Just from reading, it would seem the two Brians (Flores and Daboll) and DeMeco Ryans are the majority of BBI's favorites to be the next Giants HC, in no particular order.
Clearly, none of us (OK, maybe a couple have a better view) really know what will go into the hiring. None of us will be "in the room."
But on a very surface level, I think at this point my preference, and it's a slight edge, goes to Flores because of his experience and relative success in Miami. I'm still surprised he was let go. He ran the entire operation, and while there were issues, the overall record is leaps and bounds closer to where the Giants need to be within a season or two, tops.
I can see definite pluses for hiring either Daboll (current Bills OC) or Ryans (current Niners DC), both of whom had very nice playoff first round showings. We get to see more this weekend.
I'd be happy with one of these three, coming out of Schoen's process.
Where are you on these three? Are they your top choices and if so, what order? If not, who is it for you, and why, over these three?
Hiring a guy out of Dallas this past season doesn't concern you?
I want no part of that.
Flores seems the best of the choices to me and has some lessons learned to build on with prior experience.
Cons - Never been a HC at any level, needs to find great DC and does not have great QB situation to work with.
Flores is a close 2nd, but only because of his HC experience. If he had losing season with Miami this year or was still Pats DC then I don't think he even gets an interview.
Dan Quinn is the dark horse. Veteran DC with HC experience, including a SB appearance in Atlanta. Limited help on Offense, needs great OC.
McDaniels is the wild card. He has HC experience and is considered the heir apparent in NE. Would he take a shot to lead Papa Bill's favorite football team?
With the Schoen hire, I think it just makes tons of sense to just run it with Daboll. While I don't consider it a pre-requisite, life is a little easier in the NFL for an offensive-minded coach. And while owners are saying the right things now, we'll see what happens if/when some hard decisions need to be made. Having a unified voice from two of your biggest leaders that were in on the ground floor of a similar knockdown/rebuild should go a long way. If you want the Giants to emulate a better, more stable front office, this is the easiest path.
Who would Daboll bring as DC? Who would Ryans bring as OC and DC?
Flores is in the middle somewhere but Quinn has a bigger pool of people who would follow. So far they are doing good.
That's what the focus has to be on: how do we become one of the top scoring offenses in the league.
That's what the focus has to be on: how do we become one of the top scoring offenses in the league.
Agreed. I also think it is easier to assimilate to a new DC as opposed to bringing in a new offense. With the way the league is going, the offense needs to be sustainable.
Every NFC head coach in the playoffs is on the offensive side of the ball.
2. Flores leaves open the possibility of retaining Graham (which I like)
3. I worry defensive minded HC might not want make offensive line the priority in the draft. For the record I want 2 OL in the 1st.
24-25 record in 3 seasons
Highest offensive rank: 15th (2020)
Strength of Schedule going into 2021: .471 (T-27th)
Strength of Schedule going into 2022: .481 (22nd)
If you haven’t guessed, this is Flores resume as HC. Just sayin’
New GM or not, you know the "in over his head" crap is going to start week three if they're 0-3.
Daboll - easy to get excited about but good coordinators do not automatically make good HC's. In fact the highway is littered with them.
Ryans - wasn't he just playing? Same comments as Daboll though if I am taking a chance on a coord, I am leaning towards offense.
So I guess if I have to choose, I go Daboll.
QUINN - no thank you
PEDERSEN - maybe, it is intriguing for sure
That's what the focus has to be on: how do we become one of the top scoring offenses in the league.
How do you become one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Draft Josh Allen. Daboll's previous two short-lived stints as OC with the Dolphins and Chiefs, his offenses were near the bottom of the league.
Coughlin also had already completely taken BC to heights not seen since and he had 4 straight very good years in Jax under his belt. He was a known winner by the time 04 came around. We just got lucky that he had those 2 bad years to round out his tenure because without those bad years he's probably not even available in 04.
If we bring in a 1st time HC it will be because he is a tip flight OC. Dabol/Leftwitch ext.
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The way his offense works shows an understanding of what it takes to score points and win games.
That's what the focus has to be on: how do we become one of the top scoring offenses in the league.
How do you become one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Draft Josh Allen. Daboll's previous two short-lived stints as OC with the Dolphins and Chiefs, his offenses were near the bottom of the league.
What should he have done with Matt Moore, Chadd Henne, Brady Quinn and Matt Cassell? He's penalized because Josh Allen is one of the best in football and gets no credit for how he's developed?
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In comment 15564688 Go Terps said:
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The way his offense works shows an understanding of what it takes to score points and win games.
That's what the focus has to be on: how do we become one of the top scoring offenses in the league.
How do you become one of the top scoring offenses in the league? Draft Josh Allen. Daboll's previous two short-lived stints as OC with the Dolphins and Chiefs, his offenses were near the bottom of the league.
What should he have done with Matt Moore, Chadd Henne, Brady Quinn and Matt Cassell? He's penalized because Josh Allen is one of the best in football and gets no credit for how he's developed?
