"Just like Giants GM frontrunner (at the time) Joe Schoen did nothing to hurt himself in his 1st interview, word is presumed HC frontrunner Brian Daboll did nothing to hurt himself in his. I think Brian Flores is the Adam Peters candidate here, needing to find a way to overcome."
Ian has been pretty spot on the last 3 weeks, so a good nugget
Ian - (
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As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
Hey buddy, too long..Has Dorsey ever called plays?
I’m not sure why Daboll should be viewed as a front runner other than that Schoen knows him.
On the one hand, I’d like to know that Daboll does not have a “familiarity” leg up but I’m also not naive to the way the NFL works.
People know their people and people bring their people.
That said, I really hope Schoen is open minded enough to consider other candidates if they interview better than Daboll.
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
Schoen is/was there. Wondering if he feels the same?
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Like Gettleman was ultimately judged on Barkley, Jones, and his head coach hires, Schoen is going to be judged on his personnel decisions and HC hires.
If Schoen picks the wrong coaches, we hired the wrong GM.
If he picks a winning HC, we picked the right GM.
The play calling in my kind is a non-issue. If the coach can’t get an OC to run his system he is going to have problems up and down his staff and likely not be here long anyway. The good part about that is the OC becomes less critical if the team succeeds and you lose him to anHC job because the system is not being overhauled when you bring in a new OC.
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
Schoen is/was there. Wondering if he feels the same?
I see Dorsey becoming a HC somewhere soon. Could be college or NFL. I liked him at Miami. Not the most arm talent but guy had crazy compete level and ran the offense well.
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Like Gettleman was ultimately judged on Barkley, Jones, and his head coach hires, Schoen is going to be judged on his personnel decisions and HC hires.
If Schoen picks the wrong coaches, we hired the wrong GM.
If he picks a winning HC, we picked the right GM.
Yep. Folks have to hope for best and be patient for a year or two but it’s not inconceivable we are sitting here 3 years from now lamenting prospects of another regime turnover. Them’s the stakes in the NFL.
I’m not sure why Daboll should be viewed as a front runner other than that Schoen knows him.
On the one hand, I’d like to know that Daboll does not have a “familiarity” leg up but I’m also not naive to the way the NFL works.
People know their people and people bring their people.
That said, I really hope Schoen is open minded enough to consider other candidates if they interview better than Daboll.
The counterpoint is that he knows him better than anyone and in his mind he can do a good job. This would be less risk than some other coordinator whom he doesn't know as well.
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
For those who haven't read his Belichick book, it was pretty clear that he has a great relationship with the Maras.
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
If Daboll comes, can they make Dorsey OC/Assistant HC or something like that? I heard he is well respected and that would be interesting if we can pry him away from the Bills.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Could bring Ken Dorsey with as OC,
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Could bring Ken Dorsey with as OC,
Yes, but again, has Dorsey ever called plays?
What's Schoen's connection with Flores? I'll be shocked if it isn't Daboll.
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Could bring Ken Dorsey with as OC,
Yes, but again, has Dorsey ever called plays?
Been passing game coordinator in addition to QB coach the last two years. Daboll still could be involved, but not every OC called plays before they became OC. If it’s Daboll, the DC will be the more important call.
I kind of think that play-calling is over-rated as a skill, I think it's far more common to have the execution screwed up rather than being a bad call when it doesn't work out. But calling a play that your players are unlikely to screw up is a skill....
I kind of think that play-calling is over-rated as a skill, I think it's far more common to have the execution screwed up rather than being a bad call when it doesn't work out. But calling a play that your players are unlikely to screw up is a skill....
Schoen's comfort level with a coach he's known is going to win out over his lack of previous HC experience. I really don't see any other coach getting serious consideration by Schoen regardless of the interviews they have scheduled.
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
While I don’t know much about Dorsey that would still be an awesome staff. Munchak is probably the best OL coach in football. The only other coach I can think of who can be argued is Bill Callahan.
