why would it be a mistake? Because someone like a Teddy Bridgewater or Dalton type QB is going to be a better option?
Jones will play if he’s the best option on the roster. That remains to be seen. See how the draft plays out and if the GM likes any of these QBs.
Jones should play if he is the best option on the roster. Except, of course, the GM & HC that thought that same way this year went 4-13 with that mindset and lost their jobs because of it.
So hopefully the next GM/HC can find better options. Funny how you named two QBs above that both beat the Giants fairly easily this season...
To get a QB of the GMs choosing. In Chi, it’s Fields and he has no say, plus if Fields is good, he’s someone else’s legacy. At least in NY, if he likes someone this year he has draft capital and likely authority to go get him. If he doesn’t, he can focus on Oline this year so a QB he takes next year will be protected.
To me, having a good QB in place is much bigger lure for a head coach than GM. A GM may want to draft his own QB, not build around someone else’s.
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
Sweet Jesus, STFU about Daniel Jones. Tiresome ...
Nope.
Besides, this discussion isn't about Jones. It's about the mindset of the incoming GM, as well as the attractiveness of the job vs. a job on a team with a set QB.
This isn't about Jones. Jones is an irrelevant afterthought.
The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
i think EVERYONE agrees he isnt the guy, but bw is already looking to shit on the new GM before we hire him with, "if he starts jonesi n 22, we picked wrong gm" I dont think thats a fair assessment. I think the new GM can decide jones isnt the guy but starting him in 22 is whats best as we turn the roster over. what if new gm likes NON of the qbs? what if he doesnt want to trade assets for a vet qb? jones is the guy by default and after 22 we move on via draft
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No GM is going to want Jones
He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
Keep Jones as a backup play? Is there a way to sign him to the AVG league backup salary or something? If so, I'd keep him around for a while...
Otherwise, we're stuck with him for next season unless we sign a seasoned vet
I’m surprised the Jones conversation is still going on
New GM incoming with what would be Jones’ 3rd HC. I’d think it would all be assumed the team is moving on at QB.
A few things:
—The prior GM has been criticized for just about all of his moves, yet the Jones pick is going to work?
—12-25 as a starting QB
—Has not shown he can stay healthy
—Already entering the 4th year of his rookie contract, the window has been missed.
test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
even if they do, the most financially prudent move would be to keep Jones in 2022. Let him take the lumps with the essentially brand new offensive line we will have outside of Thomas and maybe Lemieux.
When the rookie this year or next year comes in they’ll be playing behind a line that has hopefully gelled.
Jones will then go the Trubisky/Mariota/David Carr path and carve out a niche somewhere as a backup with starting experience.
When you see the Mike Glennon’s of the world you realize how long a career Jones could have as a backup.
Why not start a separate thread to discuss your POV's on Justin Fields, Daniel Jones, etc? Once again a thread that had nothing to do with Daniel Jones has turned into a discussion about him.
It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
Yes, we know your fucking opinion - you've made that clear, time, and time - and time - again.
with what I've seen of Jones so far, but then I'm not nearly as qualified as the new GM to evaluate his potential. So, whatever the new GM thinks is best for the Giants Re: Jones, keep him, evaluate him with new coaching, new scheme, hopefully fewer injuries or Covid problems, OR, can him and spend draft capital and/or cap maneuvers to bring someone else for this year, it will be absolutely fine with me. I'm going to start the make-over period by trusting the new GM.
Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Because any GM in the league is 1,000 times smarter than you?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
Who know football would waste time arguing that a qb sucks after 1 year in which his coach and GM got blown out the door for incompetence in roster building.
The bears suck and are poorly coached, so in less than 16 starts fields is a closed book?
We can't agree Jones stinks after 37 starts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I'm not going to count out a guy with that tool kit after one year. Why should when I can list many examples of notable QBs who struggled in YR1, but then improved YR2 and beyond.
Meanwhile Jones, who had a decent rookie campaign, has regressed for three consecutive years. Proving that what happens in YR1 can be very misleading.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: If the tie-breaker is QB...
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
That’s what I was saying. Haskins is immobile. Robinson missed games late in the year but it was his worst statistical season ever outside of the year he tore his ACL earlier in his career.
Jury is still out in Fields. But I was agreeing with you about Haskins. He is not comparable to Allen or Fields. May have a better arm than Fields, but definitely can’t run like him.
The reality is Jones likely will be a Giant next year due to his injury.
His roster bonus is presumably due the 5th day or so of the league year (March week 3). If you read the tea leaves, he won’t be able to pass a physical before then, therefore it’s difficult to trade him.
