Given all of the discussions about this across seemingly every thread, I thought this was noteworthy.
@JordanRaanan
The most encouraging thing to take from this Giants GM search: From what I've heard, they are offering carte blanche to candidates to reshape the organization. The Giants way of operating is about to change drastically no matter who is hired.
1:47 PM · Jan 19, 2022·TweetDeck
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These are things a number of us have wanted for years, and a number of us are shocked.
Is there anyone who anticipated this?
These are things a number of us have wanted for years, and a number of us are shocked.
Is there anyone who anticipated this?
Gettleman wasn’t let go he retired. And even if he had been fired i think 4 years finishing like 19-46 or something, firing him would not have been some groundbreaking development (even for this organization).
Also I think Mara came pretty damn close to keeping Judge but with the QB sneaks on 3rd and 9 we just became too much of a laughing stock of the league and Mara suddenly felt the heat to fire him.
I don’t see how after 10 years of failure how one could promote from within (Abrams) and not look elsewhere. Even this organization— Mara has no choice there’s no silver lining anywhere in this organization he HAS to loook elsewhere otherwise it would be a total embarrassment and he knows it. After a few awful years that’d be one thing but not after a decade of being borderline the worst team in the NFL.
I still would just argue: nothing has happened yet technically. He can promise all he wants and tell the fans and media what they want to hear: historically speaking a tiger doesn’t change its stripes: clueless people don’t know they’re clueless, it’s like one if the main problems in life haha.
Not trying to be pessimistic just saying we seem to go from cynical to easily impressed in a matter of weeks around this time every 2 years.
* Holding on to the "good ole boys", when they didn't have the answers anymore. (Retread Gettleman);etc, etc ....
* Thinking you're smarter than everybody else (like giving "damaged goods" (Kenny Galladay) the farm to sign on.
Sometime you've seen the canvas so many times, you don't know where your corner is. Let's all hope the Maras mean it.
It has been a catastrophic decade. Actual negativity was impossible over that period as the organization sank below even the lowest expectations.
Don't call it negativity or misery, because it wasn't. What was actually present was blind homerism based on hopes, wishes, and little else.
These are things a number of us have wanted for years, and a number of us are shocked.
Is there anyone who anticipated this?
Except for firing Judge, which apparently took Tisch throwing his weight around, those are/were fairly easy decisions for anyone clear minded.
The real test is Mara actually letting the GM do what Mara says he wants: to have unbridled control over the football operations. That is going to be a major culture shock.
Right now I am hoping that the Giants get it right this time. If that ever goes away I'll stop watching. So far only James Dolan's Knicks have managed to put the flame of hope out.
These are things a number of us have wanted for years, and a number of us are shocked.
Is there anyone who anticipated this?
Saying is not doing, and saying isn't proof.
In God we trust. All others, bring data.
Right now I am hoping that the Giants get it right this time. If that ever goes away I'll stop watching. So far only James Dolan's Knicks have managed to put the flame of hope out.
Well said, Fez
I’m not impressed, I’m surprised. This will be the first GM hire in 40 years who hasn’t be a senior manager at the Giants. That’s good.
The Giants issues are not complex:
- They need better output from their college scouting personnel group
- They need better output from the pro scouting personnel group
- They need better output from their resource/team architecture group
- They need better output from the principal who puts it all together
Now have they purged the culprits responsible for the above? That remains to be determined.
This is all so fluid. Time will tell, but the signs thus far-EARLY as it is-have been encouraging.
These are things a number of us have wanted for years, and a number of us are shocked.
Is there anyone who anticipated this?
I didn’t think it was probable but certainly possible. The notion that Mara can’t learn from mistakes never really made sense to me. I bet if we didn’t win in 2011 this would have happened by now.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
No one was debating the futility of the past decade or those responsible
It was the “No Hope as long as Mara s own the team” we railed against. You are correct an angry fan base has help pave the way to needed change.
