Tbh not really anything we didn't strongly suspect just based on watching him. But pretty damning to hear it come from an opposition coaches mouth. Don't believe for a minute that Howie Roseman is as confident in Hurts as he would like everyone to believe. Draft is going to be really interesting this year...
"This guy can't read" - (
New Window )
That could be on Sirianni too, there was a good thread regarding Aikmans comments on scheme vs talent just the other day based on that Smith match up.
Great DC....
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yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
Great DC....
Might deserve a promotion
You remember Fromm and Glennon giving the ball to the eagles consistently, yes?
We shouldn’t be throwing stones too much at Eagles as Jones still struggles himself with his reads and route progressions. He’s gotten better but not remotely consistent enough.
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yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
Great DC....
Promote him to head coach, pronto!
Quote:
yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
You remember Fromm and Glennon giving the ball to the eagles consistently, yes?
That's fair.
The defense only gave up a field goal in the first half (again, right before halftime...sigh).
The scoring drives in the second half were:
21 yards (touchdown)
2 yards (field goal)
57 yards (touchdown)
75 yards (touchdown)
So it got worse as the game went on and the defense probably lost heart.
Hurts finished 17-of-29 for 199 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions (102.5 QBR).
Quote:
In comment 15566681 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
You remember Fromm and Glennon giving the ball to the eagles consistently, yes?
That's fair.
The defense only gave up a field goal in the first half (again, right before halftime...sigh).
The scoring drives in the second half were:
21 yards (touchdown)
2 yards (field goal)
57 yards (touchdown)
75 yards (touchdown)
So it got worse as the game went on and the defense probably lost heart.
Hurts finished 17-of-29 for 199 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions (102.5 QBR).
And one TD was a 5 yard pass to Lane fucking Johnson.
They have a 3rd pick too. 19th or so, I forget.
In a group text with primarily Eagles fans prior to last weeks game I suggested that Jones and Hurts were very similar players. I was mocked, then sat back and watched the game unfold. It was satisfying until I remembered that my own team was a part of this equation.
Even if the coaches didn’t target Smith, the QB has to recognize the coverage and look his way. Even if he’s the 3rd or 4th option on a play.
As others have hinted at, I wonder what other coaches say about Daniel Jones during games.
Quote:
yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
You remember Fromm and Glennon giving the ball to the eagles consistently, yes?
😂😂
Can’t judge that game lol
Little prickly lately, aren't ya?
Quote:
it's one of his biggest flaws.
In a group text with primarily Eagles fans prior to last weeks game I suggested that Jones and Hurts were very similar players. I was mocked, then sat back and watched the game unfold. It was satisfying until I remembered that my own team was a part of this equation.
Don't the Eagles have all-pro caliber OL-men, receivers who can get separation and catch, and a TE and RB who can block?
Quote:
need to bring Jones into every single thread? He’s not going to be the QB of the future. He’ll be gone in a year. He’s irrelevant to this conversation. Jesus.
Little prickly lately, aren't ya?
Fucking A right, I am. I can’t even enjoy a little Eagles schadenfreude in peace!
Quote:
In comment 15566773 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
need to bring Jones into every single thread? He’s not going to be the QB of the future. He’ll be gone in a year. He’s irrelevant to this conversation. Jesus.
Little prickly lately, aren't ya?
Fucking A right, I am. I can’t even enjoy a little Eagles schadenfreude in peace!
I cant even begin to describe how much fun that group text was as the game wore on, more stimulating than pornography.
As others have hinted at, I wonder what other coaches say about Daniel Jones during games.
They are likely saying the same thing aboutJones. It is not difficult to get him confused and holding the ball too long because it happens almost every week.
He's a lot better in the NFL than I thought he'd be.
Quote:
need to bring Jones into every single thread? He’s not going to be the QB of the future. He’ll be gone in a year. He’s irrelevant to this conversation. Jesus.
Little prickly lately, aren't ya?
Beat me to it.
Quote:
In comment 15566704 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 15566681 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
yet the Eagles scored 34 points on the Giants in the second game late in the year.
You remember Fromm and Glennon giving the ball to the eagles consistently, yes?
That's fair.
The defense only gave up a field goal in the first half (again, right before halftime...sigh).
The scoring drives in the second half were:
21 yards (touchdown)
2 yards (field goal)
57 yards (touchdown)
75 yards (touchdown)
So it got worse as the game went on and the defense probably lost heart.
