Here is not the place where production can wait. Flores to me have built a longtime losing program and made it look much improved. Coughlan Parcells and BB were parts of this environment and thrived in it.
Flores and BB are two of a few coaches that were groomed in NY and built for NY. Think what Flores did in Miami is exactly what is needed with the Giants and the area.
He seemed to get the most out of a modestly talented Dolphin team. I just can't shake the nagging worry about his ability to maintain positive relationships with his players and coaches, though.
Dolphins started 1-7 this season and going into week 17 they were still in the hunt for a playoff spot and didn't show up against Tennessee. The year before they were 10-5 headed to the last game of the season and got obliterated by Buffalo who had already clinched the division.
There just seems to be something off about Flores.
Flores seems like a headcase, alienated management by not communicating. The Dolphins other than beating the Pats twice, lost to every playoff team they faced. Almost lost to the Jets, lost to the Jaguars. Their 7 game win streak was mostly against the dregs of the league.
He seemed to get the most out of a modestly talented Dolphin team. I just can't shake the nagging worry about his ability to maintain positive relationships with his players and coaches, though.
Dolphins started 1-7 this season and going into week 17 they were still in the hunt for a playoff spot and didn't show up against Tennessee. The year before they were 10-5 headed to the last game of the season and got obliterated by Buffalo who had already clinched the division.
There just seems to be something off about Flores.
and in 2019 his crappy dolphin roster beat Tom Brady in his last reg season game as a Pat when they needed it for a bye week.
could the "something off" be that his Qbs just weren't that good? Not absolving him of blame if that is the case, he had a hand in choosing all of them, but is it credible to think that he should have done better than 19-14 the last 2 years with Fitz/Tua/Brissett?
He's even more conservative than Judge, has churned through OCs every year in Miami, may have alienated his young QB along the way, and there are enough rumors about him being abrasive that it has to at least be investigated.
If the goal is to hire someone who has been a HC before and you're not scared off by someone who was just fired, why isn't Nagy on the radar? Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want Nagy either, but at least he has a winning career record as HC and has taken his team to the playoffs. I just don't see the appeal with Flores.
you know his tenure at Miami screams red flag to ownership.
After Mara’s presser I’d be shocked if Flores is the choice, maybe if John makes that concession, he wins fans back? Maybe that’s the way to keep the Chris’ in their positions…
I know that I don't know enough about them to have much preference
On the surface, Daboll seems to have more upsides in the areas the Giants need the most help.
It would APPEAR as if Daboll:
Is probably on the same page as the GM on day 1.
Might be very good for Jones (Allen was a project)
Could bring a creative offensive design. Perhaps he could create one here that puts up enough points to be competitive with the big boys.
Can't say any of those things for sure about Flores. But Daboll HASN'T been a HC, and Flores has. Flores did pretty well in Miami with a lousy hand. Most were surprised they fired him, given that. But there are rumblings about Flores: A) his personality. People are calling him "Joe Judge without the charm." And B) his attitude. Apparently he stopped speaking to his coaching staff in the last weeks of the season. He also didn't get on with his bosses with the whole Tua thing. Looks like he was right.
For now, I'm giving Schoen the benefit of the doubt. Either of those two, or someone else. I have no horse in this race. Just get it right.
but i lean flores because he has exoerience and i think a lot of the negative stuff in the media is leaked from the dolphins and their GM so they dont look bad when he gets a new job right away
Daboll because I think he deserves a lot of credit for polishing Allen's game. And when we get a new QB, I would hope Daboll could develop him into a legit franchise QB.
I still think we should connect with Pederson. And ask to speak with Dennis Allen and Greg Olson, who I think did a fantastic job calling plays when Gruden was fired.
As much as I would have liked to go Mike McDaniel, I think he was only possible if we hired Peters.
He seemed to get the most out of a modestly talented Dolphin team. I just can't shake the nagging worry about his ability to maintain positive relationships with his players and coaches, though.
This is exactly where I'm at. I definitely won't be sad if Flores is the guy though.
or Parcells demanded the best and was also looked on as a disciplinarian.Not really a player friendly coach but when you got results he was there for you. That's NY Tough. Enough of the crybaby stuff.
He's even more conservative than Judge, has churned through OCs every year in Miami, may have alienated his young QB along the way, and there are enough rumors about him being abrasive that it has to at least be investigated.
