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| The Giants desperately need to find out if Daniel Jones is their franchise quarterback once and for all. Yes, putting a reliable offensive line in front of him will go a long way toward helping them accomplish that objective. But even more so will be putting a strong and creative offensive system in place that caters to Jones’s strengths will be just as important as will establishing some sort of stability for the fourth-year signal-caller. |
The Giants also need WRs to stay healthy, they need TEs badly, and have RB depth concerns.
They have very little capital and buildup flexibility on offense next season.
Not to break your balls or anything, but if Jones wins a Super Bowl I'd hate to be you.
People have to stop with the OL excuse impeding an evaluation to this point. It’s disingenuous and false. Poor OL is a factor in weighting the evaluation but it is not a total pass continuously.
The one possible exception is Kirk Cousins - if you consider him very good - but that’s a special situation as he was a back up behind RGIII and started a total of 9 games in his first three years. But when he won the starting job in his 4th season, he immediately started putting up stats that Jones hasn’t sniffed.
Those of you saying the grade is incomplete are ignoring the fact that there’s simply no precedent for a QB with Jones’ history emerging.
The clock has struck. It’s past midnight.
Watch how Burrow played yesterday with an OL as bad as NYG’s. Yes, he has all-world talent at WR, but are our WR’s that bad, or is the QB not able to deliver?
The chances of seeing that right away are not likely. Rookie OL make a lot of mistakes and often struggle transitioning initially to speed and power of defenses at next level and complexity of the offenses. If Giants start three rookies on OL next year it’s going to get Jones killed.
The chances of seeing that right away are not likely. Rookie OL make a lot of mistakes and often struggle transitioning initially to speed and power of defenses at next level and complexity of the offenses. If Giants start three rookies on OL next year it’s going to get Jones killed.
I dunno, I think 10 years of ineptitude has warped our minds. Competent GMs find players who can contribute quickly.
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He has had no OL for 3 years, so you truly can't make it fair evaluation. You also have the neck injury that no ones is privy to knowing what the issue is or if its a long term concern. Which is why you need to fix the OL and front 7 on Defense with the 2 number ones this year or take a OL, trade back with 2nd one and pick up 2023 1st so that you are prepared but also able to try to compete this year
Watch how Burrow played yesterday with an OL as bad as NYG’s. Yes, he has all-world talent at WR, but are our WR’s that bad, or is the QB not able to deliver?
Our WRs are that bad or at least too often injured. Burrow also has a Pro Bowl running back helping him out.
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The chances of seeing that right away are not likely. Rookie OL make a lot of mistakes and often struggle transitioning initially to speed and power of defenses at next level and complexity of the offenses. If Giants start three rookies on OL next year it’s going to get Jones killed.
I dunno, I think 10 years of ineptitude has warped our minds. Competent GMs find players who can contribute quickly.
The problems the Giants have had the last ten years is finding some quick bandaids but with no clear comprehensive plan or vision. Patience and prudence is in order here than just flopping together a roster.
The key for next season with turnover at GM, HC, coaching staff, very little cap flexibility is questioning everything top to bottom and implementing changes that lead to better results. Folks here need to be realistic it’s going to be an observation and cleaning year in 2022 with baby steps and hopefully a retool in 2023.
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He has had no OL for 3 years, so you truly can't make it fair evaluation. You also have the neck injury that no ones is privy to knowing what the issue is or if its a long term concern. Which is why you need to fix the OL and front 7 on Defense with the 2 number ones this year or take a OL, trade back with 2nd one and pick up 2023 1st so that you are prepared but also able to try to compete this year
Watch how Burrow played yesterday with an OL as bad as NYG’s. Yes, he has all-world talent at WR, but are our WR’s that bad, or is the QB not able to deliver?
burrow has much more talent around him, and 65 yard screen pass to chase really helped. The defense and running game one the game for cincinnati yesterday not really burrow
+1
burrow has much more talent around him, and 65 yard screen pass to chase really helped. The defense and running game one the game for cincinnati yesterday not really burrow
burrow threw for 350 yards yesterday, against an all-world titans defense, in tennessee, to get his team to the conference championship game. he did this in his second year as a player, coming off a broken leg, with an OL every bit as bad as NYGs. the bengals hadn't won a playoff game in 30 some odd years. now you're trying to claim that burrow is just a casual observer along for the ride, who was carried by his defense and running game?
laughable man.
You can make a fair evaluation on Jones.
You just don't like what the grade would be...
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Spoiler alert...Daniel Jones is not a franchise QB.
Not to break your balls or anything, but if Jones wins a Super Bowl I'd hate to be you.
I doubt Jones ever wins ONE postseason game, much less a Super Bowl.