Hurts finished 17-of-29 for 199 yards, two touchdowns, no interceptions (102.5 QBR).
And one TD was a 5 yard pass to Lane fucking Johnson.
Andrew fucking Thomas has more receiving TDs this year than KG or KT.
What's your point?
The big issue is a QB relying on the run where his pocket skills are secondary is that it is almost impossible to win a championship with them. Unless you get extraordinary lucky in the playoffs, the QB at some point will have to win from the pocket. Good defenses are going to force the issue.
No other fanbase ever brings up their QB in comparison to others.
Jones will be brought up for as long as he's on the roster. And I imagine even after if his replacement struggles. I can already see the DJDF making "bet you wish we kept Jones now, don't you?" posts in that event
It’s ok to talk about Jones (if it is positive), and it is ok to endlessly beat a dead horse about how bad a Giants player is (if it is Evan Engram(. You just can’t say bad things about Jones.
I hate his defensive schemes.
Jon, he can do, as I’ve seen him. I think he was starting to get the yips, and we’ll see how mentally damaged he’s been behind the oline. He had time for one read, in most situations.
Some time with Dabol will help him and may give the roster time to stabilize. He needs to feel the rush better to buy himself time. Rebuilding the line with premium picks does two things.
Stabilizes the situation for 1. Reclaiming the asset in Jones for 22’. And 2. Gets the new oline in place for development of the next asset in 23’.
I think he needs to stay unless we get blown away with an offer.
PHI:
-Due to some flashes, I think they're going to hang on to Hurts longer than they should out of loyalty and the hope of hitting his ceiling. I don't see them moving on until 2023 when his 4-year rookie contract is up for the option, which they will decline.
-I think he ends up as a backup QB in the league ultimately; perhaps another team gives him a chance to start but I'm not a fan of him. When comparing DJ to Hurts, we simply have the time advantage to decide on whether or not either of these QB's is good enough, and if Jalen isn't the guy in PHI, I get the sense he won't want to remain there in a lesser role and will just be released.
-With a NYG rebuild, let's check back in 2023/2024, and I think PHI will be in full rebuild mode unless they use huge FA cash for a starting quality veteran QB. Since Hurts has one more year on his rookie deal compared to the NYG (DJ), and the NYG rebuild is beginning now in 2022 versus a likely PHI rebuild beginning in 2023 or 2024 based on what they do.
-If Hurts doesn't work out and PHI is stuck in a rebuild, the GM and/or owner may also lose confidence in the PHI coaching staff for hanging onto Hurts too long or mis-managing his rookie contract time period where the team has decent talent, at least compared to the NYG. We've all seen the power of hitting on a great rookie and using the cap elsewhere (Burrows, Allen, Herbert, Murray, Jackson, Watson before he was a creeper). This has the potential to put the NYG rebuild two years ahead of PHI instead of one.
NYG:
-Now that we have a new GM and eventually coaching staff, there will just be tons of turnover on the team and in our player evaluation personnel department. However, I hope they don't go QB this year due to it being considered a weak QB year. I don't know college FB, but I believe there's two or three top rated prospects this year, but even those aren't historically great rookie grades? I'd rather take picks 5 and 7 in the first and trade down on at least one of them, while still using one pick within the top 10/15 on a top OL prospect.
-I'd rather have a new regime and DJ on his last year of a rookie contract to see what he has for real, if he's healthy of course. If he doesn't prove to be the guy, which is likely (just due to adding in the neck injury as an added variable counting against him unfortunately, due to the serious nature of those type of injury ending careers).
-I'm hoping we sign a veteran backup QB for 2022, as we not only need one due to our current crap behind DJ, but he can also help mentor both DJ and what I predict will be a first round 2023 selection, hopefully with the same conviction and judgement as displayed when drafting Josh Allen. If they focus on a guy as much as Allen, then trade up as needed. The new personnel, coaches, 2022 draftees and FA signings alone will likely result in about 3-4 wins over the 2021 season, so I certainly don't see us having a top 5 pick in the 2023 draft; perhaps 10-20 is expected. This all assumes we actually got this shit right this time. I think the last three coaches can all be grouped into one era of dark times for the NYG, and this time it marks a true reset. So, TC era with 2 SB's, dark post-TC era, and now the "brand new" rebuild era where merit was ahead of prior affiliations/relationships from the past decades.
