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Sell me against Dan Quinn as HC

Jim in Forest Hills : 1/21/2022 10:27 am
Obviously I like him as a candidate. I like that he coached a team, has a winning record, went to the playoffs and won games. I like that he ran a top defense in SEA. I like that he really turned that DAL defense and he looked like he was having a ball doing it.

What is it about him or his resume that deters you?
I like  
Straw Hat : 1/21/2022 10:29 am : link
Him too. Not my top candidate, but wouldnt be upset if we hired him. People dont like that he is supposed to be a defensive guru, but his atlanta defenses sucked. Also the superbowl collapse doesnt sit well.
everyone  
TommyWiseau : 1/21/2022 10:30 am : link
just remembers his collapse in the Super Bowl. That is why they hate him
I'd rather  
JohninSC : 1/21/2022 10:30 am : link
have an offensive minded head coach.
...  
BleedBlue : 1/21/2022 10:30 am : link
he was a large part of the 25 pt lead blown in the biggest game on the biggest stage.

I think his defense is wildly overrated and he has always had great personnel. In fairness, not many coaches have been great with dogshit players but overall, no sure he is the guy id want.

To me, if you want an offensive mind who is forward thinking you take mcdaniel or daboll

If you want a shot at watson and a defensive mind you take flores.

For me one of those 3 will be the next giants Head coach
I think most of the responses you'll see  
Chris684 : 1/21/2022 10:31 am : link
will go back to his Super Bowl loss.

It's tough to hang one game on someone but when you're talking about NFL Head Coaches, owning any loss in that game is hard to overcome (as Jim Fassel found out) let alone probably the greatest meltdown ever.
That SB loss was tough  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/21/2022 10:33 am : link
when I watched that game I blamed Ryan for taking that dumb sack in FG range. But yeah I guess run the ball.
He's shown he can win with the right personnel  
Simms11 : 1/21/2022 10:35 am : link
and Coordinators in place. Last few years were not great and his final year, of course led to his dismissal.
28-3  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/21/2022 10:36 am : link
I mean, what are we doing here?
Poor in-game management  
AcesUp : 1/21/2022 10:36 am : link
Remember how frustrating Judge was in this respect? Quinn was the poster child for this with Atlanta. It wasn't just the Super Bowl loss either. That SB year he had Kyle Shannahan, Matt and Mike LeFleur, Mike McDaniel and Raheem Morris on that staff. Once Shanahan left with his guys, the bottom fell out there. How much of that success was because of Shanahan and his guys? He did a poor job replacing them.

It's tough to judge these guys but the things you can see, his resume looks a little flimsier when you dig in. I think he's a talented DC though.
He was never able to  
Dankbeerman : 1/21/2022 10:37 am : link
replace Shanahan. Even though people blame Shanahan for the Super Bowl loss, Quinn has no sucess with out him.
In today's NFL,  
HoodieGelo : 1/21/2022 10:38 am : link
it just won't work. Look at the teams in the playoffs. Overwhelming majority are offensive guys. You need a stud QB and an offensive guru at HC. If you get those two things you're going to be good for a very long time.

Dan Quinn is stale. We need an innovative young offensive guy if we want to stay relevant in this league. The future of the NFL are teams like the Bengals, 49ers, Packers, Rams, Cardinals. Young offensive coaches, stud QB's.
I heard the guys on NFL sirrus radio yesterday  
Pete from Woodstock : 1/21/2022 10:39 am : link
say they liked him to go to Denver. They heard he had put together a great team of coaches.
I don't neccesarily  
NorthCountryGiantsFan : 1/21/2022 10:41 am : link
like the Super Bowl argument. Yeah, the defense allowed the comeback....to the GOAT in his prime, but at the end of the game it was 2 huge Offensive mistakes that cost them. They only things they couldn't allow to happen were an Offsides and a QB sack and Mr Matty "ICE" flopped. There is not one single candidate that is perfect despite this sites constant clamoring for an available coach with a winning record, no in game mistakes, and was a prior head coach...It's a tough choice, retread or pick yet another first time HC...there is no perfect candidate available...
Aces  
JonC : 1/21/2022 10:42 am : link
+1 ... Quinn is a big snore for me, give someone else a shot.
Quinn isn't bad, just not sure he is all that good.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/21/2022 10:43 am : link
Losing Super Bowl in that manner is a crutch, but he kept losing games in somewhat dramatic fashions afterwards as well.

They went to playoffs the following season but lost a bad game at the buzzer to Eagles, then started missing the playoffs for a couple of years, and then started 2000 season off an 0-5 mark with some more bad late 4QTR losses to boot.

And that was it for him in Atlanta...
Questionable  
Toth029 : 1/21/2022 10:45 am : link
I have been wary with him from the start. He would be fine as a DC, however people need to relax with the Dallas situation. Yes, they performed, but that's due to turnovers. That isn't a sustainable stat.

