Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Least surprising ‘news’ ever … but I’m hearing Joe Schoen does indeed have Brian Daboll at top of his HC candidates and Adam Peters does have Brian Flores at top. Sometimes it really is as simple as Connect the Dots, even though you have to do the work to confirm. #giants
Same. But I’m also not crazy about Daboll either. Not a lot of amazing HC candidates out there.
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
why? He had b2b winning records and technically Daniel Jones would be an improvement over any QB he's had in miami.
Tua is better than Jones. Flores willbrun DJ out of town.
I'd be all in on Peters/Flores.
I think his relationship with Grier/Tua wasn't healthy and they wanted to move on.
In all other facets, I think his players loved playing for him.
I'd be all in on Peters/Flores.
There's gotta be something to all the smoke but I am sure there's a lot of that going on. His firing brought on a lot of attention and scrutiny. It also shined a light on their poor drafting, so it wouldn't shock me if the GM and team were doing some damage control.
I imagine he's at least a little difficult to work with but that should be mitigated if he and Peters have a good working relationship from their time in NE.
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In comment 15563865 bw in dc said:
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
why? He had b2b winning records and technically Daniel Jones would be an improvement over any QB he's had in miami.
Tua is better than Jones. Flores willbrun DJ out of town.
I disagree Tue is very blah. He has had a much better OL than Daniel Jones as well.
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In comment 15563873 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15563865 bw in dc said:
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
why? He had b2b winning records and technically Daniel Jones would be an improvement over any QB he's had in miami.
Tua is better than Jones. Flores willbrun DJ out of town.
I disagree Tue is very blah. He has had a much better OL than Daniel Jones as well.
Don't hold your breath. Tua is accurate, and could move that offense, and DJ is inaccurate and not productive. I think we've seen Flores isn't going to wait around for a bum to get it together.
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In comment 15563894 Producer said:
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In comment 15563873 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15563865 bw in dc said:
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
why? He had b2b winning records and technically Daniel Jones would be an improvement over any QB he's had in miami.
Tua is better than Jones. Flores willbrun DJ out of town.
I disagree Tue is very blah. He has had a much better OL than Daniel Jones as well.
Don't hold your breath. Tua is accurate, and could move that offense, and DJ is inaccurate and not productive. I think we've seen Flores isn't going to wait around for a bum to get it together.
Tua has a Chad Pennington type arm.
And I'm not even advocating for DJ long term. I'm just saying for Flores to have a to have back to back winning years with the QB play he has had is impressive.
Judge was never a hot assistant, and Shurmur was a retread. We never hired a hot assistant like McDaniel.
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with the "hot assistant coach that year" approach. So I guess this means I like Quinn and Flores (and Harbaugh). Both guys have proven they can win games as an NFL HC
Judge was never a hot assistant, and Shurmur was a retread. We never hired a hot assistant like McDaniel.
Producer/Debaser, Shurmur was the NFL Assistant Coach of Year the season before. He was absolutely a hot commodity. Please try to keep up. McDaniels was a complete failure like Judge at Denver, and was a moron in how he dealt with Cleveland (lucky for Cleveland actually).
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
Same. But I’m also not crazy about Daboll either. Not a lot of amazing HC candidates out there.
I like Daboll better than Flores. And that is based on Daboll's work (along with Dorsey and Jordan Palmers - they deserve credit as well) with Allen, I like the idea of Daboll working with the next NYG QB.
Further, I like the trend in the NFL of having an offensive minded HC. So I have bias there.
This is definitely not true. Fins OL isn't good whatsoever.
The only one that I'm kind of iffy about is Flores, only because of the way things ended in Miami. Obviously I don't know all the details but things must have been really bad for them to fire him.
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In comment 15563908 PatersonPlank said:
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with the "hot assistant coach that year" approach. So I guess this means I like Quinn and Flores (and Harbaugh). Both guys have proven they can win games as an NFL HC
Judge was never a hot assistant, and Shurmur was a retread. We never hired a hot assistant like McDaniel.
Producer/Debaser, Shurmur was the NFL Assistant Coach of Year the season before. He was absolutely a hot commodity. Please try to keep up. McDaniels was a complete failure like Judge at Denver, and was a moron in how he dealt with Cleveland (lucky for Cleveland actually).
I'm talking about Mike McDaniel. Shurmur was a 50 yr old coaching retread. Try to keep up.
Don't hold your breath. Tua is accurate, and could move that offense, and DJ is inaccurate and not productive. I think we've seen Flores isn't going to wait around for a bum to get it together.
Jones is not accurate? Ok then.
+1
I really like what I've learned about both Schoen & Peters and really had no preference. However, this news nudges me over to the Schoen side.
These two worked as scouts together so a good chance they see players and team building from a similar viewpoint.
The biggest concern with Flores is obviously getting along with the front office. If he and Peters get along well, that concern is alleviated.
