Eric, I appreciate your concern how the Mara, Tisch and family members manage the Giants. I agree with you that historically “The ride sucks. Hence, the owner needs to hire people who can do the job that he can’t.” Like you, I am concerned, will he?
For the record I am “OK” with Schoen.
What concerns me is the possibility that we as fans may have been led down the primrose path.
Let me give you an example from my corporate experience of over 40 years including ‘C’ level and board experience. Recall how Affirmative Action and other regulations have evolved in such a way that companies now have to post job requisitions/ openings and actively recruit; especially women and minorities. So what did companies do and still do?
They go about business as usual using their network of contacts quietly recruiting who they actually want as candidates (in the house and outside), typically early on and then when they believe they have a candidate they want post a job requisition for anyone to apply for. As such, in many cases the incumbent is identified before the job req is even out there. Just have to “chop wood”, conduct the process and then make public the decision on whom to select.
Yeah, they do all the appropriate interviews and evaluations and have files on record in Personnel to back their claim that they followed “the process” and complied with federal, state and local regulations. Yet, the actual decision was made well beforehand.
This happens in today’s world as well.
Now (to the chagrin of many on your website), I wish to bring up the ESPN_NFL_Transaction website page claiming that Schoen was named GM on the 7th of January (also announced Gettleman and Judge earlier). Where were the comments from the media claiming it was a farce or a mistake? This is ESPN.
Last I looked on Wednesday, it was still posted.
Is it so hard to believe that since Gettleman’s contract was ending, and Judge likely to be gone, that Mara and Tisch did not quietly well in advance began their search secretly ultimately with success and decided that Schoen was their man? Knowing the past and how the fans and some media pundits criticized the Giants for moving too quickly on the last GM and coach searches, is it not possible that Mara and Tisch would decide to use this deceitful method to act out their pride and prejudice like they always have; yet appear to the public as changing their ways?
So the Giants have Schoen. I wish him well. But, let’s not delude ourselves. One has to believe that Peters, Poles, Hortiz and other Giant ‘Candidates’ ultimately will get GM jobs. If they do, we Giant fans will inevitably do a report card compare and contrast. And what if one or more of the other two finalists succeed and Schoen fails? What then? Who will look back and effectively scrutinize how he was hired to begin with?
Regarding the ESPN January 7th transaction page, I cannot help but think where there is smoke there is fire.
I hope I am wrong.
As I posted to bw in dc in another thread, the cynical bastard in me says Schoen was the pre-determined choice, just like Gettleman was four years ago.
They so botched the PR optics of their "search" in December 2017 that they knew they had to have a more professional-looking search in January 2021. Mission accomplished. Nine good candidates. Not rushed. Three received a second round of interviews.
In the end, the guy who was expected to get the job go it.
Do I care?
Only if they picked the wrong freaking guy again. Or perhaps more importantly, if they do not allow him to do his job.
Schoen should be THE guy who hires the new coach. He should be allowed to revamp the entire scouting staff. He should be allowed to run free agency and the draft.
Will he be allowed to do that without one of the Maras interfering? That's the million dollar question.
Frankly, I care far less about the process than the result. And that's depressing, as history suggests a less than perfect outcome.
But change is needed, and in this instance change is of itself likely to be beneficial, even if sub-optimal. Nobody is perfect, and circumstance will also play an unknown role in any GM's success.
At least the guy doesn't appear to be a jabroni.
As I posted to bw in dc in another thread, the cynical bastard in me says Schoen was the pre-determined choice, just like Gettleman was four years ago.
They so botched the PR optics of their "search" in December 2017 that they knew they had to have a more professional-looking search in January 2021. Mission accomplished. Nine good candidates. Not rushed. Three received a second round of interviews.
In the end, the guy who was expected to get the job go it.
Do I care?
Only if they picked the wrong freaking guy again. Or perhaps more importantly, if they do not allow him to do his job.
Schoen should be THE guy who hires the new coach. He should be allowed to revamp the entire scouting staff. He should be allowed to run free agency and the draft.
Will he be allowed to do that without one of the Maras interfering? That's the million dollar question.
+1
you guys keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means
Once Getts was indeed put in place and the articles started flowing, some more fans started understanding, but even many of them liked the DG hire so they were a bit indifferent anyway as to the weak process.
Having a favorite in Schoen, and possibly a very early favorite even before the interviews started doesn't mean they ran yet another sham GM search. The ESPN web page is just perfect add-on for a fan site that loves their conspiracy theories when it comes to the NY Giants...
It's of course not just the medical / training staff, but the type of players drafted and signed via free agency. Were the pre-signing evaluations that poor?
Of course there is some bad luck. I'm not sure a not contact injury such as Barkley's or Martinez' is the fault of the training staff. But how about Golladay? Toney? Jackson? Rudolph? Did the medical / training staff sign off on these guys?
Sometimes it's not very hard to understand why your theory doesn't make any sense.
