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Ian O'Connor : Two Man race between Peters and Schoen

BeckShepEli : 1/21/2022 9:43 am
"As expected, word is Adam Peters was great yesterday with the Giants. I believe he made it a two-man race with Joe Schoen. Everyone sees the younger Ryan Poles as a big star in the making. Giants will make decision today. I'd put 20 bucks on Schoen but Peters is right there."


Ian - ( New Window )
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RE: BleedBlue  
BleedBlue : 1/21/2022 10:34 am : link
In comment 15564097 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't know how we can assume anything of the sort.

I'm actually not overly confident that Mara will allow the new GM to run things.


well for now, we assume and see how it shakes out. If he doesnt, we are fucked anyways right? So for now, lets try and be positive. clearly mara had more balls this offseason so far than anyone expected so...so far so good...
RE: BleedBlue  
UberAlias : 1/21/2022 10:35 am : link
In comment 15564097 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't know how we can assume anything of the sort.

I'm actually not overly confident that Mara will allow the new GM to run things.
It is not unreasonable to assume it for several reasons. Starting with the fact that in the last cycle of head coach hiring the word was they were looking to bring in a man to help them rebuild the program. That is suggestion 1 pointing to some acknowledgement that things need to change. Item 2 is moving on from Abrams, meaning going out of Mara's comfort zone. Item 3 is the candidates they are looking at are not stretches here. They have strong resumes and many will have options either in this cycle or in near future. The question will be asked. Item 4 is having Chris Mara in the room for the interview suggests that when it is discussed it's out in the open and not shying away from it. Item 5 is that it was communicated to season ticket holders.
Item 6 is that is is being reported from beats and this information came from somewhere. So yes, maybe all a big lie, but there is depth to the notion that things are changing.
.....  
riceneggs : 1/21/2022 10:35 am : link
give me the one who's gonna pull of a trade for Deshaun Watson
RE: Sounds like it’ll be Schoen  
joeinpa : 1/21/2022 10:38 am : link
In comment 15564022 illmatic said:
Quote:
But I really hope it’s Peters. I think his track record is more impressive and I’m worried Schoen is getting an edge because of some old Parcells connection. It would make me think they aren’t completely giving up on the weird Giants Way/have a connection to the franchise somehow stuff.


You re worried about a Parcells ‘ connection? Sorry, don’t get that.
Mara knows the heat is on him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 10:39 am : link
I think the new GM/HC will get two good years to make the decisions. I do not expect they can rid of anyone but I believe Mara has set some parameters that both candidates are probably comfortable with. If he breaks that trust then the Giants are doomed.

If we do not see some big strides in 2023 where you can recognize a up and coming team then the meddling commences in 2024.
RE: I really like Pole  
Optimus-NY : 1/21/2022 10:44 am : link
In comment 15563974 UberAlias said:
Quote:
But it feels like they have it narrowed down to the correct two.


For no good reason I want Peters  
LG in NYC : 1/21/2022 10:45 am : link
(mostly I just like the way the 49ers are run) but I am very buoyed by the entire process thus far and am thrilled we are getting a GM (regardless of which we hire) that is 1) from outside the org, and 2) is coming from a quality and well run football organization.

really hoping this is a major turning point for this Giants org,
"Everyone sees Ryan Poles as a big star in the making"  
Mayo2JZ : 1/21/2022 10:47 am : link
Who is "everyone?"
I prefer Peters too but Schoen would be a nice hire also  
Metnut : 1/21/2022 10:48 am : link
Look at the Bills roster. It’s loaded on both sides of the ball. Completely build from scratch after they gutted the Rex Ryan teams. They’ve done really well in their drafts. No one should be disappointed bringing Schoen in.
RE: BleedBlue  
Costy16 : 1/21/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15564049 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Both seem like fine choices.

They are not my worry.

My worry is how much control they will actually have. Will they be allowed to gut the scouting department? Can they really hire the coaches? Can they tell Chris Mara to stay out of personnel issues?


This is what it all revolves around.
RE: BleedBlue  
VinegarPeppers : 1/21/2022 10:50 am : link
I don’t think the incoming could change the scouts before the draft.

comment 15564049 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Both seem like fine choices.

They are not my worry.

