I speculated on this in the Poles thread. What if Horitz told Mara he would want to pursue Harbaugh? Might be something they disagree on fundamentally and arent a match.
The single biggest failure over our last 10 years regarding the draft is not finding any hidden gems from the 3rd round or later.
Since Hortiz got promoted to Director of College Scouting in 2009 the Ravens have drafted 16 Pro Bowlers and six First-Team All-Pros. If I remember it correctly, the really interesting fact is that 10 of those Pro Bowlers came from the 3rd round and later.
it has anything to do with who Hortiz would want as coach.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
it has anything to do with who Hortiz would want as coach.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
Most GM candidates would relish the chance to turn over a roster. They don’t need to win right away. They can play the long game.
it has anything to do with who Hortiz would want as coach.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
Most GM candidates would relish the chance to turn over a roster. They don’t need to win right away. They can play the long game.
I'm sure some look at it this way, but some might also want to wait for a better fit where you at least have some good young players in place on rookie deals where you can turn over a roster but also have something to work with from the start.
The roster and cap flexibility has to be the worst in the NFL going forward.
I heard that DeCosta is telling Hortiz to wait for a better fit than the Giants.
doesn't get a 2nd interview it likely means that what my buddy heard was true. He seems like a terrific candidate. I'd be happy with a few guys but Hortiz is the one I want most.
may be telling that to Hortiz just to keep him around for at least one more year.
We can create cap room this year but cutting or not resigning some players. We'll also likely have a lot more cap room in 2023 after even more cuts, and may get some comp picks for Hernandez, Engram, etc.
it has anything to do with who Hortiz would want as coach.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
This isn't true. They can create plenty of cap space for 2023 as long as they don't do anything stupid this offseason.
that's unlikely that he would advise him to not take a job simply to keep him around. They have worked together for a long, long time and while I'm sure he doesn't want to lose him, I dont think he'd give him advice like that unless he truly believes it's a bad fit. I think these guys want to see the people under them get promoted and succeed.
It is interesting how the Ravens front office is. Guys never leave. DeCosta has never been with anyone else. Hortiz hasn't been anywhere else. Ozzie Newsome was only with the Ravens organization (Browns before thye becams the ravens). Kokinis has been with the Ravens all but one year where he was Browns GM in 2009, besides that his entire career has been with the Ravens.
It seems like Ravens front office people rarely leave. My buddy said the Ravens pay their front office staff more than anyone in the league and all work very well together and you rarely see people leave as a result and flat out said DeCosta is telling Hortiz not to take the Giants job if offered. Doesn't mean Hortiz will listen, but thats what he was told.
All I keep hearing is the ravens have been good for 20 years and Hortiz has been there so get him. Why has he never been a top candidate before now? What does he know about building an organization that’s a complete mess when the one he has been so good so good for long
that the Ravens GM is telling Hortiz that the Giants job isnt a good fit. We'll see if thats true
That's interesting. Where did you hear that?
One of my best friends all the way back to elementary school is a writer for Sports Illustrated. I called him this morning to pick his brain and he told me that DeCosta is telling hortiz not to take Giants job. As I said in previous post he brought up how close the ravens front office is and that they pay incredibly well and rarely lose front office people. The 3 top guys have spent pretty much their entire careers with the Ravens.
He didn't seem to think the ownership issues were that big of a deal in Hortiz case but the lack of any type of depth on the roster and not really having anything besides maybe a LT in place for the future is why DeCosta is advising him not to take it.
that the Ravens GM is telling Hortiz that the Giants job isnt a good fit. We'll see if thats true
That's interesting. Where did you hear that?
One of my best friends all the way back to elementary school is a writer for Sports Illustrated. I called him this morning to pick his brain and he told me that DeCosta is telling hortiz not to take Giants job. As I said in previous post he brought up how close the ravens front office is and that they pay incredibly well and rarely lose front office people. The 3 top guys have spent pretty much their entire careers with the Ravens.
He didn't seem to think the ownership issues were that big of a deal in Hortiz case but the lack of any type of depth on the roster and not really having anything besides maybe a LT in place for the future is why DeCosta is advising him not to take it.
