Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
He also needs a competent offensive coaching staff and system, which he hasnt had since his rookie year when he threw for 24 TDs
I think his rookie year was the typical Shurmur system stat inflation. Case Keenum had a career year under him and crapped out in the playoffs. Where is Keenum now?
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
That’s a great question, I don’t have the answer to. Maybe it’s the 2023 draft, maybe you scout Pickett and Corral and determine if they have that ability. Giants are in a tough spot, but not one they can’t dig out of with great management, which hopefully they have now.
I swear fans would have been divided on taking a OL or QB first overall because "why take a QB when your team sucks". No, when there is a potential franchise QB available, not a Daniel Jones project, but a legit potential elite franchise QB, you take him. Bengals did, and 2 years later are in the AFC Championship
Is there a cream cut franchise QB in this draft? I don’t see it. Malik Willis has intriguing upside but the rest of the crop looks average at best. 2023 is the year to make a move for a QB IF Jones doesn’t make the jump.
Are people really saying that around here? I think the point of contention is that Corral, et al are no where near the prospects Burrow was.
Burrow was as obvious a player as a slap in the face. The point of contention is that no one wants to even look at QBs if it's not a pick so easy a guy off the street could make the pick.
There were people that didn't love Herbert. I was one of them. I also hated Allen. They were not obvious slam dunk picks.
Picking a QB is hard and also you have to get in the game to be able to strike it rich because it can change the trajectory of your franchise.
Burrow was as obvious a player as a slap in the face. The point of contention is that no one wants to even look at QBs if it's not a pick so easy a guy off the street could make the pick.
There were people that didn't love Herbert. I was one of them. I also hated Allen. They were not obvious slam dunk picks.
Picking a QB is hard and also you have to get in the game to be able to strike it rich because it can change the trajectory of your franchise.
I didn't love Herbert or Allen either, but if we had drafted them I could understand why based on ceiling alone. They both had tremendous physical traits.
Daniel Jones at #6 never made any sense from any angle really. I realize this team is going to have to gamble on a mid 1st round QB at some point to get back into the game unless they have the misfortune of drafting #1 or #2 overall in the next couple years. At the same time I'd hate to pick another Jones and watch another 3 years go by before we admit the mistake. Who is the high ceiling guy in 2022? Malik Willis? Sam Howell?
I'll wait for the final word from the experts but I'm not excited so far.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
That’s a great question, I don’t have the answer to. Maybe it’s the 2023 draft, maybe you scout Pickett and Corral and determine if they have that ability. Giants are in a tough spot, but not one they can’t dig out of with great management, which hopefully they have now.
Agree. If Schoen and staff think there is a franchise QB in this draft in Corral, Pickett, or even Willis, then do it; otherwise, acquire as much talent out of this coming draft on OLine and DLine and get that QB in 2023. The good news is that it is looking like the draft is lining up favorable for their most glaring weaknesses with the exception of quarterback. I think not getting Herbert was the biggest missed opportunity for the Giants, but it’s all in the past. Saying Would’ve, could’ve, I should’ve, is not going to do anything for the Giants now. I am so damn glad and happy that Mara’s listened to their critiques. So, we think. 2022 is going to be Schoen’s biggest opportunity to cash in on his inherited draft capital. 2023 should be another high draft pick.
Daniel Jones at #6 never made any sense from any angle really. I realize this team is going to have to gamble on a mid 1st round QB at some point to get back into the game unless they have the misfortune of drafting #1 or #2 overall in the next couple years. At the same time I'd hate to pick another Jones and watch another 3 years go by before we admit the mistake. Who is the high ceiling guy in 2022? Malik Willis? Sam Howell?
I'll wait for the final word from the experts but I'm not excited so far.
Willis is absolutely the ceiling guy in this year’s crop.
And a damn good RB in Mixon who blocks and fights for tough yardage.
Mixon dropped because he punched a girl in the face on video before the draft. Most here wanted him arrested and now a few years later people are ignoring it. He is super talented and dropped to the bengals int he second round and seems to have kept his shit together. Please don't make them out to be a godsend of a franchise at drafting.
RE: There's no sense in forcing a qb pick when there isn't on worth
100% agree, but you gotta rely on quality scouts and then take the chance sometimes. Allen wasn’t Allen now in the draft, Herbert had questions. You have to look at the athletic measurables and acumen for the game and then roll the dice. Unfortunately, Jones had neither of those things and was completely over drafted. Doesn’t mean that’s the case for every qb.
Good thread. Great point. You're right they're wrong. The Giants stink at everything they have done for the past 10 years which includes drafting Daniel Jones. Why? Because he stinks as well. What you're getting here is a lot of fans are in denial and have been in denial for nearly 10 years.
We can keep sticking to our moral victories while players and quarterbacks in particular get drafted around the league as time passes by and we're still stuck debating whether or not Daniel Jones gets a "fair shake" in year four or five.
Not because I think you MUST fix the OL first. But, because I don't think a true franchise QB is there. There are QBs I like a little, but not enougt the franchise on.
