I can't wait to see a functional TE play. Been awhile. All the good offenses in NFL feature TE sets in pass and run. It's a reason why our offense has been so terrible and you can't run multiple out of the sets/personnel we had. Everything was limited.
but he was so misused the past 2 years it's insane considering how few receiving options this team had. If you look at his 3 year per game averages vs. the last 2 years there is zero surprise that everyone associated with the offensive coaching staff has gotten fired and more than one in embarrassing fashion.
and no it wasn't an OBJ thing - engram's numbers were the best when OBJ was out.
he was personally responsible for 6 of Daniel Jones' 10 interceptions in 2020 through his inability to secure passes.
This has been disproven repeatedly, but like a zombie, it refuses to die. I'll be happy for Engram to be gone so we can find out who will be the next BBI whipping boy.
A very flawed player, but one who was horribly misused after Shurmur left. His one skill was getting open down the seam, but Garrett rarely used him that way. 8 yds per target under Shurmur, under 6 with Garrett.
became the head coach. A lot of what the Giants did used two TE's and required the TE's to be able to at least functionally be able to block. EE was horrible as a blocker.
Even worse though is EE's pur lack of football instincts. He truly is an athlete playing TE not a FOOTBALL player who is athletic. His lack of feel for the game leads to routes that have no chance of succeeding because he couldn't recognize the dead area in a zone or when to break off a bit as the QB was in trouble to get himself open.
Then when you add in his very poor play to play hands- meaning one play would be fine and then another seemingly less difficult catch ends up dropped and even worse dropped up into the air to be picked off.
His selection was another one of Reese's athlete picks but with the Giants needing to become a new team - move from ELI, get some new OLine blood etc, we continued to try and make that one last run. EE would have been ok, maybe even more than OK if we had a 2 way TE on the roster already. Instead we had next to nothing at TE and EE was looked upon as another weapon , ala OBJ. It didn't pan out at all.
He is the classic "scholarship" guy we kept hearing about and yet somehow he stayed for 5 years!
became the head coach. A lot of what the Giants did used two TE's and required the TE's to be able to at least functionally be able to block. EE was horrible as a blocker.
Even worse though is EE's pur lack of football instincts. He truly is an athlete playing TE not a FOOTBALL player who is athletic. His lack of feel for the game leads to routes that have no chance of succeeding because he couldn't recognize the dead area in a zone or when to break off a bit as the QB was in trouble to get himself open.
Then when you add in his very poor play to play hands- meaning one play would be fine and then another seemingly less difficult catch ends up dropped and even worse dropped up into the air to be picked off.
His selection was another one of Reese's athlete picks but with the Giants needing to become a new team - move from ELI, get some new OLine blood etc, we continued to try and make that one last run. EE would have been ok, maybe even more than OK if we had a 2 way TE on the roster already. Instead we had next to nothing at TE and EE was looked upon as another weapon , ala OBJ. It didn't pan out at all.
He is the classic "scholarship" guy we kept hearing about and yet somehow he stayed for 5 years!
Any stats on the turnovers he caused via tip ball interceptions and fumbles?
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
Only what I've seen from my own eyes.
The take-away here is this: Engram was drafted as undersized, receiving-type tight end who we knew would be a subpar blocker due to his size. But he was supposed to compensate for that by becoming an elite-level receiving tight end.
The result? While he has flashed a few huge plays in his first five years, mostly he has proven to be an injury-prone player who disappears for long stretches of games and within games, drops way too many passes, and can't be relied on as a consistent target.
Thrive in a better offense. Could see him in GB, Chargers, Arizona or even KC as a #2 to Kelce.
I don’t think he’s a guy who an NFL offense should ever run through but if he’s the 4th option and draws great matchups, he can definitely be a useful piece in a good offense.
Speaking of TE, how are the Giants going to replace him? Looking at FA, there are no clear upgrades available for cheap. (Maybe a flyer on OJ Howard?)
Besides top 2 options in draft (McBride or Wydermyer) I like Ruckert from OSU, Cade Otton, and Charlie Kolar. All 3 should be available with the late 3rd or 4th round pick
for any number of reasons. He'd be much better served in an offense where he isn't one of the primary targets, maybe the 2nd or 3rd TE who can be the 2nd slot in spread formations.
He'll land somewhere, but can you imagine the glares he would get from Aaron Rodgers after he drops his 3rd pass of the game?
So the Giants used a 1st rd for Brandon Myers 2013 production
Give him a prove-it contract to play a specific role in a different offense. If he puts up 40 ypg and 4-5 TDs playing the whole season, that would show that the Giants misused him.
Any stats on the turnovers he caused via tip ball interceptions and fumbles?
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
That is a highly subjective assessment. For every play where the ball was right in his hands and he just didn't catch it, there are also several where the throw was poorly placed and the tip was an attempt to pull in a pass behind him or as he is getting hit because the throw was late.
His drop stats tell you all you need to know about how poor his hands are.
even given the pedestrian play of Engram, he likely qualifies as one of the more successful first round picks over the past five years given slot and production. That is how low the bar is for this franchise.
Any stats on the turnovers he caused via tip ball interceptions and fumbles?
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
Don't even need stats. Any Giants fan that is honest with themselves, will say Engram, when asked who they think tipped more passes than anyone else in recent history.
Flowers, Apple, Engram, Barkley, Jones. WOOF! You couldn’t get less production from 5 consecutive first round picks if you tried
Putting Jones aside because QBs are so tough to hit on...
The startling thing is 3 of the first 4 were pure talent evaluation misses... and the 1 that wasn't (Barkley) was a need misalignment further compounded by what seems like career altering injuries..
Let's not forget Barkley was drafted as a guy who should have a HOF career, then produced at a HOF level for 2 years..
