BUT, Mara aklready said the QB is the Gm and HC's decision. That seems like something that has been established with candidates already.
We can stop the overkill though- like saying get Roman here and bring over Huntley. There whole offense is built around the QB running and has been stopped in the playoffs (with Jackson).. Huntley is a great backup for Jackson but building an offense around him would expose his massive flaws.
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
I fully agree with you BUT, what if a new GM and HC feel the crop coming (regardless of how you feel about them) isn't worth the draft capital this year and they prefer to build other positions this year through the draft, save money for next season and draft or sign the QB they want?
I am on board with Jones is not the answer BUT our cap situation will dictate what happens. Either way, I think Jones's healthy will keep him from playing anyway.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
Keeping Jones is not the same as liking him. It is possible that a new GM says Jones + Mariota/Trubisky type + Not using one of our first 3 picks on a QB is better than any QB option in 2022 Draft
Almost a completely clean slate at the QB position vs. implied commitment of Fields who was ok as a rookie. Giants have two Top 10 picks and Bears have 0. I would think the new GM would rather have the 7th pick than inheriting a 2nd year QB.
Both organizations are similar in terms of how they operate, so that part is a wash.
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
Keeping Jones is not the same as liking him. It is possible that a new GM says Jones + Mariota/Trubisky type + Not using one of our first 3 picks on a QB is better than any QB option in 2022 Draft
Under those parameters, you are correct.
I was suggesting if Jones is given his 4th year - assuming health - with no competition. Just another journeyman like a Glennon-type.
Brother in law is a big Bears fan & has no faith in their front office. For one, if Schoen goes there, he has no say in who will be the next HC. McCaskey is apparently hiring the GM & HC separate from one another.
Well, I’ll trust the new GM in whatever he thinks about Jones, over anyone on this website
More like it only makes sense to trust a new GM/HC on the upcoming Jones and Saquon decisions because everyone else in the NY Giant decision-making apparatus is a bit tainted right now.
Brother in law is a big Bears fan & has no faith in their front office. For one, if Schoen goes there, he has no say in who will be the next HC. McCaskey is apparently hiring the GM & HC separate from one another.
It doesn't seem like a sound system.
If this is true then NY is definitely a more appealing spot than Chicago because he has two top 10 picks and Schoen gets to pick his coach
It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
Brother in law is a big Bears fan & has no faith in their front office. For one, if Schoen goes there, he has no say in who will be the next HC. McCaskey is apparently hiring the GM & HC separate from one another.
It doesn't seem like a sound system.
Did you see that McCaskey press conference last week?
JFC, what a perfect marriage Gettleman and McCaskey would have been...
If Jones is still on this roster in 2023...(banging head on desk).
I'm not too worried about it; can't imagine any of these GM candidates being ok with that. Hopefully he's somewhere else in 2022. Maybe he'll go to the Chargers and send Herbert to the bench...
Seriously though, any snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather give it to someone that we have a potential interest in as a starter beyond 2022.
It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
If Jones is still on this roster in 2023...(banging head on desk).
I'm not too worried about it; can't imagine any of these GM candidates being ok with that. Hopefully he's somewhere else in 2022. Maybe he'll go to the Chargers and send Herbert to the bench...
Seriously though, any snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather give it to someone that we have a potential interest in as a starter beyond 2022.
The problem is I am not sure that that QB exists. The ones with the most potential in 2023 and beyond everybody says they need to redshirt this year and you are possibly derailing their upside by developing bad habits borne out of the necessity to survive before they are ready.
I didn't see it, but heard about it. Apparently he was going off on fans for booing Nagy's son at his high school football game? And then he went after former Bears center Olin Kreutz, calling him a liar. He then claimed he's just a fan, not a football evalator. Then he started hawking Polian's book, the same Bill Polian who is helping him in this process.
A. want an upgrade from Jones as quickly as possible and B. having 2 top 10 picks is likely more attractive than having Fields. Don’t really see the Allen comp either - one has the body type to hold up to the style of play, the other doesn’t. Allen has a much better arm too.
No one is ever going to be sure. It's not possible.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
No one is ever going to be sure. It's not possible.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
Totally agree with this. The Jets, Browns and I'm sure others punted on Watson and Mahomes because the 2018 QB class was supposed to be the best QB class in years.
No one is ever going to be sure. It's not possible.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
Generally okay with sentiments here. Including not just waiting around because of some belief that 2023 is that much better than 2022.
But using #5 pick (or like #6 with Jones) is not dipping your toe in the water...it's saying I know QBs and I found my next franchise guy. If want to dip your toe in with #25 (via trade down or trade up) or an early second rounder then fine. Dip away...
Jones in 2022 would actually be a smart thing for a new GM to do if that GM doesn’t love any of the QB prospects this year. If Jones continues the career he’s had, cool, not my guy anyway, get a decently high pick, figure out the QB in 2023. If a new offensive mind can turn Jones around, great, that worked out too.
Another option is to take a QB at 7, in a trade down, or in round 2, keep Jones, start Jones to open the year while a new QB learns.
There are multiple options here but I’m fairly certain just letting go of Jones doesn’t make much sense for 2022.
No one is going to learn anything of value watching Jones play
Jones in 2022 would actually be a smart thing for a new GM to do if that GM doesn’t love any of the QB prospects this year. If Jones continues the career he’s had, cool, not my guy anyway, get a decently high pick, figure out the QB in 2023. If a new offensive mind can turn Jones around, great, that worked out too.
Another option is to take a QB at 7, in a trade down, or in round 2, keep Jones, start Jones to open the year while a new QB learns.
There are multiple options here but I’m fairly certain just letting go of Jones doesn’t make much sense for 2022.
Keeping Jones as a trading asset or backup QB is one thing.
Making him the de facto Starting QB for 2022 would be an egregious mistake...
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
I've been as pro Jones as anybody.
If that's the new GM's plan. That would fucking suck.
But I think he has more value as a trade asset to us, since we have no cap space and would benefit from freeing up that salary and signing a cheaper backup.
Slotting Jones in to start so we can tank next year is a loser mentality I hope no GM coming in has.
