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NFT: Knicks vs. 'Wolves - 7:30 PM - Game Thread

adamg : 1/18/2022 6:03 pm
LFGK!!!
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I wish this team would  
Chris L. : 1/18/2022 10:18 pm : link
just trade Randle. You are never gonna win with this guy. Always comes up super small in big spots.
RE: Choke artist central tonight  
Vanzetti : 1/18/2022 10:20 pm : link
In comment 15560289 adamg said:
Quote:
Burks needs to give that to Kemba


Great game by Burks tonight. Does anyone other than Thibs think he can guard PGs?
Its laughable how  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 10:20 pm : link
when a player gets hot they dont touch the ball for 2 or 3 possessions..

Zero reason the ball should not have been in Kembas hands every possession..

Refs were dreadful..

Rj with 2 terrible games turning the ball over, ball should of never been in his hands though..

RE: I wish this team would  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 10:21 pm : link
In comment 15560295 Chris L. said:
Quote:
just trade Randle. You are never gonna win with this guy. Always comes up super small in big spots.


He missed the free throw yes, but if you think he was the reason they lost then you werent watching..

He also made a great pass on the play that would of been a wide open 3
55 foul calls tonight  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 10:28 pm : link
dear lord
RE: RE: I wish this team would  
BigBlue2007 : 1/18/2022 10:28 pm : link
In comment 15560300 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15560295 Chris L. said:


Quote:


just trade Randle. You are never gonna win with this guy. Always comes up super small in big spots.



He missed the free throw yes, but if you think he was the reason they lost then you werent watching..

He also made a great pass on the play that would of been a wide open 3


The problem with Randle is he always misses big free throws.
RE: 55 foul calls tonight  
BigBlue2007 : 1/18/2022 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15560306 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
dear lord


NBA officials specialize in deciding games and grinding them to a halt.
RJ with back  
Enzo : 1/18/2022 10:32 pm : link
to back awful games. More turnovers than made shots tonight. That's hard to do! Kill Randle all you want for the missed free throw, but this was one of his better games. Quick and Obi have had their ups and downs but this team is going nowhere. May as well give them more minutes.
RE: RJ with back  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 10:36 pm : link
In comment 15560314 Enzo said:
Quote:
to back awful games. More turnovers than made shots tonight. That's hard to do! Kill Randle all you want for the missed free throw, but this was one of his better games. Quick and Obi have had their ups and downs but this team is going nowhere. May as well give them more minutes.


Rose needs to save Thibs from himself and trade some of the vets he relies on..

I like Burks and he is clutch at times but to many of games like tonight..

Gibson was awful tonight and then bkth centers foul out and you still dont give Obi a chance? i mean come on..

Either trade some guys for draft picks or try and make a bigger trade..as crazy as it is there is to much depth on this team
I really don't think Thibs is getting the most out of this roster.  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/18/2022 10:49 pm : link
And if this is a .500 team going nowhere, what's the point of relying on players like Burks?

Burks, Randle, RJ, Rose and to an extent Gibson and Quickley can do whatever they want on the court, make mistake after mistake, show no effort, and yet still get their minutes, while the other players have to play on egg shells. Good coaches make an example out of the best player to set the tone, apparently Thibs doesn't believe in that.
RE: I really don't think Thibs is getting the most out of this roster.  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 10:51 pm : link
In comment 15560328 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
And if this is a .500 team going nowhere, what's the point of relying on players like Burks?

Burks, Randle, RJ, Rose and to an extent Gibson and Quickley can do whatever they want on the court, make mistake after mistake, show no effort, and yet still get their minutes, while the other players have to play on egg shells. Good coaches make an example out of the best player to set the tone, apparently Thibs doesn't believe in that.


so who do you think should of been benched tonight?
So Fucking aggravated  
djm : 1/18/2022 10:55 pm : link
...
Bench has really been struggiling  
nygiants16 : 1/18/2022 11:25 pm : link
Really miss Rose and Reddish could of helped tonight..

