Seeing way too many post that people want DJ gone. That next year doesn't make a difference for him and he should be gone. That we'll save money on a salary hit. Looking at FA, guys like Trubisky, Bridgwater, Winston, Marriota, Brissett are available. Do we have the money to sign any of them?
Do you feel comfortable in drafting any of the QB'S? Pickett, Corrall, Willis, Howell ect.. Personally I prefer Corrall out of the top group coming out this year.
Do you think they should just ride out DJ for 1 more year then draft another QB in 2023?
If the new GM is thinking about a bridge QB, isn't Jones the ideal option? He still has upside, has the physical tools and at least has upside.
You put DJ with a competent offensive staff (like he had under Shumur) and he can get the job done. This is the same Qb who threw 24 td's and had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio as a rookie, and thats despite the team playing games with Jon Hillman at RB, Latimer & Fowler at WR, and having an OL that was almost as bad as this years version.
My answer for QB is running it back with Jones, and signing a vet backup like Trubisky/Mariota who can at the very least step in and be competent if DJ is injured again.
If Jones sucks/gets injured, then the Giants will likely be in great position in the 2023 draft to draft his replacement.
If the new GM is thinking about a bridge QB, isn't Jones the ideal option? He still has upside, has the physical tools and at least has upside.
You put DJ with a competent offensive staff (like he had under Shumur) and he can get the job done. This is the same Qb who threw 24 td's and had a 2:1 TD/INT ratio as a rookie, and thats despite the team playing games with Jon Hillman at RB, Latimer & Fowler at WR, and having an OL that was almost as bad as this years version.
My answer for QB is running it back with Jones, and signing a vet backup like Trubisky/Mariota who can at the very least step in and be competent if DJ is injured again.
If Jones sucks/gets injured, then the Giants will likely be in great position in the 2023 draft to draft his replacement.
Great post and I agree. Jones is under contract. I like Marriotta over Trubisky. I’m even ok with drafting Sam Howell in round 2 and bring in some young talent to the QB room.
The first round needs to net OL and ER because the need an value meet.
I got off the Jones train a while ago. He does some good things, but to me he just doesn't have it when it's needed most. However, his contract is relatively cheap and if they can reconstruct the OL to be at least functional he can hand off to Barkley and Booker all game.
Watson I can't see, too much downside to bringing him in unless his pricetag plummets (which I don't see). Wilson I can see - he's apparently "weighing his options" which translates to "hey opposing GM's, start calling". Wilson is the better player without the baggage and technically should be cheaper.
Evaluate this draft. If you do not see that type of QB then you push it to 2023 where I think you have more higher caliber QB's coming out.
Not interested in a higher tier vet. 8-9 wins with very limited potential to go further only hurts drafting position for 2023. Rather gut the roster, take the pain and build correctly through the draft. Giant fans will be patient if they see some key signs of winning football emerging with the first priority being to start winning the lines again. Just about all the current Vets on the team will not be part of the next Giants good team imv.
What a disaster.
They need to get moving on this GM/HC situation b/c they have a lot of work to do!
If that drafted QB sucks fine. This team isn’t going anywhere in 22. It’s a rebuilding season.
Option 2: Draft one of Ridder, Willis, Strong, Howell in round 2 or 3
Option 3: Draft one of Zappe, McKee, or another late prospect
Combine the pick with signing one or two FAs. If the rookie is up to it, start him. If not, go with one of the FAs.
Lots of viable optios available.
+1. I’d say even if the rookie is shaky, start him.
Personally I would sign a Tribusky / Mariotta type and focus the draft on fixing the OL
Serious question: what is the objective?
Serious question: what is the objective?
To be able to allocate more resources to get the OL situation fixed
And to not force the QB pick if you are not in full bloom love with any of the prospects
Serious question: what is the objective?
The issue with Jones is availability as he appears to be injury prone.
Is he the long term answer moving forward...who knows. Will a new coach and GM want him? Probably not. But his value is next to nothing due to the injury. Your not saving anything by cutting him, so you might as well keep him around for competition. You can always trade him during camp if he looks decent and you have someone else in camp that can play.
Serious question: what is the objective?
I generally agree with your perspective and I don't place any value on wins in a lost season. But I think you need some level of competence at the QB position on the roster. I don't think it's a good idea to play 17 games that are like our end of season run (maybe that's coaching, OL, whatever - but you need to be able to pass the ball).
