Brian Flores - Points I haven't seen on

Graham?

The reports out of Miami is he wore down staff quickly.

The Giants had to give Graham the Ass. Head Coach + DC title to get him but it would've been easy for Miami to do the same to keep him. It's not like he went from DB Coach to DC. It was essentially a lateral move.

In comment 15562688 .McL. said:

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Graham?

No he gave Judge permission to interview (and promote him to AHC). I don't recall if Flores ever called defensive plays at any point in Miami but the conjecture was that they were running his (Flores) defense so he wasn't going to stand in the way of someone on his staff getting promoted. Flores clearly wasn't afraid to fire coaches he didn't believe in and he didn't fire Graham, but the degree to which he valued him who knows?

special consideration for keeping. Our defense was just ok. Never generated a pass rush, secondary played 15 yards off the ball, couldn't stop the run and in general was just meh. .

he inherited the worst giants defense in the SB era by just about any metric. They allowed 28+ ppg which was good for 30th overall.

In 2020 they allowed 22 which I believe was a top 10. That's a big turnaround.

in 2021 they took a step back to 24 ppg (23rd), though part of that was likely impacted by losing streak with a non competitive offense at the end of the season.

Graham isn't a superstar or anything but he's competent. He inherited garbage and built a viable defense, and that was without spending a ton of money or lucking into a game changer like a Bosa/Parsons. In fact the highest drafted defender in his 2 years was McKinney, who was hurt for almost all of year 1. Martinez, Bradberry, and Ryan were solid additions at reasonable prices. If Flores is the choice and he wants to bring Graham back that wouldn't be a bad outcome. I'd prefer Harbough/Fangio but other than that not sure there's any other better combo.

I thought he generally had a good plan, got the most out of the talent, was liked and respected, the guys were well coached, and kept the team in games.

He was not perfect, of course. but consider the constant up hill battle of having virtually zero offense, losing TOP, never having a lead, limited personel, no pass rusher

Then there is unknown judge factor. I have often wondered if the lack of aggression was on the HC more or as much as personell.

The lack of blitz and off coverage was not prevalent in miami. it could be a result of the HC conservative nature.

The end of half stuff was ridiculous, no doubt. outside that I would love to keep graham.

Interesting note, he overlapped with Daboll in NE for several years

Graham is Mr R*d R*st 2.0 "Bend & Break".

I really hope Graham gets a head coaching job so the Giants get some future 3rd round picks.

In comment 15562758 Trainmaster said:

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Graham is Mr R*d R*st 2.0 "Bend & Break". I really hope Graham gets a head coaching job so the Giants get some future 3rd round picks.

For fun please name me the Top Defensive coaches in the NFL right now please.

think Graham did a fine job when you consider the lack of sustained drives and turnovers by our offense. They put our D in the worst possible position constantly.

In comment 15562767 NYG22 said:

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think Graham did a fine job when you consider the lack of sustained drives and turnovers by our offense. They put our D in the worst possible position constantly.

Plus lack of consistent pass rush.

That is a growing trend in NFL defense, wether you like it or not. With the proliferation of Offense, and rules favoring scoring points..."Stopping" the other team is not as viable an optionas it used to be.

Limiting points is the trend, and it started with Lil Bill. Harass the offense down the field, no big plays. Make the offense execute 8,10,12 plays to move the ball. Encourage the run (almost allow it SB25). play great red zone Defense. force fgs if possible. This is similar to the fangio/ Staley strategy, as well as the Ravens.

In comment 15562773 dancing blue bear said:

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That is a growing trend in NFL defense, wether you like it or not. With the proliferation of Offense, and rules favoring scoring points..."Stopping" the other team is not as viable an optionas it used to be. Limiting points is the trend, and it started with Lil Bill. Harass the offense down the field, no big plays. Make the offense execute 8,10,12 plays to move the ball. Encourage the run (almost allow it SB25). play great red zone Defense. force fgs if possible. This is similar to the fangio/ Staley strategy, as well as the Ravens.

and the Pats, and the Ravens. For several years resource allocation has been moving towards the secondaries.

In comment 15562713 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 15562688 .McL. said: Quote: Graham? No he gave Judge permission to interview (and promote him to AHC). I don't recall if Flores ever called defensive plays at any point in Miami but the conjecture was that they were running his (Flores) defense so he wasn't going to stand in the way of someone on his staff getting promoted. Flores clearly wasn't afraid to fire coaches he didn't believe in and he didn't fire Graham, but the degree to which he valued him who knows?

Graham acknowledged in an interview that they ran Flores's scheme in Miami.