Hmm, he would have a free hand to do what is needed. If the lack of players is keeping him from taking the job, then his vision is not big enough and it would be good if he did not take the job.
Your friend probably has heard rumblings, but if so, then the Giants would be best served not to have him.
All I keep hearing is the ravens have been good for 20 years and Hortiz has been there so get him. Why has he never been a top candidate before now? What does he know about building an organization that’s a complete mess when the one he has been so good so good for long
The Ravens have been a very well run organization since they left Cleveland in the mid 90's. All the while rarely ever losing front office people to other franchises. More than likely because they pay well and treat their front office staff very well and those guys don't want to leave because they love the organization. DeCosta never left and waited his turn behind Newsome. Hortiz hasn't left. Kokinis left for browns GM and got fired after 1 year and immediately came back.
That and the QB situation couldn't delay a new GM's vision for a year or more. I wouldn't be surprised if Hortiz passes.
If true, then why would he allow to be interveiwed the first time.
Simple answer is that John Mara is still an influential owner, and refusing an interview with JM might have future consequences. Owners do talk (as Jim Fassel found out in Buffalo).
Even if Hortiz isn't really interested in this job, the interview will be a good experience for him, and prepare him for a future interview.
it has anything to do with his vision not being big enough.
If you're comfortable in your current job and you have been there as long as he has, you may not want to just take any job as GM simply because it's a promotion. This is not going to be easy to turn this around. Sure you will probably get 4 years, but you're starting from total scratch basically and have the worst roster situation in the entire league.
There are certainly some pros in that you will get a lot of time but you're not going to get an unlimited amount of time either.
Being new york and getting to pick your HC and having two top 7 picks definitely helps but if we're being honest there isnt a team in the NFL who would trade rosters with the Giants right now. Not one.
that's unlikely that he would advise him to not take a job simply to keep him around. They have worked together for a long, long time and while I'm sure he doesn't want to lose him, I dont think he'd give him advice like that unless he truly believes it's a bad fit. I think these guys want to see the people under them get promoted and succeed.
It is interesting how the Ravens front office is. Guys never leave. DeCosta has never been with anyone else. Hortiz hasn't been anywhere else. Ozzie Newsome was only with the Ravens organization (Browns before thye becams the ravens). Kokinis has been with the Ravens all but one year where he was Browns GM in 2009, besides that his entire career has been with the Ravens.
It seems like Ravens front office people rarely leave. My buddy said the Ravens pay their front office staff more than anyone in the league and all work very well together and you rarely see people leave as a result and flat out said DeCosta is telling Hortiz not to take the Giants job if offered. Doesn't mean Hortiz will listen, but thats what he was told.
I live near Baltimore. I'm sure that everything you say is true, but at some point people who wan't to be promoted have to move on. Who knows when or if another opportunity will happen, or even if it's as good as the Giants. People are acting as if this job is utterly unattractive. This is still a flagship franchise with four Super Bowls and many championships before the Super Bowl era. We also have two top 10 picks.
You said it yourself, "Guys never leave." It sounds like most of their FO is being advised to wait for a perfect or near perfect opportunity. The problem is that those rarely exist in any industry.
But, basing a decision on 2022 is absurd. This is much more of a long view job.
Who said anything about basing it on 2022?
Having no more than a few players on the roster currently who will be part of the solution for this franchise is a huge problem. It's one thing to be bad which they have been it's another to be bad for so long and still having nothing to show for it as far as your roster goes.
This roster is a total disaster. Having 2 top 7 picks helps but it doesn't change that fact.
Dave Gettleman was the worst front office member or coach that they giants have ever employed. That he was allowed to retire instead of being fired after what he did to this roster with 4 straight years of top picks and plenty of cap space is sickening.
And wants to turn this thing around. If Hortiz doesn’t think he can turn this thing around and is not interested because of the current roster, then he’s probably not the guy we want anyway.
the roster is more than one year issue and the family aspect of the Giants football organization could be an issue. We'll never know why but I trust Mook's comments. They are very logical.