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Don't hold your breath. Tua is accurate, and could move that offense, and DJ is inaccurate and not productive. I think we've seen Flores isn't going to wait around for a bum to get it together.
Jones is not accurate? Ok then.
He is consistently below 20th in comp pct. He consistently throws to the wrong side of his receivers. He can't throw to the back shoulder with any regularity.
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In comment 15563865 bw in dc said:
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
Same. But I’m also not crazy about Daboll either. Not a lot of amazing HC candidates out there.
I like Daboll better than Flores. And that is based on Daboll's work (along with Dorsey and Jordan Palmers - they deserve credit as well) with Allen, I like the idea of Daboll working with the next NYG QB.
Further, I like the trend in the NFL of having an offensive minded HC. So I have bias there.
Counterpoint: Allen is talented, and look at Daboll's resume before Allen.
He was OC for Miami in 2011. That lasted one year, as the offense was near the bottom. He was OC for KC in 2012. That lasted one year, as the offense was near the bottom. So, he really has failed as an OC without Josh Allen. He won't have Josh Allen with the Giants.
He's not a lock to be successful imo.
I don't love Flores as the hype machine does simply because he got fired, and winning coaches don't get fired unless something is really wrong.
But what do we actually know?
Not enough to say if Peters likes Flores then we change opinions to prefer Shoen. You can look at Brian Daboll's resume too. It's not that good. Not at all, really.
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Really like Peters but not a fan of Flores.
+1
I really like what I've learned about both Schoen & Peters and really had no preference. However, this news nudges me over to the Schoen side.
Jones has been accurate for the most part - especially when you consider he was under duress. He does not throw that well on the run, but that may improve. He also got better with turnovers. I would like to see what he could do with a better OL and offensive scheme/playcalling. I don't know if he is the answer but I am not sure that he is not.
I don't love Flores as the hype machine does simply because he got fired, and winning coaches don't get fired unless something is really wrong.
But what do we actually know?
Not enough to say if Peters likes Flores then we change opinions to prefer Shoen. You can look at Brian Daboll's resume too. It's not that good. Not at all, really.
Because the Dolphins fired him, he's not a winning coach? He went 5-11 when the Dolphins were basically trying to tank, and traded all their players away. He went 10-6 and 9-8 the next two years. They had below avg QB play those years.
This is the approach we should all have.
It just seems more like a sure thing in terms of proven experience.
The Giants have gone with 3 brand new head coaches in a row, and having a coach that has actually done the job before would be a breathe of fresh air.
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You have to trust that the guy they hired knows what he's doing at least a little at first.
I don't love Flores as the hype machine does simply because he got fired, and winning coaches don't get fired unless something is really wrong.
But what do we actually know?
Not enough to say if Peters likes Flores then we change opinions to prefer Shoen. You can look at Brian Daboll's resume too. It's not that good. Not at all, really.
Because the Dolphins fired him, he's not a winning coach? He went 5-11 when the Dolphins were basically trying to tank, and traded all their players away. He went 10-6 and 9-8 the next two years. They had below avg QB play those years.
You're misunderstanding. Yes, he's a winning coach. In order to get fired after a 9 win season, something had to happen that isn't evident to any of us, and that should be enough to make anyone think twice. You have an 81 year old owner who is desperate to win. There was no reason to get rid of him that's obvious to anyone. Coaches don't lose jobs while winning.
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In comment 15563961 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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You have to trust that the guy they hired knows what he's doing at least a little at first.
I don't love Flores as the hype machine does simply because he got fired, and winning coaches don't get fired unless something is really wrong.
But what do we actually know?
Not enough to say if Peters likes Flores then we change opinions to prefer Shoen. You can look at Brian Daboll's resume too. It's not that good. Not at all, really.
Because the Dolphins fired him, he's not a winning coach? He went 5-11 when the Dolphins were basically trying to tank, and traded all their players away. He went 10-6 and 9-8 the next two years. They had below avg QB play those years.
You're misunderstanding. Yes, he's a winning coach. In order to get fired after a 9 win season, something had to happen that isn't evident to any of us, and that should be enough to make anyone think twice. You have an 81 year old owner who is desperate to win. There was no reason to get rid of him that's obvious to anyone. Coaches don't lose jobs while winning.
Definitely right that we as fans will never really get the full picture.
But I think it’s worth pointing out that the 81 year old owner hasn’t exactly been good at making football decisions.
I like Daboll better than Flores. And that is based on Daboll's work (along with Dorsey and Jordan Palmers - they deserve credit as well) with Allen, I like the idea of Daboll working with the next NYG QB.
Further, I like the trend in the NFL of having an offensive minded HC. So I have bias there.
Counterpoint: Allen is talented, and look at Daboll's resume before Allen.