As for Quinn in Atlanta, it's because he, year in and year out, had underperforming defenses and he called plays. Before he was fired, he pushed playcalling duties over to Raheem Morris who did a better job with them. Only one season where his defense was actually above average.

2020: 29th in yards, 19th in points, 32nd in pass defense
2019: 23rd in yards, 19th in points, 23rd in pass defense
2018: 28th in yards, 25th in points, 27th in pass defense
2017: 9th in yards, 8th in points, 12th in pass defense
2016: 25th in yards, 27th in points, 28th in pass defense
2015: 16th in yards, 14th in points, 18th in pass defense
Arguments against  
AdamBrag : 1/21/2022 10:46 am : link
"I like that he coached a team, has a winning record, went to the playoffs and won games" - People made the same arguments to hire Mike McCarthey

When Dan Quinn was successful as a head coach, it was more due to the offense then the defense. That offense had Kyle Shannahan as offensive coordinator and also had Matt Lafleur, Mike Lafleur, and Mike McDaniel on the staff. Once they left, the Falcons got a lot worse.

Teams figured out Quinn's defensive scheme. He significantly adjusted the coverage schemes in Dallas, but a lot of the success of the defense in Dallas was through turnovers, which isn't a stable stat.

Quinn's defensive scheme requires being really successful rushing the passer. When the Falcons couldn't do that, it was a disaster. Hopefully, the Giants can take a step forward in that department next year, but they are still going to lack the personnel to make his scheme work.
He more or less admitted the failings on defense in ATL..  
Racer : 1/21/2022 10:46 am : link
..were being too limited and predictable; as we know he's a Carroll C3 disciple. I give him credit for admitting that he went home in the off-year and scouted not only himself but also what was working for offenses in the NFL.

The multiple sources of praise for the diversity of fronts, back 7 looks and the way he moved Parsons around for example should tell us that he is capable of fixing the problem and is was willing to adapt.

That said, I am very uneasy, even in my own life, of the 'Mayor of Positive Town' types. Reminds me of "I saw a lot of positives, and we just need to clean things up" from the last 2 seasons here. I listened to Quinn on Sirius doing his spot with Kirwan and Miller for his entire tenure in ATL, and I was very uncomfortable thinking about that guy in front of my own team's meeting room in rough times.
Have a bunch of friends that are Falcons fans  
BigBlue7 : 1/21/2022 10:47 am : link
all seem to think Quinn is a good coach, but Thomas Dimitroff was perhaps the worst overrated GM in the NFL for a long time.

Couldn't build an offensive line, couldn't draft good pass rushers.

Sound familiar?
He seems to be an adequate, safe choice  
Mike from Ohio : 1/21/2022 10:48 am : link
He does not seem like a guy who will be here for 10 years and win multiple superbowls. His time in Atlanta was ok, but it is hard to not think of him coaching a team to an epic collapse on the biggest stage through shear stupidity.

He seems like a very good DC who should remain a very good DC.
RE: Poor in-game management  
Johnny5 : 1/21/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15564143 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Remember how frustrating Judge was in this respect? Quinn was the poster child for this with Atlanta. It wasn't just the Super Bowl loss either. That SB year he had Kyle Shannahan, Matt and Mike LeFleur, Mike McDaniel and Raheem Morris on that staff. Once Shanahan left with his guys, the bottom fell out there. How much of that success was because of Shanahan and his guys? He did a poor job replacing them.

It's tough to judge these guys but the things you can see, his resume looks a little flimsier when you dig in. I think he's a talented DC though.

I agree. I do like Quinn though as a candidate. But I'm terrified of all of the guys being talked about being terrible... including Quinn.... lol
there are a lot of reasons to like Quinn  
SirYesSir : 1/21/2022 10:50 am : link
My only hesitation would be that if you really want to change the tone of the organization, then you hire an offensive guy who's tapped into the modern game.

Offense is a much quicker way to relevancy these days.

With that said, if he hires an OC that fits that bill and lets him do his thing, then it's still hard to argue against him
28-3  
Ben in Tampa : 1/21/2022 10:51 am : link
34-28
Offense trumps defense  
Producer : 1/21/2022 10:56 am : link
in todays NFL.
Why would you choose him ahead of Doug Pedersen?  
Gruber : 1/21/2022 11:00 am : link
.
I think  
Steve in Greenwich : 1/21/2022 11:01 am : link
I probably like him more than most, but in general I'm not a fan of most of the head coach candidates in this cycle. To me I think there is a lot to be taken from a retread coach who actually had a lot of success and failure in their first tenure. No one is perfect but this isn't Shurmur, who sucked in Cleveland and sucked here. With Quinn you know he can hire coaches, you can say his success was tied to Shanahan and he didn't win without him but the reality was when Shanahan left he also lost both the LaFleur brothers and Mike McDaniel with him. That is a lot of brain power from the offensive side to be lost, obviously seeing in retrospect what each of those guys would go on to do.