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
yea while most of BBI agrees on jones, hearing terps and bw is getting exhausting.
As ive stated, i think jones is a nonfactor here when it comes to a GM making a decision. they know they can cut bait right away and most likely will after 22 if not before 22.
I think we should jus all relax. We wanted an outsider to be GM, we are gonna get it...now we wait and see. we cant play both sides of the fence and say i want an outsider, oh boo hoo the outsider didnt do what i wanted. WE dont make the decisions, they do. we can cry for months and repeat the same shit over and over (terps and bw) or we can be excited and hope better things are to come. I genuinely believe bw and terps want the franchise to stay shit because they like hearing themselves
A new GM & HC-which we'll be getting-have no ties to DJ & a lot of these dudes want to make their own imprint on the franchise so I'm confident DJ isn't in their long term plans. CC Saquon.
A new GM & HC-which we'll be getting-have no ties to DJ & a lot of these dudes want to make their own imprint on the franchise so I'm confident DJ isn't in their long term plans. CC Saquon.
This tends to be how things shake out. Which means if they did start Jones for 2022, it would be very odd and not a good sign.
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
why would it be a mistake? Because someone like a Teddy Bridgewater or Dalton type QB is going to be a better option?
Jones will play if he’s the best option on the roster. That remains to be seen. See how the draft plays out and if the GM likes any of these QBs.
Jones should play if he is the best option on the roster. Except, of course, the GM & HC that thought that same way this year went 4-13 with that mindset and lost their jobs because of it.
So hopefully the next GM/HC can find better options. Funny how you named two QBs above that both beat the Giants fairly easily this season...
To get a QB of the GMs choosing. In Chi, it’s Fields and he has no say, plus if Fields is good, he’s someone else’s legacy. At least in NY, if he likes someone this year he has draft capital and likely authority to go get him. If he doesn’t, he can focus on Oline this year so a QB he takes next year will be protected.
To me, having a good QB in place is much bigger lure for a head coach than GM. A GM may want to draft his own QB, not build around someone else’s.
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
Sweet Jesus, STFU about Daniel Jones. Tiresome ...
Nope.
Besides, this discussion isn't about Jones. It's about the mindset of the incoming GM, as well as the attractiveness of the job vs. a job on a team with a set QB.
This isn't about Jones. Jones is an irrelevant afterthought.
The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
i think EVERYONE agrees he isnt the guy, but bw is already looking to shit on the new GM before we hire him with, "if he starts jonesi n 22, we picked wrong gm" I dont think thats a fair assessment. I think the new GM can decide jones isnt the guy but starting him in 22 is whats best as we turn the roster over. what if new gm likes NON of the qbs? what if he doesnt want to trade assets for a vet qb? jones is the guy by default and after 22 we move on via draft
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No GM is going to want Jones
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
Keep Jones as a backup play? Is there a way to sign him to the AVG league backup salary or something? If so, I'd keep him around for a while...
Otherwise, we're stuck with him for next season unless we sign a seasoned vet
I’m surprised the Jones conversation is still going on
New GM incoming with what would be Jones’ 3rd HC. I’d think it would all be assumed the team is moving on at QB.
A few things:
—The prior GM has been criticized for just about all of his moves, yet the Jones pick is going to work?
—12-25 as a starting QB
—Has not shown he can stay healthy
—Already entering the 4th year of his rookie contract, the window has been missed.
test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
even if they do, the most financially prudent move would be to keep Jones in 2022. Let him take the lumps with the essentially brand new offensive line we will have outside of Thomas and maybe Lemieux.
When the rookie this year or next year comes in they’ll be playing behind a line that has hopefully gelled.
Jones will then go the Trubisky/Mariota/David Carr path and carve out a niche somewhere as a backup with starting experience.
When you see the Mike Glennon’s of the world you realize how long a career Jones could have as a backup.
Why not start a separate thread to discuss your POV's on Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, etc? Once again a thread that had nothing to do with Daniel Jones has turned into a discussion about him.
It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
Yes, we know your fucking opinion - you've made that clear, time, and time - and time - again.
with what I've seen of Jones so far, but then I'm not nearly as qualified as the new GM to evaluate his potential. So, whatever the new GM thinks is best for the Giants Re: Jones, keep him, evaluate him with new coaching, new scheme, hopefully fewer injuries or Covid problems, OR, can him and spend draft capital and/or cap maneuvers to bring someone else for this year, it will be absolutely fine with me. I'm going to start the make-over period by trusting the new GM.
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Because any GM in the league is 1,000 times smarter than you?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
Who know football would waste time arguing that a qb sucks after 1 year in which his coach and GM got blown out the door for incompetence in roster building.
The bears suck and are poorly coached, so in less than 16 starts fields is a closed book?
We can't agree Jones stinks after 37 starts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I'm not going to count out a guy with that tool kit after one year. Why should when I can list many examples of notable QBs who struggled in YR1, but then improved YR2 and beyond.
Meanwhile Jones, who had a decent rookie campaign, has regressed for three consecutive years. Proving that what happens in YR1 can be very misleading.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
That’s what I was saying. Haskins is immobile. Robinson missed games late in the year but it was his worst statistical season ever outside of the year he tore his ACL earlier in his career.
Jury is still out in Fields. But I was agreeing with you about Haskins. He is not comparable to Allen or Fields. May have a better arm than Fields, but definitely can’t run like him.
The reality is Jones likely will be a Giant next year due to his injury.
His roster bonus is presumably due the 5th day or so of the league year (March week 3). If you read the tea leaves, he won’t be able to pass a physical before then, therefore it’s difficult to trade him.
Once that bonus is paid, there’s virtually no financial upside (less than 1M) in trading him, or cutting him (200K).
Now if Jones and Jim Denton know the Giants won’t exercise the option and intend on drafting a QB, maybe they’re allowed to pursue a trade. They can sell the story it didn’t work out, get healthy, change of scenery.
Jones on a 1 year/900K deal could draw a conditional pick.
