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The unbelievably bad season for Golladay and Toney

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/20/2022 10:15 am
Along with the return of Saquon Barkley, Kenny Golladay and Kadarius Toney were supposed to ignite the team's offense this year.

Saquon was a major disappointment and no longer looks like the same player. He's been well discussed on BBI.

But it is absolutely astounding how unproductive Golladay and Toney were.

Golladay (4-years, $72 million) started 14 games and missed three with a knee injury. He finished the season with just 37 catches for 521 yards and no touchdowns.

Toney was our first-round pick. His rookie season was virtually wiped out due to multiple health issues, including two bouts with COVID and hamstring, ankle, thumb, quad, oblique, and shoulder injuries. Toney did play in 10 games, with four starts, but he finished the year with just 39 catches for 420 yards and no touchdowns.

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That's why Garrett  
mittenedman : 1/20/2022 10:19 am : link
and Judge are gone. It's unbelievable.
...  
Mdgiantsfan : 1/20/2022 10:19 am : link
it really is amazing how inept the offense and those guys in particular were. I'm hoping that next season Saquon is much more like himself. Also hoping that a new system to include a improved offensive line will bring about much better results on that side of the ball.
I have big hopes for Toney  
Festina Lente : 1/20/2022 10:20 am : link
He looked electric when he actually got a chance to get the ball. Almost young OBJ-esque in his movement after the catch. I think with a functional offense he would be a real weapon. How he stays healthy and we have an OC that actually knows how to play progressive football.
You can't fix their shortcomings either  
JonC : 1/20/2022 10:20 am : link
ten cent heads. Hated both acquisitions ...
Toney  
DCPollaro : 1/20/2022 10:20 am : link
is promoting his new album coming out soon
hopefully he is working on his other craft
RE: I have big hopes for Toney  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/20/2022 10:22 am : link
In comment 15561994 Festina Lente said:
Quote:
He looked electric when he actually got a chance to get the ball. Almost young OBJ-esque in his movement after the catch. I think with a functional offense he would be a real weapon. How he stays healthy and we have an OC that actually knows how to play progressive football.


Yup. But if you look back on his game-by-game productivity, aside from a few plays here and there, everyone seems to be basing their hopes on one game - the Week 5 performance against the Cowboys.

I had to go game by game to see why he was out or not getting a lot of snaps each week. Look at the ridiculous list of different types of injuries he had in ONE season.
Not sure what Jason  
BigBlueJ : 1/20/2022 10:23 am : link
was suppose to do with a poor oline, and very poor play from DJ, Glennon and Froom. WRs are also reliant on the ball being thrown to them. I think Toney will turn out to be a big bust and Golladay a middling veteran due to injuries and already not being very fast or dynamic. Just a continuation of horrific roster building by this organization.
Not looking very good  
UberAlias : 1/20/2022 10:23 am : link
for either, that's for sure.
RE: You can't fix their shortcomings either  
JonC : 1/20/2022 10:23 am : link
In comment 15561996 JonC said:
Quote:
ten cent heads. Hated both acquisitions ...


And what appear to be penchants for nagging injuries killing availability.
Golladay is pretty concerning because  
jvm52106 : 1/20/2022 10:23 am : link
of that contract. I think he will be better next year assuming we have a stable second receiver- we really never had a second main guy to help take the pressure off when he did play.

Toney you can only hope recovers and plays better next year. I have less hope for him because his whole year was drama- the mini camp issue, camp issue, then being sick twice and getting hurt every time he played. Not sure he can be counted on.

Receiver and TE are huge needs for this team.
Agreed it was bad  
Jerry in_DC : 1/20/2022 10:23 am : link
But I am still somewhat hopeful on both guys. It's not great, but I'd say receiver is actually one of our strongest position groups.

Losing Shep hurts so we need some depth, but in terms of talent, WR is merely "below average" whereas most of our other groups are "near the worst in the league"
Don't like either player  
Rick in Dallas : 1/20/2022 10:25 am : link
Toney is a gadget WR who has no resemblance to Deebo Samuels as I have seen on this site in other threads. Is he 100% committed to football? Injury prone?
As far as Golliday I don't like WR's who get no separation at all.Gettlemen bid against himself when he signed KG to this albatross contract. Shameful!!!
and who the hell shows up for practice and says there  
gtt350 : 1/20/2022 10:25 am : link
shoes dont fit.
I know it's really hard giving Barkley the benefit of  
barens : 1/20/2022 10:26 am : link
the doubt, I have a hard time with it to, but wasn't it kind of expected for him to not perform up to expectation? If anything, I have higher expectations for him in 2022.
Andrew  
AcidTest : 1/20/2022 10:28 am : link
Thomas had more TD receptions than Toney and Golladay combined. That more than anything else proves how little production we got from Toney and Golladay.

