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Why Joe Hortiz won’t want to be GM

djstat : 1/19/2022 1:43 am
Joe Hortiz has grown up in the Ravens organization, similar to Eric DeCosta. Hortiz has spent 20 years with Ravens and worked his way up in the organization where ownership stays out of the way.

Those of you who do not live in Baltimore do not realize that the Ravens organization lacks the disfunction that rules the Giants. When Brian Billick was fired as head coach of the Ravens in 2007, owner Steve Biscotti anointed Ozzie Newsome to lead the process to hire a new head coach. Newsome’s process was similar to the one he oversaw when Billick was hired in 1999. The process included members of different areas of the firm to collaborate together to identify a head coach. Newsome was joined by Biscotti, PR Director Kevin Byrne, Director of Football Operations Pat Moriarty and DeCosta to be part of the process. The group came to a consensus and ultimately John Harbaugh was hired. Newsome made the final decision.

The Giants displayed their problems with Hortiz interview with Chris Mara being part of the process. Short of being told Chris was part of the process because he was retiring from personnel, Hortiz sees the disfunction in front of him.

Hortiz is very close with DeCosta. DeCosta, for years turned down GM opportunities and even declined to interview for other organizations unless he found the perfect situation and Horitz will be no different. Horitz got one leak at the disfunction and will not entertain a second interview request. Steve Biscotti will reward him with a new contract and pay him too dollar to keep the front office in check and protect Horitz from the NYG train wreck.
An intelligent writer  
Grizz99 : 1/19/2022 3:41 am : link
Who compromises himself with certitudes and presents opinion and speculation as fact.
Which is not to say he's wrong just......
RE: An intelligent writer  
Beer Man : 1/19/2022 4:34 am : link
In comment 15560383 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
Who compromises himself with certitudes and presents opinion and speculation as fact.
Which is not to say he's wrong just......
+1
Who knows?  
George from PA : 1/19/2022 4:38 am : link
One ego has away to overcome anything....I can make it anywhere.


People are over thinking it.....and certainly overly concern about Chris Mara
This read like a really good fan fiction.  
bLiTz 2k : 1/19/2022 5:00 am : link
In all seriousness I think you're making some incredible leaps on this one. Anything is possible...I guess.
You'd need a big pair  
TroyArchersGhost : 1/19/2022 5:33 am : link
To tell a 46 year-old man not to grab his chance at the brass ring and set him and his family up for life. There are only 32 of these jobs in the world. Nothing is guaranteed in life, and Hortiz may never get the opportunity again.

But frankly, if Hortiz can't do his own thinking and let's others exert undue influence on him, he definitely wouldn't be a good fit for the Giants (with all the cooks in our kitchen) and I don't want him.
It's perfectly reasonable speculation  
DavidinBMNY : 1/19/2022 5:59 am : link
That Horitz declined to proceed, albeit just speculation. He could for example have been interviewing or doing something else and the interview is just later on.
I love when BBI uses absolutes  
jvm52106 : 1/19/2022 6:15 am : link
When sharing opinions where they have Zero first hand knowledge.

Everyone here understands that had Judge coached the way he spoke- prior to the last few weeks- that we would not even be doing an outside search for GM let alone a new HC..

Can we at least let the process finish before bashing the results?
I’d anticipate the GM choice will get a 6 year deal  
Sean : 1/19/2022 6:23 am : link
I think this job will come with a VERY long leash.
Every single Giants fan who heard Mara's presser...  
Jim in Tampa : 1/19/2022 6:30 am : link
knew that Chris Mara wasn't going anywhere and would be part of the GM interviews as well. That means Hortiz also had this information.

If Hortiz was as opposed to this as you suggest and wouldn't even consider the job, I doubt that he would have even taken the interview.

It's a moot point anyway as Schoen appears to be the front-runner.
If this is asshat information  
Mayo2JZ : 1/19/2022 6:38 am : link
then please say so likewise if this is your opinion then please say so
Interviews work both ways  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/19/2022 6:46 am : link
You ever interview for a job and not like what you hear? Not like the position or work or something? Happens all the time.
I buy that as a theory at least  
Jerry in_DC : 1/19/2022 7:34 am : link
These guys are just guys. They're people, not promotion robots. Most reasonably successful people have had discussions about jobs and chose not to pursue them - sometime even if it's more money, bigger title etc. Do you want to move your family? Did you like the people? Did you just get a little bit of a bad feeling about it? Did a few small negatives add up to convince you not to make a big change?