The Jones situation isn’t a huge problem for the new GM. But Jones is a problem for the new coach. He’s hurt, he’s been bad, and he’ll be on system 3 in 4 years. Coaches don’t get a lot of burner years. A new coach doesn’t get to throw one away. Especially in the wake of the last 3 guys getting 2 years and plank.
Christian. That pretty much lays out the situation with Jones. He’s going to be here in 2022. Last year of his rookie deal, they won’t pick up the 5th year option. If they do it will likely be rescinded.
RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
The very first post to this thread links a Twitter comment saying Schoen was actually interested in both the Giants and Bears GM openings. Just scroll up. That's where this started.
I thought that was very interesting and wondered what would swing Schoen's decision one way or another if offered booth jobs. The obvious answer seemed to be QB and which team had the better opportunity. I think Fields has a big upside and he's likely going to have a breakout sophomore season. So, it would seem like a smart decision for Schoen to choose Chicago.
Please accept my apology for forgetting our situation is so good that it would be insane for any GM candidate to possibly choose another opportunity instead.
RE: RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
Whether they love DJ or not, it’s what you have to replace him. A vet QB that’s better is about $15 mil a year. And you’re taking a cap hit for DJ, and this isn’t a QB heavy draft. They could try to trade him but with his neck that may not be worth much.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
But the QB situation is secondary to the ownership issues the Bears have. I think Mara is a fool but he’s not a raving douchebag like George McCaskey, the Bears’ Chairman.
RE: RE: RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
You're both great posters, so I feel bad laughing at this, but when a GIF perfectly aligns with a reply, it's a treasure to behold.
RE: RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
there are no god damned QBs worth drafting in round 1 and the Giants don't want to give Jimmy G a whopper contract? Then what? We just HAD to cut Jones even though he was only signed for one year, is better than ANYONE on the roster and likely better than that 2nd rounder you can't wait to draft. So then what????
to have Kurt Warner here when he was fresh off 2-3 bad seasons even though we just drafted Eli at first overall? But keeping Jones to hold the fort is proof that the big bad wolf is forcing GM's hand. Why is Jones such a bad option but signing some vet FA is not? What the fuck are we gonna do with JAcoby Brisett that we cannot do with Jones? They are near mirrir images of each other and here's a little news flash, Brisett or any other FA comes with a bigger price tag, and I know you all love to talk about money.
As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
That got an LOL out of me! And for good reason (it's never good form to be spouting test scores from your teenage years).
New GM and coach are not going to want any part of Jones.
Gettleman and Judge are gone because Daniel Jones sucked.
If Daniel Jones had just a little magic and won a few games on talent, even with the losing, both would likely still be here. All Mara needed was a little hope but Jones poor play got those men canned, they were tied to his success.
BW trolls and you guys troll him. Is what it is. Stop complaining and own it.
RE: I’ll interrupt this Daniel Jones debate to say that Allen’s 1st TD
to have Kurt Warner here when he was fresh off 2-3 bad seasons even though we just drafted Eli at first overall? But keeping Jones to hold the fort is proof that the big bad wolf is forcing GM's hand. Why is Jones such a bad option but signing some vet FA is not? What the fuck are we gonna do with JAcoby Brisett that we cannot do with Jones? They are near mirrir images of each other and here's a little news flash, Brisett or any other FA comes with a bigger price tag, and I know you all love to talk about money.
Can we just acknowledge that we all knew Warner was a placeholder at the time? He was taking over for Collins, who I think the franchise (and fans) would have rather kept as the bridge. But both Collins and Warner were someone else's QBs first, so there wasn't a firstborn attachment. And with that transition, there was a new baby in the house - everyone was eager to see Eli.
That's not what we're dealing with here. With Jones, we have a get-out policy taking form. And his price tag does matter. I know you don't give a fuck about the salary cap, but it's a real thing, and Jones is currently cheap, but that won't be the case after next season.
So we either need to identify a successor now (that would be the Eli in your own example), and make Jones the bridge for 2022, or punt the successor to 2023, and look for someone to compete with Jones in 2022 while we sort out 2023 and beyond.
It's not a good plan to just say "we have Jones already, let's just see" because he hasn't given the team any reason to lock him in yet, so he's entering 2022 as a lame duck.
As for the money, who cost more in 2021, Jones or Trubisky? Could the latter have steered us to 4 wins?
RE: RE: I’ll interrupt this Daniel Jones debate to say that Allen’s 1st TD
Throw in the win over New England this weekend was unearthly brilliant. It may have been among the handful of the best throws I have ever seen.
Not sure if serious??? He admitted he was trying to throw the ball away.
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/josh-allen-admits-he-tried-to-throw-away-first-bills-td-to-dawson-knox/ - ( New Window )
Didn’t realize this. So it was an utterly brilliant catch. I thought Allen decided to put in a spot where it was either a TD catch or an incompletion.
Whether they love DJ or not, it’s what you have to replace him. A vet QB that’s better is about $15 mil a year. And you’re taking a cap hit for DJ, and this isn’t a QB heavy draft. They could try to trade him but with his neck that may not be worth much.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
I have lost trust in this organization over the past 5-7 years and I really want to believe that we have a guy who can steward us back to respectibiltiy and beyond.
Please hire Joe!
So, Schoen and Daboll. Lets hit the ground running, rebuild this thing and install a modern freakin offense.
that was 5 days ago..
Me too. He’d be my first choice
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he's going to Chicago.
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
Can he take you with him?
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he's going to Chicago.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
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he's going to Chicago.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
And it sounds like he wont have the final call on HC because the bears ownership is handing that separately and the HC wont report to the GM.
Hopefully if Mara is true to his words the GM will have final say of what coach he wants.
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
And it sounds like he wont have the final call on HC because the bears ownership is handing that separately and the HC wont report to the GM.
Hopefully if Mara is true to his words the GM will have final say of what coach he wants.
Technically Mara would have final say but mostly just a stamp of approval like any other owner would do.
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
He has none of the dimensions of Allen, none. He is a thin QB, 2 or 3 inches shorter.
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
You don't think the QB situation is a critical variable here?