I didn't want to draft Toney because of his injury history and off the field issues. I wanted Paye or maybe Darrisaw. Toney looks like a more electric version of Ike Hilliard, who also had injury problems.

Golladay was just a massive overpay. Nobody else offered him anywhere what we did. DG tried to trade for him during the 2020 season IIRC. I'd cut him if at all possible, especially since absent a major turnaround, I don't see him on the team after 2022.
The offense was broken in every way possible  
UberAlias : 1/20/2022 10:29 am : link
Was just an utter disaster from talent, to injuries, to coaching and play calling. We can only hope that some of that will clear up if provided better coaching and upgrades to the Oline. Not saying I'm expecting that, but that's what we should be hoping for.
Players with more TDs than Toney and KG  
Jolly Blue Giant : 1/20/2022 10:30 am : link
Combined.
Link - ( New Window )
Look  
AcidTest : 1/20/2022 10:31 am : link
at our receivers. Shepard is gone, and how can anybody have any confidence in Toney, Golladay, or Slayton. Slayton had one of the highest drop percentages of any WR in the league last season. Engram is also likely gone.

Like WR, OL, and DB, WR is yet another position group on which we spent a ton of resources with very few results.
Wasn't it Dave Gettleman who said:  
David B. : 1/20/2022 10:32 am : link
"Hurt guys get hurt."

And then he brought in a shitload of hurt guys.


I thought Toney mostly looked great when he played, but he was hurt too often. Is he the Ferrari that's always in the shop? Hopefully it won't be a yearly trend.


Golliday was also hurt a lot, which has been his issue historically. But unlike Toney, he didn't look like much when he was on the field. I don't know how much of that was the failed offensive design, the failed pass protection, the back up QBs. He appears impossible to cut at the moment because of his contract, so hopefully a revamped offense will get more out of him. IF he can stay on the field.
I was thinking about that Aikman quote the other day  
Mike in Long Beach : 1/20/2022 10:32 am : link
regarding CeeDee Lamb, and thought it applied in a broader sense to Toney, too. I get it's too early to put Toney in Lamb's league, but you saw what he can be in that first loss to Dallas. Sometimes these coaches get so wrapped up in outscheminng their opponent that they lose sight of how simple the game can be. If you have Toney getting a 10-15 yard cushion, just give him the ball and let him make a play. At worst, you're looking at the equivalent of a 2-4 yard run.

Same thing goes for Golladay when he's 1-on-1 down the field. And yes, there were a lot of times when the QB didn't have time to get the ball down the field, but there were plenty of times that he did too. And he didn't.

Having talented guys at the skill positions is supposed to make your job as a coach easier. The Giants' staff refused to take that opportunity.
iirc, KG's guaranteed dollars are paid up in 2022  
JonC : 1/20/2022 10:32 am : link
so he needs to put forth a season worth keeping him in 2023.
RE: and who the hell shows up for practice and says there  
Blue21 : 1/20/2022 10:33 am : link
In comment 15562015 gtt350 said:
Quote:
shoes dont fit.


As Jon C said 10 cent head. I grimmaced at the pick when they announced it. But figured "hey what do I know"?
Toney  
larryinnewhaven : 1/20/2022 10:35 am : link
has Jonh Ross written all over him. Flashes but never on the field. I've never seen a guy miss time with five different injuries before. What a Joka
Loved Toney before draft  
averagejoe : 1/20/2022 10:36 am : link
but didn't think Giants would even consider him. He can play football but was seldom used and usually not available. Every week he has an issue and you have to wonder if he is really committed to football after his big pay day .

He is the first guy new HC needs to talk to .
exacerbating  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/20/2022 10:37 am : link
this was Slayton's fall from grace. He's dropped 12 passes in the past two seasons and seen his TDs fall from 8 to 3 to 2.
Both had terribly disappointing seasons  
10thAve : 1/20/2022 10:40 am : link
and hopefully bounce back next year with an internal “change of scenery”, i.e. new GM, new HC and staff.

I’m not ready to write Toney off after one season, and I think he can be a plus contributor to an offense run by a modern staff who knows how to use him.

The other thing that can’t be discounted is that when these guys did play, look at the inept offense and shitty QBs they had to play with. I don’t think any WRs would put up good numbers with those QBs.
I like Golladay as a player  
MyNameIsMyName : 1/20/2022 10:40 am : link
He was obviously overpaid. We don’t have a QB that can maximize his strengths though.
Provided  
Biteymax22 : 1/20/2022 10:41 am : link
We used other picks for OL and bring in OL help in FA, this is why I wouldn't freak if we used a first on a WR if we felt he was a blue chip prospect.

