pointing to Pickett's supporting cast is a bit of an odd move when he was throwing to the biletnikoff winner.
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Have a feeling Schoen won’t like Corral. Not big enough and fairly slight of frame.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
Here’s a scenario I’d like. Take best available player at 5. Likely Stingley or Hamilton in that spot if they are available. Trade 7 to move back 10 spots or so if there’s a deal out there. Then seriously consider Pickett if available and you’ve got a ton more draft capital left in 2022 draft to figure out OL and even more picks in 2023.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Overlooked is when a QB becomes a legit top guy and
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
of going ONE season without a franchise caliber quarterback or potential future franchise quarterback and the Giants panic picked Daniel Jones, a guy who had no right going #6 overall.
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
I assume you're going to say you weren't comparing the players, but rather "their routes", which were just as different as the players.
Pickett was 3 star recruit who made 50+ CFB starts playing mostly mediocre football until the extra year he only got because of covid, then won a mediocre (at best) conference. Credit to him, he has some tools and there's a chance something clicked and he's a late bloomer (I actually like Pickett, as I said he's just not on the same planet of prospect as Burrow).
Burrow was a 5 star recruit stuck behind a first round pick so he transferred into the powerhouse conference and in his 2nd season led his team to a historical national championship.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
and take Pickett, cool. If we take Pickett at 7, cool. Trust the new GM knows what he’s doing. If we pass on the QBs, it means Schoen and everyone else came to the consensus they they want to just make sure they get some awesome players before making a true decision on QB.
Pickett isn’t a #1 overall in the draft type player. That being said, you take him between 7-20 and he ends up being really good, it doesn’t really matter.
I'd feel a little more comfortable with taking a flyer on the QBs
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
i have a hard time thinking he's worth that kind of grade though because he simply wasn't tested much. the acc was trash. miami and fsu were terrible. clemson had their worst year in a decade. louisville and VT were bad. imagine the odds betting preseason on a Pitt vs. Wake ACCCG?
also Pickett compounded this concern by skipping the bowl game against MSU. they were no powerhouse but that would have been the highest quality opponent he played all year.
his ascent this year reminds me of Zach Wilson last year (who the jury is obviously very much out on).
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
My trade idea only works if Philly really, really likes a player and wants to trade up into the top 10 to get that player. But it's a thought. I'd also consider trading the Bears pick to say, the Jets and get another 1st rounder in 2023
Basically, I'm throwing another curveball into this conversation
I think we're having the wrong conversation. Instead of picking a QB in the top 10, trade the Bears pick for more picks and compile more draft capital to build the lines
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
1. No front office is going to give up on a high first round quarterback after an up and down rookie year. Cincinnati would have taken Fields or Mac Jones with that line of thinking...and then done what with Burrow? You need to see the year 1 to year 2 progression at the earliest to make that call.
2. Blowing high first round picks is a double whammy of getting a lousy player and the opportunity cost of missing out on what should be a sure high end starter. Who wants Daniel Jones followed by Herbert when you could have Josh Allen, Hockenson, Bush, Oliver, etc. followed by Herbert?
The real sin is a front office that can't tell the difference between Daniel Jones and a prospect worthy of #6 overall.
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Let me first say that I’m not personally a fan of Pickett. However, this discussion reminds me more of 2017 (ahead of the draft) than 2019. In 2017, the Jets and Browns (and I’m sure others) decided to punt on the QB because 2017 was a weak class, while 2018 was headlined by blue chips in Darnold and Rosen. There were a handful of guys debated as the top QB’s in 2017, all with different strengths/weaknesses/risks/levels of upside etc but none that checked all the boxes. It’s quite plausible that there’s a future star QB in the class, it’s just about finding and developing that guy. Time will tell
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
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No comparison at all. Burrow is a very good quarterback who lead his team to a National Championship and now lead Cincinnati to the AFC championship. Pickett is a a good college quarterback with small hands who had a good season.
like him more than most here, but he's a mid to late 20s guy for me, and he'll be long gone by then. Concerned about his small hands. NFL defenders will be swatting at the ball, which is slightly bigger than the one in college. I agree with the Derek Carr comparison. I'd prefer to punt the QB decision until 2023.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking.
yeah that's like selecting the best of the ugly girls to go to the prom.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
since it seems we're comparing pickett/burrow here are the gamelogs
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
People thought Mahomes was a system QB (TTech), which he probably was. Talent wise, there were no questions about him...he threw for 800 yards in a game in college.