Why leave the place you've lived for 20 years, where you family has roots and a high paying job that is very secure where you work with people you know well and seem to like a lot for a somewhat higher paying job with less security to work with people who have a terrible reputation for their work place?
Really look that deeply into the current roster. An NFL roster can turnover close to 80-90% within 2 off-seasons.
They are probably more interested in the fact that the Giants have a ton of cap flexibility after 2022 and a ton of draft capital for them to jumpstart the rebuild. Having 2 top 7 picks is incredibly RARE.
To add to this, the Giants have 3 good to very good young players at 3 of the more difficult positions to fill. Left tackle, edge, and FS (it’s very hard to find guys with center field ability like McKinney)
yep, and I’m not saying it did, but perhaps that line of thinking is what keeps Giants from wanting to hire Hortiz. Does he want to start his own thing from scratch or not? Or does he want to just live in this world where Baltimore organization is the greatest and it’s gonna take the earth and moon to get him to go anywhere else?
wouldn't mean he doesn't think he can turn it around. I'm sure these guys believe in themselves, but if you're very comfortable in your current job and already getting paid very well, you don't just jump at any offer simply because its a promotion. I'm sure Hortiz will have more chances to become a GM down the line that he may see as a far better fit.
You're basically starting from complete scratch with the Giants. Some guys may view that as a positive, others may not. If I were comfortable in my current job and not just looking at other jobs because it's a promotion I wouldn't view it as a positive.
Ravens front office people seem to be a lot more picky on what jobs to take than most around the league.
I am not claiming that Hortiz turned the giants down or even turned down a second interview, just saying that I was told that he is being advised to not take the job if offered. Who knows, maybe he will get a 2nd interview and go against the advice his current boss is giving him.
But looking at the history of Ravens front office guys and that we've heard about other 2nd interviews and not Hortiz, it's certainly possible he has pulled himself out of the running. I dont know that and my source didn't say he has, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case already.
I am on the Hortiz bandwagon. He's my top choice but I'd be happy with Schoen, Peters or Poles as well.
But, basing a decision on 2022 is absurd. This is much more of a long view job.
Who said anything about basing it on 2022?
Having no more than a few players on the roster currently who will be part of the solution for this franchise is a huge problem. It's one thing to be bad which they have been it's another to be bad for so long and still having nothing to show for it as far as your roster goes.
This roster is a total disaster. Having 2 top 7 picks helps but it doesn't change that fact.
Dave Gettleman was the worst front office member or coach that they giants have ever employed. That he was allowed to retire instead of being fired after what he did to this roster with 4 straight years of top picks and plenty of cap space is sickening.
Thanks for sharing your friend’s insights. Hortiz is the guy I’m most interested in because of his Baltimore ties. As you said, they’ve been incredibly stable and draft really well.
And yeah, the damage DG did is incalculable, but I look at it from the opposite view. The Giants are an open canvas, and a new GM isn’t encumbered by contracts he can’t get out of and players he can’t get rid of. He can remake the entire team.
These guys have to be really competitive to work the hours they put in. I would think the opportunity to totally reimagine a franchise - in NY no less - would be really enticing.
That the Ravens also don’t want people leaving their organization and going elsewhere with all of their state secrets? I’m not saying that’s the case but they also seem to go to great lengths to keep guys from leaving. Most of the time a team is looking for a GM it’s for a reason. The team stinks. Waiting for that perfect situation is incredibly never likely to happen and if it’s such a great, perfect job, there would be plenty of competition for that job
and is rare, but is more than offset by the fact that there is basically nothing else on the roster. The roster situation is a total mess and having an extra top 10 pick doesn't change that it's probably the worst roster situation in the entire league. Sure the Giants may have cap space after this coming year, but basically every team with a shitty roster like ours has plenty of cap space this coming year as well as every year for the forseeable future. And most have many more building blocks that the Giants simply dont have. An extra top 10 pick helps but it doesn't totally make up for that.
Even with the extra top 10 pick I wouldn't take the Giants roster situation going forward over any teams in the league. Texans/Lions included.
Dave Gettleman couldn't have fucked the Giants any more than he did if he tried.
