would be something very attractive to Mara. Not saying Schoen would 100% want Daboll to be his HC, but having years of these guys working together and achieving success and being on the same page is exactly what this organization needs. It sure sounds like Flores has created drama and wants more control. If Im a first time GM, not sure how attractive that is to me.
the next GM will want. It is very easy to assume that if Schoen is hired he just takes someone from Buffalo with him, but we have no idea what Schoen actually thinks of Daboll.
Get the GM hire right, and then get a few good HC interviews lined up and go from there.
That said, I would guess it depends on whether Schoen likes to get the best players for his HC's systems, or whether he likes to get the best players and lets the HC worry about how to use them. Daboll's the man if its the former.
He’s not a first timer but also not your typical retread either.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
RE: I can look it up but maybe someone knows right away
That said, I would guess it depends on whether Schoen likes to get the best players for his HC's systems, or whether he likes to get the best players and lets the HC worry about how to use them. Daboll's the man if its the former.
This. Hire the guy you think is right for the org. Let him make his choice. We are just along for the ride...let's just hope it's a good one
I think some are overstating Schoen and Daboll working together
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
But all of the stories about how difficult he is to work with really do give me pause.
It is definitely something that has to be looked into, but some of the claims seem far-fetched. I do wonder if leaks coming out of Miami about how difficult he was is spin to take the pressure off of Ross and the GM.
RE: I think some are overstating Schoen and Daboll working together
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
I disagree with this Jim. I really believe this time the GM will pick the coach, Mara will ok it.
RE: RE: I think some are overstating Schoen and Daboll working together
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
There are only 32 NFL GM spots, Schoen will take the job in a heartbeat if offered, regardless of if he gets to run the coach hiring process.
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
There are only 32 NFL GM spots, Schoen will take the job in a heartbeat if offered, regardless of if he gets to run the coach hiring process.
This is absolutely false. It's not reality and repeated on here ad nauseum. The Pegulas in Buffalo are notoriously meddling and controlling, but Beane as GM has the oversight of the coaching staff. I can tell you point blank from folks in the know a lot of executives refrain from going to places where there's muddy waters on decision making or too many cooks in the "collaborative" kitchen.
GMs absolutely get it in writing (maybe except internal hires like Abrams who would just be happy to be promoted with more money/title).
Schoen is not coming here as GM without assurances and clear delegation/powers in writing.
RE: RE: Flores is number 2 in my list after Harbaugh
He’s not a first timer but also not your typical retread either.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
You agreed with something I didn't say.
Anyway, offensive brain power is fine but the QB is more important. McVay's tree is getting a lot of hype yet Zac Taylor started to take off with Burrow present and healthy and Staley has Herbert.
It seems like Flores is trying to pair up with Watson via back channels which even though might not be possible here, shows an acknowledgement that a head coach is nothing in this league without a QB.
Furthermore, while acknowledging offense is king in the modern NFL, I have no interest in turning around and letting the defense turn to shit.
I want a head coach.
RE: RE: RE: Flores is number 2 in my list after Harbaugh
He’s not a first timer but also not your typical retread either.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
You agreed with something I didn't say.
Anyway, offensive brain power is fine but the QB is more important. McVay's tree is getting a lot of hype yet Zac Taylor started to take off with Burrow present and healthy and Staley has Herbert.
It seems like Flores is trying to pair up with Watson via back channels which even though might not be possible here, shows an acknowledgement that a head coach is nothing in this league without a QB.
Furthermore, while acknowledging offense is king in the modern NFL, I have no interest in turning around and letting the defense turn to shit.
I want a head coach.
Said this on another thread, but let's just say that Flores gets the job and somehow attracts an amazing OC. That OC is going to be a HC candidate after year 1 or year 2. And there will continue to be more disruption on the offensive side of the ball, where games are won in the 21st century.
I want the offense to be the stable side of the ball, and if we have to shuffle DCs because our team is successful, so be it.
of going against an owner in Miami…doubt this would be ignored by John or Chris Mara…
Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter if Flores was correct on Tua…that’s the pick ownership wanted. I can’t even imagine why Flores would jump from the frying pan into the fire.
