Unless the new GM and coach feel they can bring in a clear upgrade in 2022, I expect Jones to be on the team and competing to start next year if he is cleared medically.
As far as Giants Insider goes unless he's speaking directly to John Mara or Steve Tisch he's getting his information from someone who is somewhat responsible for Daniel Jones being on the Giants in the first place. There were 4 people in the room for each of these interviews. Who is telling people all the GMs liked Jones?
that DJ will play out this coming season (if he plays at all) on his 4th year $8 million and will not have his 5th year picked up. If he plays well then they can work on a new contract. If not, bye bye.
to also like other QBs better. Also, having full debates based on 2nd and 3rd hand information is pointless. I doubt they all expressed their like for him in the same way and to the same degree.
Even if all of them like Jones they may have concerns about his injury and injury history.
Regardless if they like Jones, we need a functional backup QB. We could very easily take a QB they like better than Jones, a backup QB that has a lot of promise that can win some games if Jones gets hurt.
Also, maybe they know if they select a rookie QB this year to start with the oline we have, they are going to look like they choose a bust.
So they can say lets build up the offense and we like Jones. We have not been able to truly judge him because of the oline, the offensive system and his injuries.
Now they build up the offense and he does well, great and if he doesn't they get to say that we liked him and now that we have been able to evaluate him with a competent oline, we are going in another direction.
Gave a full vote of confidence to Josh Rosen saying “he is our guy” when everyone knew they were Taking Kyler Murray #1 overall. If any of the GM candidates said anything less about Jones it would show they have no business being in the NFL.
You don’t go into an interview and rip apart the guys across from you drafted. You don’t start your time with a team by telling a player you haven’t even talked to that his career there is over. There is a ton of downside and no upside.
What Schoen DOES with Daniel Jones will tell you what him and the coach think of him. His words are what he has to say. Does he pick up the 5th year option? Does he not bring in anyone to compete for the job? That will tell me he means this. If he does both, it tells me the jury just came into the court and won’t look at the defendant.
I listen to the podcast, just find him to be arrogant and tends to call out fans with opposing takes on twitter. I appreciate the resource.
As for Jones: I recall something you said after the Eli benching. Something along the lines “there are people who are acting like bigger Eli fans than Giant fans.” I feel this way with Jones.
My concerns with Jones is the fact that going all in on him could be a disaster for the franchise. He has durability concerns and hasn’t produced. Do you think picking up his 5th year option is good? I don’t want to be in QB hell with a ‘maybe’ mediocre QB. Scares me.
I’d rather start new at the position.
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff.
Well said Joe. It's exactly where I am with it. On another thread I said they'd be a meltdown on BBI if the new GM and HC wanted Jones. Here it is only a rumor and we have no HC and it's already started. Everyone needs to let this play out.
doesn’t have that it factor. The ability to elevate his team when needed. He still locks onto to receivers and is poor at processing things going on, as well as having poor pocket presence. I don’t believe that will change that drastically, even with a better Oline. I will say that the only time he’s looked decent, was with Shurmur’s offense. Maybe a scheme change and personnel upgrades could make him a better QB?!
What this means (if true) is that Jones is likely the caretaker QB in 2022, unless another team takes a flyer and trades for him.
And yes, you don't leak out that the guy you want to trade isn't good, or may get cut. Deception has been around football forever (look at McCarthy in Dallas lying to Jerry Jones to get a job).
I seriously doubt Schoen is hitching his ride with DJ
Gave a full vote of confidence to Josh Rosen saying “he is our guy” when everyone knew they were Taking Kyler Murray #1 overall. If any of the GM candidates said anything less about Jones it would show they have no business being in the NFL.
You don’t go into an interview and rip apart the guys across from you drafted. You don’t start your time with a team by telling a player you haven’t even talked to that his career there is over. There is a ton of downside and no upside.
What Schoen DOES with Daniel Jones will tell you what him and the coach think of him. His words are what he has to say. Does he pick up the 5th year option? Does he not bring in anyone to compete for the job? That will tell me he means this. If he does both, it tells me the jury just came into the court and won’t look at the defendant.
Because of his cheap contact and lack of staying candidates. So, of course, they are going to say nice things. Long term plan is probably very different.
And lol at people who still think he is highly graded in the league
In comment 15566411 greatgrandpa said:
[quote] Are mutually exclusive. It may be a moot point anyway. Jones is an injury waiting to happen and once your cervical spine has been injured…. [/
+1. What do you expect these guys to say? Really think they’re going to come out and not the guy.
