I like the GM choice, but not sure about Daboll as HC. It’s really difficult to determine if it’s him or Josh Allen being an amazing athlete that’s powering that Bills offense. Look at the “wind game” against NE a few months ago. Once throwing was out of the equation it’s like the game was over. Keep in mind the winds aren’t exactly calm at MetLife. They knew what the weather forecast was days in advance and it looked like a different team.
As we are all well aware, there’s no Josh Allen here. We have a Josh Allen size clone named Daniel who stumbles and fumbles when he’s not running head first into defenders like he’s Brandon Jacobs.
At this point I almost prefer a defensive guy like Flores or Frazier. Downside with Frazier is age.
Plus, the league is very much an offensive league and will be even more-so going into the future. As we know, our offense is a HUGE issue; much more-so than our defense. I don't even think it's a question to go with an offensive-minded HC this time.
I'd be optimistic that we're getting the current Daboll with all the wisdom he's accrued, but yes I'd be concerned that he'd flop with a team starting from scratch.
Agreed Jim. It sounds like Schoen had a big role in scouting and drafting Allen so let’s hope that leads to us finding the next “Allen” here in NY. This team needs a spark in the worst way.
It’s almost always the QB making the coordinator look good, not the other way around.
Brian Daboll, Future Head Coach? - ( New Window )
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But we aren't going to win with DJ at QB anyway. So this admin is going to have to find the right guy at QB. Hopeful here.
Agreed Jim. It sounds like Schoen had a big role in scouting and drafting Allen so let’s hope that leads to us finding the next “Allen” here in NY. This team needs a spark in the worst way.
Honestly Allen fell into Buffalo's laps when the teams drafting in front of them that picked QBs chose someone else. The Browns chose Mayfield and Jets Darnold. I will give credit for picking Allen over Rosen who turned into a bust.
The underlying problem on this roster is personnel. Hopefully we got that right going forward with Schoen
I definitely liked reading this:
To Daboll’s credit, they adjusted after. Up until that time they were overly reliant on Allen having a big game. It’s still an Allen-centric offense, as it should be, but pull up the Bills numbers since that game….Singletary has become a bigger part of that offense.
I have no idea if he’ll be a good HC, nobody does since he hasn’t been one, but the guy is a really good OC.
Ps. Every fan base thinks their head coach is a poor in game manager/ makes questionable decisions
That is too optimistic, we'd be lucky to see anything not until the end of year two.
Plus, the league is very much an offensive league and will be even more-so going into the future. As we know, our offense is a HUGE issue; much more-so than our defense. I don't even think it's a question to go with an offensive-minded HC this time.
Probably because felt handcuffed with Tua. I mean he ain't exactly armed & dangerous
The fan base will not be patient, and deep down you know this. It is not in the nature of a fanatic. All this feel good and platitudes will start to be eroded the first time the new coach punts on 4th and 2. And it will continue to snowball until the team is winning big games.
And if you believe that there is not a learning curve for young first time head coaches you are out of touch or obtuse. It takes time to get good at a new job. Period.
To me, that’s a coach that coaches to expectations. It’s also different being a head coach than a coordinator. You can certainly give him some credit for helping to develop Allen and tailoring the offense around his talents, but Allen is the only real good QB he has developed, so by no means is there evidence he is some kind of QB guru just based on that. There is a wide range of outcomes with him as a head coach.
Then I look at a Peterson, who won a SB with a backup QB. I look at Flores, who had two winning seasons with below average QB play and horrible OL play. Heck, he exceeded expectations in the 5-11 season. I am more comfortable with either of those two, particularly if the Giants don’t wind up getting a top QB in the next few years
1) People learn and grow. Daboll most recent stints as OC - in Buffalo and with the Tide - have been highly successful, by any standard. Is pointing to older information actually useful or is it blinding us to how Daboll is emerging as a leading NFL coach? The evidence can be taken both ways.
2) Who exactly was responsible for coaching Allen into an elite QB? Schoen knows. It may have been Daboll. Allen is a very bright and hard working guy, so the formula won’t replicate for every player, but if Daboll had a big hand in it and knows how to do it, we need him in the Giants building right away. That’s an invaluable skill set. Again, Schoen knows.
The HC needs to be someone that can win a SB on that rookie's first contract. This team most times is led by a outstanding D with a balanced offense (very strong run game) and a QB who grows into the position. Pats, Giants, Steelers, Seattle, Eagles are good examples of teams following this formula.
So while the push is to offense keep in mind what actually is going to win big with a rookie. If it Daboll, I hope he has a plan for excelling on that defensive side.
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In comment 15566105 allstarjim said:
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But we aren't going to win with DJ at QB anyway. So this admin is going to have to find the right guy at QB. Hopeful here.
Agreed Jim. It sounds like Schoen had a big role in scouting and drafting Allen so let’s hope that leads to us finding the next “Allen” here in NY. This team needs a spark in the worst way.
Honestly Allen fell into Buffalo's laps when the teams drafting in front of them that picked QBs chose someone else. The Browns chose Mayfield and Jets Darnold. I will give credit for picking Allen over Rosen who turned into a bust.
He didnt fall into their lap. The point is that Bean had Allen #1 on his draft board that year.
Like, #1 overall. And honestly, they were right when the rest of the league didn't even have him as the best QB, much less best player. They did a great job there.
Something I like about Daboll: it’s an offensive league and he will have an offense in place. Most importantly, there is no risk of losing the OC, because Daboll runs the offense.
It seems Flores could never get the offense figured out as he cycled through OC’s. That’s a major concern of mine going with a defensive minded head coach.