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He has had no OL for 3 years, so you truly can't make it fair evaluation. You also have the neck injury that no ones is privy to knowing what the issue is or if its a long term concern. Which is why you need to fix the OL and front 7 on Defense with the 2 number ones this year or take a OL, trade back with 2nd one and pick up 2023 1st so that you are prepared but also able to try to compete this year
Watch how Burrow played yesterday with an OL as bad as NYG’s. Yes, he has all-world talent at WR, but are our WR’s that bad, or is the QB not able to deliver?
Yes, our OL was worse. And that's not the whole story, as you pointed out. He has better receivers and running game. Burrow is a better QB no question, I love the guy, but that doesn't mean he is not in a better situation both talent and coaching wise. Our whole offense shit the bed after Shurmur left... not that it was all that great with him. But at least we could score points. And our OL was worse because of injuries. I agree with I think Robbie above, I feel his grade is still incomplete and he can be a good productive starter. At this point, it is what it is. It doesn't make sense to jettison him yet unless we got a great pick. Build up the team, especially the OL, bring the best QB available as competition, and focus on getting better. These guys aren't stupid, I am hopeful that Schoen will have a better handle on what to do than Gettleman. At this point I root for Giants players, including Jones. If we move on from him so be it, I'm fine with it as long as we start becoming a real competitive NFL team again.
He's apparently a pretty good basketball player -- have they thought about transforming into an NBA team to see if that's a better fit for him?
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Spoiler alert...Daniel Jones is not a franchise QB.
Not to break your balls or anything, but if Jones wins a Super Bowl I'd hate to be you.
You think people would be mad if the Giants win a Super Bowl?
Let me use an old BBI line that a guy who no longer posts used to say constantly on absurd takes...
"you just can't make this stuff up"
or anyone equally as good.
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We’re minimizing what Burrow did with a terrible oline when the same people get giddy when Jones throws for 200 yards and doesn’t turn it over. Good grief
Let me use an old BBI line that a guy who no longer posts used to say constantly on absurd takes...
"you just can't make this stuff up"
I just don’t get the clinging to Daniel Jones stuff. The Giants have moved on from way better players than Jones.
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Spoiler alert...Daniel Jones is not a franchise QB.
Not to break your balls or anything, but if Jones wins a Super Bowl I'd hate to be you.
Does him winning as a backup count? Because that’s the only way that’s happening.
Since there are no better options for next season, why not stop complaining about Jones and wait to see if he is medically cleared for next season
None of the Trubiskys or Mariotas are going to lead the Giants anywhere - they have already proven to be mediocre at best. So upgrade the OL and OC and see what Jones can do. If he is the same old Jones - well, thats why the Giants need to secure another 2023 1st rounder
Since there are no better options for next season, why not stop complaining about Jones and wait to see if he is medically cleared for next season
None of the Trubiskys or Mariotas are going to lead the Giants anywhere - they have already proven to be mediocre at best. So upgrade the OL and OC and see what Jones can do. If he is the same old Jones - well, thats why the Giants need to secure another 2023 1st rounder
Most of those Tds were in three games, the rest of that season was exactly like the past two. Herbert has had 2 different OCs, Burrow plays with a terrible offensive as we just witnessed. Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as either of the two. There’s no point in just handing him the job.
Tribusky would be an upgrade.
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In comment 15569239 ajr2456 said:
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We’re minimizing what Burrow did with a terrible oline when the same people get giddy when Jones throws for 200 yards and doesn’t turn it over. Good grief
Let me use an old BBI line that a guy who no longer posts used to say constantly on absurd takes...
"you just can't make this stuff up"
I just don’t get the clinging to Daniel Jones stuff. The Giants have moved on from way better players than Jones.
...and they stuck with QBs who had better talent around them and played worse (or, at least, not any better). Eli and Simms both sucked early on.
As it stands the Giants are largely stuck with a variety of awful options:
(a) Drafting a new QB of the future in a draft that doesn't have any clear top-of-the-line prospects. Don't kid yourselves, this 100% means using the 5th overall pick on a QB and very likely means using the 7th overall pick to trade up if they see a franchise QB prospect.
Even if this works out and the Giants get a prospect far better than Jones, said prospect is now saddled with the same supporting cast that Jones has been lugging about, so we have to hope that coaching staff can keep the prospect alive, productive, and learning while the front office builds a team around him quickly. I'm hopeful of course, but that's hardly an obvious solution and the Giants are way more likely to end up with a Mitch Trubisky reach over having a Patrick Mahomes fall into their laps.
(b) Signing a free agent QB to replace Jones - but the Giants cap situation makes a major investment in a QB nearly impossible. So they'd be signing someone off the scrap heap of non-starters/fringe players, using that player as a stopgap, and hoping to find a late-r round gem to develop or drafting someone next year, in either case further delaying any real progress out of the basement of the league.