As for why he took the interview? The interview has no cost. Its a frigging conference call. We're on them all day. Taking a phone call with the potential of a great opportunity plus just getting experience in the interview process is a complete no brainer. And more importantly, who knows what leverage that gave him with the Ravens? Maybe he just walked into a massive raise.
Isn’t this just a regurgitation  
10thAve : 1/19/2022 7:40 am : link
of what Mook80 post yesterday from his source?
Not sure why  
5BowlsSoon : 1/19/2022 8:09 am : link
Chris Mara being involved in the interview would scare away candidates. How is this perceived as dysfunctional? I’m sure they know who he is by his last name.
it is what it is, can't attract everyone  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2022 8:26 am : link
if he wants to wait for the best possible situation than that's his prerogative, he might have to wait a while though. Some guys will be up for the challenge, some won't.
Apologies for not stating it was an opinion  
djstat : 1/19/2022 8:26 am : link
For those of you who decided to focus on my view as me stating “fact or absolutes” and not adding the disclaimer of “Here is my opinion.” I understand starting a thread on BBI is gospel and if you do so, be prepared to be attacked.

You can be living in fantasy land if you think the presence or part of Chris Mara would not impact candidates, but his history and involvement is well documented. If Dan Duggar can write an article with comments from current and former coaches and staff from the Giants org do you think we’ll respected candidates cannot do the same?

I happen to live in Baltimore and local media, many of whom have close ties to Ravens have focused on the Giants structure and the amount of family members tied in through the Mara family.

So keep attacking the structure and ignore the message. While it might be his shot at the Brass ring, Horitz and anyone else just witnessed Joe Judge take his shot at the brass ring and it possibly has set his career back a decade.
then why take the first interview?  
GiantNatty : 1/19/2022 8:27 am : link
the only reason he would turn down a second interview is because CM, an owner, was present during the first? And you don't think Hortiz would have known this before taking the first interview?
RE: Apologies for not stating it was an opinion  
BigBlueShock : 1/19/2022 8:30 am : link
In comment 15560451 djstat said:
Quote:
For those of you who decided to focus on my view as me stating “fact or absolutes” and not adding the disclaimer of “Here is my opinion.” I understand starting a thread on BBI is gospel and if you do so, be prepared to be attacked.

You can be living in fantasy land if you think the presence or part of Chris Mara would not impact candidates, but his history and involvement is well documented. If Dan Duggar can write an article with comments from current and former coaches and staff from the Giants org do you think we’ll respected candidates cannot do the same?

I happen to live in Baltimore and local media, many of whom have close ties to Ravens have focused on the Giants structure and the amount of family members tied in through the Mara family.

So keep attacking the structure and ignore the message. While it might be his shot at the Brass ring, Horitz and anyone else just witnessed Joe Judge take his shot at the brass ring and it possibly has set his career back a decade.

If you live in Baltimore and are so in tune with the inner workings of the front office you could at least get the guys name right.
RE: then why take the first interview?  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2022 8:31 am : link
In comment 15560453 GiantNatty said:
Quote:
the only reason he would turn down a second interview is because CM, an owner, was present during the first? And you don't think Hortiz would have known this before taking the first interview?


He's marketing himself, meeting people, opening doors. I'd take the interview if I was him - you never know what will be said in the interview and you'll never know if you don't go. It isn't a waste of time for either side to talk through things and feel out the situation.

Not say I agree with the OP's reasons why, but if Hortiz wants to be a GM one day he's going to have to actually meet with teams regardless of whether he has 100% interest in that particular franchise or not. This isn't a pool of 32 jobs either, its a handful per year.
Is this all  
mittenedman : 1/19/2022 8:33 am : link
in your head? LOL.
This statement is completely illogical  
UberAlias : 1/19/2022 8:41 am : link
"The Giants displayed their problems with Hortiz interview with Chris Mara being part of the process." Every candidate would 100% want CM to be there in the interview so that they can ask direct questions about his role in the organization and how it relates to the GM position. Any candidate who would prefer him not to be there and not be given the opportunity to discuss the situation with him there in the room would be an idiot and should not be considered.
Also  
UberAlias : 1/19/2022 8:43 am : link
are we to assume that the other 5-6 candidates who are not having a 2nd interview also declined because of your perceived disfunction?
Believe Baltimore has typically promoted from within for years  
chick310 : 1/19/2022 8:46 am : link
just like the Giants, although obviously more successful at it over the recent past.