My worry is how much control they will actually have. Will they be allowed to gut the scouting department? Can they really hire the coaches? Can they tell Chris Mara to stay out of personnel issues?
Optimus - what can I say  
UberAlias : 1/21/2022 10:51 am : link
I'm comfortable in my own skin, LOL.
The 49ers success seams much more sustainable than the Bills  
BigBlue7 : 1/21/2022 10:52 am : link
The Bills will live and die with Josh Allen. The 49ers are solidly build on both sides of the ball.

I would be happy with either guy, mainly because we know next to nothing about how decisions were made in either organization. But if I am making a choice simply based on how the teams are constructed, then I would lean towards Peters and the 49ers
If I was a betting man (and I'm not)...  
Johnny5 : 1/21/2022 10:53 am : link
It's Schoen.


Which means it's Peters.
RE: RE: BleedBlue  
BigBlue7 : 1/21/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15564180 VinegarPeppers said:
Quote:
I don’t think the incoming could change the scouts before the draft.

comment 15564049 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Both seem like fine choices.

They are not my worry.

My worry is how much control they will actually have. Will they be allowed to gut the scouting department? Can they really hire the coaches? Can they tell Chris Mara to stay out of personnel issues?



Correct - GM and whoever he brings in with him may change the scoring system and how players are prioritized, but wholesale changes to who is actually doing the scouting is usually not made until the week after the draft.
Plenty of reasons to like Peters  
JonC : 1/21/2022 10:55 am : link
if you like sustained success and how the 49ers are built. He's my choice, while I think it's clear their favorite from the start was Schoen.

NYG is not trading for Watson, give it up.
RE: The 49ers success seams much more sustainable than the Bills  
g56blue10 : 1/21/2022 10:55 am : link
In comment 15564186 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
The Bills will live and die with Josh Allen. The 49ers are solidly build on both sides of the ball.

I would be happy with either guy, mainly because we know next to nothing about how decisions were made in either organization. But if I am making a choice simply based on how the teams are constructed, then I would lean towards Peters and the 49ers


The Bills defense is really good but I I won’t argue that the 49ers is just a well built team in all phase.. I love how physical they are on offense me defense.. offensively you are correct, Allen carry’s that team
I would be happy with either one  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/21/2022 10:55 am : link
I didn’t think I have nearly enough information to be unhappy about either choice.
RE: Optimus - what can I say  
Optimus-NY : 1/21/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15564184 UberAlias said:
Quote:
I'm comfortable in my own skin, LOL.


Gotta love the Peter then! lol
RE: Plenty of reasons to like Peters  
bigblue5611 : 1/21/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15564191 JonC said:
Quote:
if you like sustained success and how the 49ers are built. He's my choice, while I think it's clear their favorite from the start was Schoen.

NYG is not trading for Watson, give it up.


Do you think there is a clear cut winner between the two? Or better phrased, do you see a big enough gap between the two where it would be a big regret should they go with Schoen over Peters?
Anybody else finding it strange  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 10:57 am : link
that no one has been hired yet from all the teams looking? I wonder how this is all playing out behind the scenes.

Maybe the Giants are in the drivers seat here and the dominos start falling after they make their decision. Usually teams seem to close fast when they like someone.
Would probably go with Peters  
ghost718 : 1/21/2022 10:57 am : link
I don't know about Flores though
RE: Anybody else finding it strange  
BigBlue7 : 1/21/2022 11:02 am : link
In comment 15564203 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
that no one has been hired yet from all the teams looking? I wonder how this is all playing out behind the scenes.

Maybe the Giants are in the drivers seat here and the dominos start falling after they make their decision. Usually teams seem to close fast when they like someone.


I think it is kind of like free agency - dominoes won't start to fall until the teams with the most attractive situation decide on what do to first.

In terms of openings right now, I would think that the Giants and Raiders have the two best landing spots for a GM.

The Bears organizational structure and ownership situation might have some guys tepid on taking that job.

The Vikings have a weird QB situation

The Broncos have a solid core of guys, but the pending ownership sale could make a perspective GM tentative about going to a spot where a new owner may want to pick his own GM
I was worried about Peters being too much of a West Coast guy to start  
Optimus-NY : 1/21/2022 11:02 am : link
I feel better now though if the Giants feel comfortable enough with him at this juncture. I'll take either Schoen or Peters. Poles's age concerns me a bit. What I'm really worried about is how much the Maras will back off. Eric's post about is spot on. Are the Maras going to let either Peters or Schoen gut the scouting department and hire their own people? Will the Maras fall completely back out of football decision making matters? Will the Head Coach and his coaching staff be decided by the G.M. and Head Coach?