I will say this...he benefited greatly being drafted by Andy Reid and sitting for a year.
Higher upside and can be used in special packages before he is ready to start. Pickett's team also played a really weak schedule this year, elevating his stats.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
So you're using the Chiefs as an example of a team that built the OL before they acquired a QB? Damn, does Mahomes know he's about to be replaced?
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
I don't think it's just pure luck as to whether a QB will pan out.
He needs to have the physical skills - sometimes this takes some projection on the part of your scouting department. He needs to have the mental acuity - this is where pre-draft meetings and reference checks with former teammates and coaches are essential. He needs to have that desire to keep improving - this is a bit of a wildcard because even the busts should be saying the right things in the pre-draft process and showing improvement through college. Either way, this is one element that I'll grant you has a bit of luck attached to it.
And then the kid needs to fit your scheme, receive excellent coaching early in his career, learn to adjust to the league when the league adjusts to him.
That's an area where the Giants and DJ have both been lacking, IMO.
appreciate the post and your opinion, but you and all of us have no idea if Kenny Pickett will be great, decent, or suck.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's his opinion. You just referenced it. Should every poster mark every opinion with a "this is just an opinion" notation? If so, you should go first, because you do it as much as anyone.
To me what makes it so hard is how they operate once the ball is snapped, can they work in chaos? Those that can have a shot at thriving. Players like Davis Webb as an easy example have all the tools, work hard, but when the ball is snapped, his execution can't operate like Burrow. Its why I'm hoping for Bryce Young, he can execute in the mess.
This isn't about comparing Burrow to Pickett from a talent standpoint. It's about comparing their sudden success in their final college season.
a lot of players have sudden success in their senior years and go on to be nothing. you can literally find 5-10 draftable QBs every year who fit that exact description. davis webb is a good example above of a comparison that will hold up exponentially better than burrow to pickett.
burrow is an outlier unfit for that type of weak comparison because nobody else has had a senior year success like him, and he had a lot of unique circumstances that make it likely he would have broken out earlier had he chosen a different school initially.
do you not see that there's a difference between breaking out in year #2 vs. year #5?
or the difference between perhaps the best QB season in CFB history vs. a common solid year?
RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
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In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Montana
They were overlooked
Well said
Quote:
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
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In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
I think you could go back to threads in 2019 and see the exact same rationalization for Daniel Jones.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
In comment 15568991 Producer said:
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
I assume you're going to say you weren't comparing the players, but rather "their routes", which were just as different as the players.
Pickett was 3 star recruit who made 50+ CFB starts playing mostly mediocre football until the extra year he only got because of covid, then won a mediocre (at best) conference. Credit to him, he has some tools and there's a chance something clicked and he's a late bloomer (I actually like Pickett, as I said he's just not on the same planet of prospect as Burrow).
Burrow was a 5 star recruit stuck behind a first round pick so he transferred into the powerhouse conference and in his 2nd season led his team to a historical national championship.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's rare that I agree with Ryan, so someone should check the temperature in Hell, but +1
Pickett isn’t a #1 overall in the draft type player. That being said, you take him between 7-20 and he ends up being really good, it doesn’t really matter.
NYG trades #7, #67 (1755 draft points) and a future 3rd or 4th rounder to Philly for #16 and #19 (1875 draft points)
Then NYG has #5, #16 and #19 and can take a risk on a QB
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
also Pickett compounded this concern by skipping the bowl game against MSU. they were no powerhouse but that would have been the highest quality opponent he played all year.
his ascent this year reminds me of Zach Wilson last year (who the jury is obviously very much out on).