If the goal is to hire someone who has been a HC before and you're not scared off by someone who was just fired, why isn't Nagy on the radar? Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want Nagy either, but at least he has a winning career record as HC and has taken his team to the playoffs. I just don't see the appeal with Flores.
I want Daboll or either of the SF coordinators.
Agree on FLores. The mans team won 8 games in a row, and he was fired the day after win #8. And this seems to bother no one here...
I would need to know EXACTLY what went in to that decision before even thinking about hiring him as HC. Because firing a guy after an 8 game winning streak, that just screams "issues"...and thats the last thing the Giants need right now.
NY guy that's had some success as a HC. He'll need a solid OC and oline coach, there's some guys out there that he could bring in for sure too. Count me in.
Flores has a problem getting along with others, or he wouldn't have been canned. I heard he wasn't even talking to his assistant coaches for the 2nd half of the year as Miami was winning all those games.
Daboll may be a product of Josh Allen, and not the other way around. Schoen may be riding on Allen's coattails too, to some extent, so if you hire Daboll, you're making the same gamble twice. Spread your bets. Hire someone else.
Agree on FLores. The mans team won 8 games in a row, and he was fired the day after win #8. And this seems to bother no one here...
I would need to know EXACTLY what went in to that decision before even thinking about hiring him as HC. Because firing a guy after an 8 game winning streak, that just screams "issues"...and thats the last thing the Giants need right now.
Stephen Ross has owned that team a dozen years and they have only four winning seasons during that time. Two of them were under Brian Flores. I’m sure the Giants will investigate thoroughly, but someone else’s dumb decision shouldn’t impede them from making a good one. Flores can coach.
I am firmly in the Flores camp. Seeing his story and how he grew up… how can you not root for that man to be the next coach of the NYG?
Obviously he is a great candidate based on his resume, but being from Brownsville Brooklyn and coming home to lead the Giants? Gives me chills… I think he can be an excellent coach and this job will mean more to him than any other team ever could. :]
That was my reaction to the video as well. He grew up a Giants fan and he doesn't f**k around. But I admit that's more of an emotional reaction than an informed and logical one...
but if it's one or the other I'd give Daboll the shot.
I think it was a foregone conclusion that Daboll was who Schoen would hire if he was named GM, I'm curious who you would like besides Daboll or Flores?
Flores has head coach experience as apposed to Daboll. I think the logical thing is to not pair a first time GM with a first time HC. Flores would need to hit a home run with the new OC. I also think they should keep Patrick Graham., who has worked with Flores. At least there would be some cohesion on one side of the ball.
Please God no more "you don't want to pair a first time XYZ with a first time XYZ". How did that work out with Garrett?
but if it's one or the other I'd give Daboll the shot.
I think it was a foregone conclusion that Daboll was who Schoen would hire if he was named GM, I'm curious who you would like besides Daboll or Flores?
Demeco Ryan is the short timer I'd roll the dice on. Collectively, the crop is not inspiring so far. My hope for Daboll would be he's able to make Jones worthy of a trade, and identify his replacement to really set that stone in place.
I guess you haven’t heard much negativity around the league about him? I want him to be my #1 choice but Flores is such an enigma to me. Some of the players loved him and seemed confused/upset when he left. Then you hear about him getting into it with Tua, supposedly wanting more power (can’t fault someone for this as long as it doesn’t get to a toxic level) and losing a bunch of coordinators/not getting along with them. I wonder how much of it comes from the Dolphins front office. Just seems like he would be somewhat of a gamble if any of the rumors are true. But he would also be a great option at HC if that stuff isn’t true.
1. Mara gives him the same "you gotta change your ways" speech he gave to Coughlin
2. Flores agrees to give up on wanting Watson for QB
HOWEVER, if Daboll can bring Ken Dorsey with him, you now have to two guys who turned Allen into a star (though I'll guess Buffalo will elevate Dorsey to OC to keep him)
Can see both sides - plenty of good DCs available, not as many OCs, is a plus for Daboll
Flores has been a winner already, Daboll is a complete unknown as a head coach and his offenses before Allen were not good
I rather have Flores. Think people think too deeply into him having issues in Miami. If it were a more established and successful team I might take it more seriously or as a concern. Issues in a loosing organization? Go figure you don’t say.