(c) Bringing Jones back and seeing if a new OC, some injury luck, and the 5th/7th picks can show him as a viable starter.
I like Jones and actually believe he can be do this - but as the Giants have wasted the first three years of his rookie contract, the 'best' case scenario is he shows out next year and the Giants immediately have to pay him top tier QB money for one good year (scary) and his salary along with some awful Gettleman contracts will further hinder the Giants ability to build around him.
Basically everything sucks.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable for the Giants to take the position (as another person posted in this thread) that their best choice is to use this year to clear out the cap.
If that's the case, giving Jones the year to play over forcing a QB pick at the top of a draft that doesn't look great for it (or paying money for a FA QB) seems like a relatively low risk option. If he sucks, then you draft a QB in 2023 and re-set the rookie QB contract clock. And you'll have another high draft pick to do it with.
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Its that there are no better options for next year and he really hasnt played behind a good OL with a good OC. The one year that he had a bad OL and decent OC (Shurmur), he threw 24 TD passes in 12 games
Since there are no better options for next season, why not stop complaining about Jones and wait to see if he is medically cleared for next season
None of the Trubiskys or Mariotas are going to lead the Giants anywhere - they have already proven to be mediocre at best. So upgrade the OL and OC and see what Jones can do. If he is the same old Jones - well, thats why the Giants need to secure another 2023 1st rounder
Most of those Tds were in three games, the rest of that season was exactly like the past two. Herbert has had 2 different OCs, Burrow plays with a terrible offensive as we just witnessed. Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as either of the two. There’s no point in just handing him the job.
Tribusky would be an upgrade.
Who cares about an incremental upgrade for next season, which I dont grant you Trubisky is. Trubisky or the other failed QBs arent leading this team anywhere, so let Jones play out his contract with a better line and OC. If he is as bad as the failed vet QBs, you have lost nothing. If he becomes better with a better line and OC, you have found something
Burrow has a bad line but a great OC and world class receiver. Herbert had to change OCs but neither was as bad as what Jones had to deal with and the Chargers line was way better
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In comment 15569281 Snablats said:
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Its that there are no better options for next year and he really hasnt played behind a good OL with a good OC. The one year that he had a bad OL and decent OC (Shurmur), he threw 24 TD passes in 12 games
Since there are no better options for next season, why not stop complaining about Jones and wait to see if he is medically cleared for next season
None of the Trubiskys or Mariotas are going to lead the Giants anywhere - they have already proven to be mediocre at best. So upgrade the OL and OC and see what Jones can do. If he is the same old Jones - well, thats why the Giants need to secure another 2023 1st rounder
Most of those Tds were in three games, the rest of that season was exactly like the past two. Herbert has had 2 different OCs, Burrow plays with a terrible offensive as we just witnessed. Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as either of the two. There’s no point in just handing him the job.
Tribusky would be an upgrade.
Who cares about an incremental upgrade for next season, which I dont grant you Trubisky is. Trubisky or the other failed QBs arent leading this team anywhere, so let Jones play out his contract with a better line and OC. If he is as bad as the failed vet QBs, you have lost nothing. If he becomes better with a better line and OC, you have found something
Burrow has a bad line but a great OC and world class receiver. Herbert had to change OCs but neither was as bad as what Jones had to deal with and the Chargers line was way better
Jones is going to be here next year regardless. And Trubisky is definitely not any upgrade from where i am seated.
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In comment 15569281 Snablats said:
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Its that there are no better options for next year and he really hasnt played behind a good OL with a good OC. The one year that he had a bad OL and decent OC (Shurmur), he threw 24 TD passes in 12 games
Since there are no better options for next season, why not stop complaining about Jones and wait to see if he is medically cleared for next season
None of the Trubiskys or Mariotas are going to lead the Giants anywhere - they have already proven to be mediocre at best. So upgrade the OL and OC and see what Jones can do. If he is the same old Jones - well, thats why the Giants need to secure another 2023 1st rounder
Most of those Tds were in three games, the rest of that season was exactly like the past two. Herbert has had 2 different OCs, Burrow plays with a terrible offensive as we just witnessed. Jones isn’t in the same stratosphere as either of the two. There’s no point in just handing him the job.
Tribusky would be an upgrade.
Who cares about an incremental upgrade for next season, which I dont grant you Trubisky is. Trubisky or the other failed QBs arent leading this team anywhere, so let Jones play out his contract with a better line and OC. If he is as bad as the failed vet QBs, you have lost nothing. If he becomes better with a better line and OC, you have found something
Burrow has a bad line but a great OC and world class receiver. Herbert had to change OCs but neither was as bad as what Jones had to deal with and the Chargers line was way better
Trade Jones. Trubisky + a draft pick is more valuable than Jones.