Correcting the drops were a point of emphasis in the off season
You don't want Pro Bowlers on your team!!?
I can't wait to see a functional TE play. Been awhile. All the good offenses in NFL feature TE sets in pass and run. It's a reason why our offense has been so terrible and you can't run multiple out of the sets/personnel we had. Everything was limited.
and no it wasn't an OBJ thing - engram's numbers were the best when OBJ was out.
This has been disproven repeatedly, but like a zombie, it refuses to die. I'll be happy for Engram to be gone so we can find out who will be the next BBI whipping boy.
A very flawed player, but one who was horribly misused after Shurmur left. His one skill was getting open down the seam, but Garrett rarely used him that way. 8 yds per target under Shurmur, under 6 with Garrett.
Quote:
I can't wait until he is no longer a Giant.
You don't want Pro Bowlers on your team!!?
You can't be serious with that comment.
Oof
Pro Football Reference NYG Drafts - ( New Window )
45 catches, 524 yards, 4.3 TDs
Boss (3 yrs), Ballard, Bennett, Myers, Donnell, Tye (2 yrs)
And most of those guys were more complete TEs with much less capital invested in them..
Even worse though is EE's pur lack of football instincts. He truly is an athlete playing TE not a FOOTBALL player who is athletic. His lack of feel for the game leads to routes that have no chance of succeeding because he couldn't recognize the dead area in a zone or when to break off a bit as the QB was in trouble to get himself open.
Then when you add in his very poor play to play hands- meaning one play would be fine and then another seemingly less difficult catch ends up dropped and even worse dropped up into the air to be picked off.
His selection was another one of Reese's athlete picks but with the Giants needing to become a new team - move from ELI, get some new OLine blood etc, we continued to try and make that one last run. EE would have been ok, maybe even more than OK if we had a 2 way TE on the roster already. Instead we had next to nothing at TE and EE was looked upon as another weapon , ala OBJ. It didn't pan out at all.
He is the classic "scholarship" guy we kept hearing about and yet somehow he stayed for 5 years!
or Butch Reed, Jerry Reed any of the Reeds.
Even worse though is EE's pur lack of football instincts. He truly is an athlete playing TE not a FOOTBALL player who is athletic. His lack of feel for the game leads to routes that have no chance of succeeding because he couldn't recognize the dead area in a zone or when to break off a bit as the QB was in trouble to get himself open.
Then when you add in his very poor play to play hands- meaning one play would be fine and then another seemingly less difficult catch ends up dropped and even worse dropped up into the air to be picked off.
His selection was another one of Reese's athlete picks but with the Giants needing to become a new team - move from ELI, get some new OLine blood etc, we continued to try and make that one last run. EE would have been ok, maybe even more than OK if we had a 2 way TE on the roster already. Instead we had next to nothing at TE and EE was looked upon as another weapon , ala OBJ. It didn't pan out at all.
He is the classic "scholarship" guy we kept hearing about and yet somehow he stayed for 5 years!
Sorry- meant OC not HC.
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
He isn't a football player.
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
Only what I've seen from my own eyes.
The take-away here is this: Engram was drafted as undersized, receiving-type tight end who we knew would be a subpar blocker due to his size. But he was supposed to compensate for that by becoming an elite-level receiving tight end.
The result? While he has flashed a few huge plays in his first five years, mostly he has proven to be an injury-prone player who disappears for long stretches of games and within games, drops way too many passes, and can't be relied on as a consistent target.
It's been five years. The jury is in.
I don’t think he’s a guy who an NFL offense should ever run through but if he’s the 4th option and draws great matchups, he can definitely be a useful piece in a good offense.
Speaking of TE, how are the Giants going to replace him? Looking at FA, there are no clear upgrades available for cheap. (Maybe a flyer on OJ Howard?)
Besides top 2 options in draft (McBride or Wydermyer) I like Ruckert from OSU, Cade Otton, and Charlie Kolar. All 3 should be available with the late 3rd or 4th round pick
He'll land somewhere, but can you imagine the glares he would get from Aaron Rodgers after he drops his 3rd pass of the game?
Excellent use of resources!!!
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
That is a highly subjective assessment. For every play where the ball was right in his hands and he just didn't catch it, there are also several where the throw was poorly placed and the tip was an attempt to pull in a pass behind him or as he is getting hit because the throw was late.
His drop stats tell you all you need to know about how poor his hands are.
I can say that about the entire roster. I just want to move on from this nightmare.
Being facetious...kinda
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
Here's a 12 minute video of his miscues in 2020. Keep a barf bag handy if you choose to watch it.
Link - ( New Window )
Engram pisses me off but I feel like his ending is near .... the new cupcake on the team?
Kenny Galloday.
Probably hard to find the tip ball interceptions documented.
Don't even need stats. Any Giants fan that is honest with themselves, will say Engram, when asked who they think tipped more passes than anyone else in recent history.
Ramcyzk was tailor-made for the Giants. I was so bummed they didn't take him.
Players like Kelce and Kittle were drafted in rounds 3 and 5 respectfully.
Putting Jones aside because QBs are so tough to hit on...
The startling thing is 3 of the first 4 were pure talent evaluation misses... and the 1 that wasn't (Barkley) was a need misalignment further compounded by what seems like career altering injuries..
Let's not forget Barkley was drafted as a guy who should have a HOF career, then produced at a HOF level for 2 years..
Quote:
on TJ Watt, Ryan Ramcyzk and Cam Robinson to draft him
Ramcyzk was tailor-made for the Giants. I was so bummed they didn't take him.
We still have Golladay and Toney, don't we?
Only thing he had was speed.
So what did Chris Mara think of him.
Scouting clearly the problem with the Giants. Hope new GM can fix scouting.
Except, of course, that it helped...
:-)