He was OC for Miami in 2011. That lasted one year, as the offense was near the bottom. He was OC for KC in 2012. That lasted one year, as the offense was near the bottom. So, he really has failed as an OC without Josh Allen. He won't have Josh Allen with the Giants.
He's not a lock to be successful imo.
Those are all fair points.
Same here. I find myself agreeing with you a lot recently. Maybe I’m getting old and ornery :)
I would also prefer Ryans over Flores, but I like Schoen/Daboll a lot too.
I started watching some videos of Ryans coaching, and I have to say, he was definitely born to be a football coach.
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In comment 15563976 KDavies said:
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In comment 15563961 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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You have to trust that the guy they hired knows what he's doing at least a little at first.
I don't love Flores as the hype machine does simply because he got fired, and winning coaches don't get fired unless something is really wrong.
But what do we actually know?
Not enough to say if Peters likes Flores then we change opinions to prefer Shoen. You can look at Brian Daboll's resume too. It's not that good. Not at all, really.
Because the Dolphins fired him, he's not a winning coach? He went 5-11 when the Dolphins were basically trying to tank, and traded all their players away. He went 10-6 and 9-8 the next two years. They had below avg QB play those years.
You're misunderstanding. Yes, he's a winning coach. In order to get fired after a 9 win season, something had to happen that isn't evident to any of us, and that should be enough to make anyone think twice. You have an 81 year old owner who is desperate to win. There was no reason to get rid of him that's obvious to anyone. Coaches don't lose jobs while winning.
Definitely right that we as fans will never really get the full picture.
But I think it’s worth pointing out that the 81 year old owner hasn’t exactly been good at making football decisions.
My main concerns with Flores involve 1. his issues with the GM and 2. him not talking with staff
The issues with #1 are alleviated if the GM brings him in. If the Giants get Peters/Flores, it is because they worked well together in the past. He's not going to bring Flores in if he thinks the issue will be repeated here.
The #2 issue, Flores went 8-1 after that, so how much of a concern is it? Flores also grew up in the area (a Giants/Mets fan), so you'd also think this is a dream job for him, and he would have learned from that.
Heard very little here in south Florida about Flores conflicts until someone had to justify his firing.
His conclusion was that Flores was pushing for more control, perhaps unnecessarily since he already had near total control, but shouldn't have been fired and that it was mostly because Grier was more accommodating of Ross than Flores.
Behind-the-scenes fallout, factors in wake of the Flores dismissal - ( New Window )
Heard very little here in south Florida about Flores conflicts until someone had to justify his firing.
Peters started his career at NE, Flores spent 15 years there including first 4 as a scout
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He has had a much better OL than Daniel Jones as well.
This is definitely not true. Fins OL isn't good whatsoever.
True Miami OL sucked. But it was better (or at least much more consistent) than the Giants OL.
His conclusion was that Flores was pushing for more control, perhaps unnecessarily since he already had near total control, but shouldn't have been fired and that it was mostly because Grier was more accommodating of Ross than Flores. Behind-the-scenes fallout, factors in wake of the Flores dismissal - ( New Window )
Yeah, there's a lot of rumor and innuendo going around it. My larger point was that whatever was going on with the coaching staff, they were 8-1 when that was going down. I didn't mean for it to be conclusory that he was not talking to his staff.
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In comment 15563908 PatersonPlank said:
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with the "hot assistant coach that year" approach. So I guess this means I like Quinn and Flores (and Harbaugh). Both guys have proven they can win games as an NFL HC
Judge was never a hot assistant, and Shurmur was a retread. We never hired a hot assistant like McDaniel.
Producer/Debaser, Shurmur was the NFL Assistant Coach of Year the season before. He was absolutely a hot commodity. Please try to keep up. McDaniels was a complete failure like Judge at Denver, and was a moron in how he dealt with Cleveland (lucky for Cleveland actually).
I think he's talking about McDaniel, not McDaniels.
It just seems more like a sure thing in terms of proven experience.
The Giants have gone with 3 brand new head coaches in a row, and having a coach that has actually done the job before would be a breathe of fresh air.
Shurmur wasn't a new coach. He had already been an NFL head coach
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It would probably be Peter’s and Flores.
It just seems more like a sure thing in terms of proven experience.
The Giants have gone with 3 brand new head coaches in a row, and having a coach that has actually done the job before would be a breathe of fresh air.
Shurmur wasn't a new coach. He had already been an NFL head coach
Correct the retread track.
I think his history of drafting is exceptional. I think he would take a flyer on Malik Willis which would really be fun.
Fun has been missing from the Giants since OBJ.
We need someone to make us turn on the game. As much as two lineman would help, Willis would be interesting. Let DJ play another season then let Willis take over.
First of all, if the Giants were doing this for tokenism, it would be incredibly unprofessional. The requirement has already been filled. That they have accelerated him to finalist means it's more than that.
And if that wasn't logical enough, he is also a BC alum. John Mara would never do this to another BC man.