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In comment 15559641 KDavies said:
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
And it sounds like he wont have the final call on HC because the bears ownership is handing that separately and the HC wont report to the GM.
Hopefully if Mara is true to his words the GM will have final say of what coach he wants.
Technically Mara would have final say but mostly just a stamp of approval like any other owner would do.
Well yes, every owner has final say because its there money. But it sounds like the GM in our case is going to be able to do his own HC search. The Bears are doing there HC search along with there GM search at the same time and they wont report to each other.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
He has none of the dimensions of Allen, none. He is a thin QB, 2 or 3 inches shorter.
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Stop..this is a dumb take.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
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In comment 15559641 KDavies said:
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
You don't think the QB situation is a critical variable here?
I’m sure it is a part of it, yes. But IMO, a GM would want to pick their own QB rather than a guy with a lot of warts in Fields.
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he's going to Chicago.
Stop..this is a dumb take.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
Allen had 10 TDs/12 INTs in his rookie year and only completed 52% of his passes. He couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. And Schoen had a ringside seat to that. But the talent oozed out of Allen. Like it does with Fields.
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In comment 15559648 bw in dc said:
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
He has none of the dimensions of Allen, none. He is a thin QB, 2 or 3 inches shorter.
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Stop..this is a dumb take.
1. Fields looks like shit
2. They invest multiple picks to fields and we can cut jones tomorrow. It would suck but we didnt invest multiple firsts into him
3. He can pick his qb here either in 22 or 23. He also has a few vet trade options.
Allen had 10 TDs/12 INTs in his rookie year and only completed 52% of his passes. He couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. And Schoen had a ringside seat to that. But the talent oozed out of Allen. Like it does with Fields.
there's something oozing alright...
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
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In comment 15559641 KDavies said:
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
You don't think the QB situation is a critical variable here?
Fields is now the equivalent of a new car that was driven off the lot and has some scratches on it. Still low mileage. Still shiny. But it now has some flaws. He's no longer the same squeaky clean prospect from a year ago and worse, he wasn't drafted by the any of these new GMs, including Schoen.
We aren't talking Peyton Manning 1999 here.
+10000
This is why i cant take BBI serious. You have people here who push their agenda constantly...its ridiculous
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
QB is THE piece to rebuilding a winning organization. It's just the simple. Until that problem is solved, you are swimming upstream against the rest of the league who have solved for QB.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Even before he figured out the passing side, Allen was a different kind of animal than Fields with his legs, big time touchdown rushing production in the red zone like Cam, too big and strong.
I guess there's a chance that one of these GMs LOVED fields last year and didn't fall out of love after one year of watching him struggle. But we might be stretching things a bit if you ask me. I don't think QB on the Bears or Giants really matters at this point, but I guess it's possible...
I'm comparing QB types and their first-year production.
Both Allen and Fields have very similar skill sets and similar struggles their rookie year. This shouldn't be so difficult to follow. So, pulling the "bw hates Jones" card is just lazy.
I guess there's a chance that one of these GMs LOVED fields last year and didn't fall out of love after one year of watching him struggle. But we might be stretching things a bit if you ask me. I don't think QB on the Bears or Giants really matters at this point, but I guess it's possible...
It matters more for the Bears. If a new GM there doesn't like Fields he has to pick a QB immediately after the Bears spent 2 first rounders on Fields
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
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Threw 7 TDs/10 INTs and completed 59% of his passes. And he ran for 420 yards. Allen ran for 600+.
There are some interesting similarities with their rookie years.
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Even before he figured out the passing side, Allen was a different kind of animal than Fields with his legs, big time touchdown rushing production in the red zone like Cam, too big and strong.
That's true. Allen was a big-time goal line threat.
Perhaps he doesn't believe in Fields. If that's the case, Giants would be much more attractive because he can move on from Jones very quickly, ownership in Chicago is not going to let the Bears move on from Fields quickly
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
What has Fields done to warrant your praise?
Perhaps refer me to a game so that I can see what you see
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
because terps is a boorish know it all.
🤷🏻♂️
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In comment 15559686 bw in dc said:
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
because terps is a boorish know it all.
🤷🏻♂️
Well if you look back the past couple years...
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he's going to Chicago.
Can he take you with him?
Hahaha. Perfect
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so we get to conjure up Fields and Allen comparisons after year 1 but damn you to hell if you did this with Daniel Jones!
I'm comparing QB types and their first-year production.
Both Allen and Fields have very similar skill sets and similar struggles their rookie year. This shouldn't be so difficult to follow. So, pulling the "bw hates Jones" card is just lazy.
It’s not lazy, it’s true.
You liked fields coming out of college, so you took this opportunity to bash jones one more time while simultaneously trying to pump your own guy
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In comment 15559688 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15559686 bw in dc said:
Again, I'm assuming Schoen endorsed Allen when the Bills picked up. So it's not unreasonable to think he might see the same features/upside in Fields.
Fields blows. Stop pushing your anti jones agenda dude. We get it he sucks. That being said schoen cannot cut bait with fields as easily. Jones will havw zero effect on gms choosing giants. This is evident based on the names being interviewed. Enough already
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
Pretty much agree on all points here..........
If the tie-breaker is Offensive talent he is going to Chicago and that's pretty sad when you look at the Bears offense yet they have a lot more on O than the Giants do! It is a lot more than just the QB!
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
What about him playing well next year? Could that have an affect?
Apparently he crushed his first interview. But I think most of these guys would be good choices.
If I'm Schoen, I'd rather be in NY over Chicago for the better WEATHER alone. I think half the reason Brady went south was he was sick of Boston winters. (Wouldn't surprise me).
What has Fields done to warrant your praise?
Perhaps refer me to a game so that I can see what you see
Go look at Fields's games against the 9ers and Pittsburgh.
Fields showed his arm talent and his great ability to scramble.
He's far from a finished product, but there were more than enough flashes - for me.
Jones will have zero effect on the GM choosing the Giants?