I'll say this about Peters: he's grown on me the more I've learned about him. Whether it's him or Schones, we should be in good hands (assuming the Maras go watch the ponies and lay off of the foosball decision making process).
RE: Hopefully Mara's initial reaction was  
bw in dc : 1/21/2022 11:04 am : link
In comment 15564012 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
"I really liked Poles! Let's hire him right now!!!" Then Tisch left the room to call Poles and said "Sorry, we are going to go in a different direction."


Well done. Very funny.
I Think It Will Be Peters  
pa_giant_fan : 1/21/2022 11:05 am : link
And with Flores as his top choice, just might be the coach the Giants prefer.
RE: RE: RE: BleedBlue  
Sammo85 : 1/21/2022 11:07 am : link
In comment 15564190 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15564180 VinegarPeppers said:


Quote:


I don’t think the incoming could change the scouts before the draft.

comment 15564049 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Both seem like fine choices.

They are not my worry.

My worry is how much control they will actually have. Will they be allowed to gut the scouting department? Can they really hire the coaches? Can they tell Chris Mara to stay out of personnel issues?





Correct - GM and whoever he brings in with him may change the scoring system and how players are prioritized, but wholesale changes to who is actually doing the scouting is usually not made until the week after the draft.


Either way I am fine so long as the new sheriff gets to make personnel and structural changes. They're going to have ability to tell the scouting directors thanks for your input, but we're doing it my way and I am making the draft selections.

That's the benefit to both Schoen and Peters or Poles here. They've been running intensive draft and scouting processes at other organizations so they know who the college talent is and who they like to fit on the Giants. New HC will have say too.
RE: BleedBlue  
jvm52106 : 1/21/2022 11:08 am : link
In comment 15564097 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I don't know how we can assume anything of the sort.

I'm actually not overly confident that Mara will allow the new GM to run things.
.

Well, perhaps let it play out first..
No one knows  
3rdnlong : 1/21/2022 11:14 am : link
What the candidates specific strategy and plan is. It’s all speculation. I do know the Bills had a great plan to turn things around. They drafted well.
Bigblue7  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:14 am : link
Thanks for your thoughts. Just seemed strange. Flores interviewed with the Texans and Bears and really nothing substantial came out. Just seemed to be a lot of Flores stuff being floated by the beats connecting him to the Giants.
RE: RE: Plenty of reasons to like Peters  
JonC : 1/21/2022 11:17 am : link
In comment 15564202 bigblue5611 said:
Quote:
In comment 15564191 JonC said:


Quote:


if you like sustained success and how the 49ers are built. He's my choice, while I think it's clear their favorite from the start was Schoen.

NYG is not trading for Watson, give it up.



Do you think there is a clear cut winner between the two? Or better phrased, do you see a big enough gap between the two where it would be a big regret should they go with Schoen over Peters?


Tough to say, I can only offer my opinion ... I like the Bills makeup a great deal, and Schoen was reportedly part of the lovefest for Josh Allen. NYG needs a top QB badly. I prefer the makeup of the 49ers and especially their defense better than the Bills, but the Bills offense gets the edge.

So now I'm drifting into coaching hires, schemes to be implemented, etc. Anyway, I think both are excellent options. Not so sure about Flores tho, he's got a bit of problem child, apparently.
RE: Anybody else finding it strange  
AcesUp : 1/21/2022 11:20 am : link
In comment 15564203 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
that no one has been hired yet from all the teams looking? I wonder how this is all playing out behind the scenes.

Maybe the Giants are in the drivers seat here and the dominos start falling after they make their decision. Usually teams seem to close fast when they like someone.


It's definitely a little weird. I think a lot of variables account for that - a lot of candidates have teams in playoffs, several GM searches going on as well and teams in general just being more patient.
RE: *  
eric2425ny : 1/21/2022 11:20 am : link
In comment 15564062 Producer said:
Quote:

I hope we get the smartest, most forward thinking guy who doesn't rely on cliches and truisms to do his job. That's what I hope.

