Flores is the best available man for that job, and the Giants should hire him to replace his old New England colleague, Judge. As coach of the Dolphins, Flores won 19 games over the last two seasons with quarterbacks less physically talented than Daniel Jones. He beat former boss Bill Belichick four times in three years, and inspired his players to compete at a high level even when times were grim.
Schoen’s guy in Buffalo, Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, is likely the candidate to beat, given his outstanding work with Josh Allen and the sad state of the Giants’ offense. Daboll could end up reuniting with his former Alabama quarterback, Tagovailoa, and deploying his institutional AFC East knowledge in Miami, but you could certainly make a good case for him as the next Giants head coach. It’s just not as good as the case for Flores. |
Some asinine mumbo jumbo about OCs and relationships. IDK.
Rumors he's tough to get along with and not a great communicator. He turned Miami around and got fired...gotta be rubbing someone the wrong way for that to happen. Who knows what's true but Giants better do some serious homework on this one.
He's a helluva lot like Judge. Super conservative, demeanor with subordinates, etc. I'm just not interested in yet another coach trying to franchise Belichicks secret sauce.
1. He had trouble getting good coaches around him.
2. He is difficult to work with.
3. Has a tough guy approach that may not lead to long term success.
4. He stopped communicating with his assistants during his winning streak this year.
You have to think critically about this. We all love the record he had in Miami with the lack of talent. But if he performed so well, why was he fired? There was a reason he was fired so why would Miami want to go in a new direction.
Imo, some guys will suck anywhere but others need the right situation. Maybe a different organization will be a home run like NE was for Belichick. It is all how people work together. Getting the best person at each position usually leads to disappointment. We don't need the best at each position. We need the best group that works great together. None of us know these answers so it is hard to feel one way or another.
Jones doesn't do anything well. He's not that talented. And he has zero instincts for the position.
I don't get the love affair with Flores.
Sometimes, owners do dumb shit.
Getting an experienced offensive playcaller and QB developer like Daboll is appealing but head coach is first a leadership position. If he thinks Daboll is a special leader that's one thing but if not then Flores is the better choice. Flores was literally what many of us were hoping we were getting in judge. Daboll could be Pat Shurmur. Or he could be Sean McVay. The odds say it's a lot more likely to be the former.
I wouldn't mind seeing them inquire with Pederson and Harbough though.
Sometimes, owners do dumb shit.
It's definitely possible but there still was a reason and it has to be investigated.
Jones doesn't do anything well. He's not that talented. And he has zero instincts for the position.
I don't get the love affair with Flores.
Tua is a garbage QB. He has the physical ability of a career backup. That also describes a 37-38 year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick. Winning 19 games with those two (and Jacoby Brissett) isn’t as easy as some on BBI would have you believe.
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does less physically talented than Jones mean?
Jones doesn't do anything well. He's not that talented. And he has zero instincts for the position.
I don't get the love affair with Flores.
Tua is a garbage QB. He has the physical ability of a career backup. That also describes a 37-38 year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick. Winning 19 games with those two (and Jacoby Brissett) isn’t as easy as some on BBI would have you believe.
And no OL and no running game.
Mangini got fired after 9-7 year with Jets. Had 2 winning seasons out of 3. Gets fired, Browns hire him because people felt like he got a raw deal in new york and had a good record. Rumors of him being difficult to get along with. He was a former Belichick coordinator. A lot of parallels.
He went to Cleveland and in two seasons in cleveland he was 10-22.
There are too many red flags with Flores for me. He has gone through offensive coordinators every year too which is a huge problem. This team needs a great offensive mind, either as their head coach or as coordinator, and there's nothing that leads me to believe Flores will be able to find a great OC.
Jones doesn't do anything well. He's not that talented. And he has zero instincts for the position.
I don't get the love affair with Flores.
Jones’ physical talent is enough to be a really good NFL QB. It’s between his ears that is the problem.
Patriots twice (first game against a rookie QB and the patriots weren't playing well early at all and the first one was week 1)
Then they lost 7 in a row, one of them to the Jaguars.
Their wins this year were the following outside of the 2 against Patriots.
Houston
Baltimore
Jets (x2)
Giants
Panthers
Saints (with Ian Book starting and the Saints being without their top 3 QB's)
Let's not act like they beat a bunch of decent or good teams. 6 of their 9 wins were against absolutely dreadful teams.
Their record had more to do with playing total shit teams than it did Flores doing some great job getting their season turned around. The Saints team they played if that team played for 17 games they would have gone 0-17, they couldnt move the ball an inch.
His resume just isnt impressive enough to ignore the red flags like most are doing.
Houston
Baltimore
Jets twice
Carolina
Giants
Saints [Ian Book was the starting QB]
New England
Baltimore is the only quality win there. New England was clearly spent at the end of the season. The other wins were against tomato cans.
Their loss in that stretch was against Tennessee.
Patriots twice (first game against a rookie QB and the patriots weren't playing well early at all and the first one was week 1)
Then they lost 7 in a row, one of them to the Jaguars.