-The new GM SHOULD have more picks next year from trades in this years' draft. We have so many needs, the BPA option should work throughout the entire draft, and I hope to see a lot of trade downs throughout the draft for more picks this year and next year as a result. Just as an example, let's say we make a trade and get an extra 6th this year. The few spots we may lose swapping in the 6th round while gaining another selection somewhere else, just allows us to go BPA and they are more likely than not to be a player in a position of need. We really don't have one position group other than perhaps safety, where we truly need a drafted player to try and take a starting spot for 2022.
-I think free agent Ryan Fitzpatrick would be the ideal backup QB signing this year. He has consistently shown hot streaks when playing, has been on a ton of teams including the NYJ (he may not have liked the team, but perhaps the NYC area), is smart AF (Harvard), and has the maturity and respect of NFL teams and players to be part of our QB depth during the rebuild.
-If DJ is healthy but not our QB1 going forward, and we draft a new QB next year, I think it's possible for the NYG to decline his 5th year option and sign him at a much lower priced backup via renegotiation available for rookies after their third year? If so, DJ MAY see the results of the rebuild and if he has a Manning temperament as it appears he does so far, he may want the chance to stick around as our backup at a reduced contract. Especially if we don't have a Fitz-type veteran for 2022/2023. He would know the new offense for the incoming QB for the 2023 season and tutor him during the 2023 mini-camps up until the very last game of that season.
Quote:
it's one of his biggest flaws.
Jon, he can do, as I’ve seen him. I think he was starting to get the yips, and we’ll see how mentally damaged he’s been behind the oline. He had time for one read, in most situations.
Some time with Dabol will help him and may give the roster time to stabilize. He needs to feel the rush better to buy himself time. Rebuilding the line with premium picks does two things.
Stabilizes the situation for 1. Reclaiming the asset in Jones for 22’. And 2. Gets the new oline in place for development of the next asset in 23’.
I think he needs to stay unless we get blown away with an offer.
Agree about reclaiming some value to move him. The 2020 Tampa game really showed how much of the field he regularly doesn't see, and it's tough to win that way. Hope you're right, amigo!
But there are many believe who that we have not seen the best of DJ and that given the opportunity with a new coaching staff and better surrounding cast he might become a good QB.
Nothing is written in stone and if he cannot produce this year then the Giants will cut bait.
Every player learns at their own pace, the light goes on for some faster than others and despite the criticism of Jones he has shown improvement in some critical areas.
His turnovers are down and his ability to read zone defenses is markedly improved. These were two major points of criticism.
The other contributing factor in the evaluation of DJ is that there have been glimpses of greatness in a few games.
He orchestrated (3) wins where he lead (4th) quarter winning drives against 2019 Tampa ( 112.7 RTG), 2019 Wash (132.1 RTG ), and 2021 NOR (108.5 RTG) in addition he had
a total of (10) games with a RTG over 100.
Another point that I would make is that Jones best year was his rookie year. Despite his turnovers Jones had games (4) games where his RTG was an elite 112.7, 121.7, 124.1, 132.2. What would have been his trajectory if Shurmer had remained HC?
Despite the justified criticisms of Jones play there are enough negative variables that impacted his play which makes it difficult if not impossible to fully understand his potential.
I believe that he will play well next year, but if he does not he will be gone.
It's a pretty straightforward question for the Eagles this offseason - can Hurts get better and more competent as a passer? I am dubious and think he's more of a Tebow clone. And if Philly is smart, they are active this offseason looking for a replacement.
Hell, outside of Dallas, all of the NFCE desperately need different QB solutions.
-If DJ is healthy but not our QB1 going forward, and we draft a new QB next year, I think it's possible for the NYG to decline his 5th year option and sign him at a much lower priced backup via renegotiation available for rookies after their third year? If so, DJ MAY see the results of the rebuild and if he has a Manning temperament as it appears he does so far, he may want the chance to stick around as our backup at a reduced contract. Especially if we don't have a Fitz-type veteran for 2022/2023. He would know the new offense for the incoming QB for the 2023 season and tutor him during the 2023 mini-camps up until the very last game of that season. [/quote]
You lost me with your last paragraph about Jones and renegotiation. The 5th year option expires on May 2, 2022, just after the draft. Are you saying they can decline Jones’ 5th year option and essentially negotiate an extension on his rookie contract, thereby creating a 5th year at a negotiated price that is considerably less than his 5th year option? If I am Jones, I think I decline that offer and play out the contract because I can probably get the same deal from the Giants in 2023 or get a better deal elsewhere when my contract expires in 2023.