Will be interesting how Thibs gets Reddish minutes
RE: Bench has really been struggiling  
Mike in NJ : 1/18/2022 11:47 pm : link
In comment 15560347 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Really miss Rose and Reddish could of helped tonight..

Will be interesting how Thibs gets Reddish minutes


I don’t know but I wish it could be done by benching Burks, he hasn’t been good most of the time this year. He’s no more of a point guard than Quickley, so let IQ play the backup point and then let Reddish take the minutes Burks was getting.

A bench unit of Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, Noel would be intriguing.
Well last night sucked but there were aome positives  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 7:50 am : link
Kemba looked like he didnt miss a beat, getting into the lane, creating for others, made some big 3s...I would argue the ball should of been in his hands a lot more down the stretch, dont understsnd why they didnt run pick and roll right at Towns every time down..

Fournier was fantastic and everyone jokes only against Boston but thats not true, last 15 games he is averaging 17 a night 55% shooting and the highest net rating on the team..Mkssed a couple of wide open 3s in the 4th but he was awesome last night on both ends..

Randle was good last night, yeah we see the missed free throw but he was good last night and even on that play he made a great pass to a wide open burks...Need it every night..

I am not going to absolutely kill Rj but he was horrendous last night, 7 turnovers only 2 assists and forced some terrible shots. There needs to be a moment where he says alright not my night and get out of the way of Kemba, Randle and Fournier. Go play defense and rebound. I would of put Grimes in the 4th but i know that Thibs couldnt do it with the way Rj has played the past 10 games..

The bench needs to wake up, the starters did their job, they were all a + except for Rj, the bench were all a minus. Desperetly miss Rose he is their calming factor, quickoey just dribbles into oblivion..

Thjbs has decisions to make because you got to find at minimum 25 minutes a night for Reddish, Burks and Quickley are both struggiling, we know he loves Grimes, Toppin is on the fringe..Does a trade alleviate the glut or does Thibs bench some guys?
How about this 3 team  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 8:01 am : link
Philly gets Randle, Quickley, Hield and Barnes

Knicks get Fox and bagley

Kings get Harris and Simmons

Obviously draft picks involved going to philly
RE: How about this 3 team  
GNewGiants : 1/19/2022 8:39 am : link
In comment 15560430 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Philly gets Randle, Quickley, Hield and Barnes

Knicks get Fox and bagley

Kings get Harris and Simmons

Obviously draft picks involved going to philly


Kings are giving up a lot for a guy who won’t want to be there. Simmons isn’t vaccinated either so California may not be an option unless I’m missing something?
Knicks really miss Rose  
Stu11 : 1/19/2022 9:09 am : link
In games like Monday and last night where we start so slow he comes in off the bench and usually gives us a boost right away with some driving buckets. Hope he's back soon.
Missed Free Throws  
JohninSC : 1/19/2022 9:36 am : link
and Turnovers. That's why we lost the game.
Kings putting Fox  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 9:48 am : link
in trade talks for Sabonis, i dont get why the Pacers would want Fox though
Barrett continues to be mostly all or nothing  
Greg from LI : 1/19/2022 9:49 am : link
On most nights, he's either terrific or he's awful. He's still pretty young, but this has not changed at all since day 1.
RE: Barrett continues to be mostly all or nothing  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 9:58 am : link
In comment 15560589 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On most nights, he's either terrific or he's awful. He's still pretty young, but this has not changed at all since day 1.


Its frustrating because last night Knicks didnt need his offense, just move the ball, play d and rebound, thats it, if you get an open shot take it..