In football I think you need some semblance of a "real team" to evaluate guys, help guys improve, and keep guys engaged. If you go into camp hopeless, it's a long, long season. And it's not like basketball where there are more games than practices and guys can work on getting their own stats. Practices suuuck when you know you have a hopeless team with no chance to win.
Long-term, and in a vacuum, full-blown experimentation makes sense. If we did it, I wouldn't complain. But I don't know how realistic it is.
-Jones as of now is the best QB on the team
-We don't know what NY will think of the draft class
-assuming they don't love anyone at 5 or 7 they can't force a QB pick in round 1
-with the above in mind, maybe they pick a QB in round 2
-with the above in mind, even if they picked a QB in round 1 they need a QB that can play and spell the rookie and Jones is a viable option
This isn't a referendum. Jones is here for now because he's the best QB on the team. If the Giants go out and sign or trade for star FA QB things change in a hurry, but if they draft a kid, they might still be inclined to keep Jones for 2022 because again, he's the best QB on the roster and can push/spell the rookie.
We don't have to do anything with Jones until we do.
The guy who needs to be exorcised from the roster no matter what is Barkley. He is a replacement or below-replacement level player who is the living breathing symbol of the Gettleman horror show and his continued presence on the roster is an insult to the fans.
If he keeps his wits about him, a new GM can't just "like" a QB prospect at #5 (or #7), he has to see Franchise QB to make that type of draft commitment. Otherwise, pursue other options for a stop-gap QB or keep Jones in the saddle another season. Use the picks to build a new core until the QB sightlines become clearer.
I guess it's fair to suggest to picking a QB in maybe a Rd2. You could give him a go sometime in 2022 and see how does, and maybe that delays your decision to pursue a Franchise QB in 2023.
At some point though, you have to think about winning. And that is going to be very difficult without a strong QB as there are no other All-Pro types to rely upon with this roster.
Option 2: Draft one of Ridder, Willis, Strong, Howell in round 2 or 3
Option 3: Draft one of Zappe, McKee, or another late prospect
Combine the pick with signing one or two FAs. If the rookie is up to it, start him. If not, go with one of the FAs.
Lots of viable optios available.
I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of drafting Willis in 2/3 and signing Mariota to caddy for him. Willis won't be a guy who you can just plug into the lineup from day one, but his pure talent is undeniable, and from what I've read he's considered to be a real gamer and a true leader. Big risk, but big potential rewards.
Quote:
Option 1: Draft one of Corral or Pickett
Option 2: Draft one of Ridder, Willis, Strong, Howell in round 2 or 3
Option 3: Draft one of Zappe, McKee, or another late prospect
Combine the pick with signing one or two FAs. If the rookie is up to it, start him. If not, go with one of the FAs.
Lots of viable optios available.
I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of drafting Willis in 2/3 and signing Mariota to caddy for him. Willis won't be a guy who you can just plug into the lineup from day one, but his pure talent is undeniable, and from what I've read he's considered to be a real gamer and a true leader. Big risk, but big potential rewards.
+1 I like this plan.
If you put Jones on PHI BBI would talk about him the same way as Hurts
No one - I mean no one - in the modern NFL era comes back with the same franchise from the losing has been a part of - no one.
Option 2: Draft one of Ridder, Willis, Strong, Howell in round 2 or 3
Option 3: Draft one of Zappe, McKee, or another late prospect
Combine the pick with signing one or two FAs. If the rookie is up to it, start him. If not, go with one of the FAs.
Lots of viable optios available.
I think there is every chance in the world that the guys you have listed in RD 2/3 turn out better than Corral and Pickett. There is no consensus top pick (or two) this year IMO. I have no issue taking the "best available QB" left in Rd 2, with out high pick its almost a 1st rounder anyway, but not in Rd 1. I also want to get something for Jones. He is worth something from someone, and we did use a #1 on him.
If we can't what is wrong with keeping him another year, and bringing the new kid along in parallel? He will perform jsut as well as Mariotta, and if Jones performs better then we can sell him for more in a trade? Or, and I know this is impossible to some here, what if he turns it around? Then we have a lot of options with 2 QBs. Giving Jones away for nothing just doesn't strike me as smart, or the right thing to do.
Ideal type of vet to bring in and push DJ in camp/ start if needed. Experience with Daboll as well.
