I'd prefer a tackle at 5 and then look at QB options at 7. No idea what to think with Willis specifically, but I do want to come out of this draft with a QB so hopefully we identify someone we really like.
I've read that front offices really value scouting QB prospects up close and personal multiple times throughout a season to get a read on them. Would not be surprised if the incoming FO punts on QB in this draft, and commits a lot of resources to scouting the 2023 class. I don't want them rushing this decision and doing silly things like overweighting postseason bowls. Its the most important personnel decision the team will make for years.
I've read that front offices really value scouting QB prospects up close and personal multiple times throughout a season to get a read on them. Would not be surprised if the incoming FO punts on QB in this draft, and commits a lot of resources to scouting the 2023 class. I don't want them rushing this decision and doing silly things like overweighting postseason bowls. Its the most important personnel decision the team will make for years.
Not to mention all 3 organizations that our final GM candidates come from have top young QB's on their roster or one (49ers) taken top 5 last year, so they probably didn't heavily invest in time on them this year.
to look for "sure things" rather than "high risk-high reward" players, and for players who might start sooner rather than later. Whether or not this would be a good drafting strategy I have no idea.
I also suspect that the Giants don't have a lot of scouts with a consistent record of drafting good college players.
For me, this season will be one where we either keep digging the hole that we're in, or whether we find a ladder (or do I mean "leader"?) Hmm.
by me in ATL. Great athlete that took his team to state finals (losing), and everybody here pulling for him and his NFL future.
With that said, his game doesn't compute to a #5 overall pick. Athletically and physically he checks boxes but he simply has not displayed certain QB standards and the proper acumen that is going to be required at the NFL level. And at some point you have to see that his game does indeed translate to success at the next level.
I do realize that not all QBs fit in the same mold but Willis is indeed going to be a project for some NFL team. There are plenty of desperate GMs out there that pull up QBs in the draft almost every year, but imv a project like Willis is a high Rd 2 pick at best.
bitched for a new regime and to join the 21st century. I'm not saying Id feel super confident but maybe we also try to reserve judgement. Link - ( New Window )
coming out as well.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
Not nearly as much as accuracy. Also Willis is literally a one read, max 2, QB right now. He needs to learn progressions and how to run a pro offense.
This is exactly what I mean. He's one read and then run as far as I can see. And that is the best way for him to play where he is as he's the best athlete in most of the games he plays - hes not playing SEC teams each week. and he's great when scrambling. I don't think that will translate well at the next level. You don't see the kinds of throws that Josh Allen could make in college.
Sure Willis has athletic talent and strong arm but he will not be able to handle the speed of the NFL. He is a one read QB right now.
He would be a fine pick at number 36 as a project QB needing time to becoming ready to play.
Honestly, if Davis Mills stayed at Stanford one more year he would be the best QB in this upcoming draft.
From making any comments on what I think we should do with QB until we have a new HC in place and I know who's developing the kid.
With that being said I think Willis needs a redshirt year, which given Jones is on year 4 of his contract, we can do. In a situation where he can sit and has the right coach to develop his skill set, Willis has the upside worthy of a top 10 pick.
But Willis has a second-third round decision making process.
He's a project more than a prospect, IMV. But IF a coach/staff can get him right with the mental side, this guy is a potential superstar.
I'd roll the dice later in the first or the second.
I agree with this. Color me intrigued with the talent though. Not comparing Willis to either one but similar worries are what led teams and draft analysts to miss on Allen and Mahomes. Huge gamble but some team(s) is going to think the juice is worth the squeeze.
in the months leading up to the draft.
And so it begins.
I'm okay with taking Willis in the first round and sitting him behind Jones next season, or the first half of next season, or behind Marcus Mariota or whatever.
More than that, I'm confident our next front office will be on top of this.
coming out as well.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
You never know that with anyone. That's the art of the evaluation.
But the science of a Josh Allen - his size, speed, arm, mobility - screamed big upside.
If Willis was taller and overall bigger, he's a top five talent for sure. But he's got some serious science - arm, speed, quickness.
So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell or, more recently, Dwayne Haskins. Allen also did not blossom into the QB he has become until he put in extensive offeseason work with Brian Daboll and the Bills invested in Diggs at WR after beefing up OL. Willis is the most boom or bust QB in this draft IMHO. Either way he is going to need to redshirt 2022 season. Someone is going to look smart because he puts in the effort that Allen did (which I have not seen at the college level) or he is going to flame out in 2 years.
