Along with the return of Saquon Barkley, Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney were supposed to ignite the team's offense this year.
Saquon was a major disappointment and no longer looks like the same player. He's been well discussed on BBI.
But it is absolutely astounding how unproductive Golladay and Toney were.
Golladay (4-years, $72 million) started 14 games and missed three with a knee injury. He finished the season with just 37 catches for 521 yards and no touchdowns.
Toney was our first-round pick. His rookie season was virtually wiped out due to multiple health issues, including two bouts with COVID and hamstring, ankle, thumb, quad, oblique, and shoulder injuries. Toney did play in 10 games, with four starts, but he finished the year with just 39 catches for 420 yards and no touchdowns.
Even if you get some come-back to normal for Golladay and Toney, neither are long-term fits based on their profiles, injury history, cap hit with Golladay especially and new regime coming in with new schemes likely.
WR, aside from QB, RB, TE becomes a need sooner than later.
It's why it is going to be fascinating to see the rebuild vision and strategy take place. If the new GM/HC don't take right approach, we are very very screwed.
I still don't understand why Gettleman didn't sense he was on the hot seat. He was ok with accepting a weakened draft last year for the potential of a stronger draft this year. To me that was another example of how much of an ass clown he is. He never stopped to think if the trade didn't work, he'd never make it to this year's draft.
You can also say that he did what was right for the organization and not just his career. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but if he turned it down everyone would be complaining he was trying to save his job more than help the team.
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this year, or was this Gettleman's last failure in the draft for us?
I still don't understand why Gettleman didn't sense he was on the hot seat. He was ok with accepting a weakened draft last year for the potential of a stronger draft this year. To me that was another example of how much of an ass clown he is. He never stopped to think if the trade didn't work, he'd never make it to this year's draft.
You can also say that he did what was right for the organization and not just his career. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but if he turned it down everyone would be complaining he was trying to save his job more than help the team.
That's a fair point. In this case however had he been more in self preservation mode, we would have gotten a legit 1st rounder. A bird in the hand as they say.
With Jones: 61.3% of catch rate
With Glennon/Fromm: 35% of catch rate
For a guy who's not a short yardage, YAC kind of player, 61.3 is pretty solid. With a decent QB, and an offensive system taking advantage of his style, aka downfield posts, back shoulder throws, and so on, he'll thrive. He was used like shit.
I think Toney is an enigma. Super talented. Stay on the field, and we'll see. With an intelligent and modern coordinator, Toney will kill defenses with his moves. Screens, shovel passes, these YAC based types of plays and formations that didn't utilize him properly or when to as for that matter, at all.
Maybe we could have done better than Toney, but we should add in our trade down return to the equation.
Golladay is the more concerning of the 2. He was available, but added little, while costing a lot. Hopefully, the situation starts looking better, and he puts in some effort. Looked like he mostly just went through the motions on a shitty team.
Our OL sucked
Our QB sucked
The first one will change. You have to think our 2nd has to get better with the first being changed. And maybe the QB play will be better with the first two changing.
The injuries are what piss me off. If these 2 can stay healthy, they are more than capable of being two better than average players.
I’m not giving up on these 2. I think injuries and the shit around them affected them more than what we believe.
I agree. Golladay didn't just forget how to play. He went from Stafford to Jones/Glennon/Fromm, lol. The injuries are annoying, no way around that. Have to hope for better fortune in that regard next season.
With Jones, and stuck in a shitty offense, his number stacked up. Without him, they plummeted and that's what's so discerning. He produced in DET with Blough too.
Glennon being awful at his job on top of a horrible system Garrett laid in place, you got the results from the second half of the season.
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this was Slayton's fall from grace. He's dropped 12 passes in the past two seasons and seen his TDs fall from 8 to 3 to 2.
I said after his rookie year that I wasn't sold on Slayton because his hands aren't particularly good and man did people get pissed about that. But they're not. Useful depth receiver, but if he's one of your starters, then you're weak at the position.
Yes, many here WILDLY overrated what was a promising rookie year, but he has regressed since, and it all wasn't poor QB play.
Galloway regardless of what his contract looks like on paper, can be cut easily after this coming season with a large cap savings. So at this point he really has only a one year deal. He's probably going to be a waste of money but the Giants hired an expensive contested catch/back shoulder receiver for a QB who is afraid to throw contested balls when he gets the time to, which isn't often, because of potential INTs and hasn't shown capable of throwing back shoulder.
100%. It is totally on brand for the Giants to pass on a guy for character concerns but then to go ahead and draft Toney? It goes hand-in-hand with DG's "hurt players get hurt" claim and then drafting one injury-prone player and overpaying another.