& I get the hesitation of taking the Giants job, but could it be that the Ravens higher ups just don't want him to leave & will do/say whatever to dissuade him from leaving Baltimore? If that is the case, that's lame on their part in blocking him from getting a promotion.
I can see each side of it in regards to attractiveness of the job.
I can see it being a huge positive. I can also see it being a huge negative. I think its one of those things where there's no real middle ground. And I can't really say either side is wrong. Some just may not want to leave a position they're very comfortable in to take on a situation where you're starting from scratch. Even teams that stink and need a new GM generally have a handful of players you could build around.
My old man-66 YOA-says Gettleman was the worst hire in his life as a Giants, GM or HC. I don't think he's wrong.
This recent Ray Handley rehabilitation tour is a joke. That idiot inherited a Super Bowl team with Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms and he shit the bed. That guy is the worst. Period.
& I get the hesitation of taking the Giants job, but could it be that the Ravens higher ups just don't want him to leave & will do/say whatever to dissuade him from leaving Baltimore? If that is the case, that's lame on their part in blocking him from getting a promotion.
I dont get the sense that the Ravens operate this way. I think their front office group is so close and so comfortable working with one another that they really trust the advice of the people above them. From what Conor told me and everything i've read about the ravens over the last 20 years it just seems like their people love working for them and are never actively looking to leave because they are taken care of financially and genuinely enjoy working for the organization. There isnt another front office in the league that mirrors the Ravens. The crazy thing is this is going back 25+ years. And multiple people and its always pretty much the same group.
What they have going on is incredibly rare. Feels like every other organization these guys will do anything to get promoted to GM no matter what the situation but the Ravens are just different.
Again I was not told that Hortiz wouldn't take the job, just that his boss is advising him not to. If he's not announced as a 2nd interview, I think it's a safe assumption that he pulled himself out of the running.
for Ray Handley but you can unravel the damage a head coach does quickly.
The 4 years of Gettleman set this franchise back so far. 4 years of top picks and at best 1 player to show for it. Spent tons of money and most of it was a total waste.
Handley was in over his head but a lot easier to fix the damage Handley did vs the damage Gettleman did.
It would have virtually impossible for anyone to do as poorly as Gettleman. You could have picked someone out of the upper level endzone 4 years ago last game and made him GM and the Giants would have been better off
wouldn't mean he doesn't think he can turn it around. I'm sure these guys believe in themselves, but if you're very comfortable in your current job and already getting paid very well, you don't just jump at any offer simply because its a promotion. I'm sure Hortiz will have more chances to become a GM down the line that he may see as a far better fit.
You're basically starting from complete scratch with the Giants. Some guys may view that as a positive, others may not. If I were comfortable in my current job and not just looking at other jobs because it's a promotion I wouldn't view it as a positive.
Ravens front office people seem to be a lot more picky on what jobs to take than most around the league.
I am not claiming that Hortiz turned the giants down or even turned down a second interview, just saying that I was told that he is being advised to not take the job if offered. Who knows, maybe he will get a 2nd interview and go against the advice his current boss is giving him.
But looking at the history of Ravens front office guys and that we've heard about other 2nd interviews and not Hortiz, it's certainly possible he has pulled himself out of the running. I dont know that and my source didn't say he has, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case already.
I am on the Hortiz bandwagon. He's my top choice but I'd be happy with Schoen, Peters or Poles as well.
Is a more important consideration for head coach candidate than GM. HC job is to work with the talent in the roster. GM job is to supply the talent where draft capital is major currency. Plus a GM plan and timeframe is not a one year thing. It’s a multi year plan and in NY he gets to start implementing his plan with two top 10 picks opposed to Chi with no first rounder in year 1.
Can’t believe I’m defending the guy because he was a pretty lousy coach and like somebody mentioned above, coaches can only limited damage. GMs do long term damage. The team that Handley inherited was old and clearly on the downside in a big way. Almost all the stars were long in the teeth which is very possibly why Parcells quit on the team. He may not have wanted his reputation tarnished. And, to add insult to injury, Parcells quit late in the spring which left Handley with no time to hire his own people; he had to,go,Parcells coaches which didn’t make life easy for him.