Did you just write that?
yes, i did. the new GM can cut ties with him right away...its a blank canvas...in chicago he is STUCK with fields....pretty simple concept.
youre hatred for jones is affecting every post you make at this point
Schoen wouldn't be stuck with Fields if he liked him. If he didn't like him, he might be able to find a trading partner, like Keim did with Rosen. A good GM can get very imaginative trying to solve for the QB.
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Why? He may not like Fields, and may want to draft his own QB
bw just wanted to take yet another pot shot at Jones….
I don't think it's taking a shot at Jones, who is not likely to be on the team for long when a new GM takes over and therefore probably isn't part of the equation.
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
OK then, you said he was "done here". I thought that mean new regime, DJ is outta here pronto.
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So you have seen enough of Fields to believe that he can be a good QB?
What has Fields done to warrant your praise?
Perhaps refer me to a game so that I can see what you see
Go look at Fields's games against the 9ers and Pittsburgh.
Fields showed his arm talent and his great ability to scramble.
He's far from a finished product, but there were more than enough flashes - for me.
Daniel Jones had a couple games his rookie year where he flashed and it hasn't worked out. I dont see it with Fields as a big time NFL QB.
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
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Joe Hortiz a second interview
Me too. He’d be my first choice
+2. I'm fine with Schoen, but would prefer Hortiz.
Schoen would really have to love Fields to decide that the Bears have a better QB situation. As others have said, Jones is here for one more year maximum, and then the new GM can pick his own QB. He might even be able to do so this year.
We also have two top 10 picks and double picks in the third and fifth rounds.
Your tweet is from Jan. 13. The link on this thread is from today. Things could have changed
In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Whether Fields can put it all together and become a franchise QB is obviously a very difficult question for anyone to answer.
But there is a much bigger skill set and higher ceiling than Jones.
+1
It really is insane.
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
Collinsworth mentioned Fields the other night on the Bengals-Raiders broadcast. They were talking about the Bears opening and what an electric and special talent Fields is.
I guess part of me would wants some kind of "independent, real football guys" in the room with John Mara and Steve Tisch that: 1) Isn't a family member, 2) Isn't way beyond his expiration date (see Accorsi in 2018; Polian this year) or 3) doesn't have strong ties to the organization.
I don't know who that would be, but I'm scared about "crushing an interview" relative to what Mara and Tisch think.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
The math is inconclusive because there are more variables than equations, ergo you can't solve for shit. Why are you using a thread about Schoen to take a shot at Daniel Jones when you openly admit you have no idea what you're talking about? It's just sad and childish on your part and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
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In comment 15559648 bw in dc said:
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
The math is inconclusive because there are more variables than equations, ergo you can't solve for shit. Why are you using a thread about Schoen to take a shot at Daniel Jones when you openly admit you have no idea what you're talking about? It's just sad and childish on your part and adds nothing of value to the discussion.
p.s.--If pizza is a tie-breaker than Schoen will choose the Giants because I like thin crust pizza better than deep dish pizza and so I can only assume that Schoen prefers thin crust to deep dish as well.
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
For the love of God give it a break for once.
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
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In comment 15559838 bw in dc said:
Whatever you say, Milton.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
And, IMV, it's a helluva lot easier to be sold on Fields than Jones. We have three years of data on Jones. It's average at best. We have one year on Fields.
The best opportunity at QB for a GM is to pick your own QB unless there's an established franchise guy in place like Rodgers, Brady, Russell Wilson, etc.
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
If Schoen goes to Chicago and doesn't want Fields he has to trade him. That's much harder to do than just picking a QB unless an established QB wants to play there
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In comment 15559639 Sean said:
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
Not so sure. He inherits Fields, he can choose QB here.
This is just a guess of course but do the math.
Fields has a lot of the same dimensions as Allen. Not quite as big, but a great runner and a big arm.
Fields flashed a lot of skills this year.
He has none of the dimensions of Allen, none. He is a thin QB, 2 or 3 inches shorter.
Justin Fields is thin? Come on. He's 230 lbs!
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he's going to Chicago.
For the love of God give it a break for once.
Oh, please. Have you ever been looking for a job and had multiple offers? If so, how did you manage that if you liked
each opportunity?
If there is a chance Schoen gets offers from Chicago and NY, and he likes both, what do you think his decision process should be?
Both are storied franchises. Both are big cities. Both have shaky ownership right now.
How do you break that tie without considering QB the most?
Or, if you like the assets available, trade for an established QB.
If Schoen goes to Chicago and doesn't want Fields he has to trade him. That's much harder to do than just picking a QB unless an established QB wants to play there
Both situations are risky.
There is obviously zero guarantee on a QB you draft (highest risk). On the other end, you have to hope there is a good market of established QBs - proven assets - and you have enough assets to get fair value (less risk, IMV).
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In comment 15559637 bw in dc said:
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he's going to Chicago.
For the love of God give it a break for once.
Oh, please. Have you ever been looking for a job and had multiple offers? If so, how did you manage that if you liked
each opportunity?
If there is a chance Schoen gets offers from Chicago and NY, and he likes both, what do you think his decision process should be?
Both are storied franchises. Both are big cities. Both have shaky ownership right now.
How do you break that tie without considering QB the most?
Once again, QB decision is much more straightforward in NY than Chicago, because he can move away from Jones a lot easier and pick his own QB. In Chicago he goes to a situation where he didn't pick the QB
who are significant steps above the lowly Giants.
The list seems wide, cutting edge and young. Which is what I hoped for. Now I hope they choose a great GM from it.
IMO Daniel Jones will remain a polarizing player for as long as he's on the Giants roster. Mark me down as someone who will be surprised if he's let go before the 2022 season. Hopefully if he's still on the team when training camp starts there is competition for the QB spot and no designated starter. Also mark me down as someone who has seen enough to believe Daniel Jones will never be a top 10 QB in the NFL. Also mark me down as someone who believes the Giants aren't going to win their next Super Bowl until their QB is in that discussion.
I saw a lot of Josh Allen's rookie year. His nickname should have been wild thing. Whoever the coach is that worked with him to hone in his accuracy - something that almost never happens at the NFL level, you show up and you either are accurate or you are not - is someone to keep an eye as future big time head coach or OC. That's a QB whisperer.