I'm all for moving on from Jones. But, is there a guy this year who screams out at you as a guy who can put the team on his back and win games?
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
I think the OP forgot the three losing seasons before 2019
I'm neutral in this, so keep that in mind. I think the point of selecting 2019 as the starting point is that led to them drafting Burrow with no OL and they still have a bad OL.
It is a counter to those here saying we need to fix the OL first first then evaluate Jones. I sort of fall o to that camp, but only because I don't love this QB class enough to make one a top 7 pick and because Jones still has 1 cheap season left. I don't love Jones. But, I don't love this draft any more
this year's draft class. What seems to be glossed over is the fact that of the best QB's in the NFL, only Burrow and Stafford were undisputed #1 overall picks coming out without major flaws. Burrow is the exception, not the rule.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If the Giants believed that they wouldn’t have drafted Jones. Think things through before you make outrageous statements.
And #2 WR.
He also needs a competent offensive coaching staff and system, which he hasnt had since his rookie year when he threw for 24 TDs
Are people really saying that around here? I think the point of contention is that Corral, et al are no where near the prospects Burrow was.
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In comment 15567685 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
This should be fucking pinned. So true.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
Cincinnati is a horrible franchise to play for...
Idk if burrow ever actually considered it, but the idea of him pulling an Eli because CIN was that bad was bandied about heading into the draft.
And now they're in the AFCCG
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"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
Are people really saying that around here? I think the point of contention is that Corral, et al are no where near the prospects Burrow was.
Yep
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Playmakers everywhere before we judge him...🙄🙄🙄
He also needs a competent offensive coaching staff and system, which he hasnt had since his rookie year when he threw for 24 TDs
I think his rookie year was the typical Shurmur system stat inflation. Case Keenum had a career year under him and crapped out in the playoffs. Where is Keenum now?
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In comment 15567698 Sean said:
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In comment 15567685 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
This should be fucking pinned. So true.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
That’s a great question, I don’t have the answer to. Maybe it’s the 2023 draft, maybe you scout Pickett and Corral and determine if they have that ability. Giants are in a tough spot, but not one they can’t dig out of with great management, which hopefully they have now.
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Mike Brown is one of the worst, cheapest owners in the NFL.
Cincinnati is a horrible franchise to play for...
Idk if burrow ever actually considered it, but the idea of him pulling an Eli because CIN was that bad was bandied about heading into the draft.
And now they're in the AFCCG
He didn’t. He embraced the challenge being an Ohio kid and said that wasn’t him. He wanted challenge of lifting a team out of the depths.
Now go watch the video of Daniel Jones the last three years.
And a damn good RB in Mixon who blocks and fights for tough yardage.
Idk if burrow ever actually considered it, but the idea of him pulling an Eli because CIN was that bad was bandied about heading into the draft.
And now they're in the AFCCG
He didn’t. He embraced the challenge being an Ohio kid and said that wasn’t him. He wanted challenge of lifting a team out of the depths.
Credit to him because Brown is an awful owner, worse than Spanos and A.J. Smith.
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"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
Are people really saying that around here? I think the point of contention is that Corral, et al are no where near the prospects Burrow was.
Burrow was as obvious a player as a slap in the face. The point of contention is that no one wants to even look at QBs if it's not a pick so easy a guy off the street could make the pick.
There were people that didn't love Herbert. I was one of them. I also hated Allen. They were not obvious slam dunk picks.
Picking a QB is hard and also you have to get in the game to be able to strike it rich because it can change the trajectory of your franchise.
Burrow was as obvious a player as a slap in the face. The point of contention is that no one wants to even look at QBs if it's not a pick so easy a guy off the street could make the pick.
There were people that didn't love Herbert. I was one of them. I also hated Allen. They were not obvious slam dunk picks.
Picking a QB is hard and also you have to get in the game to be able to strike it rich because it can change the trajectory of your franchise.
I didn't love Herbert or Allen either, but if we had drafted them I could understand why based on ceiling alone. They both had tremendous physical traits.
Daniel Jones at #6 never made any sense from any angle really. I realize this team is going to have to gamble on a mid 1st round QB at some point to get back into the game unless they have the misfortune of drafting #1 or #2 overall in the next couple years. At the same time I'd hate to pick another Jones and watch another 3 years go by before we admit the mistake. Who is the high ceiling guy in 2022? Malik Willis? Sam Howell?
I'll wait for the final word from the experts but I'm not excited so far.
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In comment 15567719 lax counsel said:
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In comment 15567698 Sean said:
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In comment 15567685 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
This should be fucking pinned. So true.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If you are the Giants right now, where do you get the stud?
That’s a great question, I don’t have the answer to. Maybe it’s the 2023 draft, maybe you scout Pickett and Corral and determine if they have that ability. Giants are in a tough spot, but not one they can’t dig out of with great management, which hopefully they have now.