Don't see him as a downgrade to Mariota, who will cost more.
2 yrs/8M sign me up
Jones isn't part of the future - the biggest priority is to find a QB who is.
If Jones and Ridder are on the roster, every snap Jones gets is wasted on one that could have been used to get Ridder a rep.
Jones won't turn it around because the ability just isn't there. Trade him - the Giants made the mistake of thinking he has the ability; maybe someone else will too.
QB2 - someone drafted in rounds 1-3
QB3 - Daniel Jones (pray he never sees the field)
If we're lucky enough to trade DJ for any kind of capital, then QB3 can become any viable pro-level QB not named Mike Glennon.
Jones isn't part of the future - the biggest priority is to find a QB who is.
If Jones and Ridder are on the roster, every snap Jones gets is wasted on one that could have been used to get Ridder a rep.
Jones won't turn it around because the ability just isn't there. Trade him - the Giants made the mistake of thinking he has the ability; maybe someone else will too.
Come on man. That is revisionist theory to a tee. Jones did show flashes his rookie year which gave you hope. There is no GM in the league that would have traded Jones after his rookie year after that GM just drafted him.
- The new QB (FA or draft) wins and starts. Jones is backup.
- Jones wins and plays bad. We haven't lost anything because the new QB wasn't ready, and we couldn't get anything for Jones now anyway (likely a drafted QB scenario)
- Jones wins and plays ok. Good scenario because we can trade him, and have been bringing the new QB along (likely a draftee)
- Super lucky scenario - Jones steps it up and plays like a top draft choice. Once again this is good for us.
I just don't see a downside here.
Quote:
Jones is a sunk cost. We shouldn't have used a first rounder for him, and after we did we should have identified the issues with his game and traded him after his rookie season. These are mistakes the Giants did to themselves, and can't be taken back - in that type of situation the best thing to do is move on.
Jones isn't part of the future - the biggest priority is to find a QB who is.
If Jones and Ridder are on the roster, every snap Jones gets is wasted on one that could have been used to get Ridder a rep.
Jones won't turn it around because the ability just isn't there. Trade him - the Giants made the mistake of thinking he has the ability; maybe someone else will too.
Come on man. That is revisionist theory to a tee. Jones did show flashes his rookie year which gave you hope. There is no GM in the league that would have traded Jones after his rookie year after that GM just drafted him.
Not revisionist. I said it before the 2019 season was over.
Not revisionist. I said it before the 2019 season was over.
Just because you were right, does not mean it isn't revisionist theory. As I said, a GM who drafted Jones in the first round (right, wrong or indifferent), was not going to trade him after his rookie season. This was not a Josh Rosen situation. He did show promise which gave us Giants fans hope that he would become a possible franchise QB. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
Let me ask you a question, what if Jones ended up being the franchise QB. Three years later, would you point back to 2019 and admit how wrong you were? I mean, I know he is no Nick Mullens, but to spend all day and night on the same subject must be exhausting for you.
Quote:
Not revisionist. I said it before the 2019 season was over.
Just because you were right, does not mean it isn't revisionist theory. As I said, a GM who drafted Jones in the first round (right, wrong or indifferent), was not going to trade him after his rookie season. This was not a Josh Rosen situation. He did show promise which gave us Giants fans hope that he would become a possible franchise QB. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
Let me ask you a question, what if Jones ended up being the franchise QB. Three years later, would you point back to 2019 and admit how wrong you were? I mean, I know he is no Nick Mullens, but to spend all day and night on the same subject must be exhausting for you.
I would point out how wrong I was if Jones worked out. I have no problem doing that. But he didn't.
Where are the people admitting that they were wrong on him? I've seen a few, but not many.
I think the Giants have knowledge of the seriousness of the injury and will probably hold onto him for this upcoming season. the Dead cap is $8,180,000. Combine that with any QB you have to sign and we just dont have the cap space to vring in a starting vet QB. Jones sa;ary for next year is only $965,000. Youre not going to find a better option for the price if he is healthy.
If hes not healthy then you need to find an option. We need a backup either way. I think the options in the draft do not fit where we pick. Unless we trade down a 1st round QB doesnt seem to fit the value. Its early and maybe a QB will emerge for the draft.
So for me I would roll the dice one more season with DJ, draft a prospect QB and sign a vet backup that has more upside than Glennon. Get the cap under control and see where we are next season.