Turning to the rest of the QB's I see things as follows:
Kenny Pickett - The only one who I see as a potential Week 1 starter, but I have serious questions about his upside. For four years he posted Daniel Jones numbers in ACC. Was he just a product of having more experience at a time when opponents who were first year starters did not have that due to COVID?
Matt Corral - The only other name I see as starting at some point in 2022, but not necessarily Week 1. I also think he will need the right OC because his college game is like Josh Allen's, but in the NFL that will get him killed. Will also need some transition time because his O was less pro style than Pickett or Ridder and need to see more going through progressions which can also derail a career.
Desmond Ridder - Like Willis he is not someone you want playing at all in 2022. That being said, with his development at Cincy I think he has a higher floor than Willis in that I do not see him completely washing out before his rookie contract is over. Reminds me of Joe Flacco coming out of college.
But Willis has a second-third round decision making process.
He's a project more than a prospect, IMV. But IF a coach/staff can get him right with the mental side, this guy is a potential superstar.
I'd roll the dice later in the first or the second.
I agree with this. Color me intrigued with the talent though. Not comparing Willis to either one but similar worries are what led teams and draft analysts to miss on Allen and Mahomes. Huge gamble but some team(s) is going to think the juice is worth the squeeze.
Please don't use "juice is worth the squeeze", dahlin'.
Adam Schefter said the other day on his podcast that he thinks Willis will be the first QB off the board and go much higher than outside perception thinks.
way. Fatanstic potential but much too raw to take in the top 10. As someone else said, he needs a lot of time to develop, including becoming a lot better going through progressions. He had some pretty bad games this past season. Classic "high ceiling" "low floor" prospect.
Adam Schefter said the other day on his podcast that he thinks Willis will be the first QB off the board and go much higher than outside perception thinks.
That's good for the Giants. The new GM will have some trading partners that are excited to move up then...
way. Fatanstic potential but much too raw to take in the top 10. As someone else said, he needs a lot of time to develop, including becoming a lot better going through progressions. He had some pretty bad games this past season. Classic "high ceiling" "low floor" prospect.
Probably a ton of quotes like this on Josh Allen on BBI his draft season...
Do Not pass up on Willis!!!!!! He’s the prototype for todays NFL, QBs with plus athleticism and a canon of an arm. In todays NFL QBs HAVE to be able to throw on run, off platform and from different angles. Willis can do all those things at an elite level. I would actually be surprised if his there at 5 after the combine.
Willis Comp:
Wilson (Willis has a bigger arm)
Mahomes
Murray
Mayfield
Watson
Fields (Willis has a bigger arm)
Lance (Willis has a bigger arm)
Prescott ( Willis has bigger arm)
That's the luxury of having two picks: you can take a flyer on a guy like Willis.
At worst, he is a dynamic back-up that you have under control for five years.
I also think Danny would benefit from the competition. One of the underlying issues with his holding the ball too long is that he knows he is the starter no matter what. Bring in Willis and that might change.
Do Not pass up on Willis!!!!!! He’s the prototype for todays NFL, QBs with plus athleticism and a canon of an arm. In todays NFL QBs HAVE to be able to throw on run, off platform and from different angles. Willis can do all those things at an elite level. I would actually be surprised if his there at 5 after the combine.
Willis Comp:
Wilson (Willis has a bigger arm)
Mahomes
Murray
Mayfield
Watson
Fields (Willis has a bigger arm)
Lance (Willis has a bigger arm)
Prescott ( Willis has bigger arm)
I don't see him anywhere near the players you listed. Jordan Love looks like a closer comparison.
Senior Bowl and combine will be the most telling about Strong. In college he looked like a statue in the pocket. That won't fly in the NFL. Need to see if it was by design or he just is not light enough on his feet.
Doubt he'd be there in rd 2, but maybe trade back in rd 1 and take him there. I could live with that, not at 5 or 7, but we would need an OC who knows how to build a scheme around his talents.
RE: RE: RE: Decision making was a knock on Josh Allen
You never know that with anyone. That's the art of the evaluation.
But the science of a Josh Allen - his size, speed, arm, mobility - screamed big upside.
If Willis was taller and overall bigger, he's a top five talent for sure. But he's got some serious science - arm, speed, quickness.