One caveat is that when he played he was pretty dominant, at least there was that to cling to.
It's up there with trading JPP as the most absurd thing they did, IMO.
And to make matters worse, Sean Spencer was in the fucking building and we STILL couldn't make the right call on Parsons.
Did anyone other than Thomas get better in 2021?
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I will never understand how they passed on Parsons, according to countless whispers, for character concerns only to draft a kid who went driving around with a rifle in his backseat because he was beefing with townies.
It's up there with trading JPP as the most absurd thing they did, IMO.
And to make matters worse, Sean Spencer was in the fucking building and we STILL couldn't make the right call on Parsons.
And this after the scouts were warning everyone about DeAndre Baker and then he did what he did.
The incompetence is unbelievable.
Did anyone other than Thomas get better in 2021?
I agree and that’s why I wanted Judge canned, but I do think McKinney and Love improved over the course of the season.
golladay was a proven commodity. Injuries aside hes a very good player. He missed a few games Toney is also a very good player and that was evident when he touched the field. Its very hard to give it your all and be fully committed on a team that lacks an offense. Week2 we saw golladay yelling at his OC. he could very easily have mentally checked out being disgruntled with his coach and the system he was asked to run. its hard to go deep when you lack an offensive line and cant have longer developing routes. Lets wait and see with a new OC maybe some talent to add to the line at picks 5 and 7 and see what we become. Theres a reason a core group of BBI was banging the drum for slater all offseason. Draft day 2021 comes and we select another toy. Lets hope this new regime has the brains and skill to fix the line and take advantage of the talent we do we have
Loved his TD pass too
Toney needs to replace Shepard in the slot, then just get him the ball where he can make some plays. Simple as long as he shows up.
It isn't shocking how unproductive this offense is. It was built to fail in every possible scenario.
If the Giants take Evan Neal at #5 and David Ojabo at #7 and both guys have really good rookie seasons, not Parsons or Slater good but almost. How much better would the same 2021 roster be if the Giants had a stud RT and a stud Edge rusher? I'm talking about a RT you could run behind on 3rd and 2 and get first downs and an edge rusher that couldn't easily be blocked one and one and could team with Leonard Williams to provide a pass rush other teams would have to game plan for and free up secondary guys to get pressure.
The Giants have holes and the elephant in the room is they don't have a top 10 QB but there are some good players on the roster - not enough - but some that under performed in 2021 because of the players around them and poor coaching.
It will improve some, but the OLine is far from the only deficiency with this offense. Getting better line play won't keep Toney healthy, it won't help Golladay give a shit, and it won't help the QB process information faster.
The whole offense regressed under Judge. It's really damning. I am still not convinced that Jones is some horrible QB. The OL and scheme were absolutely terrible.
He is exciting at times and hoping for the best, but I am skeptical he amounts to anything.
As for Golladay, cannot think of too many Giants I have disliked more. Just does not give a !@#$.
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I will never understand how they passed on Parsons, according to countless whispers, for character concerns only to draft a kid who went driving around with a rifle in his backseat because he was beefing with townies.
100%. It is totally on brand for the Giants to pass on a guy for character concerns but then to go ahead and draft Toney? It goes hand-in-hand with DG's "hurt players get hurt" claim and then drafting one injury-prone player and overpaying another.
+2. I admit that I wanted them to pass on Parsons, especially after they got the trade offer from the Bears. But why pass on him to draft someone like Toney with his off the field issues?
KG was not good. I get the sense he was playing hurt all year. We overpaid but I think we can get a return out of the investment. The O and the 2nd half of the season QBs were just the worst.
Slayton is done. I believe he will not be a Giant moving forward. He was a nice story as a 5th rounder but never progressed. I saw a guy that didnt compete for the ball as a rookie but was successful. He just never improved and when expectations went up his warts really showed. Hes a good 5th or 6th WR nothing more.
Bottom line is we need to invest in the WR department. there should be a WR drafted every year. Its a position that usually requires 3 on the field at 1 time. We barely were able to field 2 let alone 3. There is good data out there that a dominate WR opens up the entire O. We dont have that and havent since OBJ. Im glad OBJ is gone but we need to replace him.
What is this even based on? Seems like an overly dramatic way to say they under-performed last year. How do you gauge whether or not you want X player to be in a foxhole with you - playing through injuries? Pretty sure both did that.
Engram gets launched (in the same game Dallas is bragging about taking out Jones)and Toney goes and throws a punch at the guy who pushes Engram. Seems like he has teammates backs. Gates did it against the Rams and he is a fan favorite. What’s the difference except Toney’s appearance?
I think Stafford's play on the Rams just reinforces that he was a bit underrated and Golladay was overrated. Hated the signing at the time.
