Long time poster and big Ranger fan, though I do not participate in game threads. For my fellow fans, do you believe as currently constructed that the Rangers have a legitimate shot at a cup? I know lots of good teams in conference this year, but do you guys feel confident at this point in a best of 5, 7 series?
I’m starting feel over confident with Goalie. Almost 2014 vibes where Goalie can go on hot streak. Good times either way, and I think our window is just starting to open.
Not a perfect team by any means, but this team could make noise. The Trade Deadline should be very interesting.
Not a perfect team by any means, but this team could make noise. The Trade Deadline should be very interesting.
Cale Makar > Adam Fox
Maybe - maybe not. It is a lot closer than an absolute determination. Both are great. Rangers fans love Fox because of the story from Jericho, NY and him being a fan. I am not questioning your hockey prowess pj.
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Cale Makar > Adam Fox
Maybe - maybe not. It is a lot closer than an absolute determination. Both are great. Rangers fans love Fox because of the story from Jericho, NY and him being a fan. I am not questioning your hockey prowess pj.
Of course it's an opinion, lol. sorry to mean to seem like I am the end all be all source of who is good at hockey. This group of Rangers fans on here knows their shit.
That said, I don't think it's close with Makar and anyone right now. I think Fox is fantastic, a great skater, passer, shooter, smart two-way defenseman who should be a #1 D/ team captain for a decade.
I think Makar is Bobby Orr.
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We have the top goalie in the NHL, the top defenseman in the NHL, excellent special teams, a 1C...
Not a perfect team by any means, but this team could make noise. The Trade Deadline should be very interesting.
Cale Makar > Adam Fox
1 and 1A, Mr. Contrarian
For the most part they play smarter hockey than in recent years. Still prone to some lapses, but overall much more consistent. And Gallant’s handled injury plus Covid absences really well
Igor looks amazing. Last night was like Hank in his prime - seemed like the Leafs may have scored 8 of not for him standing on his head
And that opinion was mocked incessantly on here. None of you believe they were contenders, most thought fringe playoff team.
I do also think they need to make some deadline moves.
I think they need another veteran D, and a top 9 forward - I don't get as hung up on top 6 vs top 9 as some people, but I think they need another F.
See how Georgiev holds up, but maybe a backup G.
that's not a lot to add (for an average deadline)
I think Makar is Bobby Orr.
Makar is on my fantasy team so I hope both have great years. Bobby Orr? That's it? You didn't want to aim higher? Like the greatest defenseman EVER!
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That said, I don't think it's close with Makar and anyone right now. I think Fox is fantastic, a great skater, passer, shooter, smart two-way defenseman who should be a #1 D/ team captain for a decade.
I think Makar is Bobby Orr.
Makar is on my fantasy team so I hope both have great years. Bobby Orr? That's it? You didn't want to aim higher? Like the greatest defenseman EVER!
LOL, I know it seems outlandish, but do you watch Makar skate? He's like McDavid but on D.
I was watching the Av's game last night and in a pre-game interview with Gretzky, MacKinnon compared Makar to Paul Coffey.
So, Orr, Coffey, whatever, I won't bicker, I love watching him play, he's the best skater I have ever seen on the blue line. Ever.
I know those are a lot of superlatives for a 23 year old, but that's my opinion.
There are going to be some legitimate "contenders" gone in the first and second round.
When he won Conn Smythe as you'd drive down Whitney Ave from Hamden into Cheshire there was a sign "Welcome to Cheshire, home of Brian Leetch 1993-1994 Conn Smythe winner" - he was kind of a big deal/legend in my area.
I see a lot of similarities with Fox and Leetch.
They aren't great 5-on-5, and if the goaltending slips even a little bit in the playoffs when you're likely to have fewer PP opportunities, their margin for error is very slim.
Solid defense
Can score early and often
Need to win more faceoffs
There are going to be some legitimate "contenders" gone in the first and second round.
Tomorrow should be an excellent test. The Carolina Rangers.
I think I read somewhere that the Rangers are 17-3 against Eastern Conf. teams.
I’ll be in Raleigh for the game Friday night. Seems like every time I have Canes/Ranger tickets there is a winter storm to contend with.
While I believe the Rangers can be competitive in the playoffs, their defense is not good enough. Miller makes a lot of mental errors, and even Trouba is good for a couple a game. The third pair is a work in progress to say the least and how many stupid penalties does Strome make a game?
And yes PJ, Makar is better than Fox, but He’s not Bobby Orr, at least not yet in my opinion.