Finally, the fact that more GMs didn’t make the 2nd round of interviews is possibly d@mning, as perhaps they ultimately realized the Player Personnel Department has owners or family member within it, that will not be moved from their current roles, under any circumstances. That’s a game changer for sure if you really seek to fix a decade long problem.
Then again, there’s a lot of double-speak in this organization…probably just as much as some naïve GMs candidates seeking a 1 in 32 job…
Something happened down there and there are too many rumors about him being difficult and wanting power. Seems like the Giants just had an issue with the coach and the GM not being on the same page. Then there is the whole Gase thing and how well that worked out for our roommates in green. I'm not sure it even matters that much as I think this next coach gets canned after 23 anyway. The Giants seem to be like a rebuilding baseball team who are going to have a few 100 loss seasons before the young guys mature and give them a shot down the road and I can't see any coach overcoming two double digit loss season before the mob sweeps him out. The GM is the important thing here and 2024s hire will get all the glory! This coach needs to keep the ship straight and develop the young guys as best he can without any drama.
I dont knownwhat to believe from the details coming out of Miami, but you have a head coach with a big say in personnel who had a bad offensive line for his entire tenure in Miami, couldn't settle on his coaching staff as there was turnover every season. It looks like he mishandled what was supposed to be a franchise QB because he coveted Watson. Doesn't appear to be a great communicator or CEO type coach. And never made the playoffs.
My gut is not that he'd be an abject failure, but that his tenure would be the shorter than maybe some other guys we could hire. The stuff we've all heard doesnt just arise from nowhere. May not be 100% accurate, but probably is to some degree.
I really like how his Dolphins teams play. He's also from here so he'll understand the media and fans (unlike Judge) so that's a plus I guess.
Daboll honestly scares me. It kind of feels like the 'flavor of the month' candidate ala McAdoo. I know he's done a great job at Buffalo but look at the talent on that team. They are LOADED.
I think Judge and Getty were tolerated by a far too forgiving Mara. Now I don’t know how a hard ass coach like Flores would work with the new GM. It seems like there’s a lot of drama around him. But he’s a winner. And I like the fact that he crossed swords with the ass clowns owning and running the Phins. Maybe Phins central are the drama queens and Flores was just trying to do his job and win. Who knows?
But, I like the idea of a coach that comes in here with experience and success and big stick to swing around and knock things into shape. I love the idea of a smart tough D-co leading the team too. Are you kidding me? I love the idea of building a tough defense that has a fucking attitude. That’s how we used to do things around here. And I know it’s an offense league now. But a defense that knocks the snot out of people? Sign me up.
I don’t want some touchy feely kumbaya singing everyone gets a prize coach. Last Supe for Big Blue? Coughlin. What did he do? Started off as a hard acre “injuries are a cancer” task master and then took his hand off the whip a bit. I don’t believe in players coaches and I don’t really care if everyone in Jints Central is holding hands and singing songs. Just freaking win!
I think Flores can really coach
Greg from LI : 9:53 am : link : reply
But all of the stories about how difficult he is to work with really do give me pause.
That's not how I recall it. I thought the Giants needed Miami / Flores permission to talk to and offer the Giants DC job to Graham since it was a "lateral move". I think the Giants added "Asst Head Coach" to Graham's title even though I believe the NFL doesn't consider Asst HC a real title or promotion.
I think Flores can really coach
Greg from LI : 9:53 am : link : reply
But all of the stories about how difficult he is to work with really do give me pause.
That's not how I recall it. I thought the Giants needed Miami / Flores permission to talk to and offer the Giants DC job to Graham since it was a "lateral move". I think the Giants added "Asst Head Coach" to Graham's title even though I believe the NFL doesn't consider Asst HC a real title or promotion.
some speculation Dolphins are pushing hard for Daboll to have him help develop Tua. That is an attractive job for Daboll where given Grier's situation, he might get more control.
Something happened down there and there are too many rumors about him being difficult and wanting power. Seems like the Giants just had an issue with the coach and the GM not being on the same page. Then there is the whole Gase thing and how well that worked out for our roommates in green. I'm not sure it even matters that much as I think this next coach gets canned after 23 anyway. The Giants seem to be like a rebuilding baseball team who are going to have a few 100 loss seasons before the young guys mature and give them a shot down the road and I can't see any coach overcoming two double digit loss season before the mob sweeps him out. The GM is the important thing here and 2024s hire will get all the glory! This coach needs to keep the ship straight and develop the young guys as best he can without any drama.
