@PFF_Bet: Josh McDaniels is (+200) to be the next head coach of the NY Giants
Not sure if this means anything, but prior to today he was always pretty far down the list. Curious if someone got word we are hiring Adam Peters as our next GM.
some time ago about those two being a package deal.
Together in NE. A poster above noted their overlap in Denver.
I’ve liked McDaniels and wanted him the last two hiring cycles, but now I’m not as hot on it but I think he will be a good coach his second go around and would support it if Peters is the new GM and wants it.
I’m just not sure where he fits in the equation of the cutting edge NFL offenses / programs these days.
as inexperas Mike McDaniel is I’d still take him over Josh McDaniels. I’m in favor of Peters but not with Josh. I’d rather have Doug Pederson or Flores.
Mcdaniels has been +200 since at LEAST January 18th which was the last time I looked. That’s before Peters 2nd interview so it has nothing to do with any info leaking.
Do you think it is demoralizing to the Black candidates sort of knowing they are the Rooney candidate? The NFL is right to try and get more Black front office people and there are absolutely fine Black candidates for these high level jobs. I suppose being able to interview, get experience and your name out there is important for the resume. But does it lead to cynicism in minority front office candidates that it is just a ploy to fulfill a requirement. After all these years, aside from Ozzie(who is probably the best GM/VP in the last 25 years) where are the Black GMs? I think Mike Tomlinson could be a very good GM as could have Tony Dungy.
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
For me, it’s trust. What he pulled with the Colts was fucked up. Whose to say it wouldn’t happen again? Maybe he was made aware of Luck not being all in, I don’t know.
And although Peters track record with scouting appears to be extremely strong, I’m not sure Josh McDaniels would be the right move
I’d prefer he took a chance on either of the coordinators with San Fran, if Peters were offered the job, honestly
I'm also warming to the idea of someone like DeMeco Ryans leading the way. I wanted the Giants to draft him back in 2006, but they opted for Mathias Kiwanuka, which worked out alright.
I did hate how Ryans defended Dallas at the end of that playoff game -- not sure if that's a red flag -- but he seems a bright guy and a strong leader and hopefully would try to bring in strong coordinators. I guess the unknown is always sexier, like it was with Judge.
Regarding McDaniels, it's good he had that crash and burn experience in Denver to learn from. While very young, he took a Tebow led team to the playoffs and beat a heavily favored Pittsburgh. The wheels fell off the next year, but he did do some bold and impressive things including beating BB in the Pats hay day.
no thanks. A) the Belichick assts have been largely awful and
Anyway, I was trying to look at devils advocate-type reasoning just for the sake of discussion but I cant. Part of me feels like you cant act like the Belichick tree is poison and that each of these guys deserve to be thought of as individuals. You run the risk of missing out on a great coach if you dont. But damn the evidence is pretty overwhelming isn't it? and his time in Denver was pretty awful.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
RE: This isnt exactly new, it happened after 2nd interviews were announced
Anyway, I was trying to look at devils advocate-type reasoning just for the sake of discussion but I cant. Part of me feels like you cant act like the Belichick tree is poison and that each of these guys deserve to be thought of as individuals. You run the risk of missing out on a great coach if you dont. But damn the evidence is pretty overwhelming isn't it? and his time in Denver was pretty awful.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
The Twitter account just posted it at 6:20 last night. I assumed it was new.
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
Absolutely that entire situation comes into play. But he also had the greatest QB and HC of all time in NE, are you confident that their offensive success was heavily based on his efforts?
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
McDaniels came in to the Denver job and in short order so alienated his franchise QB, Jay Cutler, that Cutler demanded a trade. Then he accepts the Colts job, reverses himself and leaves his staff in limbo. A massive selfish a**hole. That’s before we take into account his lack of success in Denver. So there are doubts about his ability at that level.
I’m very much against this and also think Mara would have a problem with it.