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As far as the Rangers being contenders....I don't think they're quite there yet. They just don't generate enough 5v5 offense. You can't rely on the power play so heavily in the playoffs.
Yup -gonba bring in goons, trade away the talent etc etc
MEanwhile Reeves Gallant etc etc Great job
The trade deadline should be as fascinating as any in recent memory now that the virus scam is slowly winding down. Now who told us the virus would simply vanish again?
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Back by several years. Some felt he'd destroyed the team.
Yup -gonba bring in goons, trade away the talent etc etc
MEanwhile Reeves Gallant etc etc Great job
I am told that this is the best the locker room has been since the cup run.
Fox benefits from today's lack of physical play and rules compared to Leetch. It was a much tougher game in Leetch's day, so Leetch had to fight through that and play more physically on defense than Fox has to do
Not too late to consider (…again) switching your allegiance
They've got two wins over TOR, two over TB, one over FL, one over BOS...Metro games will be ultimate test but they're downright crushing the East.
I viewed Leetch that same way - just a smart heady player. Yes, he could skate like the wind, I remember around draft time he was heralded as the best skater this side of Moscow, but I never thought Leetch was Coffey level (or a Makar level skater)
I don't think Leetch had a particularly great shot, I don't think he was terribly physical, but he was good at all those things (shooting, playing physical when he had to), etc.
I see many of those same traits in Fox.
No apologies for any of it, it isn't smoke and mirrors, but an area for improvement.
They should be aggressive at the deadline, IMO.
People get hung up on the fact that he had to moved and dont look at the fact that the return was bad.
He should have been moved at the deadline last year and my bigest question is if Drury would have done sonif he was in charge then.
Shesterkin has played awesome this year. Concerned about Miller's sophomore slump on defense this year. I actually think Nemeth has been a plus on the blue line so far this year. I wish the defense was more physical.
I wish the Rangers were deeper on offense on at least the top 3 lines. Kakko and Laffy need to be more productive IMHO. 4th line is fine.
Having said all that they can make a deep run in the playoffs this year.
As I remember it, Leetch had a good shot until he hurt his shoulder. He couldn't even attempt a slap shot after that.
Agreed. And since it's pretty widely accepted that the Rangers need another top-6 winger, I feel is appropriate to point out that we had that very thing and gave him away for nothing.
Buch is a point per game player who kills penalties and is a steal at $5.8 million AAV.
We'll see how good a job Drury did if the goaltending slips from "historically awesome" to just plain old "great" and there isn't enough scoring depth at 5-on-5 to generate goals in the playoffs.
As far as the Rangers being contenders....I don't think they're quite there yet. They just don't generate enough 5v5 offense. You can't rely on the power play so heavily in the playoffs.
What exactly do you mean by in his own end?
I don't think I've seen a better defenseman with zone exits than Makar. He's not a net front presence, but I'm ok with that. I am not suggesting don't pay attention to defense I think you know me well enough by now and I think Trouba gets a bad rap by NYR fans because he's incredible at net front presence (underrated since it doesn't show up on the stat sheet), etc but the point of the game is to score and I don't remember ever seeing a D with the combined skill, instincts, and intelligence that Makar has.
Maybe this is a Peyton vs Brady debate where at some point Peyton's inflated offense loses out to Brady's all around game and championships (with Peyton being Makar and Brady being Fox), but that's what I see today.
Fox impresses me often, but Makar does things in a game that has been played for over 100 years that I have never seen anyone else do.
I don't think there is a loser in this discussion.
I just don't think he's as good with his stick as Fox is, so he doesn't steal the puck as much. Doesn't block as many shots - yeah, I know, you don't have a Makar on your team to block shots, but Fox does it more than most scoring defensemen do. Fox's positioning on defense is rock solid.
I will freely admit that there is undoubtedly bias to this. Not necessarily because I'm a Ranger fan, but for the simple fact that I watch Fox play all the time and Makar only occasionally.
But Drury got so little for him. I mean it was pathetic. I’m not sure what happened. I guess he way overvalued Blais (who is a fine bottom-six player when healthy) and the only way the Blues would let him go is if Drury overpaid? IDK, but I still can’t make sense of that trade. Just horrible value.
See you all in April and May. Buckle up.
True, but I could see acquiring someone like Hertl or Kessel as masking some of Kakko and Laf’s flaws. Kakko has been fine defensively and he’s very good at puck possession, but he’s just not scoring. I think if you put Hertl and Kessel on the Kreider/Zibanejad line, it would be much better.
And I think Chytil is overrated. Good skater, but myopic vision, okay talent and terrible finisher.