As far as Field's on the Bears goes. I saw nothing from him that made me think he would be a top 10 QB either. But he is really green, maybe an excellent QB coach or OC can play to his strengths.
A lot of us are disappointed the Giants didn't draft Slater or Parsons. I haven't noticed a single post that said they should have kept the pick and drafted Fields, even from the people who really want to see Jones replaced like me.
Maybe down the road if Fields develops into a top 10 QB I'll be proven wrong. But it took me about 3 games to wish the Giants had drafted Herbert instead of Andrew Thomas and I think Andrew Thomas is the best player on the Giants roster. Herbert had star elite QB written on him as soon as he got on the field. The Giants should have drafted him and dumped Jones after his rookie year. That was probably his peak value.
Some of your takes border on parody at this point.
It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
Correction - Field has really good skills. Those skills have not coalesced yet into a really good QB.
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and absolutely true.
Fields is not considered to be garbage outside of the BBI bubble. He has shown enough for many observers to still think he has a shot to be an elite QB.
If Schoen shares that opinion, then objectively, the Chicago job is better, in reference to the pieces on the field.
He still might choose the Giants for other reasons, no doubt.
But if he likes Fields, he will believe the Bears have a shot at a star QB in-house, and the Giants do not. That's a big advantage, and certainly trumps on extra top-10 pick.
When you say observers, are you referring to NFL analysts? I haven't seen anyone really tout Fields as being potentially elite.
And I don't dislike Fields, I just really haven't heard that.
I have heard it.
What is clear is that Jones is almost a zilch, in terms of material that would make this an attractive destination.
Fields is not a zilch. How Schoen grades Fields may very well decide which job he chooses, if he is offered both.
A lot of people were critical of Nagy for failing to scheme for Fields' unique talents. And in the last few games Fields played he showed some real promise with an electric arm and running ability.
Jones had a much more impressive rookie year than Fields. And then it didn’t work out for him the next 2 seasons.
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It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
So if Schoen chooses the Giants over the Bears will you assume it's because he prefers Jones to Fields or will you pivot to the myriad of other factors that go into making such an important career decision?
I'll assume he likes the opportunity with QB in NY better than Chicago.
If that would be based on Jones being considered > than Fields, or the ability to find a solution better than Jones easier, I obviously don't know.
The Giants have a vacancy.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
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In comment 15559838 bw in dc said:
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It all seems clear to me - a person seeking a GM position would want to go to the place that has the best opportunity at QB.
So if Schoen chooses the Giants over the Bears will you assume it's because he prefers Jones to Fields or will you pivot to the myriad of other factors that go into making such an important career decision?
I'll assume he likes the opportunity with QB in NY better than Chicago.
If that would be based on Jones being considered > than Fields, or the ability to find a solution better than Jones easier, I obviously don't know.
Two top 10 picks in NY vs no 1st round picks in Chicago is also a factor
We all need to stop speaking in absolutes BUT, Mara aklready said the QB is the Gm and HC's decision. That seems like something that has been established with candidates already.
We can stop the overkill though- like saying get Roman here and bring over Huntley. There whole offense is built around the QB running and has been stopped in the playoffs (with Jackson).. Huntley is a great backup for Jackson but building an offense around him would expose his massive flaws.
Jones had a much more impressive rookie year than Fields. And then it didn’t work out for him the next 2 seasons.
All of that is fair.
But by now we have three years of data on Jones. The answer is likely settled.
Fields is still a very firm TBD.
Now, if Schoen can bring Daboll with him as the HC, my guess is he'll lean on his expertise on which situation is more promising.
I went back and viewed both the 49s and the Steelers games
In the Steeler game
Fields showed more than I expected he had (4) nice throws and good speed
But he also had some cringe worthy plays such as the interception to Heyward
In the 49 game he also made some nice throws and good speed
in general he was better than I thought
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In comment 15559762 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
I went back and viewed both the 49s and the Steelers games
In the Steeler game
Fields showed more than I expected he had (4) nice throws and good speed
But he also had some cringe worthy plays such as the interception to Heyward
In the 49 game he also made some nice throws and good speed
in general he was better than I thought
I actually really appreciate that you did that. Thank you.
I'm not patronizing you, but I wish more posters would do things like this.
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In comment 15559779 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559762 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
I fully agree with you BUT, what if a new GM and HC feel the crop coming (regardless of how you feel about them) isn't worth the draft capital this year and they prefer to build other positions this year through the draft, save money for next season and draft or sign the QB they want?
I am on board with Jones is not the answer BUT our cap situation will dictate what happens. Either way, I think Jones's healthy will keep him from playing anyway.
If Schoen is making this decision on the QB position alone...I don't know if I'd want him here in the first place.
The Giants have a vacancy.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
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The Bears have a prospect.
The Giants have a vacancy.
Fields is a talented guy with a wide range of potential outcomes.
Jones is not a factor here. He is established as a non-entity. He may stick around as part of a wasted year in 22 but he is part of no future plans. Jones is an inconsequential NFL player. He will make many millions of dollars standing on the sidelines in the future. But he is not even a remote consideration for any kind of long term build
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
Keeping Jones is not the same as liking him. It is possible that a new GM says Jones + Mariota/Trubisky type + Not using one of our first 3 picks on a QB is better than any QB option in 2022 Draft
You once trusted Gettleman, right? ;)
Both organizations are similar in terms of how they operate, so that part is a wash.
Good post. I would only edit your last paragraph to say, "Jones should not be a factor here".
Because the new GM could actually like Jones. In which case, I think we may have hired the wrong guy.
Keeping Jones is not the same as liking him. It is possible that a new GM says Jones + Mariota/Trubisky type + Not using one of our first 3 picks on a QB is better than any QB option in 2022 Draft
Under those parameters, you are correct.
I was suggesting if Jones is given his 4th year - assuming health - with no competition. Just another journeyman like a Glennon-type.
It doesn't seem like a sound system.
More like it only makes sense to trust a new GM/HC on the upcoming Jones and Saquon decisions because everyone else in the NY Giant decision-making apparatus is a bit tainted right now.