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
While I don’t know much about Dorsey that would still be an awesome staff. Munchak is probably the best OL coach in football. The only other coach I can think of who can be argued is Bill Callahan.
Munchak would be a dream
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Could bring Ken Dorsey with as OC,
Yes, but again, has Dorsey ever called plays?
Several OCs don't call plays (when they're on a staff with an offensive HC), and up and coming offensive position coaches don't usually have playcalling experience - it's a leap of faith.
But it's moot. Buffalo isn't going to let us take Dorsey if we take Daboll. O'Brien would be my guess for OC under Daboll.
Like Gettleman was ultimately judged on Barkley, Jones, and his head coach hires, Schoen is going to be judged on his personnel decisions and HC hires.
If Schoen picks the wrong coaches, we hired the wrong GM.
If he picks a winning HC, we picked the right GM.
To Eric's point, this is the most important decision he will make, all the great draft picks and FAs will not overcome a bad coaching staff.
I don't think he will pick Daboll if he is not fully confident in the pick or anyone else for that matter. he gets one shot as a GM most do not get a second chance to run an organization.
Also, I am sure they have discussed the staff they will be looking to build in the interview.
I am happy the Giants picked a young GM with their future on the line.
Gettleman always seemed like he was doing the Giants a favor by being here and waiting out retirement
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
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In comment 15566782 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
Ok, so indulge me on this: what's good about Flores that is different from Judge?
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
How about Zimmer as OC?
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In comment 15566800 Ben in Tampa said:
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
How about Zimmer as OC?
He's going to shift over to the offensive side of the ball after a career as a defensive coach?
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In comment 15566874 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566782 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
Ok, so indulge me on this: what's good about Flores that is different from Judge?
Has two winning seasons as an NFL head coach.
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In comment 15566800 Ben in Tampa said:
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
How about Zimmer as OC?
Jesus.
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In comment 15566810 eli4life said:
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In comment 15566800 Ben in Tampa said:
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
How about Zimmer as OC?
He's going to shift over to the offensive side of the ball after a career as a defensive coach?
Yes, I gather you didn’t get the memo..
On a more important note, how you doing with the loss of Dad?
'Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.'
Who could have seen it coming if Schoen chooses Daboll who brings Ken Dorsey with him as OC and then Mitch Trubisky is signed to compete with Daniel Jones.
I'm not saying that it's been predetermined or that the head coach search is a farce. I'm saying that all of that makes sense to me and would represent a big upgrade for the Giants in every area mentioned from 2021.
Who could they hire and find to compete with Jones that would be a better scenario. If Daboll could hire a great OL coach and a great DC I think the Giants could make a very quick leap toward contention.
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In comment 15566969 section125 said:
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In comment 15566810 eli4life said:
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In comment 15566800 Ben in Tampa said:
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Dorsey / OC
Munchak / OL
Fangio / DC
?
Works for me
How about Zimmer as OC?
He's going to shift over to the offensive side of the ball after a career as a defensive coach?
Yes, I gather you didn’t get the memo..
On a more important note, how you doing with the loss of Dad?
Actually doing much better recently, but his birthday is coming up in a few weeks, and I suspect that'll be tough - going through the Giants hiring a new GM has been tough!
You're a hero, Doc. Glad to have you back here and appreciate you checking in.
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In comment 15566892 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566874 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566782 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
Ok, so indulge me on this: what's good about Flores that is different from Judge?
Has two winning seasons as an NFL head coach.
Cool, you can read the agate page.
What about his coaching style makes you think he'd be an improvement over Judge?
And if all you want is an experienced HC with a winning record, why aren't you clamoring for Nagy?
You shouldn't want either of them, but I'm curious why anyone likes Flores.
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In comment 15566965 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566892 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566874 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566782 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
Ok, so indulge me on this: what's good about Flores that is different from Judge?
Has two winning seasons as an NFL head coach.
Cool, you can read the agate page.
What about his coaching style makes you think he'd be an improvement over Judge?