They aren't great 5-on-5, and if the goaltending slips even a little bit in the playoffs when you're likely to have fewer PP opportunities, their margin for error is very slim.
They need to be better 5 v 5. I thought I read somewhere (can't remember exactly) the Rangers were near the bottom of the league in 5 v 5 scoring. That's got to improve if they have big aspirations in the spring. I also think they need some more scoring depth in the forward/C positions. It will be interesting what Drury does at the deadline.
The other reason dealing Buchnevich has been painful is that it opened a hole in the lineup that they've struggled to fill. Kravtsov was supposed to be the guy to fill it.
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In comment 15561764 rnargi said:
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Back by several years. Some felt he'd destroyed the team.
Yup -gonba bring in goons, trade away the talent etc etc
MEanwhile Reeves Gallant etc etc Great job
I am told that this is the best the locker room has been since the cup run.
The Athletic had a good article several weeks back about how valuable Barclay Goodrow is to the team, as he was in Tampa and San Jose, in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet
The other reason dealing Buchnevich has been painful is that it opened a hole in the lineup that they've struggled to fill. Kravtsov was supposed to be the guy to fill it.
Very true
Buch was definitely a cap relief trade, at a minimum. When you extend Kreider like they did it will require a relief response somewhere and Buch was it.
Agree NYR needs to be better 5v5, and hoping a trade for a forward will help with it.
Buch was definitely a cap relief trade, at a minimum. When you extend Kreider like they did it will require a relief response somewhere and Buch was it.
Agree NYR needs to be better 5v5, and hoping a trade for a forward will help with it.
And that’s fine, but he was a RFA who ended up not breaking the bank. Drury didn’t have to re-sign him, but to trade his rights for what he did was just flat-out embarrassing. Buch was anything but a cap dump. Marc Staal was a cap dump.
I am told that this is the best the locker room has been since the cup run.
The Athletic had a good article several weeks back about how valuable Barclay Goodrow is to the team, as he was in Tampa and San Jose, in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet
If the Rangers were paying Goodrow the $925,000 that TB was, it would be incredible value. At $3.6 million, less so.
This has been his best season as a Ranger. He doesn’t do much in the other end, but he brings size and physicality to the blue-line. He got outmuscled last night on one of the goals, but that doesn’t happen often. He’s a borderline shut-down D.
He was basically a PPG player here and it wasn’t just because he was playing with Kreider and Mika. He had firmly established himself as a top-6 player.
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Well, it seems their opinion of Buch diverged from yours. I agree the trade was weak and disappointing, but you could be overrating his value on the open market a bit.
He was basically a PPG player here and it wasn’t just because he was playing with Kreider and Mika. He had firmly established himself as a top-6 player.
Where were the stronger offers?
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In comment 15562136 JonC said:
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Well, it seems their opinion of Buch diverged from yours. I agree the trade was weak and disappointing, but you could be overrating his value on the open market a bit.
He was basically a PPG player here and it wasn’t just because he was playing with Kreider and Mika. He had firmly established himself as a top-6 player.
Where were the stronger offers?
I can’t tell you that, but I’m sorry, I can’t imagine that there weren’t or couldn’t have been better offers.
Yup. Got to think blowing those two top 10 picks had an impact on how Gorton and the scouting was viewed.
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is something I would give the Rangers (as an organization) more slack for if Lias Andersson didn't also happen. Lias is doing nothing in LA (after a great camp that ended with a shoulder injury), but poor asset management at a minimum.
Yup. Got to think blowing those two top 10 picks had an impact on how Gorton and the scouting was viewed.
That’s probably why Gordie Clark was demoted
I've been saying this for months, since the trade was made. They shopped him all summer and this was the best they could get
Not necessarily. I mean according to many, the Giants gave Golladay 18M per when there was little-to-no interest in him. They were essentially bidding against themselves.
It’s not unfathomable to think that a rookie GM didn’t do his due diligence and then took the first offer that was made to him, even if it was a lowball. That’s what experienced GMs do. They smell the new fish and try to take advantage.
I don't think the Rangers correctly valued Buchnevich internally.
Lias may have been overdrafted, but I also think he was an NHLer.
(and both may still be)
but those two picks and the McDonagh/Miller trade were what have made me less enthusiastic about Gorton in MTL.
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They've got more RFA decisions on tap this Summer, here's hoping Drury is prepared to make the right choices. Eg, Kakko, Hajek, and not costing themselves another Buch later.