Is a more important consideration for head coach candidate than GM. HC job is to work with the talent in the roster. GM job is to supply the talent where draft capital is major currency. Plus a GM plan and timeframe is not a one year thing. It’s a multi year plan and in NY he gets to start implementing his plan with two top 10 picks opposed to Chi with no first rounder in year 1.
True, but building the entire franchise with Thomas and McKinney and basically nobody else worth a damn is an unbelievably tall task. As Mook has said repeatedly and correctly, the Giants have the worst roster in the NFL and the 2022 draft by itself can only do so much to compensate for it. It would be so refreshing to hire a GM that thinks this team is utter trash and do what needs to be done ASAP in regards to Barkley, Jones, Kenny G, etc. god damn what a shitty team.
and I’m not doubting, but if it is correct, why wouldn’t Dodds just tell him: ‘Don’t even bother, it’s too challenging a situation. Take one of the other interviews’ BEFORE Hortiz took the first Giants one?
AND, ownership has to know this is a solid 2 year rebuild just to get to 8,9 wins, if much goes well, and likely 3 years in any case with moderate success, and that there’s no quick fix for ‘22. Knowing that, I’m not sure if Hortiz is my guy if he only wants to be a superstar in a year or 2, nor has the self confidence to meet the challenge EVERYONE knows it will be short term when the target long term is improvement ‘22 over ‘21 and ‘23 over ‘22, etc.
I see Hortiz possibly declining a second interview in this scenario as a blessing.
to decline the first interview. You don't want to potentially burn a bridge you may want to cross again down the line, and interviewing can never hurt.
That and the QB situation couldn't delay a new GM's vision for a year or more. I wouldn't be surprised if Hortiz passes.
If true, then why would he allow to be interveiwed the first time.
If he's looking to move up to GM at some point, an interview is free experience as to what he'll be asked, etc. It costs nothing to listen and possibly be surprised. There's no downside to one interview and being in control of your decision.
for Ray Handley but you can unravel the damage a head coach does quickly.
The 4 years of Gettleman set this franchise back so far. 4 years of top picks and at best 1 player to show for it. Spent tons of money and most of it was a total waste.
Handley was in over his head but a lot easier to fix the damage Handley did vs the damage Gettleman did.
It would have virtually impossible for anyone to do as poorly as Gettleman. You could have picked someone out of the upper level endzone 4 years ago last game and made him GM and the Giants would have been better off
There was no way Dg was not getting that job.
He knew the Mara's.
All he needed was some bravado, he told Mara exactly what he wanted to hear and sounded like he believed it himself. Mara swallowed the bait hook line and sinker.
"Of course you can still win with Eli"
The interviews were over the moment they heard it.
I mean im good with poles or schoen but id imagine they bring in more than 2 for 2nd interview
I speculated on this in the Poles thread. What if Horitz told Mara he would want to pursue Harbaugh? Might be something they disagree on fundamentally and arent a match.
Since Hortiz got promoted to Director of College Scouting in 2009 the Ravens have drafted 16 Pro Bowlers and six First-Team All-Pros. If I remember it correctly, the really interesting fact is that 10 of those Pro Bowlers came from the 3rd round and later.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
Most GM candidates would relish the chance to turn over a roster. They don’t need to win right away. They can play the long game.
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it has anything to do with who Hortiz would want as coach.
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
Most GM candidates would relish the chance to turn over a roster. They don’t need to win right away. They can play the long game.
I'm sure some look at it this way, but some might also want to wait for a better fit where you at least have some good young players in place on rookie deals where you can turn over a roster but also have something to work with from the start.
The roster and cap flexibility has to be the worst in the NFL going forward.
I heard that DeCosta is telling Hortiz to wait for a better fit than the Giants.
We can create cap room this year but cutting or not resigning some players. We'll also likely have a lot more cap room in 2023 after even more cuts, and may get some comp picks for Hernandez, Engram, etc.
That's interesting. Where did you hear that?
Think it has to do with how awful the roster is. Yes they have 2 top 7 picks this year but no cap space for a couple years and still need a franchise QB. i could see some GM's being turned off and wanting to wait for a better fit.