"Something happened..." "Rumors..." Once again, we don't know what we don't know.
That's not how I recall it. I thought the Giants needed Miami / Flores permission to talk to and offer the Giants DC job to Graham since it was a "lateral move". I think the Giants added "Asst Head Coach" to Graham's title even though I believe the NFL doesn't consider Asst HC a real title or promotion.
That’s what I thought
Yeah, dunno where this whole " Flores fired Graham" thing is coming from.Didn't happen.
Get the GM hire right, and then get a few good HC interviews lined up and go from there.
That said, I would guess it depends on whether Schoen likes to get the best players for his HC's systems, or whether he likes to get the best players and lets the HC worry about how to use them. Daboll's the man if its the former.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
The answer to my question is no. Schoen left in 2017 and Flores came in 2019.
No. Flores only went to Miami in 2019. Schoen went from Miami to Buffalo in 2017.
That said, I would guess it depends on whether Schoen likes to get the best players for his HC's systems, or whether he likes to get the best players and lets the HC worry about how to use them. Daboll's the man if its the former.
This. Hire the guy you think is right for the org. Let him make his choice. We are just along for the ride...let's just hope it's a good one
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
From unsuccessful Belichick tree (just tried that)
Likely to keep Mr Bend and Break Graham as DC
Seems to have “lost it” with his Miami staff
Let him go somewhere else
From unsuccessful Belichick tree (just tried that)
Likely to keep Mr Bend and Break Graham as DC
Seems to have “lost it” with his Miami staff
Let him go somewhere else
Flores fired Graham, I don't think he'd bring PG back here.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
It is definitely something that has to be looked into, but some of the claims seem far-fetched. I do wonder if leaks coming out of Miami about how difficult he was is spin to take the pressure off of Ross and the GM.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
I disagree with this Jim. I really believe this time the GM will pick the coach, Mara will ok it.
Quote:
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
There are only 32 NFL GM spots, Schoen will take the job in a heartbeat if offered, regardless of if he gets to run the coach hiring process.
Quote:
In comment 15560559 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
Sure they were both in Buffalo last year, but how much interaction does and assistant GM have with the teams OC? It's certainly not like a GM and HC working together.
Also, I don't think that Schoen would be allowed to pick the new HC. My guess is that Mara will ask him for his top 2 or 3 choices and then Mara will select his top choice from the GM's list.
I also think that after hiring 3 straight HCs with either no HC experience (McAdoo and Judge) or no HC success (Schurmu-9 wins in 2 years) Mara may push for a HC with some NFL success. That means Harbaugh, Flores or Pederson.
Disagree. I don't think Schoen would come here unless he can really run the coaching hire process and give his firm recommendation which basically would be a pick.
That's also something Giants can offer as a sweetener from the Bears job which is being run as a crazy dual track process with walled off responsibilities and reporting to George McCaskey.
There are only 32 NFL GM spots, Schoen will take the job in a heartbeat if offered, regardless of if he gets to run the coach hiring process.
This is absolutely false. It's not reality and repeated on here ad nauseum. The Pegulas in Buffalo are notoriously meddling and controlling, but Beane as GM has the oversight of the coaching staff. I can tell you point blank from folks in the know a lot of executives refrain from going to places where there's muddy waters on decision making or too many cooks in the "collaborative" kitchen.
GMs absolutely get it in writing (maybe except internal hires like Abrams who would just be happy to be promoted with more money/title).
Schoen is not coming here as GM without assurances and clear delegation/powers in writing.
Quote:
He’s not a first timer but also not your typical retread either.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
You agreed with something I didn't say.
Anyway, offensive brain power is fine but the QB is more important. McVay's tree is getting a lot of hype yet Zac Taylor started to take off with Burrow present and healthy and Staley has Herbert.
It seems like Flores is trying to pair up with Watson via back channels which even though might not be possible here, shows an acknowledgement that a head coach is nothing in this league without a QB.
Furthermore, while acknowledging offense is king in the modern NFL, I have no interest in turning around and letting the defense turn to shit.