It's not quite that bad. They're not near the bottom, but they're not near the top either. They're 17th in 5v5 goals scored.
I don't think the Rangers correctly valued Buchnevich internally.
I don't agree. The net-front presence that Kreider has found has been something they've lacked for years.
When he came up, everyone was so focused on what he would bring in terms of speed, and it manifested in the way he was used. He's finally found his groove and put it all together and it's incredibly effective.
Lias may have been overdrafted, but I also think he was an NHLer.
(and both may still be)
but those two picks and the McDonagh/Miller trade were what have made me less enthusiastic about Gorton in MTL.
I remember Lias was considered a very safe pick. He was projected to be a low-ceiling, high-floor player. Not sure where things went wrong with him. Regarding his time with the Rangers, he alluded to some sort of discord. Not sure if it was with teammates or management (Drury again?)
But Suzuki or Necas would’ve been godsend.
They've got more RFA decisions on tap this Summer, here's hoping Drury is prepared to make the right choices. Eg, Kakko, Hajek, and not costing themselves another Buch later.
I’d like to see them trade Chytil. I think he’s very overrated. He’s a good skater who has some skill, but is an awful finisher and his lack of vision and ability to get other players involved make him purely a winger in my eyes.
I could see them trading Chytil and one of Lundkvist, Jones or Robertson for a C or RW.
I’m not sure how they can afford Strome, but I bet they’d like to keep him for a few years since he had such good chemistry with Panarin.
If you step back, they knew when the prior window was closing, did an effective job of stockpiling really good assets and picks, and have themselves set up quite well going forward.
Part of the reason you want to accumulate quantity in addition to quality when you sell of is because it allows you some slack to make a few mistakes or sub-optimal decisions without dooming yourself for years running.
They've done a pretty good job when you look at it the whole. Exciting to have them back on that trajectory and in a place where we as fans can reasonably expect playoff hockey, potentially into May and June...
If you step back, they knew when the prior window was closing, did an effective job of stockpiling really good assets and picks, and have themselves set up quite well going forward.
They have, yes, but I’m gonna say the same thing about the McDonagh/Miller trade that I said about the Buchnevich because that was a trade that could’ve really helped this team in a monumental way. For a top-6 F and a top-pair D, the rebuilding Rangers got a late first rounder, a late second rounder and two crappy prospects (crappy at the time and never amounted to anything). Gotta do better than that. If you’re going to trade valuable present assets to a team gearing up for a Cup run, you should get back young, valuable pieces, not a quantity of crap.
Again, you want to trade McDonagh and Miller? Fine. But get good value. Get quality over quantity. A late second round pick and two shitty prospects aren’t moving the needle.
I’d go with Laf. I don’t even know if Chytil will be in the NHL in 3-5 years.
Lafreniere and it won't be particularly close. Kakko will be a top 6 player, selke award contender every year and a solid contributor, and Chytil will be in someone's top 9, all still in the NHL taking regular shifts.
I'd have more of a comfort zone if Kakko and Laf started playing up to their respective draft statuses.
Regarding the Buch return, Vince Mercogliano dispelled the notion that there were much stronger packages (article I linked below). We tried making him a piece in an Eichel deal, but Buffalo turned it down.
Buchnevich's contract situation may have reduced what other teams were willing to offer in return, particularly those feeling the squeeze of the flat salary cap.
Was Blais and a pick the best deal the Rangers could get? They believe so. It sounds like they preferred getting the player and the second-round pick over hunting for a late first-rounder by itself, if they could have got one. (Which I haven't heard of any team offering.)
All snippets from the linked article regarding that return.
The return from the Buch deal is still yet to 100% be realized in my opinion. We have the space now to go after some missing pieces to solidify the roster for a run as a result of that deal. We can go back and forth about the trade value not being enough, and it was certainly disappointing upon first release, but let's see what we do.
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here you go JonC and all:
Pavel Buchnevich was never going to be a part of the Rangers’ long-term future
By Larry Brooks
January 18, 2022 8:20am Updated
Rangers
While it's easy to question the Rangers' Pavel Buchnevich trade given their need for a top-six wing, the reality is his time on Broadway had to come to an end.
NHLI via Getty Images
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Questions have been raised about my omission of the name, “Pavel Buchnevich,” and of the offseason trade that sent No. 89 to the Blues in last week’s column about the Rangers’ need to add a top-six right wing.
So I will respond here by telling you that given the emergency conditions under which president-general manager Chris Drury will have to manage the cap that is likely to increase from $81.5 million this year to no more than $84.5 million for 2024-25, I never for a moment envisioned Buchnevich as a realistic candidate for the Rangers roster…for this year or beyond.