Ravens also pay front office people very well
This isn't true. They can create plenty of cap space for 2023 as long as they don't do anything stupid this offseason.
It is interesting how the Ravens front office is. Guys never leave. DeCosta has never been with anyone else. Hortiz hasn't been anywhere else. Ozzie Newsome was only with the Ravens organization (Browns before thye becams the ravens). Kokinis has been with the Ravens all but one year where he was Browns GM in 2009, besides that his entire career has been with the Ravens.
It seems like Ravens front office people rarely leave. My buddy said the Ravens pay their front office staff more than anyone in the league and all work very well together and you rarely see people leave as a result and flat out said DeCosta is telling Hortiz not to take the Giants job if offered. Doesn't mean Hortiz will listen, but thats what he was told.
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that the Ravens GM is telling Hortiz that the Giants job isnt a good fit. We'll see if thats true
That's interesting. Where did you hear that?
One of my best friends all the way back to elementary school is a writer for Sports Illustrated. I called him this morning to pick his brain and he told me that DeCosta is telling hortiz not to take Giants job. As I said in previous post he brought up how close the ravens front office is and that they pay incredibly well and rarely lose front office people. The 3 top guys have spent pretty much their entire careers with the Ravens.
He didn't seem to think the ownership issues were that big of a deal in Hortiz case but the lack of any type of depth on the roster and not really having anything besides maybe a LT in place for the future is why DeCosta is advising him not to take it.
Judging by his interviews,Hortiz sounds like a football guy
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In comment 15559771 Mook80 said:
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that the Ravens GM is telling Hortiz that the Giants job isnt a good fit. We'll see if thats true
That's interesting. Where did you hear that?
One of my best friends all the way back to elementary school is a writer for Sports Illustrated. I called him this morning to pick his brain and he told me that DeCosta is telling hortiz not to take Giants job. As I said in previous post he brought up how close the ravens front office is and that they pay incredibly well and rarely lose front office people. The 3 top guys have spent pretty much their entire careers with the Ravens.
He didn't seem to think the ownership issues were that big of a deal in Hortiz case but the lack of any type of depth on the roster and not really having anything besides maybe a LT in place for the future is why DeCosta is advising him not to take it.
Hmm, he would have a free hand to do what is needed. If the lack of players is keeping him from taking the job, then his vision is not big enough and it would be good if he did not take the job.
Your friend probably has heard rumblings, but if so, then the Giants would be best served not to have him.
The Ravens have been a very well run organization since they left Cleveland in the mid 90's. All the while rarely ever losing front office people to other franchises. More than likely because they pay well and treat their front office staff very well and those guys don't want to leave because they love the organization. DeCosta never left and waited his turn behind Newsome. Hortiz hasn't left. Kokinis left for browns GM and got fired after 1 year and immediately came back.
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That and the QB situation couldn't delay a new GM's vision for a year or more. I wouldn't be surprised if Hortiz passes.
If true, then why would he allow to be interveiwed the first time.
Simple answer is that John Mara is still an influential owner, and refusing an interview with JM might have future consequences. Owners do talk (as Jim Fassel found out in Buffalo).
Even if Hortiz isn't really interested in this job, the interview will be a good experience for him, and prepare him for a future interview.
If you're comfortable in your current job and you have been there as long as he has, you may not want to just take any job as GM simply because it's a promotion. This is not going to be easy to turn this around. Sure you will probably get 4 years, but you're starting from total scratch basically and have the worst roster situation in the entire league.
There are certainly some pros in that you will get a lot of time but you're not going to get an unlimited amount of time either.
Being new york and getting to pick your HC and having two top 7 picks definitely helps but if we're being honest there isnt a team in the NFL who would trade rosters with the Giants right now. Not one.
It is interesting how the Ravens front office is. Guys never leave. DeCosta has never been with anyone else. Hortiz hasn't been anywhere else. Ozzie Newsome was only with the Ravens organization (Browns before thye becams the ravens). Kokinis has been with the Ravens all but one year where he was Browns GM in 2009, besides that his entire career has been with the Ravens.