However, read that a couple of Ozzie Newsome's guys have left their system to become GMs over the years but have failed badly in that capacity. Phil Savage and George Kokinis had a very rocky short stints with the Browns. It was back around 2005-2010 and may have been related to Browns dysfunction too, but either way both were released. I think Kokinis went back to Ravens.

Count me in as one who is having trouble deciphering  
Drewcon40 : 1/19/2022 8:51 am : link
opinion/speculation and actual events. This isn't specific to the OP but the search in general. I thought the Giants were meeting with Schoen and Poles (which they did) but also flying in Hortiz, Adam Peters and Ossenfort from Tennessee. Peters completed his first round Monday and Ossenfort is also under consideration for Chicago. I am so sorry as I am sure this information has been posted elsewhere. Is there/will there be a statement or announcement from either side (Hortiz, Peters and Ossenfort) that the search has concluded or have thier interviews simply haven't been scheduled yet?
RE: Isn’t this just a regurgitation  
jestersdead : 1/19/2022 8:55 am : link
In comment 15560419 10thAve said:
Quote:
of what Mook80 post yesterday from his source?

I read this and thought the same thing...Guy writes a post like he is quoting an article, only to be quoting another BBI poster. I never heard the interview part regarding Chris Mara being in the room. If Hortiz has any balls and wants to resurrect an organization, he'd been extremely interested in this job. And could definitely say. "If you want me, I'd like Chris to be an owner and not be part of player scouting/personnel b/c Im going to need to make changes that suit my style and implement what was successful in Baltimore"

If the Ravens are such a well functioning machine and Hortiz sees the error of the way in East Rutherford, sounds like he would be the perfect GM to bring the business up to speed and how things work.

Can't have a GM oversee the coaching search, when you don't have a GM in the building.
I think its idiotic that candidiates who are going into the Giants  
blueblood : 1/19/2022 8:57 am : link
have no idea how the Giants operate. These people know FAR more about the inner workings of these teams than any of us ever will. They have plenty of contacts and background info.
RE: I think its idiotic that candidiates who are going into the Giants  
ron mexico : 1/19/2022 9:00 am : link
In comment 15560489 blueblood said:
Quote:
have no idea how the Giants operate. These people know FAR more about the inner workings of these teams than any of us ever will. They have plenty of contacts and background info.


You still take the interview and see for yourself though
Your post is certainly an opinion someone could hold  
Mike from Ohio : 1/19/2022 9:03 am : link
but it is just that - opinion based on a lot of assumed facts.

Sorry, but writing opinions and assumptions as facts to support a point of view is one of my pet peeves.
Imagine GM candidates get to ask questions, discuss hierarchy  
chick310 : 1/19/2022 9:06 am : link
and perform their own due diligence which may even include speaking to others familiar to the NY Giants organization.

djstat - are you suggesting Chris Maras presence alone at the interviews will turn off viable candidates? It seems to me Hortiz or any other guy being interviewed would want the Giants to be as transparent as possible before he possibly has to make a career decision.
Either he backed off  
arniefez : 1/19/2022 9:11 am : link
Or the Giants picked his brain and moved on. I’m fine with either. The Giants are about to move into the 21st NFL century with one of their finalists
RE: Either he backed off  
Drewcon40 : 1/19/2022 9:26 am : link
In comment 15560513 arniefez said:
Quote:
Or the Giants picked his brain and moved on. I’m fine with either. The Giants are about to move into the 21st NFL century with one of their finalists


arniefez - I mean this as a pure question and not questioning your post, it has been confirmed that he won't be coming in for the 2nd interview?
Peppers posted the other day  
Strahan91 : 1/19/2022 9:27 am : link
that Hortiz will tell anyone who will listen his aspirations to be a GM. Given that nugget, I think it's unlikely he has no interest in leaving Baltimore.
The Ravens’ process of hiring a HC is enlightening but a HC hiring  
Ivan15 : 1/19/2022 9:31 am : link
Process should be a lot different than hiring a GM. The Ravens did not follow the same process when replacing Newsome.