1 interesting piece of history if hc ends up flores - tannehill trade
when he got to the Dolphins Miami traded Tannehill to Tennessee for a 2020 fourth-round pick along with a 2019 seventh-round pick in exchange for Tannehill and a 2019 sixth-round pick.
that year they ended up trading a 2nd round pick for Rosen who obviously flopped, and mostly riding Fitzpatrick, and ultimately drafting Tua (over Herbert).
obviously there is a lot for Flores to reflect on in terms of how he ran the offenses in the 3 years in Miami, but first on that list is that he gave away Tannehill before he got a chance to coach him.
Translation — all three GM finalists are wise enough to not take a position against a player currently on the roster, and cause unnecessary issues for themselves.
It’s what you expect to hear given the circumstances. He knew before he said yes all the questions. Let’s see how it looks in May. It’s possible DJ is the QB next season. There is no money and might not be a good option in the draft. They will bring in competition though and that won’t be hard to do.
"Marsha, Marsha, Marsha." I just find it not credible that Mara and or Mara/Tisch care more about Daniel Jones than the future of the franchise. And I also do not think Joe Schoen would put his reputation at risk by acquiescing to an ownership demand on who plays QB.
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff. [/quote]
Good post, I agree with you... except for the statement that there are posters who are more Jones fans than Giants fans. I haven't seen any of that whatsoever. But again, good post
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP.".
There's something to be said for you rhetorically asking if a prospective hire should be honest about the state of the roster he would be inhereting and asserting that to do so would be dumb.
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP.".
There's something to be said for you rhetorically asking if a prospective hire should be honest about the state of the roster he would be inhereting and asserting that to do so would be dumb.
Right now, there is little or no alternative so they better "like" him. The cap is a mess and there are too many needs to spend draft picks.
Bingo. My guess is vet backup/competition. Stick w/ Jones for the year and make a call when they can free up cap space.
I also wouldn't be surprised on a later flyer in the draft if there is someone they think they can develop. They need to start taking more shots investing here until they find the right guy.
The idea of “competition for Jones” is somewhat unrealistic
Just who are you going to get. Name someone who is good enough to be a starter who is available. If they are really good enough to be a starter they’re not going to be available or come here as a backup. Sure maybe some bottom five types but they’re not viable options really. I’m glad to have anyone they can find but you have to be realistic about who you can get.
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
Trust the process, where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah….
This ain't a team that is having fistfights on the sidelines. This ain't some clown show organization or something else," Judge said. "You talk about the foundation built. The toughest thing to change in a team, in a club, is the way people think. You understand that? That is the toughest thing. You can get new players. You can have your damn locker room all you want. You have to change how people think. You have to change how they f---ing believe in what you're doing. And they have to trust the process.”
I wouldn’t take the Giants Insider podcast as gospel, a lot of arrogance from Chris Bisignano and he has been proven wrong plenty.
1. Injury history
2. Already year 4 of his rookie deal
3. There has been no production
4. He hasn’t elevated anyone else
I do not get the loyalty to Jones. We also think the front office nailed the Jones pick based on their history everywhere else?
Really? That's such a crap analysis. Tell you what you keep OL, keep the coach, keep the GM, and bring in a best QB in the draft. Tell me that YOU WON'T get the same outcome. It's not Jones!!!
They just hired a GM and gave him FULL AUTHORITY to overhaul the WHOLE ORGANIZATION and you want to tell me it falls on the shoulders of Daniel Jones and he's the problem? Horsecrap!
RE: The idea of “competition for Jones” is somewhat unrealistic
Just who are you going to get. Name someone who is good enough to be a starter who is available. If they are really good enough to be a starter they’re not going to be available or come here as a backup. Sure maybe some bottom five types but they’re not viable options really. I’m glad to have anyone they can find but you have to be realistic about who you can get.
They don’t have to be good enough to be a starter they just have to be better than Jones.
Not very likely but who knows… As good as these candidates sound they were top 3 because of the biases of the front office and because they afford an ability to continue living in an echo chamber.
Wait Joe, you don’t like Daniel Jones?
Pat tell the press Hortiz bombed.
Huh, Me Poles? Jones processing and feel are poor?
Pat tell the press Poles is very young and will be a great GM somewhere else.
This would be very unfortunate, if true.
We've been told it's Chris Mara who has the pipeline to Paul Schwartz, not Hanlon.