I want a head coach.
Quote:
In comment 15560526 Chris684 said:
Quote:
He’s not a first timer but also not your typical retread either.
I also think Flores is a number 2.
This would be a disappointment. A team that is in dire need of offensive brainpower cannot possibly be thinking about a HC that goes through OCs and OL coaches faster than most people go through junk mail.
You agreed with something I didn't say.
Anyway, offensive brain power is fine but the QB is more important. McVay's tree is getting a lot of hype yet Zac Taylor started to take off with Burrow present and healthy and Staley has Herbert.
It seems like Flores is trying to pair up with Watson via back channels which even though might not be possible here, shows an acknowledgement that a head coach is nothing in this league without a QB.
Furthermore, while acknowledging offense is king in the modern NFL, I have no interest in turning around and letting the defense turn to shit.
I want a head coach.
Said this on another thread, but let's just say that Flores gets the job and somehow attracts an amazing OC. That OC is going to be a HC candidate after year 1 or year 2. And there will continue to be more disruption on the offensive side of the ball, where games are won in the 21st century.
I want the offense to be the stable side of the ball, and if we have to shuffle DCs because our team is successful, so be it.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter if Flores was correct on Tua…that’s the pick ownership wanted. I can’t even imagine why Flores would jump from the frying pan into the fire.
Finally, the fact that more GMs didn’t make the 2nd round of interviews is possibly d@mning, as perhaps they ultimately realized the Player Personnel Department has owners or family member within it, that will not be moved from their current roles, under any circumstances. That’s a game changer for sure if you really seek to fix a decade long problem.
Then again, there’s a lot of double-speak in this organization…probably just as much as some naïve GMs candidates seeking a 1 in 32 job…
I dont knownwhat to believe from the details coming out of Miami, but you have a head coach with a big say in personnel who had a bad offensive line for his entire tenure in Miami, couldn't settle on his coaching staff as there was turnover every season. It looks like he mishandled what was supposed to be a franchise QB because he coveted Watson. Doesn't appear to be a great communicator or CEO type coach. And never made the playoffs.
Don't really want damaged goods at this time. Plus the BB tree does not yield sweet fruit.
Daboll honestly scares me. It kind of feels like the 'flavor of the month' candidate ala McAdoo. I know he's done a great job at Buffalo but look at the talent on that team. They are LOADED.
I'll just be more secure with Flores.
I think Judge and Getty were tolerated by a far too forgiving Mara. Now I don’t know how a hard ass coach like Flores would work with the new GM. It seems like there’s a lot of drama around him. But he’s a winner. And I like the fact that he crossed swords with the ass clowns owning and running the Phins. Maybe Phins central are the drama queens and Flores was just trying to do his job and win. Who knows?
But, I like the idea of a coach that comes in here with experience and success and big stick to swing around and knock things into shape. I love the idea of a smart tough D-co leading the team too. Are you kidding me? I love the idea of building a tough defense that has a fucking attitude. That’s how we used to do things around here. And I know it’s an offense league now. But a defense that knocks the snot out of people? Sign me up.
I don’t want some touchy feely kumbaya singing everyone gets a prize coach. Last Supe for Big Blue? Coughlin. What did he do? Started off as a hard acre “injuries are a cancer” task master and then took his hand off the whip a bit. I don’t believe in players coaches and I don’t really care if everyone in Jints Central is holding hands and singing songs. Just freaking win!
LFG Giants!
Greg from LI : 9:53 am : link : reply
But all of the stories about how difficult he is to work with really do give me pause.
that sounds like Bill Parcells....
Greg from LI : 9:53 am : link : reply
But all of the stories about how difficult he is to work with really do give me pause.
that sounds like Bill Parcells....
Oh yeah? Was Parcells difficult at Air Force?
That’s what I thought
"Something happened..." "Rumors..." Once again, we don't know what we don't know.
If you win, players and coaches will buy in even if you are hard to play for.
Quote:
That's not how I recall it. I thought the Giants needed Miami / Flores permission to talk to and offer the Giants DC job to Graham since it was a "lateral move". I think the Giants added "Asst Head Coach" to Graham's title even though I believe the NFL doesn't consider Asst HC a real title or promotion.
That’s what I thought