Once that bonus is paid, there’s virtually no financial upside (less than 1M) in trading him, or cutting him (200K).
Now if Jones and Jim Denton know the Giants won’t exercise the option and intend on drafting a QB, maybe they’re allowed to pursue a trade. They can sell the story it didn’t work out, get healthy, change of scenery.
Jones on a 1 year/900K deal could draw a conditional pick.
The Jones situation isn’t a huge problem for the new GM. But Jones is a problem for the new coach. He’s hurt, he’s been bad, and he’ll be on system 3 in 4 years. Coaches don’t get a lot of burner years. A new coach doesn’t get to throw one away. Especially in the wake of the last 3 guys getting 2 years and plank.
Christian. That pretty much lays out the situation with Jones. He’s going to be here in 2022. Last year of his rookie deal, they won’t pick up the 5th year option. If they do it will likely be rescinded.
RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
test on what's best to do with Jones in 2022/23. But yet...it has.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
No it's because he's being a dick by throwing in a Jones potshot on a thread about Schoen. Is he posting something new? No. Is he basing his opinion on anything that's been reported? No. Is he as big a dick as Go Terps? Not by a long shot. That's why his juvenile trolling is so disappointing. He's supposed to be one of the grown ups (I like bw in dc and generally value his opinion, but this is just childishness born out of boredom and he needed to be called out for it).
The very first post to this thread links a Twitter comment saying Schoen was actually interested in both the Giants and Bears GM openings. Just scroll up. That's where this started.
I thought that was very interesting and wondered what would swing Schoen's decision one way or another if offered booth jobs. The obvious answer seemed to be QB and which team had the better opportunity. I think Fields has a big upside and he's likely going to have a breakout sophomore season. So, it would seem like a smart decision for Schoen to choose Chicago.
Please accept my apology for forgetting our situation is so good that it would be insane for any GM candidate to possibly choose another opportunity instead.
RE: RE: A thread on Joe Schoen shouldn't turn into an intelligence
As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
Whether they love DJ or not, it’s what you have to replace him. A vet QB that’s better is about $15 mil a year. And you’re taking a cap hit for DJ, and this isn’t a QB heavy draft. They could try to trade him but with his neck that may not be worth much.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
Jones will play if he’s the best option on the roster. That remains to be seen. See how the draft plays out and if the GM likes any of these QBs.
Jones should play if he is the best option on the roster. Except, of course, the GM & HC that thought that same way this year went 4-13 with that mindset and lost their jobs because of it.
So hopefully the next GM/HC can find better options. Funny how you named two QBs above that both beat the Giants fairly easily this season...
To me, having a good QB in place is much bigger lure for a head coach than GM. A GM may want to draft his own QB, not build around someone else’s.
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Jones sucks blah blah blah. Again - see what the new GM thinks and how he wants to play it. Talking about it now is pointless.
12-25
Quote:
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
Nope.
Besides, this discussion isn't about Jones. It's about the mindset of the incoming GM, as well as the attractiveness of the job vs. a job on a team with a set QB.
This isn't about Jones. Jones is an irrelevant afterthought.
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
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In comment 15560090 ryanmkeane said:
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
Dude. Jones sucks. Give it up. He is a good kid, hard worker...but he isn't a QB we're winning shit with. We've seen enough.
This, if Jones and a good portion of the other injured players were healthy we’d have 7 or 8 wins max. Jones is not the guy.
i think EVERYONE agrees he isnt the guy, but bw is already looking to shit on the new GM before we hire him with, "if he starts jonesi n 22, we picked wrong gm" I dont think thats a fair assessment. I think the new GM can decide jones isnt the guy but starting him in 22 is whats best as we turn the roster over. what if new gm likes NON of the qbs? what if he doesnt want to trade assets for a vet qb? jones is the guy by default and after 22 we move on via draft
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In comment 15559779 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559762 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559733 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15559726 BillKo said:
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In comment 15559704 Go Terps said:
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He's done here unless Mara mandates him. In that case, just turn your calendars back to 2018.
I mean, how do you even know what a new GM is thinking?
Because the case to the contrary is absurd. Why is an incoming GM going to want to commit to a QB with Jones's resume and a possible neck issue? We just fired the only GM stupid enough to even think about doing that.
Game out the near future. What scenario has Jones here for longer than 2022?
Who's committing to Jones?
He could be on the roster for just 2022.
That's a commitment?