Just like the Judge vote of confidence and every other vote of confidence we’ve ever heard only to follow by they coach or player being cast off. Jones has shown very little ability to be a top 20 starter let alone a true franchise qb. He ll likely get this year if he’s healthy and we ll likely see a veteran qb in to push for competition and Jones hit the bench sometime in 2022.
Hard for me to believe Schoen was involved in evaluating Allen as a prospect, watched him carve up the league the past two seasons while making playoff runs and will be happy watching jones miss yet another open receiver while throwing to someone covered and settling for 3 while averaging 16 points a game.
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
Trust the process, where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah….
This ain't a team that is having fistfights on the sidelines. This ain't some clown show organization or something else," Judge said. "You talk about the foundation built. The toughest thing to change in a team, in a club, is the way people think. You understand that? That is the toughest thing. You can get new players. You can have your damn locker room all you want. You have to change how people think. You have to change how they f---ing believe in what you're doing. And they have to trust the process.”
Right, but we jettisoned Gettleman and Timmy Toughnuts. All signs are that we have a good hire in Schoen. Hopefully he brings in the best available coach/staff. At this point it is what it is, we have to let it play out.
Shoen might want to give Jones a chance to compete since by all accounts he’s well respected in the locker room, but if the neck is bad that would be taken off the table.
Jones is viewed as a franchise QB around the league.
Please link the many quotes that say that? I've watched a lot of sports opinion shows/sports radio and I've haven't once heard anyone who played the game say this. I've heard he's been put in a tough situation...but never heard an ex-NFL player say he looks like a franchise QB. He definitely doesn't pass the eye test.
RE: I'm starting to doubt that there will be a competition
It was terrible with Jones...then fell off a cliff. We had to be bottom 3 in red zone offense with DJ...he's a FG waiting to happen. Gano definitely wants DJ as QB.
RE: RE: I'm starting to doubt that there will be a competition
It was terrible with Jones...then fell off a cliff. We had to be bottom 3 in red zone offense with DJ...he's a FG waiting to happen. Gano definitely wants DJ as QB.
We barely sniffed a field goal without Jones, though.
That's kinda George's point on page 1.
This entire offense was minor league. Under Jones it actually scored non-garbage time points. Not nearly enough, but we had absolutely nothing when he was gone.
Nothing. Elite college defenses could probably manage us.
I've never warmed to Jones but he should probably start in 2022
if the top QBs in this draft aren't appealing to Schoen. Jones is cheap for another year. Sign another vet QB who can compete
and/or fill in when Jones inevitably gets dinged up and plan for both guys to be gone in 2023.
more than they like the Giants. That's sounds pretty silly (unless there are some Jones family members on BBI, in which case it would be understandable).
I do think some fans are more patient, especially considering he was dealt a shitty hand (which some refuse to acknowledge).
Besides patience, some feel it would be best for the Giants if Jones succeeded (not a blown high pick and don't need to use another) and felt it was possible based on flashes he showed.
Like always, I'm going to leave it up to the GM and HC to decide. Hopefully the new ones will get it right.
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff.
Good post, I agree with you... except for the statement that there are posters who are more Jones fans than Giants fans. I haven't seen any of that whatsoever. But again, good post [/quote]
I kind of thought there is a chance Sean had me in that category. Maybe I should have stated I agree it might seem like there are fans like that
I wouldn’t take the Giants Insider podcast as gospel, a lot of arrogance from Chris Bisignano and he has been proven wrong plenty.
1. Injury history
2. Already year 4 of his rookie deal
3. There has been no production
4. He hasn’t elevated anyone else
I do not get the loyalty to Jones. We also think the front office nailed the Jones pick based on their history everywhere else?
I disagree on elevating other players. His downfield completion percentage was considered top 10 in the league. I see this as "elevating" his downfield recievers ability to make big plays.
insofar as imo health permitting he's already close to a league average QB (which given the circumstances of talent around him is somewhat of an accomplishment). And I think a lot like Tannehill there's upside for him if could ever find his way to a non-f'd up situation and stay healthy.
before anyone flips their there's a pretty simple statistical baseline for it regardless of opinion (mine included):
by QBR
'21 - 22nd of 31 qualifiers
'20 - 20th of 33
'19 - 18th of 30
if your a QB rating traditionalist Jones (84.3) has almost the exact same career rating as Eli (84.1). with Darius Slayton as the leading receiver over his 3 years. whatever any of us thinks of Jones' talent I don't imagine anyone would argue he was propped up by coaching/talent around him.