I would point out how wrong I was if Jones worked out. I have no problem doing that. But he didn't.
Where are the people admitting that they were wrong on him? I've seen a few, but not many.
Terps, there are plenty on here (myself included), who have admitted they were wrong on Jones. I think the majority of us were just so used to having #10 back there, we wanted so bad to Jones to be that 14-15 year signal caller we didn't have to worry about. It didn't work out.
I didn't realize there was a scoreboard on BBI that is keeping count of being right or wrong. Is there a reason you want so desperately for people to admit they were wrong? I don't know man, that is pretty strange, but you do you.
Quote:
Or a retread vet in 2022? To win 7 instead of 4 games?
Serious question: what is the objective?
I generally agree with your perspective and I don't place any value on wins in a lost season. But I think you need some level of competence at the QB position on the roster. I don't think it's a good idea to play 17 games that are like our end of season run (maybe that's coaching, OL, whatever - but you need to be able to pass the ball).
In football I think you need some semblance of a "real team" to evaluate guys, help guys improve, and keep guys engaged. If you go into camp hopeless, it's a long, long season. And it's not like basketball where there are more games than practices and guys can work on getting their own stats. Practices suuuck when you know you have a hopeless team with no chance to win.
Long-term, and in a vacuum, full-blown experimentation makes sense. If we did it, I wouldn't complain. But I don't know how realistic it is.
Ok, Jerry, you convinced me. Mariota would be a suitable signing.
Not really. Keep fighting that good fight, wish you all the best in searching for your BBI glory.
Minshew has a cap hit of $1mm, so you acquire him, deal Jones for whatever you can get and you’ve saved cap space and upgraded the position.
Quote:
I would point out how wrong I was if Jones worked out. I have no problem doing that. But he didn't.
Where are the people admitting that they were wrong on him? I've seen a few, but not many.
Terps, there are plenty on here (myself included), who have admitted they were wrong on Jones. I think the majority of us were just so used to having #10 back there, we wanted so bad to Jones to be that 14-15 year signal caller we didn't have to worry about. It didn't work out.
I didn't realize there was a scoreboard on BBI that is keeping count of being right or wrong. Is there a reason you want so desperately for people to admit they were wrong? I don't know man, that is pretty strange, but you do you.
Terps has taken a lot of crap over the last few years. He been often, and sometimes vehemently, called wrong. And now that Gettleman's chickens have come home to roost, which Terps called in real time, few want to admit they were wrong in all the crap they tossed his way
Quote:
In comment 15560982 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I would point out how wrong I was if Jones worked out. I have no problem doing that. But he didn't.
Where are the people admitting that they were wrong on him? I've seen a few, but not many.
Terps, there are plenty on here (myself included), who have admitted they were wrong on Jones. I think the majority of us were just so used to having #10 back there, we wanted so bad to Jones to be that 14-15 year signal caller we didn't have to worry about. It didn't work out.
I didn't realize there was a scoreboard on BBI that is keeping count of being right or wrong. Is there a reason you want so desperately for people to admit they were wrong? I don't know man, that is pretty strange, but you do you.
Terps has taken a lot of crap over the last few years. He been often, and sometimes vehemently, called wrong. And now that Gettleman's chickens have come home to roost, which Terps called in real time, few want to admit they were wrong in all the crap they tossed his way
lol. I like Terps except for the negative shit on every other thread (and to be fair some of the arrogance with which he posts it), but the dude is just a fan just like anyone else on BBI. We all get some right and some wrong. If he was that fucking prophetic as you seem to believe he would be working in the NFL in a front office.
Jones will be here next year IMO. For good, bad, or ugly nothing else makes any sense. If the GM LOVES a QB draft him. I don't see it, I think we go OL 1st 2 picks (I sure fucking hope so anyway) and bring in a vet (NOT Trubisky) to compete with Jones.
Whoever those two guys want, I want.
Of course, if Schoen is our GM, same thing applies here….whoever he chooses to be our HC, and whoever he wants…..I want!
No offense to all you guys, but I couldn’t care less who you want or who I want…I only care about who our top 2 guys want. That will be my guy!
With a divisional opponent, I think that would come at a premium that would be too steep. Which would be a smart play. But I think they really like him. And they should because the cost-benefit is very much on the right side for Philly.
It was a good idea...back in August.
Wish we had thought of it...
;-)