Their wins this year were the following outside of the 2 against Patriots.
Houston
Baltimore
Jets (x2)
Giants
Panthers
Saints (with Ian Book starting and the Saints being without their top 3 QB's)
Let's not act like they beat a bunch of decent or good teams. 6 of their 9 wins were against absolutely dreadful teams.
Their record had more to do with playing total shit teams than it did Flores doing some great job getting their season turned around. The Saints team they played if that team played for 17 games they would have gone 0-17, they couldnt move the ball an inch.
His resume just isnt impressive enough to ignore the red flags like most are doing.
Beat me to it, but let's be clear, that Saints team would've blown out the Giants the last 3-4 weeks of the season.
Mangini got fired after 9-7 year with Jets. Had 2 winning seasons out of 3. Gets fired, Browns hire him because people felt like he got a raw deal in new york and had a good record. Rumors of him being difficult to get along with. He was a former Belichick coordinator. A lot of parallels.
He went to Cleveland and in two seasons in cleveland he was 10-22.
There are too many red flags with Flores for me. He has gone through offensive coordinators every year too which is a huge problem. This team needs a great offensive mind, either as their head coach or as coordinator, and there's nothing that leads me to believe Flores will be able to find a great OC.
Mangini’s QBs were Chad Pennington and Brett Favre! Both of those guys left the Jets and won division titles the following season with their new teams.
Do you see any division titles in the future of Tua, Fitzmagic, or Jacoby Brissett?
I have no idea who the Dolphins OC was this season. I do know that they got EVERYTHING that they possibly could out of Waddle and Gesicki considering the lack of talent that the Dolphins had at QB and along the OL. As long as Flores doesn’t allow himself to be arm twisted into hiring a bum like Jason Garrett, that’s a win already.
Houston
Baltimore
Jets twice
Carolina
Giants
Saints [Ian Book was the starting QB]
New England
Baltimore is the only quality win there. New England was clearly spent at the end of the season. The other wins were against tomato cans.
Their loss in that stretch was against Tennessee.
Umm… the Dolphins aren’t any good either. The fact that they are winning that amount of games regardless of opponent says a lot about their coach.
If you look at the postgame thread from the Giants-Dolphins game (when no one knew Flores would be available), here’s what I said.
- Dolphins aren’t good, in terms of talent
- Waddle is special
- They’re really well coached
The Giants don’t play in the NFC South. Defensive football is historically what has won for them
Houston
Baltimore
Jets twice
Carolina
Giants
Saints [Ian Book was the starting QB]
New England
Baltimore is the only quality win there. New England was clearly spent at the end of the season. The other wins were against tomato cans.
Their loss in that stretch was against Tennessee.
Now do the 10 games he won last year.
Daboll is a complete unknown as a HC, and his offenses stunk until the last two years
Why 49ers DC DeMeco Ryans is At Least as Good as Robert Saleh - ( New Window )
That's who I want.
Joe Judge was respected by people too. I’d rather have someone we KNOW can do the job.
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I'd prefer DeMeco Ryans over Flores. Dude is respected by everyone and everyone who knows him says they respect him.
Joe Judge was respected by people too. I’d rather have someone we KNOW can do the job.
Then you're gonna lose out on a lot of potentially good people.
Flores is likely Joe Judge part 2.
Daboll, seems he did not do much until Josh Allen, although now the Bills look great. I suppose I could get behind it if they hired Fangio as DC and Zimmer as OC.
I would have hoped that they spoke with Leftwich and Ryans, but now they have to wait until SF and TB lose.
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He turned Miami around and got fired...
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Some asinine mumbo jumbo about OCs and relationships. IDK.
What's asinine about it? He went through 4 offensive coordinators in three years. That's not normal, and part of the reason they didn't make the playoffs in 3 seasons and Tua hasn't developed.
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In comment 15567996 BlackLight said:
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Some asinine mumbo jumbo about OCs and relationships. IDK.
What's asinine about it? He went through 4 offensive coordinators in three years. That's not normal, and part of the reason they didn't make the playoffs in 3 seasons and Tua hasn't developed.
Tua is a shitty QB. He is not developing with anyone.
But I agree that Flores personality seems to be an issue.
He’s not reporting anything here. It’s an opinion piece
Sign him
Sign him
I like Flores, and I liked Judge. I think it’s important to realize Flores will be very similar to Judge:
-Conservative play calling, play for field position
-Rely on an OC to run the offense (and hope he doesn’t leave for a HC position)
-Make players run laps
-Extremely demanding on assistants
Judge seems like he has better people skills than Flores. These aren’t negatives, but I think they are important when making the decision.
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They can frame their reports any way they care to out of Miami, but Stephen Ross is far more the prick than Flores is or will ever be imo..
Sign him
I like Flores, and I liked Judge. I think it’s important to realize Flores will be very similar to Judge:
-Conservative play calling, play for field position
-Rely on an OC to run the offense (and hope he doesn’t leave for a HC position)
-Make players run laps
-Extremely demanding on assistants
Judge seems like he has better people skills than Flores. These aren’t negatives, but I think they are important when making the decision.