But many were wrong about John Mara s ability to seek change.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
Am grateful for all of the revolutionists that ushered in this change.
Let me know who I should send my thanks to.
I’m so happy that our fans stood up and called the entire thing out. Eric’s daughter making a simple drawing. Other things like that.
I’m glad it stuck. And I’m glad we’re not listening to an Abrams presser right now.
Let’s see how this all ends up. But I really appreciate how it’s going so far based on what I know.
Quote:
we have people bash others who have been critical and skeptical of this team, FO, and ownership.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
No one was debating the futility of the past decade or those responsible
It was the “No Hope as long as Mara s own the team” we railed against. You are correct an angry fan base has help pave the way to needed change.
But many were wrong about John Mara s ability to seek change.
christian asked a good question.
Who among us thought that Mara would do this? Even those who "railed" against the critics?
What is more, is that there were only a handful who said that it would never change with Mara in charge and most of those made the caveat that unless something really bad happened.
Clown shows everywhere say "Hi"!
Yeah, this franchise is in disaster mode, and they almost, almost, almost still didn't change. It took losing 7 of their last 8 games by double digits including the last 6 in a row, a fan revolt, Eric's daughter's clown photo, a FO twitter meltdown, a HC meltdown, 2 QB sneaks inside the their own 5 yard line, and the non Mara owner to be embarrassed enough to finally read the riot act to Mara. Is it any wonder that people were skeptical. I mean c'mon, seriously. Who among us would have predicted anything like this perfect storm. Has anybody taken the temperature of Hell lately?
If that is your definition of somebody who is amenable to change, I would hate to see your definition of stubborn.
I’m so happy that our fans stood up and called the entire thing out. Eric’s daughter making a simple drawing. Other things like that.
I’m glad it stuck. And I’m glad we’re not listening to an Abrams presser right now.
Let’s see how this all ends up. But I really appreciate how it’s going so far based on what I know.
+1,000,000
A team in crisis? - ( New Window )
This is a beauty:
giantBCP : 9/27/2021 10:45 am : link
If not for the refs, we would be 2-1 right now.
I forgot how early the "blame the refs" mantra had started.
Quote:
we have people bash others who have been critical and skeptical of this team, FO, and ownership.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
Am grateful for all of the revolutionists that ushered in this change.
Let me know who I should send my thanks to.
Thank Gettleman actually.
If he wasn’t such an utter disaster leaving this team in ruins with his awful team architecture and roster building decisions, Mara might still be running with half-measures right now versus these unprecedented actions.
Thanks DG and of course his loyal defenders on BBI for being so completely wrong...
Thanks DG and of course his loyal defenders on BBI for being so completely wrong...
LOL
I remember that thread...
I also remember rolling my eyes at it and deciding it wasn't worth posting on it.
Kudos to cosmicj for nailing this (even the language)...
Launch a formal search for a new GM, hire that person and give them carte blanche to return the franchise to excellence,
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
What a lovely piece of prose, delusional tho it may be.
There was no fan revolution, Trotsky. No watergate commision shining light on unimagined crimes. and no photoshopped picture on BBI is akin to the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The team sucked for 10 years. Gettlemen was universally reviled, Judge had shown his ass over and over.
It was a mindless, riotous, angry mob.
Rightous anger, I'll grant. But a mob none the less.
Some people really love the smell of their own farts
Quote:
In comment 15561545 .McL. said:
Quote:
we have people bash others who have been critical and skeptical of this team, FO, and ownership.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
No one was debating the futility of the past decade or those responsible
It was the “No Hope as long as Mara s own the team” we railed against. You are correct an angry fan base has help pave the way to needed change.
But many were wrong about John Mara s ability to seek change.
christian asked a good question.
Who among us thought that Mara would do this? Even those who "railed" against the critics?
What is more, is that there were only a handful who said that it would never change with Mara in charge and most of those made the caveat that unless something really bad happened.
Clown shows everywhere say "Hi"!