Burks has not played well  
Enzo : 1/19/2022 10:12 am : link
and has been ice cold for a while and RJ had that recent stretch of good games, but all the stats show Burks as the better player this year.
PER: Burks - 14.6, RJ - 12.9
TS%: Burks - .551, RJ - .515
WS/48: Burks - .133 , RJ - .041
BPM: Burks - 0.9, RJ - (-2.0)

RJ has simply not been good for most of this season. I don't know what his value is around the league, but I'm not against trading him in the right deal. Especially considering he's extension eligible sooner rather than later.
RE: How about this 3 team  
Mike in NJ : 1/19/2022 10:14 am : link
In comment 15560430 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Philly gets Randle, Quickley, Hield and Barnes

Knicks get Fox and bagley

Kings get Harris and Simmons

Obviously draft picks involved going to philly


I don't have any interest in Fox, I would much rather they pursue Brunson. They will have to give up fewer assets, and he will cost a little more than half as much as the 35ish mil that Fox is making. I also think Brunson is the better PG.
RE: How about this 3 team  
Enzo : 1/19/2022 10:26 am : link
In comment 15560430 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Philly gets Randle, Quickley, Hield and Barnes

Knicks get Fox and bagley

Kings get Harris and Simmons

Obviously draft picks involved going to philly

even the good version of Randle might not be the best fit with Embiid.

Randomly, I do like the idea of taking a chance on Bagley. There will probably be an opportunity to get him at some point either via trade or free agency.
RE: RE: How about this 3 team  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 11:05 am : link
In comment 15560639 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15560430 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


Philly gets Randle, Quickley, Hield and Barnes

Knicks get Fox and bagley

Kings get Harris and Simmons

Obviously draft picks involved going to philly



I don't have any interest in Fox, I would much rather they pursue Brunson. They will have to give up fewer assets, and he will cost a little more than half as much as the 35ish mil that Fox is making. I also think Brunson is the better PG.


Would love Brunson but just feel they will end up with Fox
RE: Barrett continues to be mostly all or nothing  
djm : 1/19/2022 11:12 am : link
In comment 15560589 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
On most nights, he's either terrific or he's awful. He's still pretty young, but this has not changed at all since day 1.


Yea can I take back my turning into a star comment or at least amend it to say he's slowly (very slowly) turning into a star? and by slowly I mean it's not linear and can be quite annoying to watch.

I am trying to just keep my expectations in check and cautiously assume this team finds its way to 46 wins or so and the young players take steps forward, even if not linear steps forward.

I have been saying all along it's time for that 2-1 type deal where we give up some quantity but get back a star.

They played hard last night but played foolishly as well. Keep playing hard and the wins should follow. Tough stretch coming up tho.
Crazy Knicks were 24-27 at one point last year  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 12:15 pm : link
and we all look at last year a lot more positively than this year, crazy how expectations distors our view on a team
RE: Crazy Knicks were 24-27 at one point last year  
CooperDash : 1/19/2022 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15560910 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and we all look at last year a lot more positively than this year, crazy how expectations distors our view on a team


Yeah, but the situations are different. Last year was a pleasant surprise.

Everyone pegged this as a bad team, so the success they had (combined with Randle's great season) had everyone thinking very positively about the team.

This season, fans are now expecting the team to take the next step and continue to improve - but that really hasn't been the case. So it's a bit of a let down, even if their record is slightly better or the same (for now).
I think RJ's biggest problem right now is that when he has a bad  
Stu11 : 1/19/2022 1:36 pm : link
shooting night his whole game goes downhill. The turnovers and sloppy play pile up and he even loses concentration on the defensive end. The stars in the league have off shooting nights, but they don't let it affect the rest of their game and they find other ways to contribute and help they're team win. RJ's overall game is still too attached to his shooting.
RJ is 21  
adamg : 1/19/2022 2:02 pm : link
He needs to mature as a player still. No reason to doubt it will come with time at this point. I'd like to see him continue to shoot more efficiently going forward.