So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell or, more recently, Dwayne Haskins. Allen also did not blossom into the QB he has become until he put in extensive offeseason work with Brian Daboll and the Bills invested in Diggs at WR after beefing up OL. Willis is the most boom or bust QB in this draft IMHO. Either way he is going to need to redshirt 2022 season. Someone is going to look smart because he puts in the effort that Allen did (which I have not seen at the college level) or he is going to flame out in 2 years.
Turning to the rest of the QB's I see things as follows:
Kenny Pickett - The only one who I see as a potential Week 1 starter, but I have serious questions about his upside. For four years he posted Daniel Jones numbers in ACC. Was he just a product of having more experience at a time when opponents who were first year starters did not have that due to COVID?
Matt Corral - The only other name I see as starting at some point in 2022, but not necessarily Week 1. I also think he will need the right OC because his college game is like Josh Allen's, but in the NFL that will get him killed. Will also need some transition time because his O was less pro style than Pickett or Ridder and need to see more going through progressions which can also derail a career.
Desmond Ridder - Like Willis he is not someone you want playing at all in 2022. That being said, with his development at Cincy I think he has a higher floor than Willis in that I do not see him completely washing out before his rookie contract is over. Reminds me of Joe Flacco coming out of college.
Right. There are examples on both ends of the outcome spectrum with these prospects with multiple plus tools. It's a very hard task finding a QB from the college pool.
You and I have our differences on Pickett. The next piece of data I need with him is the hand size. That is a legit concern. To me, Pickett looks like the most natural pocket QB in this draft.
I know Terps is big on Corral and I respect his view. But I'm with you with concerns about his body type and is playing style. And how that could be a problem at the next level. But I really like his arm, his moxie, and he seems to be a natural leader. All positive traits.
Ridder is another wildcard. I'm hot and cold with him. Excellent career, prototypical size, and better than average movement and athleticism. I was hoping he would help his stock vs Alabama. But his performance was kind of flat. I've watched a lot of video and saw some mechanical issues I didn't really notice. But I'm looking forward to seeing him test against his peers in the pre-draft run-up.
That's the luxury of having two picks: you can take a flyer on a guy like Willis.
At worst, he is a dynamic back-up that you have under control for five years.
I also think Danny would benefit from the competition. One of the underlying issues with his holding the ball too long is that he knows he is the starter no matter what. Bring in Willis and that might change.
Take a flyer with a top 7 pick when our roster is as barren as it is? Terrible idea.
He can go anywhere from #3 to the end of the first round.
Even if we trade back to the teens, no guarantee the QB you want will still be there.
QBs tend to rise, especially QBs with elite traits.
That is why I think we are better off signing someone like Mariota and then either trading up from 36 (if we want 5th year option) or standing pat (if we prefer to keep draft capital) and if one we like is there you make move at that point (see Denver and Drew Lock or Raiders and Derek Carr)
Any team throwing him out there as a rookie might be asking to shorten the kid's career.
But Willis has a second-third round decision making process.
He's a project more than a prospect, IMV. But IF a coach/staff can get him right with the mental side, this guy is a potential superstar.
I'd roll the dice later in the first or the second.
Not to mention all 3 organizations that our final GM candidates come from have top young QB's on their roster or one (49ers) taken top 5 last year, so they probably didn't heavily invest in time on them this year.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
I also suspect that the Giants don't have a lot of scouts with a consistent record of drafting good college players.
For me, this season will be one where we either keep digging the hole that we're in, or whether we find a ladder (or do I mean "leader"?) Hmm.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
Not nearly as much as accuracy. Also Willis is literally a one read, max 2, QB right now. He needs to learn progressions and how to run a pro offense.
With that said, his game doesn't compute to a #5 overall pick. Athletically and physically he checks boxes but he simply has not displayed certain QB standards and the proper acumen that is going to be required at the NFL level. And at some point you have to see that his game does indeed translate to success at the next level.
I do realize that not all QBs fit in the same mold but Willis is indeed going to be a project for some NFL team. There are plenty of desperate GMs out there that pull up QBs in the draft almost every year, but imv a project like Willis is a high Rd 2 pick at best.
hope I am wrong...
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
You never know that with anyone. That's the art of the evaluation.
But the science of a Josh Allen - his size, speed, arm, mobility - screamed big upside.