I think people will be impressed with his work with Mac Jones. Giants may be in the market for a new QB the next year or two. Here you have someone that has been through the evaluation process and then produced strong results with that QB.
Yes he has some baggage. He could also have learned and grown from it. If the new GM is on board then I an as well.
McDaniels is the last guy I want to see. Was a disaster in Denver, has no personal integrity, and have we really not learned to avoid Belichick assistants by now?
McDaniels is the last guy I want to see. Was a disaster in Denver, has no personal integrity, and have we really not learned to avoid Belichick assistants by now?
this....fuck that guy
RE: RE: This isnt exactly new, it happened after 2nd interviews were announced
Anyway, I was trying to look at devils advocate-type reasoning just for the sake of discussion but I cant. Part of me feels like you cant act like the Belichick tree is poison and that each of these guys deserve to be thought of as individuals. You run the risk of missing out on a great coach if you dont. But damn the evidence is pretty overwhelming isn't it? and his time in Denver was pretty awful.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
The Twitter account just posted it at 6:20 last night. I assumed it was new.
No worries man, wasn't trying to take a shot, just clarifying that it probably isn't an indication of an impending announcement. I mean Peters could absolutely be the guy but the movement on the line was related to the 2nd interview.
McDaniels is the last guy I want to see. Was a disaster in Denver, has no personal integrity, and have we really not learned to avoid Belichick assistants by now?
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
Yes
Absolutely that entire situation comes into play. But he also had the greatest QB and HC of all time in NE, are you confident that their offensive success was heavily based on his efforts?
Do you think it is demoralizing to the Black candidates sort of knowing they are the Rooney candidate? The NFL is right to try and get more Black front office people and there are absolutely fine Black candidates for these high level jobs. I suppose being able to interview, get experience and your name out there is important for the resume. But does it lead to cynicism in minority front office candidates that it is just a ploy to fulfill a requirement. After all these years, aside from Ozzie(who is probably the best GM/VP in the last 25 years) where are the Black GMs? I think Mike Tomlinson could be a very good GM as could have Tony Dungy.
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
Stop looking at the rule in a vaccum .... there literally has been HUNDREDS of years of oppression then a system predicated on keeping people oppressed (the actual govt placed guns and drugs in black communitities then the govt says lets have a war on drugs and guns in those same ares). Viewed and treated as less than simply due to some BS lies. Why would something made to offset and balance be viewed as negative. Had the Redlining, Racism, Opression economically, educational and opportunity wise not take place over centuries and decades we ar not even having this questioning or debate WHY ... BECAUSE YOU HAVE BLACK PEOPLE OWNING TEAMS IN ALL MAJOR SPORTS, COMPANIES IN COMMERCE and FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, etc.
Do you think it is demoralizing to the Black candidates sort of knowing they are the Rooney candidate? The NFL is right to try and get more Black front office people and there are absolutely fine Black candidates for these high level jobs. I suppose being able to interview, get experience and your name out there is important for the resume. But does it lead to cynicism in minority front office candidates that it is just a ploy to fulfill a requirement. After all these years, aside from Ozzie(who is probably the best GM/VP in the last 25 years) where are the Black GMs? I think Mike Tomlinson could be a very good GM as could have Tony Dungy.
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
The idea of anyone being a token interview is definitely a concern, but part of the point of the Rooney Rule is to even get more minority candidates considered, and in that sense, it's working. The red flag, IMO, is when the same candidate(s) pop up repeatedly for all teams' hiring cycles. IIRC, Leslie Frazier seemed like the de facto Rooney candidate for years. But by some accounts, Mike Tomlin originally got the Pittsburgh HC job based on a stellar interview that he might not have gotten had it not been for the Rooney Rule. I think the same might have been the case for Raheem Morris in Tampa.
As it relates to GM candidates, I think we're probably just starting to scratch the surface with regards to really good minority candidates. Part of the process was getting minority executives into front offices to allow them to become qualified candidates, and that seems be taking place. Looking at the Giants' GM search, we had four minority candidates out of nine original interviewees, and all of them would have been compelling options.