Agree. If Schoen and staff think there is a franchise QB in this draft in Corral, Pickett, or even Willis, then do it; otherwise, acquire as much talent out of this coming draft on OLine and DLine and get that QB in 2023. The good news is that it is looking like the draft is lining up favorable for their most glaring weaknesses with the exception of quarterback. I think not getting Herbert was the biggest missed opportunity for the Giants, but it’s all in the past. Saying Would’ve, could’ve, I should’ve, is not going to do anything for the Giants now. I am so damn glad and happy that Mara’s listened to their critiques. So, we think. 2022 is going to be Schoen’s biggest opportunity to cash in on his inherited draft capital. 2023 should be another high draft pick.
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
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The Bengals only started rebuilding since 2020?
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
I must have missed how they beat the Titans then ended up in the NFC championship game 🙄
Now go watch the video of Daniel Jones the last three years.
Once again, let's be clear in terms of how much worse the Giants line is:
Billy Price - our starting OC, couldn't even make the Bengals roster.
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In comment 15567781 robbieballs2003 said:
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The Bengals only started rebuilding since 2020?
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
I must have missed how they beat the Titans then ended up in the NFC championship game 🙄
Obviously an error on my part, but that’s obvious. 2-14 to AFC title game in 2 years. Some fans offended though I guess.
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"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
+infinity
There's no Burrow in this draft...just more DJs in the top 10.
Daniel Jones at #6 never made any sense from any angle really. I realize this team is going to have to gamble on a mid 1st round QB at some point to get back into the game unless they have the misfortune of drafting #1 or #2 overall in the next couple years. At the same time I'd hate to pick another Jones and watch another 3 years go by before we admit the mistake. Who is the high ceiling guy in 2022? Malik Willis? Sam Howell?
I'll wait for the final word from the experts but I'm not excited so far.
Willis is absolutely the ceiling guy in this year’s crop.
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The Bengals only started rebuilding since 2020?
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
I think the OP forgot the three losing seasons before 2019
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and elite #1 WR.
And a damn good RB in Mixon who blocks and fights for tough yardage.
Mixon dropped because he punched a girl in the face on video before the draft. Most here wanted him arrested and now a few years later people are ignoring it. He is super talented and dropped to the bengals int he second round and seems to have kept his shit together. Please don't make them out to be a godsend of a franchise at drafting.
100% agree, but you gotta rely on quality scouts and then take the chance sometimes. Allen wasn’t Allen now in the draft, Herbert had questions. You have to look at the athletic measurables and acumen for the game and then roll the dice. Unfortunately, Jones had neither of those things and was completely over drafted. Doesn’t mean that’s the case for every qb.
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and elite #1 WR.
And #2 WR.
Eh, he's talented but ten cent head.
He reminds me a lot of prime Eli, and he's just a kid. He took a beating today.
The AFC North is going to be Bengals/Ravens slugfests for the foreseeable future, imho.
We can keep sticking to our moral victories while players and quarterbacks in particular get drafted around the league as time passes by and we're still stuck debating whether or not Daniel Jones gets a "fair shake" in year four or five.
I'm all for moving on from Jones. But, is there a guy this year who screams out at you as a guy who can put the team on his back and win games?
There are are three guys that probably do not belong in the top 15 in this class.
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In comment 15567781 robbieballs2003 said:
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The Bengals only started rebuilding since 2020?
They were 2-14 in 2019 & in the NFC title game 2 years later.
I think the OP forgot the three losing seasons before 2019
It is a counter to those here saying we need to fix the OL first first then evaluate Jones. I sort of fall o to that camp, but only because I don't love this QB class enough to make one a top 7 pick and because Jones still has 1 cheap season left. I don't love Jones. But, I don't love this draft any more
Quote:
In comment 15567685 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
"Cant draft a QB yet. This OL would ruin him. "
This should be fucking pinned. So true.
Unfortunately there are still some on BBI that, like the giants , believe you don’t draft a qb till everything is perfect, and then all the qb has to be is a game manager, I.e. building a team for 1985. No more booing Jones turns into a medicore qb, go for the stud whenever he presents himself at whatever time.
If the Giants believed that they wouldn’t have drafted Jones. Think things through before you make outrageous statements.
Absolutely.
Burrow is a joy to watch. He might already be the best QB in football.
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best QB in football..Talented and fearless
Absolutely.
Burrow is a joy to watch. He might already be the best QB in football.
Mahomes still holds the reigns.
But Mahomes, Allen, burrow, and herbert are joys to watch.
There are are three guys that probably do not belong in the top 15 in this class.
I think it's fair to say Herbert and Allen weren't consensus "Herbert or Allen" tier guys either. They were not "can't miss" guys.
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or Burrow in this year's class?
There are are three guys that probably do not belong in the top 15 in this class.
I think it's fair to say Herbert and Allen weren't consensus "Herbert or Allen" tier guys either. They were not "can't miss" guys.
They were at some point in that conversation before the draft.
Either way, the right guy in the wrong system and locker room isn't going to reach his ceiling.