Oh, and you can trust me of course...
It doesn't seem like a sound system.
If this is true then NY is definitely a more appealing spot than Chicago because he has two top 10 picks and Schoen gets to pick his coach
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
It doesn't seem like a sound system.
Did you see that McCaskey press conference last week?
JFC, what a perfect marriage Gettleman and McCaskey would have been...
I'm not too worried about it; can't imagine any of these GM candidates being ok with that. Hopefully he's somewhere else in 2022. Maybe he'll go to the Chargers and send Herbert to the bench...
Seriously though, any snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather give it to someone that we have a potential interest in as a starter beyond 2022.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
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If Jones is still on this roster in 2023...(banging head on desk).
I'm not too worried about it; can't imagine any of these GM candidates being ok with that. Hopefully he's somewhere else in 2022. Maybe he'll go to the Chargers and send Herbert to the bench...
Seriously though, any snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather give it to someone that we have a potential interest in as a starter beyond 2022.
The problem is I am not sure that that QB exists. The ones with the most potential in 2023 and beyond everybody says they need to redshirt this year and you are possibly derailing their upside by developing bad habits borne out of the necessity to survive before they are ready.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
Totally agree with this. The Jets, Browns and I'm sure others punted on Watson and Mahomes because the 2018 QB class was supposed to be the best QB class in years.
The superior 2023 class thing is a trap. I can tell you already what those discussions will sound like:
- Bryce Young is tiny and played with the best supporting cast
- CJ Stroud will be the latest in the long line of Ohio State QBs that lived on go routes and mesh concepts to the fastest wide receivers in the Big Ten
You're going to be able to poke holes in nearly every prospect. If we're sitting around waiting for John Elway or Peyton Manning we're going to be waiting a long time.
I know Jones burned is but we've got to keep dipping our toe in the water.
Generally okay with sentiments here. Including not just waiting around because of some belief that 2023 is that much better than 2022.
But using #5 pick (or like #6 with Jones) is not dipping your toe in the water...it's saying I know QBs and I found my next franchise guy. If want to dip your toe in with #25 (via trade down or trade up) or an early second rounder then fine. Dip away...
Another option is to take a QB at 7, in a trade down, or in round 2, keep Jones, start Jones to open the year while a new QB learns.
There are multiple options here but I’m fairly certain just letting go of Jones doesn’t make much sense for 2022.
Let the draft pick play and take his lumps from day one. That will serve him better for the start of year two than sitting on the bench would.
He’ll play if he’s a better option than Jones. I thought we weren’t giving out scholarships?
I don't think he sucks. He does suck.
And there's been a lot more that I and others have said beyond that fact.
Another option is to take a QB at 7, in a trade down, or in round 2, keep Jones, start Jones to open the year while a new QB learns.
There are multiple options here but I’m fairly certain just letting go of Jones doesn’t make much sense for 2022.
Keeping Jones as a trading asset or backup QB is one thing.
Making him the de facto Starting QB for 2022 would be an egregious mistake...
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Jones will play if he’s the best option on the roster. That remains to be seen. See how the draft plays out and if the GM likes any of these QBs.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
I've been as pro Jones as anybody.
If that's the new GM's plan. That would fucking suck.
Slotting Jones in to start so we can tank next year is a loser mentality I hope no GM coming in has.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
yea while most of BBI agrees on jones, hearing terps and bw is getting exhausting.
As ive stated, i think jones is a nonfactor here when it comes to a GM making a decision. they know they can cut bait right away and most likely will after 22 if not before 22.
I think we should jus all relax. We wanted an outsider to be GM, we are gonna get it...now we wait and see. we cant play both sides of the fence and say i want an outsider, oh boo hoo the outsider didnt do what i wanted. WE dont make the decisions, they do. we can cry for months and repeat the same shit over and over (terps and bw) or we can be excited and hope better things are to come. I genuinely believe bw and terps want the franchise to stay shit because they like hearing themselves
This tends to be how things shake out. Which means if they did start Jones for 2022, it would be very odd and not a good sign.
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
Jones will play if he’s the best option on the roster. That remains to be seen. See how the draft plays out and if the GM likes any of these QBs.
Jones should play if he is the best option on the roster. Except, of course, the GM & HC that thought that same way this year went 4-13 with that mindset and lost their jobs because of it.
So hopefully the next GM/HC can find better options. Funny how you named two QBs above that both beat the Giants fairly easily this season...
To me, having a good QB in place is much bigger lure for a head coach than GM. A GM may want to draft his own QB, not build around someone else’s.
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Jones sucks blah blah blah. Again - see what the new GM thinks and how he wants to play it. Talking about it now is pointless.
12-25
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Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
Nope.
Besides, this discussion isn't about Jones. It's about the mindset of the incoming GM, as well as the attractiveness of the job vs. a job on a team with a set QB.
This isn't about Jones. Jones is an irrelevant afterthought.
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
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In comment 15560090 ryanmkeane said:
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
i think EVERYONE agrees he isnt the guy, but bw is already looking to shit on the new GM before we hire him with, "if he starts jonesi n 22, we picked wrong gm" I dont think thats a fair assessment. I think the new GM can decide jones isnt the guy but starting him in 22 is whats best as we turn the roster over. what if new gm likes NON of the qbs? what if he doesnt want to trade assets for a vet qb? jones is the guy by default and after 22 we move on via draft
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In comment 15559779 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559762 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
Keep Jones as a backup play? Is there a way to sign him to the AVG league backup salary or something? If so, I'd keep him around for a while...
Otherwise, we're stuck with him for next season unless we sign a seasoned vet
A few things:
—The prior GM has been criticized for just about all of his moves, yet the Jones pick is going to work?
—12-25 as a starting QB
—Has not shown he can stay healthy
—Already entering the 4th year of his rookie contract, the window has been missed.
Surprised this is still a debate.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
When the rookie this year or next year comes in they’ll be playing behind a line that has hopefully gelled.
Jones will then go the Trubisky/Mariota/David Carr path and carve out a niche somewhere as a backup with starting experience.