Sure, only one of those four made it to the final round, so three were eliminated, but three white candidates were also eliminated in the first round as well.
Belichick quit on the Jets. Should the Pats have avoided him?
That was a very different situation. The Two Bills 30 for 30 laid out what happened. Parcells resigned as head coach because Belichick's contract said he would get the job if Parcells stepped down. He didn't speak to Belichick about it beforehand, and Belichick didn't want the job because of the ownership being uncertain after the death of Leon Hess.
Josh McDaniels interviewed for the Colts job, was offered the job, accepted it, and then reneged.
Do you think it is demoralizing to the Black candidates sort of knowing they are the Rooney candidate? The NFL is right to try and get more Black front office people and there are absolutely fine Black candidates for these high level jobs. I suppose being able to interview, get experience and your name out there is important for the resume. But does it lead to cynicism in minority front office candidates that it is just a ploy to fulfill a requirement. After all these years, aside from Ozzie(who is probably the best GM/VP in the last 25 years) where are the Black GMs? I think Mike Tomlinson could be a very good GM as could have Tony Dungy.
It's unfortunate these measures need to be put in place.
Leaving meritocracy out of this for a second, consider the race breakdowns of high school and college football versus the NFL. I would wager that high school football race breakdowns mostly mirrors the ethnic breakdown of the local community, whereas college is somewhere in between the NFL and high school.
At each juncture, the more talented players move on and the less talented players tend to go into coaching.
Yes, you get guys like a Jim Harbaugh or Byron Leftwitch who played in the NFL and then became a coach. But for the most part, people have to understand coaching is a profession in itself, not just something retired players pick up and do.
Becoming a *head coach* in the NFL, is tough. Becoming a successful one is really tough. And that's assuming you've got the goods inside yourself......now you gotta also luck into a QB (modern NFL), and decent owner/GM (and for some coaches, luck with injuries).
It's so hard to make everything go right to be successful. It doesn't get talked about, but maybe being a very good head coach is as rare as a franchise QB.....probably rarer.
Just like there are not even 32 franchise QBs in the NFL, there aren't going to be 32 good coaches. So let's say conservatively, 20 head coaches are worthy at any given time......how the hell are you going to be able to pin that down to race percentages? LOL.
IMO, owners and GMs study the candidates hard, and go with their gut. Mike Tomlin had a solid but not amazing resume before becoming the Steelers HC, and now would be top of any list if he became available. Was this his first ever season under .500? Insane.
Now Demeco Ryans who even Niner fans were not sure TWO MONTHS AGO would be a good enough DC is getting HC considerations?!!
Good for him, would hate to lose him. But if he got it, wouldn't be a Rooney hire at all.
Vance Joseph beat out Kyle Shanahan for the Broncos job. Son of the best Broncos HC ever lost out to Vance Joseph. Lots of Broncos fans have made note of that.
Shit's tiring. If you're amazing in 2022, you will get your shot no matter how you look.
So, maybe this is a chance to rewrite history and get it right this time.
Isn't screwing other teams his go-to negotiating tactic?
He was very innovative, running the punt team on to the field as the play clock ran down…. That fooled everyone every time
Kick down the forbidden door.
Together in NE. A poster above noted their overlap in Denver.
I’ve liked McDaniels and wanted him the last two hiring cycles, but now I’m not as hot on it but I think he will be a good coach his second go around and would support it if Peters is the new GM and wants it.
I’m just not sure where he fits in the equation of the cutting edge NFL offenses / programs these days.
I’d prefer he took a chance on either of the coordinators with San Fran, if Peters were offered the job, honestly
Actually, he is available for head coach again as well - I hear he interviews well - lol
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
For me, it’s trust. What he pulled with the Colts was fucked up. Whose to say it wouldn’t happen again? Maybe he was made aware of Luck not being all in, I don’t know.