There are various ways to break down next season’s core shadow roster, but as it shakes out at this point, the Rangers look to have around $11 million to sign Ryan Strome (or an equivalent top-six center to skate with Artemi Panarin), Kaapo Kakko, a backup goaltender, three more forwards and a seventh defenseman.
Someone is going to have to explain how the Rangers would possibly go about this task if the available pool of money were reduced by the $5.8 million annually Buchnevich is going to be drawing from St. Louis over the next four seasons.
Or were you on board with allowing Kakko to go when his contract expires this coming summer or in not having enough pennies to scrape together in order to sign a legitimate second, top-six center?
Yes, it is true that the Blueshirts were always going to have ample space this year to accommodate Buchnevich, coming off the best season of his career, one in which he largely discarded his hangdog image and instead played to the identity of hockey demanded by David Quinn.
Rangers
The Chris Kreider-Mika Zibanejad-Pavel Buchnevich line was a formidable one for the Rangers, but they had little choice but to trade Buchnevich when they did.
NHLI via Getty Images
Drury was always going to be able to keep the Chris Kreider-Mika Zibanejad-Buchnevich unit intact for this go-round, even if the team couldn’t sign the Russian to a long-term extension and instead had kept him on a one-year agreement. That, of course, would have sent Buchnevich into the season as a pending unrestricted free agent.
That is a course Drury never seriously entertained, not even when demand on the trade market never quite equated to Buchnevich’s 2020-21, 20-goal, 28-assist, 48-point output. If you want to believe that the Rangers blew it on Buchnevich by ultimately dealing him to the Blues for a second-rounder and perceived bottom-sixer Sammy Blais, and that is not necessarily an unreasonable opinion to hold, then just about every other team in the league blew it on the 26-year-old by not offering more to Drury.
Some athletes turn the pressure of playing out the final season of a contract into an opportunity. But others shrink under those conditions. There is no way of knowing how exactly Buchnevich would have responded to playing as an impending free agent. No way of knowing whether the frustration that marked his visage through much of the early portion of his stay in New York would have returned if he’d missed too many open nets or if negotiations had gone astray.
Rangers
It’s impossible to say how Pavel Buchnevich would have fared playing in a contract year for a contending Rangers team this season.
AP
(By the way, I recall all of the hand-wringing over the future of the Rangers’ penalty-killing in the immediate wake of the Buchnevich trade. The Rangers woke up Monday morning ranked third in the NHL at 85.6 percent on the PK.)
Yes, I know, the Rangers could have had Buchnevich on a one-year deal and could have been set up to deal him as a rental property at the deadline. Please explain how that would have worked in the midst of a playoff race. Do you honestly believe Drury would really trade his top right wing for draft picks and futures with the Blueshirts in the midst of nailing down their first playoff spot since 2017? Seems impossible. And then what…have him walk for nothing?
If it seems as if the Rangers essentially did that by trading Buchnevich — who has recorded 35 points (14-21) in 34 games — for 10 cents on the dollar, that is probably because Blais hasn’t played since he sustained his season-ending ACL injury at the feet of P.K. Subban on Nov. 14. This is recency bias at its utmost.
Perception might be different if Blais, who played an important early-season role in establishing this team’s identity and had actually moved into the right wing spot on the line with Kreider and Zibanejad three games prior to going down for the count, were on the ice now. But he is absent while Buchnevich’s absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Rangers
Fans’ opinions about the Pavel Buchnevich trade might be different had Sammy Blais not suffered a season-ending injury.
Corey Sipkin
It is unfortunate the Rangers are not going to be in position to reap rewards from Buchnevich’s future in which the organization invested after he joined the club in 2016. Of all the players who seemed to benefit most from Quinn’s tough love, it was Buchnevich. Of all the players who would fill out the Rangers’ top six, there would be few better fits than Buchnevich. I didn’t forget that.
But I also did not forget the math that made it inevitable that Buchnevich would be part of the Rangers’ past rather than the present or the future. Which is why I did not feel the need to mention his name last week.
Déjà vu
Braden Schneider has played a sum of 27:40 NHL minutes over a career of two games, so perhaps it is best not to leap to conclusions. But I jump back almost exactly 11 years, to when Ryan McDonagh made his NHL debut midway through the 2010-11 season, and think now as I did then: The defenseman is not going back to the AHL ever again.