Get the snartest guy, not the most footballiest guy.


Agreed. No “hog mollie” talk in the first presser.
RE: RE: BleedBlue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/21/2022 11:20 am : link
In comment 15564180 VinegarPeppers said:
Quote:
I don’t think the incoming could change the scouts before the draft.


Probably not. But moving forward after the draft, they need to clean house. If the Maras let the new GM do so.

I see a lot of optimism here that the new GM will be given carte blanche. I don't know where this optimism is coming from.
jvm52106  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/21/2022 11:21 am : link
I've been letting it "play out" for the past decade.
I don't doubt that Mara meant it when he said  
Mike from Ohio : 1/21/2022 11:21 am : link
the new GM will have carte blanche to do what he wants. But I also think people are underestimating how difficult it is for someone to surrender power when they are in the cross hairs of the decisions being made.

At some point this year or in the near future some draft choice or free agent signing will catch a bunch of flack from the press and fans. Can Mara stand aside and let the new GM work through it, or will he feel like he screwed up again and rush in to fix it before he is being shredded in the press again?

I think Mara may try to give up authority, I'm just not sure someone used to being in charge with such thin skin can keep himself out of it.
I'll bet Tisch wants Peters and Mara wants Schoen  
MartyNJ1969 : 1/21/2022 11:22 am : link
this is the battle
RE: RE: RE: Plenty of reasons to like Peters  
bigblue5611 : 1/21/2022 11:23 am : link
In comment 15564252 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15564202 bigblue5611 said:


Quote:


In comment 15564191 JonC said:


Quote:


if you like sustained success and how the 49ers are built. He's my choice, while I think it's clear their favorite from the start was Schoen.

NYG is not trading for Watson, give it up.



Do you think there is a clear cut winner between the two? Or better phrased, do you see a big enough gap between the two where it would be a big regret should they go with Schoen over Peters?



Tough to say, I can only offer my opinion ... I like the Bills makeup a great deal, and Schoen was reportedly part of the lovefest for Josh Allen. NYG needs a top QB badly. I prefer the makeup of the 49ers and especially their defense better than the Bills, but the Bills offense gets the edge.

So now I'm drifting into coaching hires, schemes to be implemented, etc. Anyway, I think both are excellent options. Not so sure about Flores tho, he's got a bit of problem child, apparently.


Gotcha. I'm wary of Flores as well given what's come out of Miami about his ouster there. Maybe he'll learn his lesson for the second go around but who knows.

I like the way both Bill and 49ers are built. For me I don't see that much of a gap between their defenses to give that much sway to Peters but that's just me... On offense I agree that the Bills definitely get the edge there by a good margin with much thanks to Allen on that.

I honestly haven't read a whole lot about Peters, has he had a big hand in things as much as Schoen? I know one of the things I really liked about Schoen is being instrumental in the Bills analytics department.
RE: ...  
mittenedman : 1/21/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15564014 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
keep in mind, McDaniel doesn't call the plays for SF. Shanahan does. McDaniel could take the OC role here instead of HC, and it would be a promotion for him.

A Ryans/McDaniel pairing would be fantastic.


That's exactly how we got Graham, here. We could make Mike McDaniel Assistant HC/Offensive Coordinator and give him full control over the offense, rather than catering to Shanahan. Shanny would still have to let him go IIUC.
RE: I don't doubt that Mara meant it when he said  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:25 am : link
In comment 15564267 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
the new GM will have carte blanche to do what he wants. But I also think people are underestimating how difficult it is for someone to surrender power when they are in the cross hairs of the decisions being made.

At some point this year or in the near future some draft choice or free agent signing will catch a bunch of flack from the press and fans. Can Mara stand aside and let the new GM work through it, or will he feel like he screwed up again and rush in to fix it before he is being shredded in the press again?

I think Mara may try to give up authority, I'm just not sure someone used to being in charge with such thin skin can keep himself out of it.


If the team is showing signs or really turning it around and wins follow I think he will be fine. Hopefully some fans show up with "Keep staying out of things Mara's" when things get better.
RE: RE: I really like Pole  
bLiTz 2k : 1/21/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15563981 BLUATHRT said:
Quote:
In comment 15563974 UberAlias said:


Quote:


But it feels like they have it narrowed down to the correct two.