I think Stafford's play on the Rams just reinforces that he was a bit underrated and Golladay was overrated. Hated the signing at the time.
Then comparing Stafford 2021 season to Goff’s 2018 season you would have to indicate that they are identically comparable QBs.
Definitely no his best play, but I think one of his top 5 plays was a bullet pass he threw that went incomplete. That sums him up. That said, I also don't understand why he was never used on KR or PR, which to me, would have been an easy way to get the ball in his hands and make plays.
As for Golladay, he's a real conundrum. Did we not target him because he was never open, or did he need to be targeted regardless and make him win balls, which is a reason we got him? To be sure, our receivers as a group were at least in the bottom 5 of the league in terms of creating separation, Golladay included. But, in the NFL you also can't wait for a WR to be wide open.
And Golladay still did jack-all.
Definitely no his best play, but I think one of his top 5 plays was a bullet pass he threw that went incomplete. That sums him up. That said, I also don't understand why he was never used on KR or PR, which to me, would have been an easy way to get the ball in his hands and make plays.
As for Golladay, he's a real conundrum. Did we not target him because he was never open, or did he need to be targeted regardless and make him win balls, which is a reason we got him? To be sure, our receivers as a group were at least in the bottom 5 of the league in terms of creating separation, Golladay included. But, in the NFL you also can't wait for a WR to be wide open.
He followed up that game by having 3 catches on 3 targets for nearly 40 yards against the Rams before leaving the game with an injury. He was on his way to another big game there. Anyone who can't see his talent on the screen I have to question your eyesight. Were the injuries frustrating? Sure. But the talent is there to be a very exciting player moving forward.
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actually had 2 more catches than Golladay. What annoys the crap out of me is this notion that Toney was great when he played. Um, no he wasn't. He had one great game that got us excited. The rest of the time, even with the ball in his hands, he was underwhelming. Part of that is the dreadful offensive scheme we had. Part is poor execution. But, part was also he just didn't deliver.
Definitely no his best play, but I think one of his top 5 plays was a bullet pass he threw that went incomplete. That sums him up. That said, I also don't understand why he was never used on KR or PR, which to me, would have been an easy way to get the ball in his hands and make plays.
As for Golladay, he's a real conundrum. Did we not target him because he was never open, or did he need to be targeted regardless and make him win balls, which is a reason we got him? To be sure, our receivers as a group were at least in the bottom 5 of the league in terms of creating separation, Golladay included. But, in the NFL you also can't wait for a WR to be wide open.
He followed up that game by having 3 catches on 3 targets for nearly 40 yards against the Rams before leaving the game with an injury. He was on his way to another big game there. Anyone who can't see his talent on the screen I have to question your eyesight. Were the injuries frustrating? Sure. But the talent is there to be a very exciting player moving forward.
Totally agree. It seems like half of Toney's problems were self-inflicted.
He's a potential gamebreaker if he does some things differently off the field and gets his act together.
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In comment 15562331 j_rud said:
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I will never understand how they passed on Parsons, according to countless whispers, for character concerns only to draft a kid who went driving around with a rifle in his backseat because he was beefing with townies.
It's up there with trading JPP as the most absurd thing they did, IMO.
And to make matters worse, Sean Spencer was in the fucking building and we STILL couldn't make the right call on Parsons.
And this after the scouts were warning everyone about DeAndre Baker and then he did what he did.
The incompetence is unbelievable.
Seems like after the Baker ordeals they were not about to risk a similar mistake if they were concerned there were character issues with Parsons. Kind of a fool me once type of thing.
No doubt the kid had a tremendous rookie season but time will tell if they were right or wrong on his character. For me, knowing they had his PSU coach on staff and had him off their board entirely, I was ok with passing on him if the coach didn’t go to bat for him. Which it seems he didn’t.
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I just don't buy this argument. We see time and again how good/great receivers on other teams get theirs no matter who the QB is. Needing to be "thrown open" is just blame shift for a receiver who can't get separation through speed, size, or route running ability. When you look at the other receivers on this team, there is no excuse for Golladay not being able to earn the bulk of the targets.
I think Stafford's play on the Rams just reinforces that he was a bit underrated and Golladay was overrated. Hated the signing at the time.
Then comparing Stafford 2021 season to Goff’s 2018 season you would have to indicate that they are identically comparable QBs.
No you don't, just looking at their stats is lazy. Gurley was infinitely better than the rotation they've had this year, had what, almost 20 TD's that season? Goff should get credit for what he did but he had it easy. And then he regressed.
The Rams didn't trade for some regular season wins, they went after Stafford because they are trying to win a title. There's a pretty big difference between the two players.