If Willis was taller and overall bigger, he's a top five talent for sure. But he's got some serious science - arm, speed, quickness.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
coming out as well.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
Not nearly as much as accuracy. Also Willis is literally a one read, max 2, QB right now. He needs to learn progressions and how to run a pro offense.
This is exactly what I mean. He's one read and then run as far as I can see. And that is the best way for him to play where he is as he's the best athlete in most of the games he plays - hes not playing SEC teams each week. and he's great when scrambling. I don't think that will translate well at the next level. You don't see the kinds of throws that Josh Allen could make in college.
He would be a fine pick at number 36 as a project QB needing time to becoming ready to play.
Honestly, if Davis Mills stayed at Stanford one more year he would be the best QB in this upcoming draft.
With that being said I think Willis needs a redshirt year, which given Jones is on year 4 of his contract, we can do. In a situation where he can sit and has the right coach to develop his skill set, Willis has the upside worthy of a top 10 pick.
But Willis has a second-third round decision making process.
He's a project more than a prospect, IMV. But IF a coach/staff can get him right with the mental side, this guy is a potential superstar.
I'd roll the dice later in the first or the second.
I agree with this. Color me intrigued with the talent though. Not comparing Willis to either one but similar worries are what led teams and draft analysts to miss on Allen and Mahomes. Huge gamble but some team(s) is going to think the juice is worth the squeeze.
And so it begins.
I'm okay with taking Willis in the first round and sitting him behind Jones next season, or the first half of next season, or behind Marcus Mariota or whatever.
More than that, I'm confident our next front office will be on top of this.
Quote:
coming out as well.
But really, how can you know if a player will grow into that with coaching/experience, or if he won't?
Feels like being a venture capitalist.
You never know that with anyone. That's the art of the evaluation.
But the science of a Josh Allen - his size, speed, arm, mobility - screamed big upside.
If Willis was taller and overall bigger, he's a top five talent for sure. But he's got some serious science - arm, speed, quickness.
So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell or, more recently, Dwayne Haskins. Allen also did not blossom into the QB he has become until he put in extensive offeseason work with Brian Daboll and the Bills invested in Diggs at WR after beefing up OL. Willis is the most boom or bust QB in this draft IMHO. Either way he is going to need to redshirt 2022 season. Someone is going to look smart because he puts in the effort that Allen did (which I have not seen at the college level) or he is going to flame out in 2 years.
Turning to the rest of the QB's I see things as follows:
Kenny Pickett - The only one who I see as a potential Week 1 starter, but I have serious questions about his upside. For four years he posted Daniel Jones numbers in ACC. Was he just a product of having more experience at a time when opponents who were first year starters did not have that due to COVID?
Matt Corral - The only other name I see as starting at some point in 2022, but not necessarily Week 1. I also think he will need the right OC because his college game is like Josh Allen's, but in the NFL that will get him killed. Will also need some transition time because his O was less pro style than Pickett or Ridder and need to see more going through progressions which can also derail a career.
Desmond Ridder - Like Willis he is not someone you want playing at all in 2022. That being said, with his development at Cincy I think he has a higher floor than Willis in that I do not see him completely washing out before his rookie contract is over. Reminds me of Joe Flacco coming out of college.
Quote:
physically. Unquestionably to me.
But Willis has a second-third round decision making process.
He's a project more than a prospect, IMV. But IF a coach/staff can get him right with the mental side, this guy is a potential superstar.
I'd roll the dice later in the first or the second.
I agree with this. Color me intrigued with the talent though. Not comparing Willis to either one but similar worries are what led teams and draft analysts to miss on Allen and Mahomes. Huge gamble but some team(s) is going to think the juice is worth the squeeze.
Please don't use "juice is worth the squeeze", dahlin'.
Adam Schefter said the other day on his podcast that he thinks Willis will be the first QB off the board and go much higher than outside perception thinks.
Quote:
But if he's there at #36, it's intriguing.
Adam Schefter said the other day on his podcast that he thinks Willis will be the first QB off the board and go much higher than outside perception thinks.
That's good for the Giants. The new GM will have some trading partners that are excited to move up then...
Probably a ton of quotes like this on Josh Allen on BBI his draft season...