Some of those who ranked ahead of Jones by QBR were Hurts, Bridgewater, Tua, Cousins, Wentz, and Garapolo (i'd prefer Jones to those guys for next year if it were a binary choice). Some of the QB's he ranked ahead of who other teams considered starters in their 4th year (or beyond) include Mayfield, Darnold, and Goff. So giving a QB of his statistical track record a 4th year is far from unheard of.
The health and the overall upside are completely legitimate questions so I wouldn't pick up the 5th year option.
If there was a good enough trade return on the table (a la Darnold last year) i'd consider it.
If there's a player graded well available when on the clock I'd pull the trigger and let them compete.
If there's a non-insane trade opp for Wilson or Watson I'd do that.
Because of the injuries I'd try to add the best backup QB possible.
But first and foremost I'd be looking to hire an offensive coordinator with a good track record developing QBs and playcalling because I think in better circumstances Jones can be an above average QB (again a lot like Tannehill). And if not you will need someone like that anyway finding the next QB.
As far as Giants Insider goes unless he's speaking directly to John Mara or Steve Tisch he's getting his information from someone who is somewhat responsible for Daniel Jones being on the Giants in the first place. There were 4 people in the room for each of these interviews. Who is telling people all the GMs liked Jones?
sure... more intelligence rising to the surface on this website
We all know 2022 is a wait and transition year.
I think that the Giants should have abandoned the search to find GMs who agree with BBI.
Is it even remotely possible that the GMs know more than we do?
Really very simple, imv. Not rocket science.
Even if all of them like Jones they may have concerns about his injury and injury history.
Regardless if they like Jones, we need a functional backup QB. We could very easily take a QB they like better than Jones, a backup QB that has a lot of promise that can win some games if Jones gets hurt.
Also, maybe they know if they select a rookie QB this year to start with the oline we have, they are going to look like they choose a bust.
So they can say lets build up the offense and we like Jones. We have not been able to truly judge him because of the oline, the offensive system and his injuries.
Now they build up the offense and he does well, great and if he doesn't they get to say that we liked him and now that we have been able to evaluate him with a competent oline, we are going in another direction.
You don’t go into an interview and rip apart the guys across from you drafted. You don’t start your time with a team by telling a player you haven’t even talked to that his career there is over. There is a ton of downside and no upside.
What Schoen DOES with Daniel Jones will tell you what him and the coach think of him. His words are what he has to say. Does he pick up the 5th year option? Does he not bring in anyone to compete for the job? That will tell me he means this. If he does both, it tells me the jury just came into the court and won’t look at the defendant.
Quote:
I listen to the podcast, just find him to be arrogant and tends to call out fans with opposing takes on twitter. I appreciate the resource.
As for Jones: I recall something you said after the Eli benching. Something along the lines “there are people who are acting like bigger Eli fans than Giant fans.” I feel this way with Jones.
My concerns with Jones is the fact that going all in on him could be a disaster for the franchise. He has durability concerns and hasn’t produced. Do you think picking up his 5th year option is good? I don’t want to be in QB hell with a ‘maybe’ mediocre QB. Scares me.
I’d rather start new at the position.
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff.
Well said Joe. It's exactly where I am with it. On another thread I said they'd be a meltdown on BBI if the new GM and HC wanted Jones. Here it is only a rumor and we have no HC and it's already started. Everyone needs to let this play out.
And yes, you don't leak out that the guy you want to trade isn't good, or may get cut. Deception has been around football forever (look at McCarthy in Dallas lying to Jerry Jones to get a job).
I think it’s more likely the Giants go QB in first round which will make BBI implode.
You don’t go into an interview and rip apart the guys across from you drafted. You don’t start your time with a team by telling a player you haven’t even talked to that his career there is over. There is a ton of downside and no upside.
What Schoen DOES with Daniel Jones will tell you what him and the coach think of him. His words are what he has to say. Does he pick up the 5th year option? Does he not bring in anyone to compete for the job? That will tell me he means this. If he does both, it tells me the jury just came into the court and won’t look at the defendant.
Well said.
