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Minny reporter provides data why Eli was great

Producer : 1/21/2022 11:33 am
Longish twitter thread with compelling data arguing Eli's greatness in his prime.

Follow the link.


Prime Eli was great - ( New Window )
Good stuff  
Johnny5 : 1/21/2022 11:39 am : link
And all great points, that most of us already feel, I'm sure. He absolutely was the greatest Giants QB of my lifetime. And if we didn't let the OL fall to pieces, he still had at least 3-5 great years in him after 2011. IMO. The Giants wasted much of his prime years after 2011.
Eli and Strahan  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/21/2022 11:41 am : link
did a great disservice to the Giants, who stupidly thought they could replace them with someone similar. A big reason for 10+ wilderness years.
Pretty Good COnsidering He Never Had Much Success Against Minny  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/21/2022 11:42 am : link
Darren Sharper terrorized Eli in particular. Remember 2 straight years Eli suffered a turnover fest at the hands of the Vikings. Wonder what it was that the Vikes seemed to come up with a great plan against Eli each time
I think the statistical argument for Eli doesn't get made enough  
Producer : 1/21/2022 11:43 am : link
That's why I think this is important.
RE: Pretty Good COnsidering He Never Had Much Success Against Minny  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/21/2022 11:44 am : link
In comment 15564334 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
Darren Sharper terrorized Eli in particular.


Darren Sharper terrorized a lot of people... fuck that guy.
i literally walk away from people  
djm : 1/21/2022 11:46 am : link
who bash Eli or question his peak level of play.

Do not engage. This twitter link is all one needs to see. If they won't want to, let them live in the world of stupid
I would argue with his contention that Eli  
Section331 : 1/21/2022 11:48 am : link
did nothing after 2012 (I'd move it to 2015, wasn't his fault the OL and D sucked), but otherwise a great read. I've always felt that TC/KG's downfield attack hurt Eli's traditional QB metrics, but he does a good job of using advanced stats to show just how effective Eli was.
RE: i literally walk away from people  
Section331 : 1/21/2022 11:50 am : link
In comment 15564354 djm said:
Quote:
who bash Eli or question his peak level of play.

Do not engage. This twitter link is all one needs to see. If they won't want to, let them live in the world of stupid


Some people just love to hate Eli. Whether it's the SD draft thing, or his goofy persona, they will never acknowledge he was even a good QB, no less a great one. But there are those who didn't see Eli week-in and week-out and will look at his stats and say "what's the big deal?". They can be persuaded.
RE: I would argue with his contention that Eli  
Producer : 1/21/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15564361 Section331 said:
Quote:
did nothing after 2012 (I'd move it to 2015, wasn't his fault the OL and D sucked), but otherwise a great read. I've always felt that TC/KG's downfield attack hurt Eli's traditional QB metrics, but he does a good job of using advanced stats to show just how effective Eli was.


Totally true about his deep game hurting some metrics. There is a tipping point where going deep leads to enough bad results that it hurts the team. But peak Eli was on the winning side of that continuum.
Thanks for posting  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 11:55 am : link
For those who continually focus on stats in evaluating QB's I hope they noticed the "big throws" and "big moments" comments. That is what you want in the next Giants QB.

Agree, it is a travesty how the Giants wasted Eli's backend of career. No doubt he and TC with the right parts put up another chip.

The move to the WC offense in 2014 was the end. They never identified the deeper and correct issues impacted the team.
RE: Pretty Good COnsidering He Never Had Much Success Against Minny  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/21/2022 11:56 am : link
In comment 15564334 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
Darren Sharper terrorized Eli in particular. Remember 2 straight years Eli suffered a turnover fest at the hands of the Vikings. Wonder what it was that the Vikes seemed to come up with a great plan against Eli each time

Eli made pre-snap reads and assumptions. So if a D does something quirky it sometimes caught Eli off guard, like a fire zone blitz where a lineman drops into coverage or a safety like Sharper can show a pre snap coverage and then roll over to another coverage shell. Plus Sharper likely had a Roethlisburger-like evil cunning.
RE: RE: i literally walk away from people  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/21/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15564380 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15564354 djm said:


Quote:


who bash Eli or question his peak level of play.

Do not engage. This twitter link is all one needs to see. If they won't want to, let them live in the world of stupid



Some people just love to hate Eli. Whether it's the SD draft thing, or his goofy persona, they will never acknowledge he was even a good QB, no less a great one. But there are those who didn't see Eli week-in and week-out and will look at his stats and say "what's the big deal?". They can be persuaded.


I have a brother who is 11 years older than me and never could stand Eli. Loves Simms. Hated his "goofy" face and lack of fiery persona.

He also hate the modern NFL game and misses Jack Lambert. To each their own I suppose.

I think Eli was the best Giants QB of all time.

A lot of moments  
Toth029 : 1/21/2022 11:59 am : link
Non-Giants fans act like the Giants always had terrific defenses when in reality they didn't. Just imagine if guys like Nicks and Cruz didn't have their careers ended prematurely.
RE: RE: RE: i literally walk away from people  
Producer : 1/21/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15564422 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 15564380 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 15564354 djm said:


Quote:


who bash Eli or question his peak level of play.

Do not engage. This twitter link is all one needs to see. If they won't want to, let them live in the world of stupid



Some people just love to hate Eli. Whether it's the SD draft thing, or his goofy persona, they will never acknowledge he was even a good QB, no less a great one. But there are those who didn't see Eli week-in and week-out and will look at his stats and say "what's the big deal?". They can be persuaded.



I have a brother who is 11 years older than me and never could stand Eli. Loves Simms. Hated his "goofy" face and lack of fiery persona.

He also hate the modern NFL game and misses Jack Lambert. To each their own I suppose.

I think Eli was the best Giants QB of all time.