In a vacuum, I like McDaniels.
I hate to play the role of Gator here, but it's Mike McDaniel. No s at the end. ;)
I’d prefer he took a chance on either of the coordinators with San Fran, if Peters were offered the job, honestly
I'm also warming to the idea of someone like DeMeco Ryans leading the way. I wanted the Giants to draft him back in 2006, but they opted for Mathias Kiwanuka, which worked out alright.
I did hate how Ryans defended Dallas at the end of that playoff game -- not sure if that's a red flag -- but he seems a bright guy and a strong leader and hopefully would try to bring in strong coordinators. I guess the unknown is always sexier, like it was with Judge.
Regarding McDaniels, it's good he had that crash and burn experience in Denver to learn from. While very young, he took a Tebow led team to the playoffs and beat a heavily favored Pittsburgh. The wheels fell off the next year, but he did do some bold and impressive things including beating BB in the Pats hay day.
He was a pretty epic flameout in Denver too. I'm sure he's learned some lessons since then, but I understand why people are wary.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
The Twitter account just posted it at 6:20 last night. I assumed it was new.
Why in the heck would NY be interested in Josh? Why would Schoen, Poles, and Peters be interested in JOSH MCDANIELS.
Absolutely that entire situation comes into play. But he also had the greatest QB and HC of all time in NE, are you confident that their offensive success was heavily based on his efforts?
The more I watch the NFL- the more I think that it really matters who's responsible for both sides of the football.
I just don't see Mara being able to "sell" Giants fans on back-to-back Belichick guys, especially when all the previous ones failed.
His offensive ranks reflect that. In Denver as HC and his single season as OC in STL, his offenses were less than impressive.
McDaniels came in to the Denver job and in short order so alienated his franchise QB, Jay Cutler, that Cutler demanded a trade. Then he accepts the Colts job, reverses himself and leaves his staff in limbo. A massive selfish a**hole. That’s before we take into account his lack of success in Denver. So there are doubts about his ability at that level.
I’m very much against this and also think Mara would have a problem with it.
Yes he has some baggage. He could also have learned and grown from it. If the new GM is on board then I an as well.
this....fuck that guy
Quote:
Anyway, I was trying to look at devils advocate-type reasoning just for the sake of discussion but I cant. Part of me feels like you cant act like the Belichick tree is poison and that each of these guys deserve to be thought of as individuals. You run the risk of missing out on a great coach if you dont. But damn the evidence is pretty overwhelming isn't it? and his time in Denver was pretty awful.
We all said we wanted the new GM to run the show so if this comes to fruition Im gonna reserve judgement and hope for the best.
The Twitter account just posted it at 6:20 last night. I assumed it was new.
No worries man, wasn't trying to take a shot, just clarifying that it probably isn't an indication of an impending announcement. I mean Peters could absolutely be the guy but the movement on the line was related to the 2nd interview.
Quote:
McDaniels is the last guy I want to see. Was a disaster in Denver, has no personal integrity, and have we really not learned to avoid Belichick assistants by now?
this....fuck that guy
+3
And because he pulled a "Joe Judge" as HC of Denver.
Please, not again.
Quote:
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
Yes
Absolutely that entire situation comes into play. But he also had the greatest QB and HC of all time in NE, are you confident that their offensive success was heavily based on his efforts?
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
Stop looking at the rule in a vaccum .... there literally has been HUNDREDS of years of oppression then a system predicated on keeping people oppressed (the actual govt placed guns and drugs in black communitities then the govt says lets have a war on drugs and guns in those same ares). Viewed and treated as less than simply due to some BS lies. Why would something made to offset and balance be viewed as negative. Had the Redlining, Racism, Opression economically, educational and opportunity wise not take place over centuries and decades we ar not even having this questioning or debate WHY ... BECAUSE YOU HAVE BLACK PEOPLE OWNING TEAMS IN ALL MAJOR SPORTS, COMPANIES IN COMMERCE and FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS, etc.