McDonagh was 21 at the time, recalled ahead of the start of an early January 2011 road trip so that the then head coach John Tortorella could get a look at him. Lo and behold, when Michal Rozsival went down with what I believed to be serendipitously timed sore ribs, McDonagh made his first NHL appearance in Dallas on Jan. 7, 2011.
Rangers
Like Ryan McDonagh before him, Braden Schneider (#45) may be in the NHL for good after making his Rangers debut on Thursday in San Jose.
AP
“I honestly can’t tell you that I know more about him now after these couple of practices than I did at the end of camp,” Tortorella said. “His skating is outstanding, I know that.
“We’re trying to win the game. We certainly don’t want to put Ryan in a position that would hinder his development by putting him in spots he can’t handle, so we’ll see how it goes.”
McDonagh played 12:03 partnered with Matt Gilroy in the 3-2 shootout victory decided by Mats Zuccarello. It went well enough that No. 27 soon enough was getting 20:00 a night on his way to becoming the Rangers’ best defenseman for the next seven seasons.
This may not be exactly that. Schneider may not become an equivalent of McDonagh, but it sure feels a lot like 11 years ago.
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In comment 15561742 pjcas18 said:
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Cale Makar > Adam Fox
Maybe - maybe not. It is a lot closer than an absolute determination. Both are great. Rangers fans love Fox because of the story from Jericho, NY and him being a fan. I am not questioning your hockey prowess pj.
Of course it's an opinion, lol. sorry to mean to seem like I am the end all be all source of who is good at hockey. This group of Rangers fans on here knows their shit.
That said, I don't think it's close with Makar and anyone right now. I think Fox is fantastic, a great skater, passer, shooter, smart two-way defenseman who should be a #1 D/ team captain for a decade.
I think Makar is Bobby Orr.
PJ, I don't know if you ever saw Bobby Orr play, but he was (and is) the most dangerous hockey player I have ever seen. I have never been a Bruins fan (Ranger fan forever), but he was so outrageously the best player on the ice every game that it was exciting even when I was rooting against him. I have seen Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull ( who was another wildly dangerous player for other reasons) and all these who have come after. Orr gets my vote for best ever. Gretzky can make an argument, but he was only great going in one direction.
As for Cale Makar, I think you are right that he is superior to Fox, but not by much. He played at UMass for one of my former players with whom I have stayed in touch all these years; so I have followed Makar from the moment he set foot on the UMass campus. He is exceptional, but he is not Bobby Orr.
I was watching a random COL/PHI game earlier this year and I saw Makar go end to end on the PP with a slight mohawk turn there in the middle (Crosby used to do that mohawk but behind the net mostly, not in open ice that I saw) such a subtle move but it froze half the players on the ice, lol. One on 4, and he makes the 4 look foolish (not to mention beating the goalie top shelf short side).
Just from the clips of Orr, this play reminded so much of a Bobby Orr goal.
I see highlight reel stuff from Makar on almost a daily basis that not many, if any, current players can do.
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I saw Bobby Orr play. I can't compare any other hockey player to him. He changed the game of hockey like LT changed the game of football. He played the position in a way people in the sport didn't think it could be played. He revolutionized hockey.
My team will always be the early 70's Rangers and Orr broke my sports heart more than once but he was a joy to watch.
Gretzky is a completely different story. He turned Hockey into a video game almost before there were video games. I wonder how many cups that Edmonton team would have won if they played in Toronto and we never broken up because of lack of money by the owner. 10? 12?
Some guys simply don't have it in them. If he doesn't bring some kind of edge every single night, he is pretty useless for the Rangers.
Fascinating times we are witnessing.
Oof, thanks for reminding me.
Regarding the Fox/Makar debate...Both players are incredible, and are going to be in the Norris trophy conversation against each other for the next decade plus. Solely looking at offensive talent, Makar has the slight edge, simply because he is an elite goal scorer. Defensively, Fox has blocked more than double the amount of shots as Makar, and is the Rangers #1 PK D, logging over 94 minutes on one of the league's best PK's this season, to Makar's 29 minutes. Finally, Makar skates alongside Devon Toews, who is also a dark horse candidate for the Norris conversation. No disrespect to Lindgren, but he is not on Toews' level. If Makar wins the Norris, I will have no argument, just not sure it's as much of a slam dunk as many people believe.
But Drury got so little for him. I mean it was pathetic. I’m not sure what happened. I guess he way overvalued Blais (who is a fine bottom-six player when healthy) and the only way the Blues would let him go is if Drury overpaid? IDK, but I still can’t make sense of that trade. Just horrible value.