The issue I have w/ you is if Jones sniffs any part of Met Life this coming season you're going to blame Mara.
I'll blame Mara if Jones is on the team beyond 2022. I can see him being a cheap placeholder in 2022, which is not something I would do but it's a possible first step in a complete rebuild.
Jones shouldn't be here in 2022, but he can not be here in 2023. That's a five alarm fire.
A new GM and coach decide to keep Jones in 2023, and you blame Mara?
Wow.
Is there a GM and coach on earth stupid enough to pay Jones another contract to play for the Giants? Outside of Gettleman, I doubt it.
Keep Jones as a backup play? Is there a way to sign him to the AVG league backup salary or something? If so, I'd keep him around for a while...
Otherwise, we're stuck with him for next season unless we sign a seasoned vet
A few things:
—The prior GM has been criticized for just about all of his moves, yet the Jones pick is going to work?
—12-25 as a starting QB
—Has not shown he can stay healthy
—Already entering the 4th year of his rookie contract, the window has been missed.
Surprised this is still a debate.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
When the rookie this year or next year comes in they’ll be playing behind a line that has hopefully gelled.
Jones will then go the Trubisky/Mariota/David Carr path and carve out a niche somewhere as a backup with starting experience.
When you see the Mike Glennon’s of the world you realize how long a career Jones could have as a backup.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Lol
He can't help himself - it fucks with his narrative...
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thinks Daniel Jones sucks, really happy how this thread turned out.
I don't think he sucks. He does suck.
And there's been a lot more that I and others have said beyond that fact.
ANd yet again, you fucking ignore his surrounding cast.
But yet, your narrative...
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In comment 15559670 bw in dc said:
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
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It's not just about his low level of quality (face it he's a day 2/day 3 level talent that was drafted because of Eli/Cutcliffe), it's about timing and cost.
There is no rational case to be made for Jones being here in 2023. That's why I'd pin his presence here in 2023 on Mara, who is decidedly subjective and irrational.
The people being interviewed for GM all seem smart; they're not going to want Jones as the long term QB.
I think it's a waste of time and roster spot to keep Jones around in 2022. I said on a different thread, I would unload Jones for any pick right now - 5th, 6th, 7th. Whatever a team is willing to risk.
Yes, we know your fucking opinion - you've made that clear, time, and time - and time - again.
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Your mind is made up. Why do you continue to say this on a daily basis? Nobody wants to hear your thoughts on Jones anymore other than yourself. I think the rest of us will see what the new GM thinks.
Let me guess. New GM likes Jones and wants to wait it out. Will you want that GM fired?
Why would any new GM like Jones?
Because any GM in the league is 1,000 times smarter than you?
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In comment 15560051 Go Terps said:
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Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
12-25
Again - that;s not all on Jones. Espcecially given the shit around him...
The bears suck and are poorly coached, so in less than 16 starts fields is a closed book?
We can't agree Jones stinks after 37 starts.
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In comment 15559683 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15559670 bw in dc said:
Fields is 6'3", 230 with a rifle and great speed to improvise.
I said he wasn't the size of Allen, but they do have similar attributes...no?
Dwayne Haskins has similar attributes to Allen as well - how’d they work out?
Like i said, the GM would want his own guy
Haskins did? Haskins has nowhere near the mobility and athleticism as Allen or Fields.
Yes, he does - he has the same (or at least similiar) size, mobility and athleticism
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
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In comment 15560073 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15560051 Go Terps said:
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Why would any new GM like Jones?
Two scenarios - (1) He actually does like Jones, and thinks he has the right team (HC, OC, etc) to fix him, which means we picked the wrong GM. Or (2) the new GM has no choice due to ownership intervention.
another awful take.
yes the GM sucks because he goes with jones in 22.
you ever think, they want to build the rest of the roster out first? give jones a year under the OC THEY like? let that contract play out and move on in 23? Any of that is possible. it doesnt mean the GM sucks, it might just be the smart play vs making a trade for a stopgap vet or overdrafting a rookie because you "have a need"
i think regardless of who GM is, jones very well could be starter in 22 but no way beyond that (unless some insanely rare thing happens and jones has a year but that wont so he is starter for jus 22 imo).
again, if the gm thinks there is a better option take it, but my point is, there may not be a better option. the upside of jones with the OC they like may be higher than a mariota or coral
bw and terps don't like anything that fucks with their narrative...
What's the narrative?
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In comment 15560090 ryanmkeane said:
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The Giants went 4-13 because of Daniel Jones? Right.