So this whole story is irrelevant.
I don't think anyone is keeping score on the 2nd interviews  
UberAlias : 1/19/2022 9:32 am : link
Info seems to be held very tight to the vest. Most credible info suggests Schoen and Poles, but has been fuzzy, to my eyes at least.
RE: I don't think anyone is keeping score on the 2nd interviews  
Strahan91 : 1/19/2022 9:36 am : link
In comment 15560544 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Info seems to be held very tight to the vest. Most credible info suggests Schoen and Poles, but has been fuzzy, to my eyes at least.

Good point. Schoen's second interview was reported after the interview had already begun.
RE: Imagine GM candidates get to ask questions, discuss hierarchy  
joeinpa : 1/19/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15560503 chick310 said:
Quote:
and perform their own due diligence which may even include speaking to others familiar to the NY Giants organization.

djstat - are you suggesting Chris Maras presence alone at the interviews will turn off viable candidates? It seems to me Hortiz or any other guy being interviewed would want the Giants to be as transparent as possible before he possibly has to make a career decision.


I think he is. Giants have done everything Gettleman, Abrams, Judge many thought they would not do. For some, rather than concede that pt, it s on to the next narrative,
RE: You'd need a big pair  
Joe Beckwith : 1/19/2022 10:27 am : link
In comment 15560389 TroyArchersGhost said:
Quote:
To tell a 46 year-old man not to grab his chance at the brass ring and set him and his family up for life. There are only 32 of these jobs in the world. Nothing is guaranteed in life, and Hortiz may never get the opportunity again.

But frankly, if Hortiz can't do his own thinking and let's others exert undue influence on him, he definitely wouldn't be a good fit for the Giants (with all the cooks in our kitchen) and I don't want him.

+1. I pretty much said the same yesterday on another post.
Chris M in the Interview Process isn't a problem  
Rafflee : 1/19/2022 10:50 am : link
He's family...he's knowledgeable...he's a part owner...he's a trusted advisor.... Franjkly, I would't want John and Tisch ONLY in the room.

The question ahead is about the structure and power that they pledge to the new GM, and their strength in sticking to that commitment
RE: You'd need a big pair  
Section331 : 1/19/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15560389 TroyArchersGhost said:
Quote:
To tell a 46 year-old man not to grab his chance at the brass ring and set him and his family up for life. There are only 32 of these jobs in the world. Nothing is guaranteed in life, and Hortiz may never get the opportunity again.

But frankly, if Hortiz can't do his own thinking and let's others exert undue influence on him, he definitely wouldn't be a good fit for the Giants (with all the cooks in our kitchen) and I don't want him.


We get it, there are only 32 of these jobs, blah, blah, blah. Like any GM candidate should immediately accept any offer that comes along, 'cause I've heard that there are only 32 of them!

Hortiz and others like him are on short lists to become GM's. If they smell a rat with a franchise when they interview, they will get other opportunities. What the almost certainly won't get is a 2nd chance if they take the first offer they get and things go south.
He’s right for the wrong  
Dave on the UWS : 1/19/2022 11:01 am : link
reasons. NO candidate will have a problem with Chris being in the interview room. What they ALL should have a problem with, is the Sen VP of player personnel reports DIRECTLY to John, not the GM. I’m fact it’s been reported, numerous times, that the Giants hierarchical structure has Chris Mara AND the GM on the same tier. That essentially means the GM is a figurehead and the Maras are essentially the GMs behind the scenes. No candidate worth a damn should take this job frankly.
RE: He’s right for the wrong  
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2022 11:08 am : link
In comment 15560732 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
reasons. NO candidate will have a problem with Chris being in the interview room. What they ALL should have a problem with, is the Sen VP of player personnel reports DIRECTLY to John, not the GM. I’m fact it’s been reported, numerous times, that the Giants hierarchical structure has Chris Mara AND the GM on the same tier. That essentially means the GM is a figurehead and the Maras are essentially the GMs behind the scenes. No candidate worth a damn should take this job frankly.


Exactly, so stop all this interviewing nonsense and just bring back Gettleman...
Lost me  
CMc in 342 : 1/19/2022 11:18 am : link
When you argued how virtuous the Ravens process was by including a variety of opinions, including that of the PR Director, but somehow the presence of Chris Mara in the interview is dysfunctional. C’mon man. What if it leaked that Pat Hanlon was part of the search committee?
It's also possible  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/19/2022 11:28 am : link
that they liked Hortiz but didn't considee him in the top 2/3.