It seems like Ravens front office people rarely leave. My buddy said the Ravens pay their front office staff more than anyone in the league and all work very well together and you rarely see people leave as a result and flat out said DeCosta is telling Hortiz not to take the Giants job if offered. Doesn't mean Hortiz will listen, but thats what he was told.
I live near Baltimore. I'm sure that everything you say is true, but at some point people who wan't to be promoted have to move on. Who knows when or if another opportunity will happen, or even if it's as good as the Giants. People are acting as if this job is utterly unattractive. This is still a flagship franchise with four Super Bowls and many championships before the Super Bowl era. We also have two top 10 picks.
You said it yourself, "Guys never leave." It sounds like most of their FO is being advised to wait for a perfect or near perfect opportunity. The problem is that those rarely exist in any industry.
Does he want to be a GM or not?
Who said anything about basing it on 2022?
Having no more than a few players on the roster currently who will be part of the solution for this franchise is a huge problem. It's one thing to be bad which they have been it's another to be bad for so long and still having nothing to show for it as far as your roster goes.
This roster is a total disaster. Having 2 top 7 picks helps but it doesn't change that fact.
Dave Gettleman was the worst front office member or coach that they giants have ever employed. That he was allowed to retire instead of being fired after what he did to this roster with 4 straight years of top picks and plenty of cap space is sickening.
Why leave the place you've lived for 20 years, where you family has roots and a high paying job that is very secure where you work with people you know well and seem to like a lot for a somewhat higher paying job with less security to work with people who have a terrible reputation for their work place?
They are probably more interested in the fact that the Giants have a ton of cap flexibility after 2022 and a ton of draft capital for them to jumpstart the rebuild. Having 2 top 7 picks is incredibly RARE.
To add to this, the Giants have 3 good to very good young players at 3 of the more difficult positions to fill. Left tackle, edge, and FS (it’s very hard to find guys with center field ability like McKinney)
Things aren’t as bad as it seems.
You're basically starting from complete scratch with the Giants. Some guys may view that as a positive, others may not. If I were comfortable in my current job and not just looking at other jobs because it's a promotion I wouldn't view it as a positive.
Ravens front office people seem to be a lot more picky on what jobs to take than most around the league.
I am not claiming that Hortiz turned the giants down or even turned down a second interview, just saying that I was told that he is being advised to not take the job if offered. Who knows, maybe he will get a 2nd interview and go against the advice his current boss is giving him.
But looking at the history of Ravens front office guys and that we've heard about other 2nd interviews and not Hortiz, it's certainly possible he has pulled himself out of the running. I dont know that and my source didn't say he has, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case already.
I am on the Hortiz bandwagon. He's my top choice but I'd be happy with Schoen, Peters or Poles as well.
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But, basing a decision on 2022 is absurd. This is much more of a long view job.
Who said anything about basing it on 2022?
Having no more than a few players on the roster currently who will be part of the solution for this franchise is a huge problem. It's one thing to be bad which they have been it's another to be bad for so long and still having nothing to show for it as far as your roster goes.
This roster is a total disaster. Having 2 top 7 picks helps but it doesn't change that fact.
Dave Gettleman was the worst front office member or coach that they giants have ever employed. That he was allowed to retire instead of being fired after what he did to this roster with 4 straight years of top picks and plenty of cap space is sickening.
Thanks for sharing your friend’s insights. Hortiz is the guy I’m most interested in because of his Baltimore ties. As you said, they’ve been incredibly stable and draft really well.
And yeah, the damage DG did is incalculable, but I look at it from the opposite view. The Giants are an open canvas, and a new GM isn’t encumbered by contracts he can’t get out of and players he can’t get rid of. He can remake the entire team.
These guys have to be really competitive to work the hours they put in. I would think the opportunity to totally reimagine a franchise - in NY no less - would be really enticing.
Even with the extra top 10 pick I wouldn't take the Giants roster situation going forward over any teams in the league. Texans/Lions included.
Dave Gettleman couldn't have fucked the Giants any more than he did if he tried.