And if all you want is an experienced HC with a winning record, why aren't you clamoring for Nagy?
You shouldn't want either of them, but I'm curious why anyone likes Flores.
The answer is because Flores is not your typical retread. He doesn’t bring some extended body of mediocre work. You can make an argument his program was on the way up. He had a bust of a QB that apparently he did not want. You can hire a guy like Flores and logically expect that there are several things he won’t need to re-learn that will exist for a true first year guy. I’d also expect someone in their 2nd opportunity to have a list of things they know right off the bat they need to do differently.
I’m not telling you it’s impossible for Daboll to be great here. Just saying that given where NYG is at as a franchise, the stakes are very high and there is not much time for learning curves or development. Joe Judge just found that out very quickly, as will whoever replaces him if they are not winning by early to mid year 2 at the latest. Hell, you will have people revolt by mid season 2022 if things don’t look the way they expect.
Doubt that will happen again.
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In comment 15566995 jeff57 said:
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In comment 15566965 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566892 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566874 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15566782 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15566777 Sammo85 said:
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In comment 15566761 AnishPatel said:
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In comment 15566752 Big Blue '56 said:
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If he doesn’t call the plays, I believe it would be a talent wasted. If Jones is really his guy or we draft a QB, I want him placing them in the best position to win, each game.
As a fan, if he doesn’t call the plays a la Reid and many others, I would rather we hire someone else
Hi '56, Hope you're doing well.
Maybe Daboll brings Ken Dorsey over from the Bills.
No chance. Dorsey will be the OC there. Allen loves him. McDermott loves him.
A lot of Bills fans want Daboll gone so Dorsey becomes OC. I’ve found Bills fans to be very very lukewarm on Daboll and supposedly McDermott and Daboll have clashed a bit since last year and aren’t seeing eye to eye. I’m not sold on him as our HC answer.
First time hearing this.
I’m uncomfortable feeling like Daboll might be a foregone conclusion with the likes of Harbaugh, Flores and Quinn either available or rumored to be interested.
Why would Flores (or Quinn) give you any pause? You prefer established failures to new opportunity?
I didn’t say those guys wouldn’t come with risks did I? Making a simple point that there are lots of different options out there for Daboll to be viewed as a favorite after 2 interviews have been conducted.
Ok, so indulge me on this: what's good about Flores that is different from Judge?
Has two winning seasons as an NFL head coach.
Cool, you can read the agate page.
What about his coaching style makes you think he'd be an improvement over Judge?
And if all you want is an experienced HC with a winning record, why aren't you clamoring for Nagy?
You shouldn't want either of them, but I'm curious why anyone likes Flores.
The answer is because Flores is not your typical retread. He doesn’t bring some extended body of mediocre work. You can make an argument his program was on the way up. He had a bust of a QB that apparently he did not want. You can hire a guy like Flores and logically expect that there are several things he won’t need to re-learn that will exist for a true first year guy. I’d also expect someone in their 2nd opportunity to have a list of things they know right off the bat they need to do differently.
I’m not telling you it’s impossible for Daboll to be great here. Just saying that given where NYG is at as a franchise, the stakes are very high and there is not much time for learning curves or development. Joe Judge just found that out very quickly, as will whoever replaces him if they are not winning by early to mid year 2 at the latest. Hell, you will have people revolt by mid season 2022 if things don’t look the way they expect.
Very fair thoughts, I appreciate you detailing your POV.
I guess my reluctance to embrace Flores is actually similar to other fans' hesitation about Daboll.
Where some fans are gunshy about yet another first-time head coach (Daboll) because of our recent HC failures (most recently, Judge), I am nervous about another Patriots disciple with a tough-guy approach, conservative strategy, and lack of success on the offensive side of the ball. These are similarities that I see between Flores and Judge.
And to the extent that some would be inclined to retain Graham as DC, I don't see how that happens with Flores. TBH, it's probably unlikely no matter what, but I don't know why Graham would want to work for Flores again when he sought an opportunity to leave Flores' staff two years ago.