-If DJ is healthy but not our QB1 going forward, and we draft a new QB next year, I think it's possible for the NYG to decline his 5th year option and sign him at a much lower priced backup via renegotiation available for rookies after their third year? If so, DJ MAY see the results of the rebuild and if he has a Manning temperament as it appears he does so far, he may want the chance to stick around as our backup at a reduced contract. Especially if we don't have a Fitz-type veteran for 2022/2023. He would know the new offense for the incoming QB for the 2023 season and tutor him during the 2023 mini-camps up until the very last game of that season.
You lost me with your last paragraph about Jones and renegotiation. The 5th year option expires on May 2, 2022, just after the draft. Are you saying they can decline Jones’ 5th year option and essentially negotiate an extension on his rookie contract, thereby creating a 5th year at a negotiated price that is considerably less than his 5th year option? If I am Jones, I think I decline that offer and play out the contract because I can probably get the same deal from the Giants in 2023 or get a better deal elsewhere when my contract expires in 2023. [/quote]
This was supposed to be a reaction to Jamison’s comments.
-If DJ is healthy but not our QB1 going forward, and we draft a new QB next year, I think it's possible for the NYG to decline his 5th year option and sign him at a much lower priced backup via renegotiation available for rookies after their third year? If so, DJ MAY see the results of the rebuild and if he has a Manning temperament as it appears he does so far, he may want the chance to stick around as our backup at a reduced contract. Especially if we don't have a Fitz-type veteran for 2022/2023. He would know the new offense for the incoming QB for the 2023 season and tutor him during the 2023 mini-camps up until the very last game of that season.
You lost me with your last paragraph about Jones and renegotiation. The 5th year option expires on May 2, 2022, just after the draft. Are you saying they can decline Jones’ 5th year option and essentially negotiate an extension on his rookie contract, thereby creating a 5th year at a negotiated price that is considerably less than his 5th year option? If I am Jones, I think I decline that offer and play out the contract because I can probably get the same deal from the Giants in 2023 or get a better deal elsewhere when my contract expires in 2023. [/quote]
I'm suggesting DJ will have his 5th year option declined. I assume at that point his rookie contract ends and he can negotiate (rather than negotiate as I misstated) a backup QB contract after the 2022 season.
Just a thought, as there may not be too much demand for DJ if he doesn't prove his quality during the 2022 season, has his option declined already, and still has the potential for one bad hit to his neck/head resulting in his career ending.
If I'm in DJ's spot under those conditions, I'd rather be a backup QB at the team I began with versus a backup somewhere else for minimal contract differences and most likely, few or no opportunities where teams sign him to anything more than a one-year deal.
I'm far from a contract expert, but I hope that makes sense?
Quote:
it's one of his biggest flaws.
In a group text with primarily Eagles fans prior to last weeks game I suggested that Jones and Hurts were very similar players. I was mocked, then sat back and watched the game unfold. It was satisfying until I remembered that my own team was a part of this equation.
They are similar but Jones is a better player. I am not saying that Jones is the long term answer here but if he were on the Eagles with that offensive line, weapons, and defense then he would be playing much better than Hurts.
I am fine with Jones being the QB next year if Schoen and the new coach want that assuming he’s healthy enough to play. If Schoen likes a QB in the draft then Jones’ presence will not prevent him from selecting one. The Giants will bring in a veteran to compete with Jones for the starting job with Trubisky being the likely target especially if Daboll is hired. Mariota would be another good option as a 1 year stopgap.
You should watch some of Daniel Jones's games.
I know you'll wait to see them.
Well, they did spend the entire game with the ball.
If this is the case, wouldn't Carson Strong be the undisputed #1 overall pick?
(Which means Jacksonville would trade down)
It's a pretty straightforward question for the Eagles this offseason - can Hurts get better and more competent as a passer? I am dubious and think he's more of a Tebow clone. And if Philly is smart, they are active this offseason looking for a replacement.
Hell, outside of Dallas, all of the NFCE desperately need different QB solutions.
He's better than Tebow. Tebow could barely pass at all.