Golladay and Toney gave us nothing to think they'll be reliable, Shep may not be back and Slayton took a leap backwards. We (still) need a few WRs to have an adequate group...
Its hard to don’ttrust  
5BowlsSoon : 1/20/2022 10:42 am : link
DG and his staff selected. Both draft picks and free agents. The blind leading the blind.
Toney would've been alot easier to take  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/20/2022 10:42 am : link
if he wasn't a first round pick. The fact that he was drafted that high makes the pick about 100x worse. The fact that he was rarely ever healthy makes it 100x worse than that. I have very little hope for him going forward. He just doesn't seem like a guy who is fully committed to football.

Golladay, I'm alittle more hopeful for. He was terrible last year, but he just led all WR's in TD's just 2 years ago...with the LIONS. I think his struggles were more due to the terrible QB/OL play and terrible coaching. While I feel like Toney's struggles were alot more due to his own shortcomings.
When you can write basically the same  
Dankbeerman : 1/20/2022 10:46 am : link
post about the RBs, TEs, OL and QBs too, every single Offensive position group was underwhelming and undermaned.

With the obvious push by the front office last year on the WR position though I do feel it was our bigest failure.
RE: exacerbating  
Greg from LI : 1/20/2022 10:46 am : link
In comment 15562065 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
this was Slayton's fall from grace. He's dropped 12 passes in the past two seasons and seen his TDs fall from 8 to 3 to 2.


I said after his rookie year that I wasn't sold on Slayton because his hands aren't particularly good and man did people get pissed about that. But they're not. Useful depth receiver, but if he's one of your starters, then you're weak at the position.
I think  
Fast Eddie : 1/20/2022 10:48 am : link
A lot of these problems disappear with a competent OC and a commitment to spending draft capital on the O line.
Golladay is a solid #2 being paid like  
Section331 : 1/20/2022 10:48 am : link
one of the best WR's in the league. He was productive when he had Marvin Jones on the other side to draw some attention away, but to think he would be able to replicate that production without a viable 2nd WR was foolish. Not as foolish as ignoring the Lion's coaches who basically called him a quitter.

Toney will be what he has always been, often injured and not entirely focused on football. I don't begrudge him trying for a recording career, but he needs to understand that he would never have that chance if it wasn't for his football skill.

Both players are exact examples of the type of player DG said we should avoid - "hurt players get hurt". Why would we think DG would listen to anyone else's advice when he wouldn't even listen to his own?
Everyone on this roster under performed!  
ZogZerg : 1/20/2022 11:02 am : link
Not sure why it took so long to can Judge.

Golladay has to be the biggest flop of a FA signing in Giants history. After all the F-ing wining and dining and meetings and culture and he absolutely sucked!

Toney looks like another shitty draft pick that will probably never contribute much to this team. We all saw this the first day he showed up when he was running around barefoot because of some stupid sneaker/cleat issue. This guy has "high maintenance" written all over him and it is highly doubtful he is productive.
Nicks  
Les in TO : 1/20/2022 11:04 am : link
And Cruz they are not.
RE: That's why Garrett  
GeofromNJ : 1/20/2022 11:10 am : link
In comment 15561992 mittenedman said:
Quote:
and Judge are gone. It's unbelievable.

Why blame Judge and Garrett? They didn't draft Barkley and Toney or sign Golladay. That waste of GM did.
No chance to have chemistry with Jones  
GeoMan999 : 1/20/2022 11:16 am : link
The whole season I kept thinking all I want is DJ getting 3-4 weeks in a row with Galladay, Toney, and Barkley, and it never happened. It looked like it was going to happen and then Jones got hurt.

It sounds like excuse making for Jones, but as a fan it was the most frustrating year I have ever experienced. We led the league with injuries, but it was even worse than that because these three were all out during the entire preseason. You can’t make this stuff up.
Player evaluation is not just about assessing athletic ability  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2022 11:30 am : link
and saying he can make plays. A team self-admittedly desperate for playmakers this past off season paid an awfully high price to bring these two guys onto the roster despite some known concerns.

Zero touchdowns is actually quite a dubious feat...I will give you that. But this NY Giant offense has been anything but a plug-n-play type of environment of the past few years despite our hopes and expectations praying for it...
Was Toney simply stricken with incredibly bad luck  
Poktown Pete : 1/20/2022 11:31 am : link
this year, or was this Gettleman's last failure in the draft for us?