And lol at people who still think he is highly graded in the league
[quote] Are mutually exclusive. It may be a moot point anyway. Jones is an injury waiting to happen and once your cervical spine has been injured…. [/
+1. What do you expect these guys to say? Really think they’re going to come out and not the guy.
that year they ended up trading a 2nd round pick for Rosen who obviously flopped, and mostly riding Fitzpatrick, and ultimately drafting Tua (over Herbert).
obviously there is a lot for Flores to reflect on in terms of how he ran the offenses in the 3 years in Miami, but first on that list is that he gave away Tannehill before he got a chance to coach him.
Not true
The Titans and Bengals pass protection was rated just as bad.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff. [/quote]
Good post, I agree with you... except for the statement that there are posters who are more Jones fans than Giants fans. I haven't seen any of that whatsoever. But again, good post
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP.".
There's something to be said for you rhetorically asking if a prospective hire should be honest about the state of the roster he would be inhereting and asserting that to do so would be dumb.
Quote:
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP.".
There's something to be said for you rhetorically asking if a prospective hire should be honest about the state of the roster he would be inhereting and asserting that to do so would be dumb.
Well thanks... I think? lol
Bingo. My guess is vet backup/competition. Stick w/ Jones for the year and make a call when they can free up cap space.
I also wouldn't be surprised on a later flyer in the draft if there is someone they think they can develop. They need to start taking more shots investing here until they find the right guy.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
Trust the process, where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah….
This ain't a team that is having fistfights on the sidelines. This ain't some clown show organization or something else," Judge said. "You talk about the foundation built. The toughest thing to change in a team, in a club, is the way people think. You understand that? That is the toughest thing. You can get new players. You can have your damn locker room all you want. You have to change how people think. You have to change how they f---ing believe in what you're doing. And they have to trust the process.”
1. Injury history
2. Already year 4 of his rookie deal
3. There has been no production
4. He hasn’t elevated anyone else
I do not get the loyalty to Jones. We also think the front office nailed the Jones pick based on their history everywhere else?
Really? That's such a crap analysis. Tell you what you keep OL, keep the coach, keep the GM, and bring in a best QB in the draft. Tell me that YOU WON'T get the same outcome. It's not Jones!!!
They just hired a GM and gave him FULL AUTHORITY to overhaul the WHOLE ORGANIZATION and you want to tell me it falls on the shoulders of Daniel Jones and he's the problem? Horsecrap!
They don’t have to be good enough to be a starter they just have to be better than Jones.
Quote:
Not very likely but who knows… As good as these candidates sound they were top 3 because of the biases of the front office and because they afford an ability to continue living in an echo chamber.
Wait Joe, you don’t like Daniel Jones?
Pat tell the press Hortiz bombed.
Huh, Me Poles? Jones processing and feel are poor?
Pat tell the press Poles is very young and will be a great GM somewhere else.
This would be very unfortunate, if true.
We've been told it's Chris Mara who has the pipeline to Paul Schwartz, not Hanlon.
Hard for me to believe Schoen was involved in evaluating Allen as a prospect, watched him carve up the league the past two seasons while making playoff runs and will be happy watching jones miss yet another open receiver while throwing to someone covered and settling for 3 while averaging 16 points a game.
Quote:
These Daniel Jones arguments are like chinese water torture at this point. Every. Freaking. Day.
What are they supposed to say? Even if they think he sucks do you think the response is going to be "Yeah, ummm, we need to move on from this QB ASAP."
It's hard for me not to root for this guy to get a good break, have some consistent OL play, and get a better scheme and coaching in place than he has had since Joe Judge took over. Because believe it or not it's better for the Giants if he ends up being the guy.
At this point just trust the process. He's probably not going anywhere next year, and I'm sure Schoen and whoever the new coaching staff ends up being will do what's necessary either way as long as they are worth their salt. This constant hand wringing over the existing QB is just beyond ridiculous at this point. I root for success whether it's with Jones or without him.
Trust the process, where have I heard that before?
Oh yeah….
This ain't a team that is having fistfights on the sidelines. This ain't some clown show organization or something else," Judge said. "You talk about the foundation built. The toughest thing to change in a team, in a club, is the way people think. You understand that? That is the toughest thing. You can get new players. You can have your damn locker room all you want. You have to change how people think. You have to change how they f---ing believe in what you're doing. And they have to trust the process.”
Right, but we jettisoned Gettleman and Timmy Toughnuts. All signs are that we have a good hire in Schoen. Hopefully he brings in the best available coach/staff. At this point it is what it is, we have to let it play out.
Shoen might want to give Jones a chance to compete since by all accounts he’s well respected in the locker room, but if the neck is bad that would be taken off the table.