Willis Comp:
Wilson (Willis has a bigger arm)
Mahomes
Murray
Mayfield
Watson
Fields (Willis has a bigger arm)
Lance (Willis has a bigger arm)
Prescott ( Willis has bigger arm)
At worst, he is a dynamic back-up that you have under control for five years.
I also think Danny would benefit from the competition. One of the underlying issues with his holding the ball too long is that he knows he is the starter no matter what. Bring in Willis and that might change.
Willis Comp:
Wilson (Willis has a bigger arm)
Mahomes
Murray
Mayfield
Watson
Fields (Willis has a bigger arm)
Lance (Willis has a bigger arm)
Prescott ( Willis has bigger arm)
I don't see him anywhere near the players you listed. Jordan Love looks like a closer comparison.
But he has good athletic traits.
But in game he often looked lost.
The combine will determine a lot with this guy.
But #5 sounds rich.
Senior Bowl and combine will be the most telling about Strong. In college he looked like a statue in the pocket. That won't fly in the NFL. Need to see if it was by design or he just is not light enough on his feet.
Doubt he'd be there in rd 2, but maybe trade back in rd 1 and take him there. I could live with that, not at 5 or 7, but we would need an OC who knows how to build a scheme around his talents.
You never know that with anyone. That's the art of the evaluation.
But the science of a Josh Allen - his size, speed, arm, mobility - screamed big upside.
If Willis was taller and overall bigger, he's a top five talent for sure. But he's got some serious science - arm, speed, quickness.
So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell or, more recently, Dwayne Haskins. Allen also did not blossom into the QB he has become until he put in extensive offeseason work with Brian Daboll and the Bills invested in Diggs at WR after beefing up OL. Willis is the most boom or bust QB in this draft IMHO. Either way he is going to need to redshirt 2022 season. Someone is going to look smart because he puts in the effort that Allen did (which I have not seen at the college level) or he is going to flame out in 2 years.
Turning to the rest of the QB's I see things as follows:
Kenny Pickett - The only one who I see as a potential Week 1 starter, but I have serious questions about his upside. For four years he posted Daniel Jones numbers in ACC. Was he just a product of having more experience at a time when opponents who were first year starters did not have that due to COVID?
Matt Corral - The only other name I see as starting at some point in 2022, but not necessarily Week 1. I also think he will need the right OC because his college game is like Josh Allen's, but in the NFL that will get him killed. Will also need some transition time because his O was less pro style than Pickett or Ridder and need to see more going through progressions which can also derail a career.
Desmond Ridder - Like Willis he is not someone you want playing at all in 2022. That being said, with his development at Cincy I think he has a higher floor than Willis in that I do not see him completely washing out before his rookie contract is over. Reminds me of Joe Flacco coming out of college.
Right. There are examples on both ends of the outcome spectrum with these prospects with multiple plus tools. It's a very hard task finding a QB from the college pool.
You and I have our differences on Pickett. The next piece of data I need with him is the hand size. That is a legit concern. To me, Pickett looks like the most natural pocket QB in this draft.
I know Terps is big on Corral and I respect his view. But I'm with you with concerns about his body type and is playing style. And how that could be a problem at the next level. But I really like his arm, his moxie, and he seems to be a natural leader. All positive traits.
Ridder is another wildcard. I'm hot and cold with him. Excellent career, prototypical size, and better than average movement and athleticism. I was hoping he would help his stock vs Alabama. But his performance was kind of flat. I've watched a lot of video and saw some mechanical issues I didn't really notice. But I'm looking forward to seeing him test against his peers in the pre-draft run-up.
Even if we trade back to the teens, no guarantee the QB you want will still be there.
QBs tend to rise, especially QBs with elite traits.
At worst, he is a dynamic back-up that you have under control for five years.
I also think Danny would benefit from the competition. One of the underlying issues with his holding the ball too long is that he knows he is the starter no matter what. Bring in Willis and that might change.
Take a flyer with a top 7 pick when our roster is as barren as it is? Terrible idea.
Some of throws he made this year at Liberty are really insane. He reminds me of Brett Favre.
Even if we trade back to the teens, no guarantee the QB you want will still be there.
QBs tend to rise, especially QBs with elite traits.
That is why I think we are better off signing someone like Mariota and then either trading up from 36 (if we want 5th year option) or standing pat (if we prefer to keep draft capital) and if one we like is there you make move at that point (see Denver and Drew Lock or Raiders and Derek Carr)