Yeah, this franchise is in disaster mode, and they almost, almost, almost still didn't change. It took losing 7 of their last 8 games by double digits including the last 6 in a row, a fan revolt, Eric's daughter's clown photo, a FO twitter meltdown, a HC meltdown, 2 QB sneaks inside the their own 5 yard line, and the non Mara owner to be embarrassed enough to finally read the riot act to Mara. Is it any wonder that people were skeptical. I mean c'mon, seriously. Who among us would have predicted anything like this perfect storm. Has anybody taken the temperature of Hell lately?
If that is your definition of somebody who is amenable to change, I would hate to see your definition of stubborn.
Actually my definition of change is someone who changed. Not that complicated, but not surprised by your response.
When the Giants hire a new GM this month, it will be the first time since John Mara was in law school they’ve hired someone who hadn’t previously worked in the personnel department.
Every team in the 80s, 90s, 00s,10s, and 20s has been built by a descendant of George Young.
Will he have Carte Blanche? I still think that’s determined if Abrams, Koncz, Pettit, Sternfeld stick around.
Shanahan and Lynch got overlapping six-year deals. With this oil spill that Gettleman has left behind, I would be okay with six years to plan for the short, medium and long term. This fix may take a while.
That said, I think 6 years.
Normal circumstances I think a GM should get 5 years and 2 coaches barring something extraordinary (personal or professional)
1st time HC should get 4, retread should get 3. Those were Kirwins thoughts which I agree with.
The niners were also backed into the corner with the 6 year deals because they were burning through coaches as well.
They also hired Shanny first and he hired the FO.
Quote:
we have people bash others who have been critical and skeptical of this team, FO, and ownership.
Without such criticism the changes that are being promised now, would not even be on the table. These are the asks that the critics have been seeking. I guarantee you that not one critic is miserable about this situation. I think it is safe to say that there is cautious (probably very cautious) optimism. There is also surprise, this is very much out of character for these people.
But make no mistake, if left to their preferred ways this would not be happening. This is a direct result of the realization that there is a fan revolt in progress. Without that revolt, they revert to business as usual.
Instead of bashing those who have been critical, and leading the fan revolt, everybody should be thankful. I know I am. Also, there is no one person who gets the credit. It is the overwhelming crescendo of the critics. And this is a good thing. It's like a mass of people were wandering lost in the desert, and some got tired of the aimless wandering and said we should go this way. After much debate and name calling, people, as a last resort, finally decide to try that way. It turns out to have been correct all along. Instead of being thankful to those who led the mass out of the desert, they are derided for not liking all the other failed directions the mass went in... It's bizarre.
Back to the team...
The fact is we have been promised changes, promised a better product numerous times and gotten shit instead. The hoped for changes never materialize. So yeah, people are still skeptical. The leaders of the mass are saying they are going to go in the direction the critics have said, and they are sort of heading in that direction, but they have veered back off into the desert before. Until they go all the way, the critics will still have some skepticism. The Giants have earned the skepticism.
What a lovely piece of prose, delusional tho it may be.
There was no fan revolution, Trotsky. No watergate commision shining light on unimagined crimes. and no photoshopped picture on BBI is akin to the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The team sucked for 10 years. Gettlemen was universally reviled, Judge had shown his ass over and over.
It was a mindless, riotous, angry mob.
Rightous anger, I'll grant. But a mob none the less.
Some people really love the smell of their own farts
You speak on these things with enough authority to either be way too confident in your opinions or real knowledge of the goings on.
But the irony of the second one is that the closer you are to what is actually happening in the building the more likely you’d want to push bullshit narratives that suit you.
So you are in a bit of a catch 22 there dancing bear. Either you are talking out of your ass overconfidently or you aren’t and you are clearly here with an agenda.
So which is it?
But many were wrong about John Mara s ability to seek change.
.McL. said
If that is your definition of somebody who is amenable to change, I would hate to see your definition of stubborn.
joeinpa said:
Actually my definition of change is someone who changed. Not that complicated, but not surprised by your response.