Certainly. Except, Flores won. Judge couldn’t. They both had reasonable excuses, yet one overcame them..
He’s a fu*king New Yorker..😎
This is how Mara operates. Big on optics.
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However, let's look at who they beat in that 8-1 stretch to close the season:
Houston
Baltimore
Jets twice
Carolina
Giants
Saints [Ian Book was the starting QB]
New England
Baltimore is the only quality win there. New England was clearly spent at the end of the season. The other wins were against tomato cans.
Their loss in that stretch was against Tennessee.
Now do the 10 games he won last year.
Sure, and while we're at it, let's talk about McAdoo's 11-5 season.
Pick the one with the least warts and the most enthusiasm...
Pick the one with the least warts and the most enthusiasm...
Yup
1. He had trouble getting good coaches around him.
2. He is difficult to work with.
3. Has a tough guy approach that may not lead to long term success.
4. He stopped communicating with his assistants during his winning streak this year.
You have to think critically about this. We all love the record he had in Miami with the lack of talent. But if he performed so well, why was he fired? There was a reason he was fired so why would Miami want to go in a new direction.
Imo, some guys will suck anywhere but others need the right situation. Maybe a different organization will be a home run like NE was for Belichick. It is all how people work together. Getting the best person at each position usually leads to disappointment. We don't need the best at each position. We need the best group that works great together. None of us know these answers so it is hard to feel one way or another.
Kinda sounds like Billy Martin; whom the Yanks turned to several times for a turnaround - but he didn't have what it took for the stretch run.
Flores is likely Joe Judge part 2.
Daboll, seems he did not do much until Josh Allen, although now the Bills look great. I suppose I could get behind it if they hired Fangio as DC and Zimmer as OC.
I would have hoped that they spoke with Leftwich and Ryans, but now they have to wait until SF and TB lose.
Why do you keep posting that you want Zimmer as OC when Zimmer is a defensive coach?
1. He had trouble getting good coaches around him.
2. He is difficult to work with.
3. Has a tough guy approach that may not lead to long term success.
4. He stopped communicating with his assistants during his winning streak this year.
You have to think critically about this. We all love the record he had in Miami with the lack of talent. But if he performed so well, why was he fired? There was a reason he was fired so why would Miami want to go in a new direction.
Imo, some guys will suck anywhere but others need the right situation. Maybe a different organization will be a home run like NE was for Belichick. It is all how people work together. Getting the best person at each position usually leads to disappointment. We don't need the best at each position. We need the best group that works great together. None of us know these answers so it is hard to feel one way or another.
The first 3 points probably have some truth to them, but Bill Parcells was often difficult to work with. And I don’t buy point 4 at all. That reeks of spin by the Dolphins. Think about this, he stopped communicating with his own assistants mid-season, and the FO did nothing about it? They’re either lying or utterly incompetent, there is no middle ground.
To have a HC stop communicating with his own assistants is mutiny, and he should have been fired on the spot, with cause. If the Dolphins are paying off his contract, that would be a sign that this story is 100% unadulterated BS.
If the goal is to build a football program, you can't be worried that your HC is going to wear out his welcome that fast. That's one draft class cycle.
If the goal is to build a football program, you can't be worried that your HC is going to wear out his welcome that fast. That's one draft class cycle.
Great points, but I don’t see any evidence that Flores wore out his welcome with his players. Year 1, the team that most analysts questioned if they would win a game, went 5-4 down the stretch, including beating a Pats team in week 17 that was playing for a bye. Year 2 go 10-6, just missing a playoff bid with shaky play at QB. Year 3 win 7 in a row after a 1-7 start. That doesn’t sound like team s tuning out their HC.
All of the claims should be vetted, but I’m stunned at how many here uncritically accept the Dolphins versions of events, as if they have no reason to lie.
Daboll is a complete unknown as a HC, and his offenses stunk until the last two years
I'd like them to inquire if Jim Hardballs would be willing to "lighten up". If so, he'd be my pick.
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He's a helluva lot like Judge. Super conservative, demeanor with subordinates, etc. I'm just not interested in yet another coach trying to franchise Belichicks secret sauce.
Totally agree. Daboll and Flores seem to be the favorites, I definitely want Daboll. I have zero interest in Dan Quinn. That would deflate a lot of the Schoen fueled newfound confidence I have in the franchise if he's the guy.
Didn't Belichick give Judge a glowing recommendation ?
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between Belichick, Graham, and their other league contacts to be able to get a good picture of what kind of coach Flores is. If they decide to hire him I'm confident that it would be after they've done their due diligence in vetting what happened in Miami.
Didn't Belichick give Judge a glowing recommendation ?
Probably. But there's more people around the league outside of New England who have worked with Flores than compared to Judge. The presumption is that Belichick wouldn't be the only person they talk to about him.