Allen gets no credit for his talent? The Giants QB situation is closer to what he had with the Chiefs and the Dolphins, than what he has with the Bills. Flores has won with mediocre QB play (and an atrocious OL, that is arguably worse than the Giants).
Daboll has not had success as an OC without Josh Allen. Daboll has not had success as a head coach. Does that mean he won't ever? Certainly not. I'll be rooting for him to succeed if he is the Giants head coach, but his resume is not all that impressive without Josh Allen.
2010: 4th worst in yards; 2nd worst in points with the Browns
2011: 11th worst in yards; 13th worst in points with the Dolphins
2012: 9th worst in yards; worst in points with the Chiefs
I'm inclined to think the chances are greater that the Giants don't have a top 5 QB than those that they do. Statistics would back me up on this one.
Flores won games with below avg. QB play, horrendous OL play, and medicore RBs.
Hey man, as long as you're being fair about things, lol.
Look, there's always questions about who'd be a good head coach and good coordinators aren't always good HC. But to somehow chalk up Daboll as a bad offensive coach who's been propped up by Josh Allen is just not a fair reading of evidence.
Hey man, as long as you're being fair about things, lol.
Look, there's always questions about who'd be a good head coach and good coordinators aren't always good HC. But to somehow chalk up Daboll as a bad offensive coach who's been propped up by Josh Allen is just not a fair reading of evidence.
Speaking of fair reading of evidence, I never once said he was fully responsible for how bad the previous offenses at his prior three jobs were. Nor did I ever call him a "bad offensive coach."
I said that Daboll has not had success as an OC without Josh Allen. I provided statistics to back it up. I also said he has never had success as head coach. He has never been a head coach. Anywhere. The Giants will not have Josh Allen, and the chances are slim they will have a QB close to his talent anytime soon.
Could he be a good coach with the Giants? Sure. But if the Bills had drafted Josh Rosen instead of Josh Allen, Daboll's name would never be in the running. And no, I don't think he's some kind of QB guru that would have turned Rosen into a star too.
I agree with this. The guy has had some success and I'm shocked there is not more buzz about him.
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is a name I wish they would consider.
I agree with this. The guy has had some success and I'm shocked there is not more buzz about him.
Pederson would be excellent. I don't know how you could not be impressed by a guy who won a QB against Belichick/Brady with a backup QB
24-25 record in 3 seasons
Highest offensive rank: 15th (2020)
Strength of Schedule going into 2021: .471 (T-27th)
Strength of Schedule going into 2022: .481 (22nd)
If you haven’t guessed, this is Flores resume as HC. Just sayin’
That's why he fired 3 offensive coordinators. And you conveniently left out 9 -7 (2020), and 9-8 (2021). The man got chicken salad out of chicken shit. He is a good coach.
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that are truly terrible. He's totally responsible for how bad those offenses are. On the flip side, Buffalo's current success is all Josh Allen despite most evaluators noting that Allen was pretty raw coming out of college.
Hey man, as long as you're being fair about things, lol.
Look, there's always questions about who'd be a good head coach and good coordinators aren't always good HC. But to somehow chalk up Daboll as a bad offensive coach who's been propped up by Josh Allen is just not a fair reading of evidence.
Speaking of fair reading of evidence, I never once said he was fully responsible for how bad the previous offenses at his prior three jobs were. Nor did I ever call him a "bad offensive coach."
I said that Daboll has not had success as an OC without Josh Allen. I provided statistics to back it up. I also said he has never had success as head coach. He has never been a head coach. Anywhere. The Giants will not have Josh Allen, and the chances are slim they will have a QB close to his talent anytime soon.
Could he be a good coach with the Giants? Sure. But if the Bills had drafted Josh Rosen instead of Josh Allen, Daboll's name would never be in the running. And no, I don't think he's some kind of QB guru that would have turned Rosen into a star too.
Heh, you provided statistics but left out the names of the QBs that were available. It's intellectually dishonest to leave that context out for his time with the Browns, Fins and Chiefs but then disregard the success he's had developing Allen.
The context for both his success and lack of success matters. And yes, the Giants aren't getting Allen anytime soon. But even fucked up Daniel Jones is better than the shitty QBs who helped generate the statistics you cited - that's how bad a QB situation that was for those teams.
I'm gonna drop this anyway. I probably prefer Flores, tbh (assuming the FO is comfortable with him getting run out of town coming off a winning season). I just thought your anti Daboll argument was pretty weak. If the Giants decide on Daboll, I won't be unhappy.
24-25 record in 3 seasons
Highest offensive rank: 15th (2020)
Strength of Schedule going into 2021: .471 (T-27th)
Strength of Schedule going into 2022: .481 (22nd)
If you haven’t guessed, this is Flores resume as HC. Just sayin’
He won 5 games in a season where the Dolphins were tanking and traded away a ton of good players. Then 2 straight winning seasons with below avg QB play, horrid OL play, and medicore RBs.