I actually wasn't too offput by last night's loss. We played like shit for the most part and were never out of it and likely would have won if Burks hits Kemba for that last second three. Bring in Brunson and we'll be cooking. Jmo.
If Burks is playing like shit  
Mike from SI : 1/19/2022 2:05 pm : link
can we give McBride some run? We know he'll be a dog on defense.
Everyone keeps saying Burks should have passed to Kemba there  
Stu11 : 1/19/2022 2:13 pm : link
Are you guys joking? Burks gets the ball off a scramble with a few seconds left and he was wide open. He's gonna look to pass there? There's no way anyone is gonna have the presence of mind there to pass not knowing how much they me is left.
RE: Everyone keeps saying Burks should have passed to Kemba there  
adamg : 1/19/2022 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15561131 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Are you guys joking? Burks gets the ball off a scramble with a few seconds left and he was wide open. He's gonna look to pass there? There's no way anyone is gonna have the presence of mind there to pass not knowing how much they me is left.


He wasn't wide open. Kemba was totally uncontested.
Stu  
five5 : 1/19/2022 2:21 pm : link
Agree with you 100%...Burks hasn't been good lately but let's not get on him for that last second shot. Noone has the wherewithal to make that pass in that situation.
RE: Burks has not played well  
Mike in NJ : 1/19/2022 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15560630 Enzo said:
Quote:
and has been ice cold for a while and RJ had that recent stretch of good games, but all the stats show Burks as the better player this year.
PER: Burks - 14.6, RJ - 12.9
TS%: Burks - .551, RJ - .515
WS/48: Burks - .133 , RJ - .041
BPM: Burks - 0.9, RJ - (-2.0)

RJ has simply not been good for most of this season. I don't know what his value is around the league, but I'm not against trading him in the right deal. Especially considering he's extension eligible sooner rather than later.


The reason that you don't trade RJ is because he is 21 years old, and regularly shows flashes of star potential. Yes he is inconsistent, but the hope is as he matures as a player the off nights become less frequent.

For comparisons sake here are RJ's numbers, and because it's a player he has often been compared to, DeMar DeRozan's at the same stage in their career (third season):

PER: DeRozan - 12.8, RJ - 12.9
TS%: DeRozan - .503, RJ - .515
WS/48: DeRozan - .054 , RJ - .041
BPM: DeRozan - (-0.4), RJ - (-2.0)

Very close, and RJ is a year younger at this stage than DeRozan was. DeRozan continued to improve in year 4, and by year 5 was an All-Star. Not far fetched at all to think RJ can follow a similar path.



RE: Stu  
Stu11 : 1/19/2022 2:49 pm : link
In comment 15561147 five5 said:
Quote:
Agree with you 100%...Burks hasn't been good lately but let's not get on him for that last second shot. Noone has the wherewithal to make that pass in that situation.

Just looked at it again. Ok Burks wasn't wide open but it was a good look with Beverly to his side. Kemba appears to be open but Vanderbilt was coming out towards him and by the time he caught and shot it I'm sure Vanderbilt would have been there.
I think Burks has a place on a good team  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 3:12 pm : link
but i think Thibs relies on him to much to playmake, when he is off the ball and can just be 3 and d he is fine..He shouldnt be in to playmake though..

You saw a glimpse of what the Knicks can look like with a legit point on the court, when Kemba is playing well this team is very good, when he isnt they are average at best..

You are also seeing the fall off of the bench with no Rose
Last 2 minite report came out  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 4:11 pm : link
Refs missed 3 calls, a Towns foul on the Fournier turnover..

Towns should of been called for an offensive foul before Randle fouled him..

and Russell pushed Rj which should of been a foul and 2 free throws..

and of course the Refs decided the game
RE: Last 2 minite report came out  
adamg : 1/19/2022 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15561296 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Refs missed 3 calls, a Towns foul on the Fournier turnover..

Towns should of been called for an offensive foul before Randle fouled him..

and Russell pushed Rj which should of been a foul and 2 free throws..

and of course the Refs decided the game


Wow. Three bad calls against the Knicks in a 2 point game? Brutal. Refs fucked up big time.
Even last night  
adamg : 1/19/2022 4:15 pm : link
I think we manage to hit 3 out of 6 FTs...
Enough with  
five5 : 1/19/2022 4:18 pm : link
the officials. Good teams find ways to overcome bad officiating. The Knicks are who they are. A borderline playoff team that will need to catch some breaks to get into the play in games.
RE: Enough with  
adamg : 1/19/2022 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15561304 five5 said:
Quote:
the officials. Good teams find ways to overcome bad officiating. The Knicks are who they are. A borderline playoff team that will need to catch some breaks to get into the play in games.