BTW, reading the bio on Ryan Poles leads me to believe this guy will be a GM soon - seems sharp and comes from a very good organization.
The idea of anyone being a token interview is definitely a concern, but part of the point of the Rooney Rule is to even get more minority candidates considered, and in that sense, it's working. The red flag, IMO, is when the same candidate(s) pop up repeatedly for all teams' hiring cycles. IIRC, Leslie Frazier seemed like the de facto Rooney candidate for years. But by some accounts, Mike Tomlin originally got the Pittsburgh HC job based on a stellar interview that he might not have gotten had it not been for the Rooney Rule. I think the same might have been the case for Raheem Morris in Tampa.
As it relates to GM candidates, I think we're probably just starting to scratch the surface with regards to really good minority candidates. Part of the process was getting minority executives into front offices to allow them to become qualified candidates, and that seems be taking place. Looking at the Giants' GM search, we had four minority candidates out of nine original interviewees, and all of them would have been compelling options.
Sure, only one of those four made it to the final round, so three were eliminated, but three white candidates were also eliminated in the first round as well.
Belichick quit on the Jets. Should the Pats have avoided him?
Quote:
Not want McDaniels? Is it because he fucked the Colts?
He was a pretty epic flameout in Denver too. I'm sure he's learned some lessons since then, but I understand why people are wary.
This. I wanted the Giants to hire him in 2018, but after the Indy fiasco? I'd be very hesitant about offering him anything.
Quote:
How he fucked over the Colts. He SHOULD be radioactive to anyone but the Patriots.
Belichick quit on the Jets. Should the Pats have avoided him?
He quit on the Jets to join the Pats if I remember correctly. The Pats were in on it.
That was a very different situation. The Two Bills 30 for 30 laid out what happened. Parcells resigned as head coach because Belichick's contract said he would get the job if Parcells stepped down. He didn't speak to Belichick about it beforehand, and Belichick didn't want the job because of the ownership being uncertain after the death of Leon Hess.
Josh McDaniels interviewed for the Colts job, was offered the job, accepted it, and then reneged.
It's unfortunate these measures need to be put in place.
Leaving meritocracy out of this for a second, consider the race breakdowns of high school and college football versus the NFL. I would wager that high school football race breakdowns mostly mirrors the ethnic breakdown of the local community, whereas college is somewhere in between the NFL and high school.
At each juncture, the more talented players move on and the less talented players tend to go into coaching.
Yes, you get guys like a Jim Harbaugh or Byron Leftwitch who played in the NFL and then became a coach. But for the most part, people have to understand coaching is a profession in itself, not just something retired players pick up and do.
Becoming a *head coach* in the NFL, is tough. Becoming a successful one is really tough. And that's assuming you've got the goods inside yourself......now you gotta also luck into a QB (modern NFL), and decent owner/GM (and for some coaches, luck with injuries).
It's so hard to make everything go right to be successful. It doesn't get talked about, but maybe being a very good head coach is as rare as a franchise QB.....probably rarer.
Just like there are not even 32 franchise QBs in the NFL, there aren't going to be 32 good coaches. So let's say conservatively, 20 head coaches are worthy at any given time......how the hell are you going to be able to pin that down to race percentages? LOL.
IMO, owners and GMs study the candidates hard, and go with their gut. Mike Tomlin had a solid but not amazing resume before becoming the Steelers HC, and now would be top of any list if he became available. Was this his first ever season under .500? Insane.
Now Demeco Ryans who even Niner fans were not sure TWO MONTHS AGO would be a good enough DC is getting HC considerations?!!
Good for him, would hate to lose him. But if he got it, wouldn't be a Rooney hire at all.
Vance Joseph beat out Kyle Shanahan for the Broncos job. Son of the best Broncos HC ever lost out to Vance Joseph. Lots of Broncos fans have made note of that.
Shit's tiring. If you're amazing in 2022, you will get your shot no matter how you look.