I can see it being a huge positive. I can also see it being a huge negative. I think its one of those things where there's no real middle ground. And I can't really say either side is wrong. Some just may not want to leave a position they're very comfortable in to take on a situation where you're starting from scratch. Even teams that stink and need a new GM generally have a handful of players you could build around.
I agree. Hopefully these guy aren’t that short sighted. I can’t imagine they are
This recent Ray Handley rehabilitation tour is a joke. That idiot inherited a Super Bowl team with Lawrence Taylor and Phil Simms and he shit the bed. That guy is the worst. Period.
I dont get the sense that the Ravens operate this way. I think their front office group is so close and so comfortable working with one another that they really trust the advice of the people above them. From what Conor told me and everything i've read about the ravens over the last 20 years it just seems like their people love working for them and are never actively looking to leave because they are taken care of financially and genuinely enjoy working for the organization. There isnt another front office in the league that mirrors the Ravens. The crazy thing is this is going back 25+ years. And multiple people and its always pretty much the same group.
What they have going on is incredibly rare. Feels like every other organization these guys will do anything to get promoted to GM no matter what the situation but the Ravens are just different.
Again I was not told that Hortiz wouldn't take the job, just that his boss is advising him not to. If he's not announced as a 2nd interview, I think it's a safe assumption that he pulled himself out of the running.
The 4 years of Gettleman set this franchise back so far. 4 years of top picks and at best 1 player to show for it. Spent tons of money and most of it was a total waste.
Handley was in over his head but a lot easier to fix the damage Handley did vs the damage Gettleman did.
It would have virtually impossible for anyone to do as poorly as Gettleman. You could have picked someone out of the upper level endzone 4 years ago last game and made him GM and the Giants would have been better off
You're basically starting from complete scratch with the Giants. Some guys may view that as a positive, others may not. If I were comfortable in my current job and not just looking at other jobs because it's a promotion I wouldn't view it as a positive.
Ravens front office people seem to be a lot more picky on what jobs to take than most around the league.
I am not claiming that Hortiz turned the giants down or even turned down a second interview, just saying that I was told that he is being advised to not take the job if offered. Who knows, maybe he will get a 2nd interview and go against the advice his current boss is giving him.
But looking at the history of Ravens front office guys and that we've heard about other 2nd interviews and not Hortiz, it's certainly possible he has pulled himself out of the running. I dont know that and my source didn't say he has, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case already.
I am on the Hortiz bandwagon. He's my top choice but I'd be happy with Schoen, Peters or Poles as well.
Great insight. Thanks for sharing.
AND, ownership has to know this is a solid 2 year rebuild just to get to 8,9 wins, if much goes well, and likely 3 years in any case with moderate success, and that there’s no quick fix for ‘22. Knowing that, I’m not sure if Hortiz is my guy if he only wants to be a superstar in a year or 2, nor has the self confidence to meet the challenge EVERYONE knows it will be short term when the target long term is improvement ‘22 over ‘21 and ‘23 over ‘22, etc.
I see Hortiz possibly declining a second interview in this scenario as a blessing.
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That and the QB situation couldn't delay a new GM's vision for a year or more. I wouldn't be surprised if Hortiz passes.
If true, then why would he allow to be interveiwed the first time.
If he's looking to move up to GM at some point, an interview is free experience as to what he'll be asked, etc. It costs nothing to listen and possibly be surprised. There's no downside to one interview and being in control of your decision.
The 4 years of Gettleman set this franchise back so far. 4 years of top picks and at best 1 player to show for it. Spent tons of money and most of it was a total waste.
Handley was in over his head but a lot easier to fix the damage Handley did vs the damage Gettleman did.
It would have virtually impossible for anyone to do as poorly as Gettleman. You could have picked someone out of the upper level endzone 4 years ago last game and made him GM and the Giants would have been better off
He knew the Mara's.
All he needed was some bravado, he told Mara exactly what he wanted to hear and sounded like he believed it himself. Mara swallowed the bait hook line and sinker.
"Of course you can still win with Eli"
The interviews were over the moment they heard it.
"Did you see that game in Philly?"
Mara probably moaned a little bit.