You should probably add the (s)


LOLL
RE: I'll bet Tisch wants Peters and Mara wants Schoen  
TroyArchersGhost : 1/21/2022 11:33 am : link
In comment 15564269 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
this is the battle

I think you’re right. Peters wants more independence, and that’s the rub. Just a guess.
tea leaves...  
mittenedman : 1/21/2022 11:41 am : link
GM: Peters
HC: Flores
AHC/OC: McDaniel
I have a friend that worked for the Giants  
Walker Gillette : 1/21/2022 11:43 am : link
from roughly 10 years 91-01 and he says that Young and Accorsi basically had a free hand, While there were guys in there that the Maras put in the two GMs made the decisions. That's a long time ago now and who knows how much things have changed but at least John Mara saw that his father had let those guys run and it brought success. If he is at wits end we can only hope that he lets that happen again
RE: I Think It Will Be Peters  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/21/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15564224 pa_giant_fan said:
Quote:
And with Flores as his top choice, just might be the coach the Giants prefer.


Cant Go Wrong with either Peters or Schoen, but I would also prefer Peters with Flores as HC
RE: tea leaves...  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15564326 mittenedman said:
Quote:
GM: Peters
HC: Flores
AHC/OC: McDaniel


I like your line of thinking. Flores gets the D in order and overall direction of the team and we implement the Niner style of running game on offense. Perfect for a rookie QB; a offense that goes through the running game with PA and movement.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Plenty of reasons to like Peters  
JonC : 1/21/2022 11:46 am : link
In comment 15564271 bigblue5611 said:
Quote:
In comment 15564252 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15564202 bigblue5611 said:


Quote:


In comment 15564191 JonC said:


Quote:


if you like sustained success and how the 49ers are built. He's my choice, while I think it's clear their favorite from the start was Schoen.

NYG is not trading for Watson, give it up.



Do you think there is a clear cut winner between the two? Or better phrased, do you see a big enough gap between the two where it would be a big regret should they go with Schoen over Peters?



Tough to say, I can only offer my opinion ... I like the Bills makeup a great deal, and Schoen was reportedly part of the lovefest for Josh Allen. NYG needs a top QB badly. I prefer the makeup of the 49ers and especially their defense better than the Bills, but the Bills offense gets the edge.

So now I'm drifting into coaching hires, schemes to be implemented, etc. Anyway, I think both are excellent options. Not so sure about Flores tho, he's got a bit of problem child, apparently.



Gotcha. I'm wary of Flores as well given what's come out of Miami about his ouster there. Maybe he'll learn his lesson for the second go around but who knows.

I like the way both Bill and 49ers are built. For me I don't see that much of a gap between their defenses to give that much sway to Peters but that's just me... On offense I agree that the Bills definitely get the edge there by a good margin with much thanks to Allen on that.

I honestly haven't read a whole lot about Peters, has he had a big hand in things as much as Schoen? I know one of the things I really liked about Schoen is being instrumental in the Bills analytics department.


I don't have answers to your last question, other than to say word is Peters has been in charge of drafting and that's the bloodline of a football program and pipeline for sustained success.

Bills defense is built more like the Rams, strong up the middle, talented backend. 49ers are stronger up front in the seven and through the middle of the backend, more old school punishing mentality in SF. That's what I like, they dictate to and wear out the opponent's offense.
Walker Gillette  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:47 am : link
I think that was the way though I think TC had very big input early on and being that was Wellington's hire. Something definitely changed in the 2009/10 timeframe imv and continued thereafter.
RE: Walker Gillette  
Walker Gillette : 1/21/2022 11:51 am : link
In comment 15564355 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I think that was the way though I think TC had very big input early on and being that was Wellington's hire. Something definitely changed in the 2009/10 timeframe imv and continued thereafter.


Certainly seems like something has gone awry, very well could be too much interference, success sometimes makes people think they are too smart. It also could be bad hires after the two "great" GMs. In any case if Mara is now searching for a new way, hopefully he remembers what worked back in the day
RE: Go with Peters!  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/21/2022 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15564011 Chris684 said:
Quote:
He clearly blew their socks off yesterday.

By all accounts this was Schoen's job wrapped up early on and I honestly think we would have heard a decision yesterday if it wasn't for Peters.

Clearly?
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