Why are we assuming this guy is a slam dunk and that the only conceivable reason he won't be the GM is that he declined a second interview?

A lot of huge leaps being taken on this subject.

Maybe they didn't like him as well.
RE: Apologies for not stating it was an opinion  
Racer : 1/19/2022 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15560451 djstat said:
Quote:
For those of you who decided to focus on my view as me stating “fact or absolutes” and not adding the disclaimer of “Here is my opinion.” I understand starting a thread on BBI is gospel and if you do so, be prepared to be attacked.

You can be living in fantasy land if you think the presence or part of Chris Mara would not impact candidates, but his history and involvement is well documented. If Dan Duggar can write an article with comments from current and former coaches and staff from the Giants org do you think we’ll respected candidates cannot do the same?

I happen to live in Baltimore and local media, many of whom have close ties to Ravens have focused on the Giants structure and the amount of family members tied in through the Mara family.

So keep attacking the structure and ignore the message. While it might be his shot at the Brass ring, Horitz and anyone else just witnessed Joe Judge take his shot at the brass ring and it possibly has set his career back a decade.


You left out the fact that the Ravens have repeatedly, in an amicable way, told certain free agents the organization needs to manage a salary cap, it's not personal, to test the market and bring the best deal back to the Ravens before making any decisions. I interpreted your OP as opinion because I follow your posts and have become accustomed to, shall we say, how you present ideas(!). Too much coach in you.
You might be accidentally correct about Hortiz djstat  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/19/2022 1:38 pm : link
but you seem to be indicating that living in Baltimore makes you somehow privy to what Hortiz is thinking. I don't buy that.

After that you make some huge logical leaps based on your supposed Hortiz expertise.

I find it hard to believe that he thinks the Giants are so dysfunctional that he turned down a 2nd interview, but for some reason that defies logic he took the first interview.

It's going to take more than "I live in Baltimore" to convince me of that.
RE: He’s right for the wrong  
UberAlias : 1/19/2022 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15560732 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
reasons. NO candidate will have a problem with Chris being in the interview room. What they ALL should have a problem with, is the Sen VP of player personnel reports DIRECTLY to John, not the GM. I’m fact it’s been reported, numerous times, that the Giants hierarchical structure has Chris Mara AND the GM on the same tier. That essentially means the GM is a figurehead and the Maras are essentially the GMs behind the scenes. No candidate worth a damn should take this job frankly.
Do you have a link to source? Chris Mara's position is an ownership position, not within football operations plus your statements about GM as figure head completely contradicts what's communicated.
RE: He’s right for the wrong  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15560732 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
reasons.

I’m fact it’s been reported, numerous times, that the Giants hierarchical structure has Chris Mara AND the GM on the same tier.

Would you mind sharing some of those reports? TIA.
RE: An intelligent writer  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/19/2022 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15560383 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
Who compromises himself with certitudes and presents opinion and speculation as fact.
Which is not to say he's wrong just......

RE: Apologies for not stating it was an opinion  
Beer Man : 1/20/2022 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15560451 djstat said:
Quote:
For those of you who decided to focus on my view as me stating “fact or absolutes” and not adding the disclaimer of “Here is my opinion.” I understand starting a thread on BBI is gospel and if you do so, be prepared to be attacked.

You can be living in fantasy land if you think the presence or part of Chris Mara would not impact candidates, but his history and involvement is well documented. If Dan Duggar can write an article with comments from current and former coaches and staff from the Giants org do you think we’ll respected candidates cannot do the same?

I happen to live in Baltimore and local media, many of whom have close ties to Ravens have focused on the Giants structure and the amount of family members tied in through the Mara family.

So keep attacking the structure and ignore the message. While it might be his shot at the Brass ring, Horitz and anyone else just witnessed Joe Judge take his shot at the brass ring and it possibly has set his career back a decade.
Have you considered a career in politics? Just a thought.
My mother’s, sister’s best friend said that he heard  
bwitz : 1/20/2022 11:48 pm : link
from his aunt’s, neighbor’s favorite barber that this was a bunch of bullshit.
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