Like a few have said with that dolphins team they over achieved and did a good job with what he had as far as talent. Love his story too…came from humble beginnings.
Daboll who I would support also is unknown as a head coach. Flores doesn’t have much either but still it’s something we can look at. Daboll might be a great coach in the making I’m not sure. Hard to chose but I would say my guess would be obviously Daboll and Schoen would have better chemistry and less of a learning curve between the two. I’m glad I don’t get paid to make the choice but if I had to I would take Flores…but I’m feeling about 70% sure they will go with Daboll.
LOVE either of them. I think you need to have an offensive minded head coach in today’s NFL b/c if/when you’re successful teams are going to be poaching your OC. By having a head coach that can control the offense, you can always find an OC/play caller who you trust to run your system. I’d go with Daboll for this reason.
Flores and BB are two of a few coaches that were groomed in NY and built for NY. Think what Flores did in Miami is exactly what is needed with the Giants and the area.
There just seems to be something off about Flores.
Flores seems to have problems working with others be they coordinators or FO people. Won't last long here unless he wins big immediately IMO.
Quote:
He seemed to get the most out of a modestly talented Dolphin team. I just can't shake the nagging worry about his ability to maintain positive relationships with his players and coaches, though.
Dolphins started 1-7 this season and going into week 17 they were still in the hunt for a playoff spot and didn't show up against Tennessee. The year before they were 10-5 headed to the last game of the season and got obliterated by Buffalo who had already clinched the division.
There just seems to be something off about Flores.
and in 2019 his crappy dolphin roster beat Tom Brady in his last reg season game as a Pat when they needed it for a bye week.
could the "something off" be that his Qbs just weren't that good? Not absolving him of blame if that is the case, he had a hand in choosing all of them, but is it credible to think that he should have done better than 19-14 the last 2 years with Fitz/Tua/Brissett?
I would rule them out.
I don't understand the Flores love.
He's even more conservative than Judge, has churned through OCs every year in Miami, may have alienated his young QB along the way, and there are enough rumors about him being abrasive that it has to at least be investigated.
If the goal is to hire someone who has been a HC before and you're not scared off by someone who was just fired, why isn't Nagy on the radar? Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want Nagy either, but at least he has a winning career record as HC and has taken his team to the playoffs. I just don't see the appeal with Flores.
I want Daboll or either of the SF coordinators.
After Mara’s presser I’d be shocked if Flores is the choice, maybe if John makes that concession, he wins fans back? Maybe that’s the way to keep the Chris’ in their positions…
It would APPEAR as if Daboll:
Is probably on the same page as the GM on day 1.
Might be very good for Jones (Allen was a project)
Could bring a creative offensive design. Perhaps he could create one here that puts up enough points to be competitive with the big boys.
Can't say any of those things for sure about Flores. But Daboll HASN'T been a HC, and Flores has. Flores did pretty well in Miami with a lousy hand. Most were surprised they fired him, given that. But there are rumblings about Flores: A) his personality. People are calling him "Joe Judge without the charm." And B) his attitude. Apparently he stopped speaking to his coaching staff in the last weeks of the season. He also didn't get on with his bosses with the whole Tua thing. Looks like he was right.
For now, I'm giving Schoen the benefit of the doubt. Either of those two, or someone else. I have no horse in this race. Just get it right.
I still think we should connect with Pederson. And ask to speak with Dennis Allen and Greg Olson, who I think did a fantastic job calling plays when Gruden was fired.
As much as I would have liked to go Mike McDaniel, I think he was only possible if we hired Peters.
This is exactly where I'm at. I definitely won't be sad if Flores is the guy though.
Well, that sure settles it. Flores was already my top choice, and now it's beyond a doubt. Thx Sy!
Quote:
...
I don't understand the Flores love.
He's even more conservative than Judge, has churned through OCs every year in Miami, may have alienated his young QB along the way, and there are enough rumors about him being abrasive that it has to at least be investigated.
If the goal is to hire someone who has been a HC before and you're not scared off by someone who was just fired, why isn't Nagy on the radar? Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want Nagy either, but at least he has a winning career record as HC and has taken his team to the playoffs. I just don't see the appeal with Flores.
I want Daboll or either of the SF coordinators.