I'd also bet large sums of money that DJ isn't going to amount to anything more than Mariota, Trubisky, Bortles, etc. There's plenty of tape on him from college and the NFL, giving him 22 is just hoping he's magically going to turn into something he never has been.
Wrong. I watch at a local sports bar with multiple TVs and I watch every game with at least two games directly alongside of the Giants. I keep urging people to do this, because then you will get a true sense of just how really fucking awful the Giants OL is. I watch the games with multiple Giants fans, and every single one whether they were Jones/Judge fans or not came to the realization that as bad as some OL and schemes are around the league, the Giants situation was worse. It gave me a ton of respect for Jones, actually. I'll say it again, I don't care at this point whether he is the guy I just want the Giants to be good. But I am also rooting for him.
Yeah how long does he get before people realize this
It’s like how I keep reading Lorenzo Carter is on the brink of becoming a great pass rusher
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Games that aren’t the Giants. Jones stinks. Davis Mills was better than him this year. What’s the reasoning behind that?
Wrong. I watch at a local sports bar with multiple TVs and I watch every game with at least two games directly alongside of the Giants. I keep urging people to do this, because then you will get a true sense of just how really fucking awful the Giants OL is. I watch the games with multiple Giants fans, and every single one whether they were Jones/Judge fans or not came to the realization that as bad as some OL and schemes are around the league, the Giants situation was worse. It gave me a ton of respect for Jones, actually. I'll say it again, I don't care at this point whether he is the guy I just want the Giants to be good. But I am also rooting for him.
We just watched Burrow get sacked 9 times. 11 if you count the ones that happened on dead plays. There are lines just as bad as the Giants, stop living in a fantasy land
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In comment 15569351 ajr2456 said:
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Games that aren’t the Giants. Jones stinks. Davis Mills was better than him this year. What’s the reasoning behind that?
Wrong. I watch at a local sports bar with multiple TVs and I watch every game with at least two games directly alongside of the Giants. I keep urging people to do this, because then you will get a true sense of just how really fucking awful the Giants OL is. I watch the games with multiple Giants fans, and every single one whether they were Jones/Judge fans or not came to the realization that as bad as some OL and schemes are around the league, the Giants situation was worse. It gave me a ton of respect for Jones, actually. I'll say it again, I don't care at this point whether he is the guy I just want the Giants to be good. But I am also rooting for him.
We just watched Burrow get sacked 9 times. 11 if you count the ones that happened on dead plays. There are lines just as bad as the Giants, stop living in a fantasy land
Whatever. Fucking condescending dick head.
That is such a remote possibility. The Bills are not going to allow Dorsey to interview anywhere if they lose Daboll (whether it's to us or any other team).
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In comment 15569413 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15569351 ajr2456 said:
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Games that aren’t the Giants. Jones stinks. Davis Mills was better than him this year. What’s the reasoning behind that?
Wrong. I watch at a local sports bar with multiple TVs and I watch every game with at least two games directly alongside of the Giants. I keep urging people to do this, because then you will get a true sense of just how really fucking awful the Giants OL is. I watch the games with multiple Giants fans, and every single one whether they were Jones/Judge fans or not came to the realization that as bad as some OL and schemes are around the league, the Giants situation was worse. It gave me a ton of respect for Jones, actually. I'll say it again, I don't care at this point whether he is the guy I just want the Giants to be good. But I am also rooting for him.
We just watched Burrow get sacked 9 times. 11 if you count the ones that happened on dead plays. There are lines just as bad as the Giants, stop living in a fantasy land
Whatever. Fucking condescending dick head.
Yeah, AJR, get over yourself! Johnny watches games at a bar!
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In comment 15569527 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15569413 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15569351 ajr2456 said:
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Games that aren’t the Giants. Jones stinks. Davis Mills was better than him this year. What’s the reasoning behind that?
Wrong. I watch at a local sports bar with multiple TVs and I watch every game with at least two games directly alongside of the Giants. I keep urging people to do this, because then you will get a true sense of just how really fucking awful the Giants OL is. I watch the games with multiple Giants fans, and every single one whether they were Jones/Judge fans or not came to the realization that as bad as some OL and schemes are around the league, the Giants situation was worse. It gave me a ton of respect for Jones, actually. I'll say it again, I don't care at this point whether he is the guy I just want the Giants to be good. But I am also rooting for him.
We just watched Burrow get sacked 9 times. 11 if you count the ones that happened on dead plays. There are lines just as bad as the Giants, stop living in a fantasy land
Whatever. Fucking condescending dick head.
Yeah, AJR, get over yourself! Johnny watches games at a bar!
Piss off dick head.