Please link the many quotes that say that? I've watched a lot of sports opinion shows/sports radio and I've haven't once heard anyone who played the game say this. I've heard he's been put in a tough situation...but never heard an ex-NFL player say he looks like a franchise QB. He definitely doesn't pass the eye test.
But lots of time between now and August.
It was terrible with Jones...then fell off a cliff. We had to be bottom 3 in red zone offense with DJ...he's a FG waiting to happen. Gano definitely wants DJ as QB.
Quote:
I feel like, if he is healthy the job is his.
But lots of time between now and August.
It was terrible with Jones...then fell off a cliff. We had to be bottom 3 in red zone offense with DJ...he's a FG waiting to happen. Gano definitely wants DJ as QB.
We barely sniffed a field goal without Jones, though.
That's kinda George's point on page 1.
This entire offense was minor league. Under Jones it actually scored non-garbage time points. Not nearly enough, but we had absolutely nothing when he was gone.
Nothing. Elite college defenses could probably manage us.
and/or fill in when Jones inevitably gets dinged up and plan for both guys to be gone in 2023.
I do think some fans are more patient, especially considering he was dealt a shitty hand (which some refuse to acknowledge).
Besides patience, some feel it would be best for the Giants if Jones succeeded (not a blown high pick and don't need to use another) and felt it was possible based on flashes he showed.
Like always, I'm going to leave it up to the GM and HC to decide. Hopefully the new ones will get it right.
Can you point out one member of this "Jones cult"?
I agree there are fans who seem to be bigger Jones fans than Giants fans, or maybe bigger fans of being proven right than Giants fans; I probably come across as one of those
All I can state is: I m a Giants fan first and foremost. Right now I still believe the best case scenario for the team is for Jones to turn out to be the guy, it seems less likely than likely at this pt.
But as long as he is part of the team, that s what I root for. If Schoen decides to move on, I m immediately behind the other guy, that s the truth of who I am as a fan.
I would gloat a bit if Jones did turn this around, I m human, but I will also admit I was wrong when and if they move on. I liked Kent Graham and Randy Johnson, for goodness sake,I know you probably don’t even know who Johnson is, pt being I know my limitations,….. I have no other agenda as a fan than to see my team win.
But I get your pt. Told you before you re one of the posters I pay attention to, you bring good stuff.
Good post, I agree with you... except for the statement that there are posters who are more Jones fans than Giants fans. I haven't seen any of that whatsoever. But again, good post [/quote]
I kind of thought there is a chance Sean had me in that category. Maybe I should have stated I agree it might seem like there are fans like that
1. Injury history
2. Already year 4 of his rookie deal
3. There has been no production
4. He hasn’t elevated anyone else
I do not get the loyalty to Jones. We also think the front office nailed the Jones pick based on their history everywhere else?
I disagree on elevating other players. His downfield completion percentage was considered top 10 in the league. I see this as "elevating" his downfield recievers ability to make big plays.
before anyone flips their there's a pretty simple statistical baseline for it regardless of opinion (mine included):
by QBR
'21 - 22nd of 31 qualifiers
'20 - 20th of 33
'19 - 18th of 30
if your a QB rating traditionalist Jones (84.3) has almost the exact same career rating as Eli (84.1). with Darius Slayton as the leading receiver over his 3 years. whatever any of us thinks of Jones' talent I don't imagine anyone would argue he was propped up by coaching/talent around him.
Some of those who ranked ahead of Jones by QBR were Hurts, Bridgewater, Tua, Cousins, Wentz, and Garapolo (i'd prefer Jones to those guys for next year if it were a binary choice). Some of the QB's he ranked ahead of who other teams considered starters in their 4th year (or beyond) include Mayfield, Darnold, and Goff. So giving a QB of his statistical track record a 4th year is far from unheard of.
The health and the overall upside are completely legitimate questions so I wouldn't pick up the 5th year option.
If there was a good enough trade return on the table (a la Darnold last year) i'd consider it.
If there's a player graded well available when on the clock I'd pull the trigger and let them compete.
If there's a non-insane trade opp for Wilson or Watson I'd do that.
Because of the injuries I'd try to add the best backup QB possible.
But first and foremost I'd be looking to hire an offensive coordinator with a good track record developing QBs and playcalling because I think in better circumstances Jones can be an above average QB (again a lot like Tannehill). And if not you will need someone like that anyway finding the next QB.
Exactly. What did anyone expect to “hear”? Nothing to see here. Less than nothing.