I'm probably your brother's age. Jack Lambert was a great player, though i hated him. Phil Simms was excellent in his prime.

Eli Manning is the greatest QB in Giants history, goofy face and all. And it isn't close.
Good stuff.  
bceagle05 : 1/21/2022 12:01 pm : link
The completion percentage/QB rating always drives me crazy. Most offenses emphasize the short passing game, so QBs throw screens, slants and hitches all day and complete a high percentage of them. It all looks good on paper. Eli played in a Coughlin/Gilbride offense that emphasized big plays in the passing game - of course the completion percentage would be lower, QB rating would be lower, and the turnovers would be up a bit. We all remember all the "chuck and duck" that went on - and it wasn't certainly effective with a good OL that could protect. Some of Eli's best games include an INT or two or a QB rating in the 80s or 90s. Just a different philosophy.
RE: A lot of moments  
bceagle05 : 1/21/2022 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15564434 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Non-Giants fans act like the Giants always had terrific defenses when in reality they didn't. Just imagine if guys like Nicks and Cruz didn't have their careers ended prematurely.

Yeah, that's another one that gets me too - Eli was carried by the defense! I believe he played with one top 10 defense in his career - the McAdoo playoff season with the big spending spree. The 2007 defense was ranked middle of the pack, and 2011 was near the bottom of the league.

The .500 record is another. It would be a lot more damning for Eli if the Giants went 8-8 every year of his career, but they were well over .500 in the first half and well below in the second half. Did he just forget how to play at age 32? It's obvious the franchise just fell apart.

I could go on and on. We all know he's far from perfect but he deserves better treatment than he gets.
RE: RE: RE: RE: i literally walk away from people  
Johnny5 : 1/21/2022 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15564439 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15564422 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


In comment 15564380 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 15564354 djm said:


Quote:


who bash Eli or question his peak level of play.

Do not engage. This twitter link is all one needs to see. If they won't want to, let them live in the world of stupid



Some people just love to hate Eli. Whether it's the SD draft thing, or his goofy persona, they will never acknowledge he was even a good QB, no less a great one. But there are those who didn't see Eli week-in and week-out and will look at his stats and say "what's the big deal?". They can be persuaded.



I have a brother who is 11 years older than me and never could stand Eli. Loves Simms. Hated his "goofy" face and lack of fiery persona.

He also hate the modern NFL game and misses Jack Lambert. To each their own I suppose.

I think Eli was the best Giants QB of all time.




I'm probably your brother's age. Jack Lambert was a great player, though i hated him. Phil Simms was excellent in his prime.

Eli Manning is the greatest QB in Giants history, goofy face and all. And it isn't close.

Not sure where I fall in age but I remember Lambert. He and Mike Webster were two of the greatest players I ever watched, even though I was pretty young then... lol. I loved Phil Simms, is and always will be one of the greatest Giants. But Eli was better IMO. That SF playoff game in 2011 will be imprinted on my brain until I die. Yes I am biased that 2011 run was the greatest run by a QB ever, IMO.
great stuff right there  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/21/2022 12:19 pm : link
The "Big Time Throw" part of his comments and how that showed up in "Clutch" moments is what always stood out about Eli for me.

Specifically, Eli was excellent at making "Big Time Throws" outside the hashes. This particular skill made him so dangerous late in the game when defenses are trying to keep everything towards the middle of the field.

Eli is one of the strangest athletes I've ever been a fan of, he had plenty of lows. But he is definitely underrated by those who think he got "lucky" and was just average.
Isn't close my ass  
Greg from LI : 1/21/2022 12:33 pm : link
They didn't play pattycake defense in the 80s
The team fell off a cliff by the end of 2012  
exiled : 1/21/2022 1:07 pm : link
Less than a year after the SB win. Eli was in his prime, just coming off an MVP-caliber season. It’s a shame. Eli got all the blame, but the team flat-out sucked. I can think of exactly zero QBs who could’ve had success with those teams.
I can’t read social media on Eli  
PetesHereNow : 1/21/2022 1:27 pm : link
Someone always makes some stupid comment about how he’s a glorified Joe Flacco or some dumb statement like that.

All I know is that from 2005-2011, I woke up every Sunday morning thinking the Giants had a good shot to win. The franchise fell off after 2012, which coincided with the end of Eli’s career.

If the franchise didn’t suck ass from 2012-2019, Eli’s reputation wouldn’t be tarnished by the fact that he couldn’t carry the carcasses of Will Tye, CC Brown, and Reuben Randle to playoff glory.

When you add in the fact that the OL disintegrated after 2011 and none of Nicks, Cruz, Steve Smith, Boss, Beckham stayed healthy, of course the back end of his career isn’t on Eli.
One thing that Eli will never  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/21/2022 2:22 pm : link
get enough credit for is how good of a leader he was. Through all those talent depleted teams he never made excuses. Just lined up the next Sunday and gave it his best. As Strahan said, don't be fooled by his goofiness. He was a stone cold competitor with a killer instinct.

In retrospect, I wonder if he did speak up calling for a OL if things would have went a little differently. Just not his nature. PM, TB would have been kicking in Mara's door.
RE: One thing that Eli will never  
Big Blue '56 : 1/21/2022 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15565050 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
get enough credit for is how good of a leader he was. Through all those talent depleted teams he never made excuses. Just lined up the next Sunday and gave it his best. As Strahan said, don't be fooled by his goofiness. He was a stone cold competitor with a killer instinct.

In retrospect, I wonder if he did speak up calling for a OL if things would have went a little differently. Just not his nature. PM, TB would have been kicking in Mara's door.


I don’t know if Eli spoke up strongly enough about OL help or even at all. One thing’s for certain, Peyton would have MADE SURE the OL was good.
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