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
My trade idea only works if Philly really, really likes a player and wants to trade up into the top 10 to get that player. But it's a thought. I'd also consider trading the Bears pick to say, the Jets and get another 1st rounder in 2023
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Pickett played the trash ACC defenses this year. I sure hope he looked good.
1. No front office is going to give up on a high first round quarterback after an up and down rookie year. Cincinnati would have taken Fields or Mac Jones with that line of thinking...and then done what with Burrow? You need to see the year 1 to year 2 progression at the earliest to make that call.
2. Blowing high first round picks is a double whammy of getting a lousy player and the opportunity cost of missing out on what should be a sure high end starter. Who wants Daniel Jones followed by Herbert when you could have Josh Allen, Hockenson, Bush, Oliver, etc. followed by Herbert?
The real sin is a front office that can't tell the difference between Daniel Jones and a prospect worthy of #6 overall.
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That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Let me first say that I’m not personally a fan of Pickett. However, this discussion reminds me more of 2017 (ahead of the draft) than 2019. In 2017, the Jets and Browns (and I’m sure others) decided to punt on the QB because 2017 was a weak class, while 2018 was headlined by blue chips in Darnold and Rosen. There were a handful of guys debated as the top QB’s in 2017, all with different strengths/weaknesses/risks/levels of upside etc but none that checked all the boxes. It’s quite plausible that there’s a future star QB in the class, it’s just about finding and developing that guy. Time will tell
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He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
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No comparison at all. Burrow is a very good quarterback who lead his team to a National Championship and now lead Cincinnati to the AFC championship. Pickett is a a good college quarterback with small hands who had a good season.
yeah that's like selecting the best of the ugly girls to go to the prom.
"A viable option"... lol awesome
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
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Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
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yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
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Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
one of these is on another planet from the other.
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
Yes. And?
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In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
People thought Mahomes was a system QB (TTech), which he probably was. Talent wise, there were no questions about him...he threw for 800 yards in a game in college.
I will say this...he benefited greatly being drafted by Andy Reid and sitting for a year.
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In comment 15569133 Go Terps said:
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It doesn't work that way.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
So you're using the Chiefs as an example of a team that built the OL before they acquired a QB? Damn, does Mahomes know he's about to be replaced?
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
I don't think it's just pure luck as to whether a QB will pan out.
He needs to have the physical skills - sometimes this takes some projection on the part of your scouting department. He needs to have the mental acuity - this is where pre-draft meetings and reference checks with former teammates and coaches are essential. He needs to have that desire to keep improving - this is a bit of a wildcard because even the busts should be saying the right things in the pre-draft process and showing improvement through college. Either way, this is one element that I'll grant you has a bit of luck attached to it.
And then the kid needs to fit your scheme, receive excellent coaching early in his career, learn to adjust to the league when the league adjusts to him.
That's an area where the Giants and DJ have both been lacking, IMO.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's his opinion. You just referenced it. Should every poster mark every opinion with a "this is just an opinion" notation? If so, you should go first, because you do it as much as anyone.
To me what makes it so hard is how they operate once the ball is snapped, can they work in chaos? Those that can have a shot at thriving. Players like Davis Webb as an easy example have all the tools, work hard, but when the ball is snapped, his execution can't operate like Burrow. Its why I'm hoping for Bryce Young, he can execute in the mess.
a lot of players have sudden success in their senior years and go on to be nothing. you can literally find 5-10 draftable QBs every year who fit that exact description. davis webb is a good example above of a comparison that will hold up exponentially better than burrow to pickett.
burrow is an outlier unfit for that type of weak comparison because nobody else has had a senior year success like him, and he had a lot of unique circumstances that make it likely he would have broken out earlier had he chosen a different school initially.
do you not see that there's a difference between breaking out in year #2 vs. year #5?
or the difference between perhaps the best QB season in CFB history vs. a common solid year?
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LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
Also important to note how often BBI can't get players' names correct.