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In comment 15565136 Heisenberg said:
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that are truly terrible. He's totally responsible for how bad those offenses are. On the flip side, Buffalo's current success is all Josh Allen despite most evaluators noting that Allen was pretty raw coming out of college.
Hey man, as long as you're being fair about things, lol.
Look, there's always questions about who'd be a good head coach and good coordinators aren't always good HC. But to somehow chalk up Daboll as a bad offensive coach who's been propped up by Josh Allen is just not a fair reading of evidence.
Speaking of fair reading of evidence, I never once said he was fully responsible for how bad the previous offenses at his prior three jobs were. Nor did I ever call him a "bad offensive coach."
I said that Daboll has not had success as an OC without Josh Allen. I provided statistics to back it up. I also said he has never had success as head coach. He has never been a head coach. Anywhere. The Giants will not have Josh Allen, and the chances are slim they will have a QB close to his talent anytime soon.
Could he be a good coach with the Giants? Sure. But if the Bills had drafted Josh Rosen instead of Josh Allen, Daboll's name would never be in the running. And no, I don't think he's some kind of QB guru that would have turned Rosen into a star too.
Heh, you provided statistics but left out the names of the QBs that were available. It's intellectually dishonest to leave that context out for his time with the Browns, Fins and Chiefs but then disregard the success he's had developing Allen.
The context for both his success and lack of success matters. And yes, the Giants aren't getting Allen anytime soon. But even fucked up Daniel Jones is better than the shitty QBs who helped generate the statistics you cited - that's how bad a QB situation that was for those teams.
I'm gonna drop this anyway. I probably prefer Flores, tbh (assuming the FO is comfortable with him getting run out of town coming off a winning season). I just thought your anti Daboll argument was pretty weak. If the Giants decide on Daboll, I won't be unhappy.
I'm not anti-Daboll. I'm pro-Giants. And I think the Giants are a lot closer to the prior 3 teams Daboll was OC for than the Bills, particularly in QB talent.
Thus, I'd look more at a Flores, who has two straight winning seasons with below average QB play and a terrible OL. Heck, he won 5 games when the Dolphins front office was doing everything they could to lose. And I'd be more interested in a Pederson, who won a SB with a backup QB.
I am not anti-Daboll, but I look at a resume that is pretty mediocre, with the exception of Josh Allen, and I do have concerns as to how successful he will be with the Giants, who won't have such a talent. Sure, he deserves some credit developing Allen.
I'm not saying that Daboll will be a failure if the Giants sign him, but there are certainly things to be concerned about. If they do hire him, I hope my concerns were wrong. I hope he coaches Jones up and he becomes their franchise QB. I hope I feel like a giant idiot for ever having concerns about him.
2010: 4th worst in yards; 2nd worst in points with the Browns
2011: 11th worst in yards; 13th worst in points with the Dolphins
2012: 9th worst in yards; worst in points with the Chiefs
I'm inclined to think the chances are greater that the Giants don't have a top 5 QB than those that they do. Statistics would back me up on this one.
Flores won games with below avg. QB play, horrendous OL play, and medicore RBs.
Anyone can selectively choose the stats the need to prop up their argument. What about since 2012?
Daboll or Ryans please.
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2009 offense: worst in the league in yards, 4th worst in points with the Browns
2010: 4th worst in yards; 2nd worst in points with the Browns
2011: 11th worst in yards; 13th worst in points with the Dolphins
2012: 9th worst in yards; worst in points with the Chiefs
I'm inclined to think the chances are greater that the Giants don't have a top 5 QB than those that they do. Statistics would back me up on this one.
Flores won games with below avg. QB play, horrendous OL play, and medicore RBs.
Anyone can selectively choose the stats the need to prop up their argument. What about since 2012?
How am I selectively choosing stats? Since 2012, he was TE coach with the Pats for three years, OC at Alabama for a year (not too hard to have a good offense there), and with the Bills as OC with Allen.
Again, I took all of his stats as an NFL OC without Allen. They are not good. He didn’t have good QBs. When he had Allen, he has a really good offense. To me that’s a coach that performs to expectations, and not necessarily exceeds them. I do wish he had a better record to be judged on other than the two extremes of bad QBs and an MVP candidate.
I don’t have an argument or an agenda. I have concerns about hiring an OC who has only succeeded in the NFL with an all pro at QB. If the Giants had very good QB, I wouldn’t have those concerns. My only agenda is wanting the Giants to get the best coach possible. I have seen Flores and Peterson exceed expectations as head coaches. I have seen in Daboll’s career him meeting expectations as OC.
How much credit does Daboll deserve for developing Allen? And can he do the same with Daniel Jones and/or the next QB for the Giants should he get ghe job? I don’t know the answer to those. But I don’t see any other QBs that he has developed. If there were multiple QBs, it would be easier to give him credit as a QB guru.
Daboll is exciting because Buffalo is good. You are rolling the dice though with a coordinator. Could be Bill Walsh could be Shurmur.