I wasn't talking about somebody who HAS changed, I was talking about somebody who is AMENABLE or using your word SEEKING change. There is a difference. Somebody can reject, and fight against change until left with no other options. Just because somebody was forced against their preferred choices to change, doesn't mean that they were AMENDABLE or SEEKING it. I can pretty much guarantee you that Mara was not SEEKING these changes.
Plus it remains to be seen if in this case he is truly sincere. As of now the tiger still has his stripes in tact. I hope he is sincere this time, I hope the tiger changes his stripes. We shall see. But the fact remains that it took a perfect shit storm that pretty much left him with no other viable choice. Even if he does this 100% right, it is not clear to me, has he changed or was he forced to do this against his will. I think it is somewhere in the middle but much closer to against his will.
Shanahan and Lynch got overlapping six-year deals. With this oil spill that Gettleman has left behind, I would be okay with six years to plan for the short, medium and long term. This fix may take a while.
I’d be surprised if it was less than 6 years.
Quote:
But many were wrong about John Mara s ability to seek change.
.McL. said
Quote:
If that is your definition of somebody who is amenable to change, I would hate to see your definition of stubborn.
joeinpa said:
Quote:
Actually my definition of change is someone who changed. Not that complicated, but not surprised by your response.
I wasn't talking about somebody who HAS changed, I was talking about somebody who is AMENABLE or using your word SEEKING change. There is a difference. Somebody can reject, and fight against change until left with no other options. Just because somebody was forced against their preferred choices to change, doesn't mean that they were AMENDABLE or SEEKING it. I can pretty much guarantee you that Mara was not SEEKING these changes.
Plus it remains to be seen if in this case he is truly sincere. As of now the tiger still has his stripes in tact. I hope he is sincere this time, I hope the tiger changes his stripes. We shall see. But the fact remains that it took a perfect shit storm that pretty much left him with no other viable choice. Even if he does this 100% right, it is not clear to me, has he changed or was he forced to do this against his will. I think it is somewhere in the middle but much closer to against his will.
Ok, Mara didn’t want to change but was forced by circumstances to be “amendable “ to change. Whatever, he has done almost all of what many thought he would never do, and it required change to do so, which was my original point.
It was an reverse storming. Fans staying the fuck away.
If the stands were full with a fan base full of optimistic Mara fan boys you could guarantee Abrams is our next GM.
Mara is the one who said it: he has not given fans any reason to think he would get anything right. Personally, I think this bunch could screw up a two car funeral, and I will believe they got right when they get it right.
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before or after the petition? Anyone get hurt?
It was an reverse storming. Fans staying the fuck away.
If the stands were full with a fan base full of optimistic Mara fan boys you could guarantee Abrams is our next GM.
LOL.
Let me take you all the way back to 2017. The Giants put together an embarrassing season, which many believe to be "rock bottom". The time had come to completely rebuild the organization.
What happened? John Mara conducted a bullshit "search" for the team's next GM that didn't give serious consideration to anybody that wasn't "family" and ultimately resulted in a former GM (Accorsi) selecting one of his former deputies in a decision that was later revealed to be made partially out of guilt for passing him over in 2007.
Pathetic.
Fast forward two years to 2019. Predictably Dave Gettleman was an unmitigated disaster, yet he was retained while the head coach he helped select was fired.
So here we are two years later in yet another "rock bottom" situation, and as recently as early December it was widely reported that the next Giants GM would either be Kevin Abrams or a candidate aligned with the head coach. Only a string of on field humiliations and press conference gaffes by the coach, along with the anger of fans FINALLY seemed to push the organization in the correct direction.
So yeah, excuse us for having our doubts about it. This process is four years late, I'm not going to give John Mara a pat on the back for finally figuring it the fuck out - assuming he has.