Daboll for 3.5 years refuses to commit to the run in Buffalo. Then teams just go all out blitz and shut Josh Allen down. There is rumors of McDermott and Daboll arguing over the run pass ratio, then all of a sudden the Bills committ to a running game and Josh Allen becomes king.
Daboll is stubborn. He found success with Allen. Josh Allen is a superstar. Unless DJ has been hiding his superstardom Daboll will be our 5th straight failure as a HC.
You are right…all these retreads or never coached before are huge ifs (see McAdoo, Shurmur, judge) but Mr Harbaugh is a winner. Pay the man!
1) People learn and grow. Daboll most recent stints as OC - in Buffalo and with the Tide - have been highly successful, by any standard. Is pointing to older information actually useful or is it blinding us to how Daboll is emerging as a leading NFL coach? The evidence can be taken both ways.
2) Who exactly was responsible for coaching Allen into an elite QB? Schoen knows. It may have been Daboll. Allen is a very bright and hard working guy, so the formula won’t replicate for every player, but if Daboll had a big hand in it and knows how to do it, we need him in the Giants building right away. That’s an invaluable skill set. Again, Schoen knows.
I understand everyone grows. Daboll is responsible in large part for coaching Allen and concocting an offense that accentuates his skills. I was very impressed with how Daboll had the Bills running the ball lately, as that was certainly the biggest criticism of the Bills: outside of Allen, they couldn’t run the ball.
But while Daboll did coach Allen, let’s not forget that Allen has some serious talent. It’s a lot like trying to get a coach from the Patriots. Tom Brady makes a lot of coaches look better, as does Aaron Rodgers, as does Mahomes.
If Schoen can hit on a QB like the Bills did with Allen, then great. I think they’ll be fine. But chances are we won’t have a top 5 QB like Allen. So I tend to favor coaches that have outperformed expectations. Daboll has an incomplete resume. He has never been a head coach anywhere. Absent Allen, his career as an OC has consisted of bad offenses on teams you would expect to have bad offenses. Yes, he was a young guy breaking into the league as an OC and took whatever job he could get. I just think it makes it hard to evaluate him.
How will he do if the Giants don’t get a QB with Allen’s talent? I’d have more faith that they can compete with a Pederson or a Flores, because they have a track record of doing so. Daboll doesn’t. He has a lower floor as a head coach because of that IMO
The Judge Giants didn’t have the worst offensive coaching staff and it isn’t even close. Anyone who thinks that is seriously overrating the Giants offensive players. My bet is that there will be 2 offensive players on the 2021 squad still on the roster in 2023. 2.
And the fact that Judge liked Daboll has no bearing on whether Daboll will be a good coach.
Daboll for 3.5 years refuses to commit to the run in Buffalo. Then teams just go all out blitz and shut Josh Allen down. There is rumors of McDermott and Daboll arguing over the run pass ratio, then all of a sudden the Bills committ to a running game and Josh Allen becomes king.
Daboll is stubborn. He found success with Allen. Josh Allen is a superstar. Unless DJ has been hiding his superstardom Daboll will be our 5th straight failure as a HC.
This all may or may not be true. The good thing is our new GM has been in the building with him so I’ll trust what he knows about Daboll and the Bills situation rather than just take your uninformed statements.
Yes for this same reason. Is he a result of Allen or vice versa.
Is he a leader? Is he the right type of personality? Does he know the whole game of football?
At this point in time, where you have an extensive rebuild, I would rather have a HC who seemed to be a good prospective HC but failed at his first attempt than a coordinator who never had the responsibility.
JK
JK
He had a 10th ranked offense with Tyrod Taylor at QB. His offenses have ranked 2nd since Allen blossomed. Why should he get no credit for that?
He’s been a bit of a coaching nomad and there’s been some suggestion he wears on people and is too stubborn. But he’s also added a lot of football knowledge in different spots and is known as a good gameplan mind.
Thanks to any who are willing to go along with me here….
Thanks to any who are willing to go along with me here….
Counter factuals are difficult to analyze. Personally, i am not excited by any of the HC's being mentioned... and that is the biggest hire IMO of the offseason
2) Who exactly was responsible for coaching Allen into an elite QB? Schoen knows. It may have been Daboll. Allen is a very bright and hard working guy, so the formula won’t replicate for every player, but if Daboll had a big hand in it and knows how to do it, we need him in the Giants building right away. That’s an invaluable skill set. Again, Schoen knows.
It's pretty well documented that it's been a team effort in building Allen into a top tier QB - Daboll, Jordan Palmer and Ken Dorsey.
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He’s not a baby. And the fanbase will have patience for a year, as they do, and will expect results year 2, as they should.
The fan base will not be patient, and deep down you know this. It is not in the nature of a fanatic. All this feel good and platitudes will start to be eroded the first time the new coach punts on 4th and 2. And it will continue to snowball until the team is winning big games.
And if you believe that there is not a learning curve for young first time head coaches you are out of touch or obtuse. It takes time to get good at a new job. Period.
There is a honeymoon period for a year. It's happened with every coach we've had here that gone canned year 2. It was all roses the first year, he can learn then. Then fans will expect results, not a Super Bowl or even playoffs, but progression in Year 2. He'll make mistakes and he'll start to feel some heat no question. But the idea that Daboll is this young coordinator is flat out wrong. He's been around and he's paid his dues. He'll have to learn to be a head coach but we're not talking about a Mike McDaniel here.
The whole learning curve thing is implicitly obvious, and like I said, there is a honeymoon period even in NY. But lets not act like these guys are training to blast off into space. They're coaching football, something Daboll has done for decades.