Buch's contract was coming up and they wouldn't have been able to afford his new one. That's why they got so little for him because it was Blais contract vs Buch contract. I liked what I saw from Blais and it's a shame he got injured so early in the season.
- 1st order of business: what does 'legitimate contender' signify? If it means will the Rangers be in the SCP? Almost certainly, yes. Will they go deep into the SCP, beyond the first round? Almost certainly, maybe. An indication as to that cunning prognostication may come as soon as tomorrow night, when they play Jints in Carolina's Canes, 1st time this season.
- we will recall that it was the Canes' 3-0 non-competitive wipeout of the Rangers in 2020 coupled with the team's ineptitude vs the Conf' Finals bound Islanders that exposed the Rangers as pretender, not contenders. Ultimately, it lead to DQ being relieved of his job and the hire of GG. It's only slightly extreme to wonder if that same dichotomy still pertains===>> and if the Rangers are outclassed, which is not beyond the realm of possibility (Canes wasted a hot Bruins team Tuesday, 7-1, in Boston), all the talk of the Rangers' weaknesses (badly in need of productive RW, play 5 on 5, leaks on d, line matchups, don't match up well with speed and skill, viz. Avs, Flames, Leafs (??)) will come front and center again.
- Rangers have a top Six that tends to disappear vs the best teams, esp. 5 on 5. SNRoll says Blueshirts have "very good top 2 D pairs". As I've pointed out a few times, KAM is in a deep funk, I don't know where his season is headed; JT is solid with a good partner, but he doesn't cover enough ice fast enough to cover up for K'AM's gaffes, and there have been many in recent games: he's made the other apostrophe look better in hindsight. As noted (before Brooks' column) Schneider looks very comfortable and has a real presence in his own end. I don't know what shakeups Turk might be considering.
- I watched most of TOR-NYR last night as well as Avs at SJ. The 6-3 win vs Leafs was a crazy result if you watched the Leafs for minutes at a time play peek-a-boo in the Rangers' end, endless give-and-goes as they whirled and dished. It looked non-competitive, and I wouldn't have given a Biden's BBB in hell that the Rangers could escape from their 3-1 deficit after 1st P. I still don't know how, except.....>>>
- as guy on the right of the ESPN crew (McHugh, Gretsky, Anson C, and a guy on the right) stated: "I don't know where the Rangers would be without Shesterkin." He was that incredible last night. So SNR is spot on about that, but Igor is brittle.
- that crew had a great one-on-one with Reaves well after Rangers game ended: so much fun, and you can see why Gallant wanted him in the locker room. Did you see mega cap Reaves multiple chest bumping micro cap Igor? Reaves will be in the NHL's game coverage within a year after he hangs up his skates, if not sooner. So TOR-NYR was followed by COL-SJS, a well played, tight game with both keepers standing on their heads. It featured a 1 minute 45 seconds heavyweight bout, gloves immediately off, between McDermond and Deslauriens, who apparently have done this before. The refs just stood by as in times of yore and let them go at it, actually one of the linesmen was giving PBY commentary, until they had exhausted themselves and sanity was restored. Aside from ENG, the only goal of the game scored by a COL d-man (and their d-men lead the league in goals scored, I think), not Makar, but Bernard. And that leads to the last, Markar and Fox.
- like arniefez, my deepest core Rangers' bonding was, like the bonding of the Parcells' years (depth not decade), the early 70s, season tix for two seasons, saw a lot of Orr--but don't forget that it was the Blackhawks that knocked them out twice--and there is no other Orr than Bobby: as he whirled and wound himself up in his own end and began to pick up momentum behind his net to exit the zone, he was unstoppable as he glided past opponents as if standing still. Breathtaking. Makar has some of that, and if anything he has more power/explosive push-off than Orr did, but everything Orr did was smooth and executed so skillfully and craftily, Makar maybe a bit more helter skelter. I think Makar and Fox are very different players, so the comparisons are both easy and difficult, Manning-Brady is not a bad analog, except in lieu of Manning I'd say Mahomes because both he and Makar are that electric.
- now, back to your regularly scheduled programing. btw, Primes' 'Being the Ricardos' we found quite good, interesting.
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It wasn’t so much that they traded Buch. I understood why. They wanted to give consistent top-6 minutes to Laf and Kakko. I get that.
But Drury got so little for him. I mean it was pathetic. I’m not sure what happened. I guess he way overvalued Blais (who is a fine bottom-six player when healthy) and the only way the Blues would let him go is if Drury overpaid? IDK, but I still can’t make sense of that trade. Just horrible value.