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That it would take time to earn back the fan's trust, which is understandable. I get it that many are still bitter and skeptical. For me I am not being a homer/apologist as I have been accused of many times in the past few weeks --I've just never felt the situation was very difficult to read if you are willing to set the emotions aside.
Let me take you all the way back to 2017. The Giants put together an embarrassing season, which many believe to be "rock bottom". The time had come to completely rebuild the organization.
What happened? John Mara conducted a bullshit "search" for the team's next GM that didn't give serious consideration to anybody that wasn't "family" and ultimately resulted in a former GM (Accorsi) selecting one of his former deputies in a decision that was later revealed to be made partially out of guilt for passing him over in 2007.
Pathetic.
Fast forward two years to 2019. Predictably Dave Gettleman was an unmitigated disaster, yet he was retained while the head coach he helped select was fired.
So here we are two years later in yet another "rock bottom" situation, and as recently as early December it was widely reported that the next Giants GM would either be Kevin Abrams or a candidate aligned with the head coach. Only a string of on field humiliations and press conference gaffes by the coach, along with the anger of fans FINALLY seemed to push the organization in the correct direction.
So yeah, excuse us for having our doubts about it. This process is four years late, I'm not going to give John Mara a pat on the back for finally figuring it the fuck out - assuming he has.
I will say what I usually say - go find another team to root for if you expect the owner to not be the owner. Yep, poor choices upon poor choices. This is the most disappointed I've had over my almost 60 years as a Giants fan, about the same as the 70's.
But hey, this used to be America...
I will say what I usually say - go find another team to root for if you expect the owner to not be the owner. Yep, poor choices upon poor choices. This is the most disappointed I've had over my almost 60 years as a Giants fan, about the same as the 70's.
But hey, this used to be America...
Hey now, say what you want about the Giants but...
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That it would take time to earn back the fan's trust, which is understandable. I get it that many are still bitter and skeptical. For me I am not being a homer/apologist as I have been accused of many times in the past few weeks --I've just never felt the situation was very difficult to read if you are willing to set the emotions aside.
Or you want to desperately hope, dream and believe that after one debacle after another the light bulb has finally gone on and now this time they will get it all right. That is your privilege.
Mara is the one who said it: he has not given fans any reason to think he would get anything right. Personally, I think this bunch could screw up a two car funeral, and I will believe they got right when they get it right.
I explained my position. As I said, I understand the skepticism. But the facts remain that your position has been in retreat by the day.
well what then does that say for you, given that it is your position --not mine-- that is finding itself in daily retreat as the facts come out?
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In comment 15561554 UConn4523 said:
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before or after the petition? Anyone get hurt?
It was an reverse storming. Fans staying the fuck away.
If the stands were full with a fan base full of optimistic Mara fan boys you could guarantee Abrams is our next GM.
LOL.
LOL all you want but we were 1 win over a bottom feeder, 1 less press conf blunder and 2/3 better play calls from a Judge /Abrams led team next year.
I explained my position. As I said, I understand the skepticism. But the facts remain that your position has been in retreat by the day.
Seriously Uber?
First there is a joke in there about your position, but it is rather crude, so I will leave it at that.
Please tell me, what are you hanging your hat on here with regards to other people's postions? And that they are in retreat!
For god sakes, the polyannas have been flat out wrong about everything for a decade. Flat out wrong. You came onto this thread with guns blazing, against anybody who has been critical and remains skeptical.
Let's be clear here. Even those critics and skeptics really really want what Mara is saying to be true. Their position as has been stated many times is, this would be great if true, I will wait to celebrate when I see it. That is not a position in retreat, even if Mara goes all the way, all these critics and skeptics will celebrate it, not retreat.
You whole strawman seems to be that Mara isn't so stubborn after all. Which I think is an absolutely ridiculous strawman given what it took to get him to finally do something real about the problems that all the polyannas denied for a decade. What seems desperate here is this feeble strawman attempt to try and save face for the polyanna crowd. Instead it looks like polyanna foolishness.... Again.