Agree on FLores. The mans team won 8 games in a row, and he was fired the day after win #8. And this seems to bother no one here...
I would need to know EXACTLY what went in to that decision before even thinking about hiring him as HC. Because firing a guy after an 8 game winning streak, that just screams "issues"...and thats the last thing the Giants need right now.
What he said.
Daboll may be a product of Josh Allen, and not the other way around. Schoen may be riding on Allen's coattails too, to some extent, so if you hire Daboll, you're making the same gamble twice. Spread your bets. Hire someone else.
Agree on FLores. The mans team won 8 games in a row, and he was fired the day after win #8. And this seems to bother no one here...
I would need to know EXACTLY what went in to that decision before even thinking about hiring him as HC. Because firing a guy after an 8 game winning streak, that just screams "issues"...and thats the last thing the Giants need right now.
Stephen Ross has owned that team a dozen years and they have only four winning seasons during that time. Two of them were under Brian Flores. I’m sure the Giants will investigate thoroughly, but someone else’s dumb decision shouldn’t impede them from making a good one. Flores can coach.
Obviously he is a great candidate based on his resume, but being from Brownsville Brooklyn and coming home to lead the Giants? Gives me chills… I think he can be an excellent coach and this job will mean more to him than any other team ever could. :]
That was my reaction to the video as well. He grew up a Giants fan and he doesn't f**k around. But I admit that's more of an emotional reaction than an informed and logical one...
I like Daboll because he will bring the offensive plan in an offensive league & he knows Schoen very well. I keep going back to “lockstep”.
[quote] and Tony Romo OC [/quote
Tony Romo just might make a very good OC.
I think it was a foregone conclusion that Daboll was who Schoen would hire if he was named GM, I'm curious who you would like besides Daboll or Flores?
I’m guessing that Romo has little interest in changing jobs now.
Please God no more "you don't want to pair a first time XYZ with a first time XYZ". How did that work out with Garrett?
Also, although Judge failed, it would be an easy transition for players from Judge to Flores—taught some similar concepts.
Boy do I have a surprise for you.
Quote:
but if it's one or the other I'd give Daboll the shot.
I think it was a foregone conclusion that Daboll was who Schoen would hire if he was named GM, I'm curious who you would like besides Daboll or Flores?
Demeco Ryan is the short timer I'd roll the dice on. Collectively, the crop is not inspiring so far. My hope for Daboll would be he's able to make Jones worthy of a trade, and identify his replacement to really set that stone in place.
I guess you haven’t heard much negativity around the league about him? I want him to be my #1 choice but Flores is such an enigma to me. Some of the players loved him and seemed confused/upset when he left. Then you hear about him getting into it with Tua, supposedly wanting more power (can’t fault someone for this as long as it doesn’t get to a toxic level) and losing a bunch of coordinators/not getting along with them. I wonder how much of it comes from the Dolphins front office. Just seems like he would be somewhat of a gamble if any of the rumors are true. But he would also be a great option at HC if that stuff isn’t true.
2. Flores agrees to give up on wanting Watson for QB
HOWEVER, if Daboll can bring Ken Dorsey with him, you now have to two guys who turned Allen into a star (though I'll guess Buffalo will elevate Dorsey to OC to keep him)
Can see both sides - plenty of good DCs available, not as many OCs, is a plus for Daboll
Flores has been a winner already, Daboll is a complete unknown as a head coach and his offenses before Allen were not good
I think it will be Daboll because of Schoen
I'm torn between Daboll and Ryans. I love McDaniel as a football brain (almost like an Ernie Adams), but I don't know if he's a HC.
Hire Daboll, draft Corral, run a million first down play action passes.
If Giants wait a year and take Herbert, Judge probably still has a job.
Them's the breaks. Flores is Judge redux.
Like a few have said with that dolphins team they over achieved and did a good job with what he had as far as talent. Love his story too…came from humble beginnings.
Daboll who I would support also is unknown as a head coach. Flores doesn’t have much either but still it’s something we can look at. Daboll might be a great coach in the making I’m not sure. Hard to chose but I would say my guess would be obviously Daboll and Schoen would have better chemistry and less of a learning curve between the two. I’m glad I don’t get paid to make the choice but if I had to I would take Flores…but I’m feeling about 70% sure they will go with Daboll.