12-25
Again - that;s not all on Jones. Espcecially given the shit around him...
All on Jones? No, but he deserves a fair share of the blame for it.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Of course you won't count out Fields. Because you backed him coming out of school.
He's been -overall - complete shit. A moment here and there, but not not significantly better than Jones. But he's he has great physical traits, so he gets a scholarship!
I'm not going to count out a guy with that tool kit after one year. Why should when I can list many examples of notable QBs who struggled in YR1, but then improved YR2 and beyond.
Meanwhile Jones, who had a decent rookie campaign, has regressed for three consecutive years. Proving that what happens in YR1 can be very misleading.
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I agree with a lot of your comments on this thread speedy, but not this one. Haskins is super immobile. Allen for a big dude jukes out defenders like he’s half his size and he also runs with some power which is rare for a QB.
Fields is more athletic than Haskins, particularly foot speed, but his rookie year left much to be desired from an actual throwing perspective. When you can’t find a way to get the ball to Allen Robinson (who has succeeded with every level of QB imaginable) then I’m not sure what your future looks like in the NFL.
Fields ran a 4.43 forty. I'm not sure Haskins broke 5.
Fields can run faster backwards.
Didn't Robinson miss something like six games this year?
That’s what I was saying. Haskins is immobile. Robinson missed games late in the year but it was his worst statistical season ever outside of the year he tore his ACL earlier in his career.
Jury is still out in Fields. But I was agreeing with you about Haskins. He is not comparable to Allen or Fields. May have a better arm than Fields, but definitely can’t run like him.
His roster bonus is presumably due the 5th day or so of the league year (March week 3). If you read the tea leaves, he won’t be able to pass a physical before then, therefore it’s difficult to trade him.
Once that bonus is paid, there’s virtually no financial upside (less than 1M) in trading him, or cutting him (200K).
Now if Jones and Jim Denton know the Giants won’t exercise the option and intend on drafting a QB, maybe they’re allowed to pursue a trade. They can sell the story it didn’t work out, get healthy, change of scenery.
Jones on a 1 year/900K deal could draw a conditional pick.
The Jones situation isn’t a huge problem for the new GM. But Jones is a problem for the new coach. He’s hurt, he’s been bad, and he’ll be on system 3 in 4 years. Coaches don’t get a lot of burner years. A new coach doesn’t get to throw one away. Especially in the wake of the last 3 guys getting 2 years and plank.
bw in dc shot out a fairly straight-forward post that got a bunch of you all riled up for whatever your particular reason is. Although my guess, for many, it's to challenge the critic versus think through the logic...
As for challenging the critic, he didn't post a criticism. He presented an uninformed hypothetical and then backed it up with an uninformed assumption. As for whether it's an intelligence test, gimme a beak! If you want to challenge me to an IQ test just name the time and place, I scored 27 points above genius the last time I took one (45 years ago).
It bears repeating considering how his fans still expect him to reach some height he's never been to.
The very first post to this thread links a Twitter comment saying Schoen was actually interested in both the Giants and Bears GM openings. Just scroll up. That's where this started.
I thought that was very interesting and wondered what would swing Schoen's decision one way or another if offered booth jobs. The obvious answer seemed to be QB and which team had the better opportunity. I think Fields has a big upside and he's likely going to have a breakout sophomore season. So, it would seem like a smart decision for Schoen to choose Chicago.
Please accept my apology for forgetting our situation is so good that it would be insane for any GM candidate to possibly choose another opportunity instead.
It may very well be that the new GM would like to move on from DJ long term but doesn’t think it’s the best use of resources this particular year. They may take some cap hits this year to clear space, and run with DJ. They find out what they have there, let him compete with whatever option they can afford, and spend their money this year on other holes. Then if DJ isn’t the guy they replace him after there’s no cap hit to let him walk.
Whatever they do, saying it’s a bad move a priori is ridiculous.
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Was worse as a rookie than both Jones and Trubisky ever were.
But sky's is the limit, huh.
Okay.
And Jones also had a better year rookie year than Allen's rookie year. Yet, Allen is now one of the top five QBs in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.
Eli Manning was brutally bad his first year. Are you ready to give him on Trevor Lawrence after his poor rookie year?
So, I wouldn't count the super-talented Fields out just yet.
Allen didn't have nearly as bad a rookie year you claim he did. He didn't have a 26.0 QBR.
I'm not counting him out. But he's not a kind of prospect potential GMs/coaches will be rushing to go manage/HC for.
Apparently it can be said tens of thousands of times, with no end in sight.