JoeDonLooney really is getting at was Schoen the pick from the start and the rest if window dressing?
I would say there is a reasonable chance that is correct.
That said, I don't really care if they picked the right guy and let him do his job.
I am optimistic about Schoen (I liked Peters too).
I'm not optimistic that he has been given carte blanche.
I have been looking at the org charts on teams the Giants targeted for GM. It appears the Giants are the only team that the head of Player Personnel reports to the CEO and not the GM.
I have no idea if CM is good or bad at his job, but to me this structure is set up for JM to interfere. Or maybe I am overthinking it.
These next three months are going to reveal a lot about Schoen:
-- Did he really hire his HC.
-- Changes - people/systems - in the personnel department.
-- QB decision on Jones.
-- Barkley decision.
-- How does he create cap space heading into FA.
-- FA strategy.
[quote] IMO stripping him of SVP of Player Personnel would be the leading indicator on whether Schoen will have carte blanche.
I have been looking at the org charts on teams the Giants targeted for GM. It appears the Giants are the only team that the head of Player Personnel reports to the CEO and not the GM.
He's likely also the only head of Player Personnel who is also a team owner.
Sometimes it's not very hard to understand why your theory doesn't make any sense.
Because you alienate your source at the very least (if the org does a 1/2 decenr job at finding the leak) and/or cost your source their job and then that is 1 less resource for you even if they do get a new job, why would they evet help you again or advise/defer to anyone to helping you.
Reporter: Why did you let CM go from his player personnel position?
JS: Because he's been consistently wrong in his player personnel decisions as evidenced by our lousy roster and cap situation.
Reporter: But JM said CM didn't make any of the decisions, but just provided analyses and opinions. Was JM lying?
JS: No, I accept that, but CM's analyses and opinions were off base.
Reporter: For example?
JS: I don't know exactly but there is a website where you can find all of his mistakes. Anyway, look, I will level with you. For all I know he is as good at his job as JM says he is. But CM's last name is Mara and I am afraid that I will give his views undue weight because of that.
Reporter: Really? I think JM and Steve Tisch thought they were getting a strong leader. Are they?
Pat Hanlon: This press conference is over.
Quote:
why not tweet it out and write a story and scoop the other sources? Why would you quietly list it on a transactions page?
Sometimes it's not very hard to understand why your theory doesn't make any sense.
Because you alienate your source at the very least (if the org does a 1/2 decenr job at finding the leak) and/or cost your source their job and then that is 1 less resource for you even if they do get a new job, why would they evet help you again or advise/defer to anyone to helping you.
So let's go with Colonel Mustard in the Kitchen with the lead pipe...
Last I looked on Wednesday, it was still posted.
It really could be as simple as a date typo or some intern trying to be funny, or even a simple mistake. 99% of the time something like that is not a conspiracy theory. This is why I believe the media has left it alone, they also realize it is nothing sinister and really not worth the effort to dig into it.
+1
It's of course not just the medical / training staff, but the type of players drafted and signed via free agency. Were the pre-signing evaluations that poor?
Of course there is some bad luck. I'm not sure a not contact injury such as Barkley's or Martinez' is the fault of the training staff. But how about Golladay? Toney? Jackson? Rudolph? Did the medical / training staff sign off on these guys?
The Kyle Rudolph signing was butchered, especially in light if his injury. But hey! Timmy and Kyle were buddies at N.D., so it's all good! Some expert Timmy is...
Every team in the NFL does it. The Combine should be called the Tampering Bowl. The entire league is there in Indy talking ish.
JoeDonLooney really is getting at was Schoen the pick from the start and the rest if window dressing?
I would say there is a reasonable chance that is correct.
That said, I don't really care if they picked the right guy and let him do his job.
I am optimistic about Schoen (I liked Peters too).
I'm not optimistic that he has been given carte blanche.
No evidence yet but my gut says the same.
Can’t wait for the meltdown in a few years when Schoen is on his 2nd head coach and Mara is about to push him off the plank and insert McDonnell.
When I would hire I'd always know the 1 or 2 candidates that we "pre-picked" and always for good reasons (history, relationships with customer etc), so unless another candidate blew our socks off we stick with it.
Wasn't Schoen the favorite here on BBI back in October/November when it was apparent DG was done?
If the Giants were truly going behind Buffalo's back, they would have been fined and lost draft picks. I do not doubt that they were looking at candidates and doing pre-evals as it had been noted on a few occasions. So were us patrons of BBI.
Sorry, I just cannot get past the NFL tampering rules.
This whole subterfuge conspiracy theory might have some merit if Schoen was someone who previously had ties to the Giants organization. He didn't and it is not like he was the black sheep in a list of candidates that were interviewed.
Schoen came just as qualified (if not more) than the other candidates.
No matter who it was of the 9 candidates, the conspiracies would fly just like this. Just throw out some wild conspiracy theory and insert name and claim the whole thing was already predetermined.