We were the better team yesterday. We had a bad game. It happens. And we're short our most important player.
RE: Enough with  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 4:24 pm : link
In comment 15561304 five5 said:
Quote:
the officials. Good teams find ways to overcome bad officiating. The Knicks are who they are. A borderline playoff team that will need to catch some breaks to get into the play in games.


Kind of hard to overcome 3 calls that changed the game, Knicks would of had 6 free throws off those fouls in a game they were up 1 before the Kat and 1..

Yeah they changed the game..
RE: Last 2 minite report came out  
Enzo : 1/19/2022 4:58 pm : link
In comment 15561296 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Refs missed 3 calls, a Towns foul on the Fournier turnover..

Towns should of been called for an offensive foul before Randle fouled him..

and Russell pushed Rj which should of been a foul and 2 free throws..

and of course the Refs decided the game

the first one looked bad in real time to me. The other two weren't what I'd call egregious. The worst, IMO, was the 6th foul on Mitch.
RE: RE: Burks has not played well  
Enzo : 1/19/2022 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15561169 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15560630 Enzo said:


Quote:


and has been ice cold for a while and RJ had that recent stretch of good games, but all the stats show Burks as the better player this year.
PER: Burks - 14.6, RJ - 12.9
TS%: Burks - .551, RJ - .515
WS/48: Burks - .133 , RJ - .041
BPM: Burks - 0.9, RJ - (-2.0)

RJ has simply not been good for most of this season. I don't know what his value is around the league, but I'm not against trading him in the right deal. Especially considering he's extension eligible sooner rather than later.



The reason that you don't trade RJ is because he is 21 years old, and regularly shows flashes of star potential. Yes he is inconsistent, but the hope is as he matures as a player the off nights become less frequent.

For comparisons sake here are RJ's numbers, and because it's a player he has often been compared to, DeMar DeRozan's at the same stage in their career (third season):

PER: DeRozan - 12.8, RJ - 12.9
TS%: DeRozan - .503, RJ - .515
WS/48: DeRozan - .054 , RJ - .041
BPM: DeRozan - (-0.4), RJ - (-2.0)

Very close, and RJ is a year younger at this stage than DeRozan was. DeRozan continued to improve in year 4, and by year 5 was an All-Star. Not far fetched at all to think RJ can follow a similar path.

Sure it's possible he ascends into an all-star caliber wing, but DeRozan is not the guy I'd be looking to for a comparison. First of all, DeRozan is pretty much an outlier in the modern NBA in terms of how he plays. Also, even in his first few season, DeRozan was pretty good in the mid-range and at the free throw line. RJ is pretty bad at both.

Hopefully RJ can develop into a more consistent outsider shooter. If so, he likley has a good career. But in watching him I see below average athleticism, instincts, and ability to improvise on the floor. I don't think he becomes a star. Hope I'm wrong.
According to shams  
nygiants16 : 1/19/2022 5:04 pm : link
Kings informed Fox they are not shopping him
.  
adamg : 1/19/2022 6:09 pm : link
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
The Sacramento Kings organization has a current mindset: They are not moving star guard De’Aaron Fox and want to center team around Fox and second-year guard Tyrese Haliburton, sources say.
Jalen Brunson come on down!  
adamg : 1/19/2022 6:10 pm : link
.
RE: .  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2022 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15561446 adamg said:
Quote:
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
The Sacramento Kings organization has a current mindset: They are not moving star guard De’Aaron Fox and want to center team around Fox and second-year guard Tyrese Haliburton, sources say.


I like Haliburton, from what I've seen of him. Fox is a keeper obviously.
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