When you see the Mike Glennon’s of the world you realize how long a career Jones could have as a backup.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Lol
He can't help himself - it fucks with his narrative...
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thinks Daniel Jones sucks, really happy how this thread turned out.
I don't think he sucks. He does suck.
And there's been a lot more that I and others have said beyond that fact.
ANd yet again, you fucking ignore his surrounding cast.
But yet, your narrative...
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In comment 15559670 bw in dc said:
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
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It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
Yes, we know your fucking opinion - you've made that clear, time, and time - and time - again.
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Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Because any GM in the league is 1,000 times smarter than you?
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In comment 15560051 Go Terps said:
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Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
12-25
Again - that;s not all on Jones. Espcecially given the shit around him...
The bears suck and are poorly coached, so in less than 16 starts fields is a closed book?
We can't agree Jones stinks after 37 starts.
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In comment 15559683 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15559670 bw in dc said:
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
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In comment 15560073 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15560051 Go Terps said:
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Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
What's the narrative?
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In comment 15560090 ryanmkeane said:
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
12-25
Again - that;s not all on Jones. Espcecially given the shit around him...
All on Jones? No, but he deserves a fair share of the blame for it.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I'm not going to count out a guy with that tool kit after one year. Why should when I can list many examples of notable QBs who struggled in YR1, but then improved YR2 and beyond.
Meanwhile Jones, who had a decent rookie campaign, has regressed for three consecutive years. Proving that what happens in YR1 can be very misleading.
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I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
That’s what I was saying. Haskins is immobile. Robinson missed games late in the year but it was his worst statistical season ever outside of the year he tore his ACL earlier in his career.
Jury is still out in Fields. But I was agreeing with you about Haskins. He is not comparable to Allen or Fields. May have a better arm than Fields, but definitely can’t run like him.
His roster bonus is presumably due the 5th day or so of the league year (March week 3). If you read the tea leaves, he won’t be able to pass a physical before then, therefore it’s difficult to trade him.
Once that bonus is paid, there’s virtually no financial upside (less than 1M) in trading him, or cutting him (200K).
Now if Jones and Jim Denton know the Giants won’t exercise the option and intend on drafting a QB, maybe they’re allowed to pursue a trade. They can sell the story it didn’t work out, get healthy, change of scenery.
Jones on a 1 year/900K deal could draw a conditional pick.
The Jones situation isn’t a huge problem for the new GM. But Jones is a problem for the new coach. He’s hurt, he’s been bad, and he’ll be on system 3 in 4 years. Coaches don’t get a lot of burner years. A new coach doesn’t get to throw one away. Especially in the wake of the last 3 guys getting 2 years and plank.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
It bears repeating considering how his fans still expect him to reach some height he's never been to.
The very first post to this thread links a Twitter comment saying Schoen was actually interested in both the Giants and Bears GM openings. Just scroll up. That's where this started.
I thought that was very interesting and wondered what would swing Schoen's decision one way or another if offered booth jobs. The obvious answer seemed to be QB and which team had the better opportunity. I think Fields has a big upside and he's likely going to have a breakout sophomore season. So, it would seem like a smart decision for Schoen to choose Chicago.
Please accept my apology for forgetting our situation is so good that it would be insane for any GM candidate to possibly choose another opportunity instead.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Allen didn't have nearly as bad a rookie year you claim he did. He didn't have a 26.0 QBR.
I'm not counting him out. But he's not a kind of prospect potential GMs/coaches will be rushing to go manage/HC for.
Apparently it can be said tens of thousands of times, with no end in sight.
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As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
You're both great posters, so I feel bad laughing at this, but when a GIF perfectly aligns with a reply, it's a treasure to behold.
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test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
Milton posting on BBI with his phone...
All the people who like Jones criticize the Giants OL, receivers, coaches, etc. But that's not "being a dick" or a troll? What's the difference?
who are significant steps above the lowly Giants.
No they aren't.
Hypothetically, new GM and HC punt Jones into the sun, do you think the Defense Force isn't going to immediately start ripping them?
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As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
That got an LOL out of me! And for good reason (it's never good form to be spouting test scores from your teenage years).
Gettleman and Judge are gone because Daniel Jones sucked.
If Daniel Jones had just a little magic and won a few games on talent, even with the losing, both would likely still be here. All Mara needed was a little hope but Jones poor play got those men canned, they were tied to his success.
BW trolls and you guys troll him. Is what it is. Stop complaining and own it.
Not sure if serious??? He admitted he was trying to throw the ball away.
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/josh-allen-admits-he-tried-to-throw-away-first-bills-td-to-dawson-knox/ - ( New Window )
I think it's the whole "Jones sucks" thing.
Can we just acknowledge that we all knew Warner was a placeholder at the time? He was taking over for Collins, who I think the franchise (and fans) would have rather kept as the bridge. But both Collins and Warner were someone else's QBs first, so there wasn't a firstborn attachment. And with that transition, there was a new baby in the house - everyone was eager to see Eli.
That's not what we're dealing with here. With Jones, we have a get-out policy taking form. And his price tag does matter. I know you don't give a fuck about the salary cap, but it's a real thing, and Jones is currently cheap, but that won't be the case after next season.
So we either need to identify a successor now (that would be the Eli in your own example), and make Jones the bridge for 2022, or punt the successor to 2023, and look for someone to compete with Jones in 2022 while we sort out 2023 and beyond.
It's not a good plan to just say "we have Jones already, let's just see" because he hasn't given the team any reason to lock him in yet, so he's entering 2022 as a lame duck.
As for the money, who cost more in 2021, Jones or Trubisky? Could the latter have steered us to 4 wins?
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Throw in the win over New England this weekend was unearthly brilliant. It may have been among the handful of the best throws I have ever seen.
Not sure if serious??? He admitted he was trying to throw the ball away.
https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/16/josh-allen-admits-he-tried-to-throw-away-first-bills-td-to-dawson-knox/ - ( New Window )
Didn’t realize this. So it was an utterly brilliant catch. I thought Allen decided to put in a spot where it was either a TD catch or an incompletion.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
My thoughts exactly