It takes a little humbling when you get fired to understand that you weren't always right, and hopefully makes you better. It scares me when a guy like Flores gets fired and immediately hired similar to Mangini; that doesn't humble you the way taking a demotion and restart does. I do fully recognize that I wouldn't have thought in a million years a lot of these hot shot offensive minds who have a non-existent resume as would have the success they have been having so far, so what the hell do I know?
RE: 28-3  
NINEster : 1/21/2022 11:04 am : link
In comment 15564183 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
34-28


Modern NFL.

The Seahawks came back from a 34-0 halftime pasting against the Panthers down to a 34-27 nail biter the year prior in the playoffs.

With how the current game is rigged for offense, I think it's super challenging to maintain huge leads against good teams, especially if you built the lead up fast. No 25 point lead was ever made with consistent 9 minute drives one after another.

Human nature, or being tired, or whatever, it's tough. And the Patriots caught some big momentum swinging breaks in that game too.

The team tanked after Shanahan left  
Sean : 1/21/2022 11:04 am : link
.
I think what everyone is overlooking  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/21/2022 11:05 am : link
is the fact that he got to the Super Bowl. Shannahan has just as much to do with that blown lead as Quinn does. Should Quinn have stepped in and told him to run the damn ball? Yes, but Shannahan was calling the plays and helped get them to that point. There is no perfect HC out there right now. They're all employed. There is something to be said about a HC that has had success at this level over a could be in an OC or DC. Harbaugh or Quinn for me is the best option.
RE: Why would you choose him ahead of Doug Pedersen?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/21/2022 11:16 am : link
In comment 15564212 Gruber said:
Quote:
.


Pederson is interesting for sure, perhaps an even greater case can be made for hiring him. For me its that he tried to lose the game (unless he was pressured to by mgmt). I think at that point he lost the team (like Judge and his sneaks). I would never hire Judge due to that single fact again.

At the very mountaintop of leadership this is just not acceptable imo.
He did a really good job in Dallas  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:20 am : link
One thing that was highlighted was that he objectively looked at how he viewed defense and made adjustments. I think that speaks well to him. He also has done something only a very small percentage of coaches have done getting a team to a SB.

Lots of things will impact how he does the second time. He already showed he can put together a staff and win with talent. Who knows if he can replicate that again but I think franchises will like he has shown that.
Here you go:  
Sy'56 : 1/21/2022 11:23 am : link
Quinn is a defensive coach

His early down success rate defensively:

2015: 31st
2016: 27th
2017: 30th
2018: 29th
2019: 30th (10 weeks)

And they were arguably the worst 2nd half team in the NFL over that span.
RE: I think what everyone is overlooking  
Johnny5 : 1/21/2022 11:25 am : link
In comment 15564226 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
is the fact that he got to the Super Bowl. Shannahan has just as much to do with that blown lead as Quinn does. Should Quinn have stepped in and told him to run the damn ball? Yes, but Shannahan was calling the plays and helped get them to that point. There is no perfect HC out there right now. They're all employed. There is something to be said about a HC that has had success at this level over a could be in an OC or DC. Harbaugh or Quinn for me is the best option.

I agree, I feel the same way. I actually like Harbaugh best... but they all give me hope and yet absolutely terrify me at the same time. lol
He is a demonstrably stupid technician that costs his team wins...  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/21/2022 11:57 am : link
Here's a couple of regular season examples.

WaPo 10/23/16: Falcons’ Dan Quinn makes terrible call in overtime against Chargers

Dan Quinn inexplicably didn't challenge an obvious missed call and it backfired spectacularly

He also has a pattern of 2nd half collapses in games and collapses in the second half of the season. That tells me he might be good at prepping, but cannot adapt and think on his feet.

Five Moments That Defined Dan Quinn’s Falcons Tenure

We could definitely do worse,  
Section331 : 1/21/2022 12:03 pm : link
but he had the luxury of a HOF-caliber QB, and for a defensive coach, his defenses were often pretty bad. He was also prone to some befuddling in-game decisions.

Like I said, we could do worse, he had 2 playoff teams in his tenure, but his head was on the block any number of times in his last few seasons. Management thought his teams were under achieving.
I can sell you why...  
bw in dc : 1/21/2022 12:08 pm : link
Quinn is a terrific coordinator.

I can't sell you why he should be the HC.
RE: Have a bunch of friends that are Falcons fans  
Angel Eyes : 1/21/2022 1:59 pm : link
In comment 15564170 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
all seem to think Quinn is a good coach, but Thomas Dimitroff was perhaps the worst overrated GM in the NFL for a long time.

Couldn't build an offensive line, couldn't draft good pass rushers.

Sound familiar?

Did Gettleman even try?
Some guys are just coordinators  
BlueHurricane : 1/21/2022 2:18 pm : link
In my opinion Quinn is one.
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