In comment 15562773 dancing blue bear said:

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That is a growing trend in NFL defense, wether you like it or not. With the proliferation of Offense, and rules favoring scoring points..."Stopping" the other team is not as viable an option as it used to be. Limiting points is the trend, and it started with Lil Bill. Harass the offense down the field, no big plays. Make the offense execute 8,10,12 plays to move the ball. Encourage the run (almost allow it SB25). play great red zone Defense. force fgs if possible. This is similar to the fangio/ Staley strategy, as well as the Ravens.

The problem comes when you can't allow a field goal, like against Washington (the first game) and Atlanta this year. We lost those games because the defense allowed the opposing team's offense to get in range.

First BB56, great to see you posting again.

In no particular order:

Leslie Frazier DC Buffalo
Todd Bowles DC Tampa Bay
Raheem Morris DC Rams
DeMeco Ryans DC 49ers
Shane Bowen DC Titans
Steve Spagnuolo DC Chiefs

All in the playoffs

In comment 15562780 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 15562773 dancing blue bear said: Quote: That is a growing trend in NFL defense, wether you like it or not. With the proliferation of Offense, and rules favoring scoring points..."Stopping" the other team is not as viable an option as it used to be. Limiting points is the trend, and it started with Lil Bill. Harass the offense down the field, no big plays. Make the offense execute 8,10,12 plays to move the ball. Encourage the run (almost allow it SB25). play great red zone Defense. force fgs if possible. This is similar to the fangio/ Staley strategy, as well as the Ravens. The problem comes when you can't allow a field goal, like against Washington (the first game) and Atlanta this year. We lost those games because the defense allowed the opposing team's offense to get in range.

100% agree. and the end of halves. and those things need to be examined. They were absolutely hamstrung with lack of a plus pass rusher. They were also at a disadvantage playing so many snaps per game. Then there was spots were playcalling left something to be desired.

I'm not banging on the table for the guy, but I thought he did a pretty good job, all things considered. He also is in his 3rd year as a DC, so you would expect him to continue to grow and improve.

I like Graham and think he is a. pretty good, and b. has the potential to be alot better.

In comment 15562789 Trainmaster said:

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First BB56, great to see you posting again. In no particular order: Leslie Frazier DC Buffalo Todd Bowles DC Tampa Bay Raheem Morris DC Rams DeMeco Ryans DC 49ers Shane Bowen DC Titans Steve Spagnuolo DC Chiefs All in the playoffs

can't dismiss your list out of hand.

Who is better that is available. WE all dream of fangio

after that...zim?, then...

Then the antithesis to that style would be a bend don't break defense. A DBB highlighted above, it's a growing trend in the NFL.

Also, I don't even think that's Graham's preferred style of defense but one he adjusted to out of necessity with the lack of pass rush. Week 1 of both seasons he tried to blitz and play more man but got torched when the blitzes weren't getting home.

If he is part of the Flores package count me out. Watching us play so soft is very frustrating. I'd like our D to dictate the game not let the other team control the ball all game. Its such a boring brand of football.

Full Tear Down.
Not partial.

In comment 15562831 ZogZerg said:

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Full Tear Down. Not partial.

This.

in the lack of pass rush. I felt like thats where Graham lost me this year. There was no creativity in rushing the passer. An I guess you could say talent lacked but then if he was that good he'd figure out better ways to get home. you have LW and Dex, a 1st round pick(but perhaps not 1st rd talent) along with OJ who had some sacks but never when it mattered most it seems. You have two well paid CB's and a MLB who was paid well even though he was injured. I think THAT is what hurt Graham the most is not having a decent MLB/D QB, talent wise. We have an overpaid peppers, ryan and should really have used love more. I just don't think Graham is as good at getting the most out of the talent he has. Others on that list and more are better. Dan Quinn did a better job and though it was all about turn overs he still had a better D than ours.

In comment 15562749 Eric on Li said:

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he inherited the worst giants defense in the SB era by just about any metric. They allowed 28+ ppg which was good for 30th overall. In 2020 they allowed 22 which I believe was a top 10. That's a big turnaround. in 2021 they took a step back to 24 ppg (23rd), though part of that was likely impacted by losing streak with a non competitive offense at the end of the season. Graham isn't a superstar or anything but he's competent. He inherited garbage and built a viable defense, and that was without spending a ton of money or lucking into a game changer like a Bosa/Parsons. In fact the highest drafted defender in his 2 years was McKinney, who was hurt for almost all of year 1. Martinez, Bradberry, and Ryan were solid additions at reasonable prices. If Flores is the choice and he wants to bring Graham back that wouldn't be a bad outcome. I'd prefer Harbough/Fangio but other than that not sure there's any other better combo.

the turnaround from 19 to 20 was impressive and made me a fan of his.

I'll be happy if he is retained but wont cry if he is replaced.

than how the HC is going to fix the OL to be able to protect the QB and block the front 7 of Dallas, WFT and Philly.