Buch's contract was coming up and they wouldn't have been able to afford his new one. That's why they got so little for him because it was Blais contract vs Buch contract. I liked what I saw from Blais and it's a shame he got injured so early in the season.
Huh? That doesn’t make any sense. They’re not at all equal players and they never were.
Brassard sucked, but that was no fault of the Senators. But that’s the type of deal that Drury should’ve sought.
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I think NYR should have extended Buchnevich over Kreider.
I don't think the Rangers correctly valued Buchnevich internally.
I don't agree. The net-front presence that Kreider has found has been something they've lacked for years.
When he came up, everyone was so focused on what he would bring in terms of speed, and it manifested in the way he was used. He's finally found his groove and put it all together and it's incredibly effective.
I think you're right for the near-term, but I think the Rangers Cup contention years are 2-5 years from now when Kreider will be on the decline.
Brassard sucked, but that was no fault of the Senators. But that’s the type of deal that Drury should’ve sought.
Brassard didn't suck at least not with the Rangers. He wasn't great, but he didn't get the nickname Big Game Brass for nothing. At the time of the trade most people thought Brassard was a better player than Zibanejad.
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The Brassard/Zibanejad trade. Brassard was a productive, proven top-6 C and the Rangers wanted to shed his salary and get younger. Zibanejad was an up-and-coming talented C who was inexpensive.
Brassard sucked, but that was no fault of the Senators. But that’s the type of deal that Drury should’ve sought.
Brassard didn't suck at least not with the Rangers. He wasn't great, but he didn't get the nickname Big Game Brass for nothing. At the time of the trade most people thought Brassard was a better player than Zibanejad.
.......
That's my point
As for the OP, I tend to have lower expectations for the postseason with this group despite being ecstatic about the season. Like Colhow said, the top 6 for this team has a history of disappearing in big games and against physical opponents. I can’t say I feel much better about that despite Kreider’s newfound dirty work goal scoring prowess. However, you always have a chance when you have one of the sport’s 2-3 best goaltenders. But they would really have to limit mistakes if they wanted Shesty to carry them and there’s too much youth and inexperience to expect that.
I’m still not blaming Drury for Kravy pulling a bitch fit. Had he just put his head down and done what was asked of him, he might be solving some of the issues they have at RW now. Maybe I’m delirious, but I still holding onto hope that he comes to his senses.
Don’t care how much talent that guy has….he’s a loser at heart
the answer is clearly the Rangers.
You don't get nothing back from the #7 and #9 pick in the draft in back to back years and blame the player's immaturity.
this falls equally on the Rangers player development and player evaluation.
at least IMO.
Here is a pre-draft write-up for Kravtsov. Most were very similar to this one.
We just witnessed a player (another Russian player) with probably the same scouting report flame out famously -- Nail Yakupov. And Yakupov definitely did not lack talent.
Is an offensive dynamo with tremendous skill with the puck. Is also an extremely good skater with a very projectable (6-2) frame. Can be a game-breaking, offensive force when he is on the ice. His play when he does not have the puck still leaves something to be desired, so he needs to improve his defensive game in order to maximize output in North America. Must also get stronger.
Long Range Potential: Ultra-skilled, talented winger with major upside.
If your assessments and evaluations confirm this and you take the player you HAVE to have a plan for correcting the behavior and getting the player comfortable and unlocking that potential.
Some people may take a tough guy approach "playing time is earned" etc. but then don't take player who need nurturing.
However, at this point, how could any of the players ever trust this kid once they are in the thick of it in a playoff race? They can’t. He’s proven he isn’t willing to sacrifice and he wants it handed to him. Good riddance
Alexander Semin was supremely skilled as well….
However, at this point, how could any of the players ever trust this kid once they are in the thick of it in a playoff race? They can’t. He’s proven he isn’t willing to sacrifice and he wants it handed to him. Good riddance
Alexander Semin was supremely skilled as well….
that's actually a really good point. I never think of it from the teammate's perspective.
My knee jerk reaction to your comment is the players would welcome him with open arms. Players recognize talent in each other, even the lazy players, but I really don't know how they'd react. Maybe like you say they won't trust him.
Brassard sucked, but that was no fault of the Senators. But that’s the type of deal that Drury should’ve sought.
What part of "they shopped Buch all summer and this was the best deal they had" arent you understanding? No matter how you want to wish it so, the Rangers didnt have a better offer or they would have taken it
They didnt count on Kravtsov being a baby and not grabbing the opening in the top 6, then crying about being called on his behavior
Something changed under current GM, coach.