I still don't understand why Gettleman didn't sense he was on the hot seat. He was ok with accepting a weakened draft last year for the potential of a stronger draft this year. To me that was another example of how much of an ass clown he is. He never stopped to think if the trade didn't work, he'd never make it to this year's draft.
First,  
Joe Beckwith : 1/20/2022 11:33 am : link
Do the league rules for uniforms allow for them to be made from bubble wrap?
Second, our S and C and nutrition coach’s should have been fired also e cause our players were regularly out muscled.
Third, KG was a health issue coming in and significantly over-courted, plus seems to be a business decision making player.
I too hope new coaching and schemes can make both players play closer to their maximum potential .
Toney did have a few plays where he looked  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/20/2022 11:35 am : link
really good

Loved his TD pass too
My only positive about both of them is  
GNewGiants : 1/20/2022 11:36 am : link
Our coaching sucked
Our OL sucked
Our QB sucked

The first one will change. You have to think our 2nd has to get better with the first being changed. And maybe the QB play will be better with the first two changing.

The injuries are what piss me off. If these 2 can stay healthy, they are more than capable of being two better than average players.

I’m not giving up on these 2. I think injuries and the shit around them affected them more than what we believe.
It only took Gettleman 2 yrs to destroy the team but…  
morrison40 : 1/20/2022 11:38 am : link
Mara & Co gave him 2 more to finish the job.
The offense  
Sammo85 : 1/20/2022 11:40 am : link
needs a complete rebuild. We all know it. Just a question if it takes 2 years or possibly three (with defense needing some care as well).

Even if you get some come-back to normal for Golladay and Toney, neither are long-term fits based on their profiles, injury history, cap hit with Golladay especially and new regime coming in with new schemes likely.

WR, aside from QB, RB, TE becomes a need sooner than later.

It's why it is going to be fascinating to see the rebuild vision and strategy take place. If the new GM/HC don't take right approach, we are very very screwed.
RE: Was Toney simply stricken with incredibly bad luck  
Chocco : 1/20/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15562211 Poktown Pete said:
Quote:
this year, or was this Gettleman's last failure in the draft for us?

I still don't understand why Gettleman didn't sense he was on the hot seat. He was ok with accepting a weakened draft last year for the potential of a stronger draft this year. To me that was another example of how much of an ass clown he is. He never stopped to think if the trade didn't work, he'd never make it to this year's draft.

You can also say that he did what was right for the organization and not just his career. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but if he turned it down everyone would be complaining he was trying to save his job more than help the team.
RE: RE: Was Toney simply stricken with incredibly bad luck  
Poktown Pete : 1/20/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15562240 Chocco said:
Quote:
In comment 15562211 Poktown Pete said:


Quote:


this year, or was this Gettleman's last failure in the draft for us?

I still don't understand why Gettleman didn't sense he was on the hot seat. He was ok with accepting a weakened draft last year for the potential of a stronger draft this year. To me that was another example of how much of an ass clown he is. He never stopped to think if the trade didn't work, he'd never make it to this year's draft.


You can also say that he did what was right for the organization and not just his career. I'm not a Gettleman fan, but if he turned it down everyone would be complaining he was trying to save his job more than help the team.

That's a fair point. In this case however had he been more in self preservation mode, we would have gotten a legit 1st rounder. A bird in the hand as they say.
KT showed he is dynamic.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/20/2022 11:45 am : link
He just needs to stay on the fucking field.
Catch percentage  
Toth029 : 1/20/2022 12:02 pm : link
Key stat to look at for Kenny and his evident surroundings, on top of dealing with the hamstring and also hating Garrett's anemic offensive philosophy. I eliminated the Cowboys game in DAL since Jones barely played and he only played a half himself.

With Jones: 61.3% of catch rate

With Glennon/Fromm: 35% of catch rate

For a guy who's not a short yardage, YAC kind of player, 61.3 is pretty solid. With a decent QB, and an offensive system taking advantage of his style, aka downfield posts, back shoulder throws, and so on, he'll thrive. He was used like shit.

I think Toney is an enigma. Super talented. Stay on the field, and we'll see. With an intelligent and modern coordinator, Toney will kill defenses with his moves. Screens, shovel passes, these YAC based types of plays and formations that didn't utilize him properly or when to as for that matter, at all.
don't we get to add  
fkap : 1/20/2022 12:02 pm : link
the #7 pick to whatever we get out of Toney?

Maybe we could have done better than Toney, but we should add in our trade down return to the equation.

Golladay is the more concerning of the 2. He was available, but added little, while costing a lot. Hopefully, the situation starts looking better, and he puts in some effort. Looked like he mostly just went through the motions on a shitty team.
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