He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
Burrow also passed the eye test..you could see he just had “it” ..dont see that with pickett
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
Burrow also passed the eye test..you could see he just had “it” ..dont see that with pickett
If allowed to properly develop with the right OC, which will involve not making them play at all in 2022, I personally think Corral and Ridder have the best combination of upside and likelihood of at least being an improvement over Jones.
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
To be fair, Burrow was throwing to two of the NFL's best WR's. If Jefferson and Chase were on the same team now, they would be by far the best 1/2 WR tandem in the league. To be clear, I don't think Pickett is nearly as good a prospect as Burrow was but that was definitely a concern going into the 2020 draft.
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
But can Willis read defenses? It is true for many college QBs recently, but most of them are playing in a one read system or a half field system. With Willis too often it looks like he looks for his primary target. If he is not open, he takes off. I need to watch more games, but the scouting process has to dig deep on Willis, Corral and Pickett to uncover where they are in terms of the mental processing of the game.
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
I made a mistake earlier. Burrow graduated HS in spring of 2015 and did not become a starter at LSU until 2018 so that means from the end of 2014 season until start of 2018 college season he didn’t get any meaningful in game starter reps
RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Only Jefferson was a full time starter in 2018. The rest were backups behind Nick Brossette, Derrick Dillon, etc.
RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
JaMarcus Russell, Mitch Trubisky, etc. all popped big in their last year does that mean Pickett is them? Pickett had a substantial body of work as a starter before this year and he looked like Daniel Jones.
RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
JaMarcus Russell, Mitch Trubisky, etc. all popped big in their last year does that mean Pickett is them? Pickett had a substantial body of work as a starter before this year and he looked like Daniel Jones.
Carson Palmer popped his senior year, too. But, yes, Pickett could be like the players you mentioned.
But I don't think Russell and Trubisky had nearly the production that Pickett had in the final year.
The potential need for a QB should not force us to reach in the draft. Many have said this is not a bumper year for QBs. I am not wasting a high pick on a project plain and simple. There is not one guy in this draft that is a sure thing.
RE: RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
With all due respect, Jones's senior year isn't in the same stratosphere as Pickett's.
Jones came out after his third year as a starter, this was Pickett’s 4th year as a starter and 5th overall. Jones’s draft year actually was better slightly than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year.
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
Pickett had the presence of mind to fake a QB slide to get a defender to pull up and take himself out of the play. In the same situation Jones's instinct has been to lead with his head, expose his neck, or trip over a ghost.
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Just bc some observers say this is a bad overall year for QBs
2017 was considered a bad year for QBs, yet Watson and Mahomes came out that year.
Don't lean on hot takes, blanket statements and truisms to run a football team.
Do careful individual analysis of the players and then decide.
Pickett made one of the best football plays, pro or college, this season with his fake slide. That took a lot of moxie, football smarts and athletic ability. He should be considered, at the least. Corral and Willis should also be in the mix.
Pickett had the presence of mind to fake a QB slide to get a defender to pull up and take himself out of the play. In the same situation Jones's instinct has been to lead with his head, expose his neck, or trip over a ghost.
They're not similar players.
They aren't similar, but by same mistake we're talking about overdrafting a QB who isn't worthy of being a top 10 pick simply because the QB class sucks and you need a QB.
The ACC was absolute dog shit this year, too.
The Giants almost certainly are going to be one of the worst teams in the league next year. They cant add anyone via free agency. They're going to be terrible and have a good shot at Young or Stroud.
Build up the offensive line so when they do get a QB the QB actually has a chance to succeed and isnt running for his life.
To Burrows QB abilities with respect to arm strength, accuracy, footwork , release and passing progression?
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
Pickett had the presence of mind to fake a QB slide to get a defender to pull up and take himself out of the play. In the same situation Jones's instinct has been to lead with his head, expose his neck, or trip over a ghost.
They're not similar players.
Yeah, one cheats and the other actually tried to make a first down and got hurt. I wouldn't brag on the cheater. IMV, that is a unsportsmanlike penalty and should have been called.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
Pickett had the presence of mind to fake a QB slide to get a defender to pull up and take himself out of the play. In the same situation Jones's instinct has been to lead with his head, expose his neck, or trip over a ghost.
They're not similar players.
Yeah, one cheats and the other actually tried to make a first down and got hurt. I wouldn't brag on the cheater. IMV, that is a unsportsmanlike penalty and should have been called.
What your view is is irrelevant, because at the time it wasn't against the rules. That's a smart, instinctive play.
Pickett they will be in the same position they are now with Jones 3 years from now.
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
Pickett they will be in the same position they are now with Jones 3 years from now.
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
I agree. I just don’t see it with Pickett. I see slightly above average arm strength, nothing like Burrow’s. I see an NFL backup.
RE: RE: RE: Building up the OL first isn't a thing
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
I don’t buy the “wait until next year”, we have no idea what will happen in the next year. I remember everyone wanting to wait for Tua because he was the next great prospect. There were posters wanting to wait for Jake Fromm.
QB is just as much a need as OL. Everything is a need on this team. I don’t understand why picking a QB makes everyone say “forced” but not OL. If a QB meets the value when NYG is picking, I would have no issues with them going QB.
Also, look at the Colts. A team that has built up the OL first, and now they are still chasing a QB. They look to have lost the Wentz trade pretty badly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Building up the OL first isn't a thing
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
In comment 15569198 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
In comment 15569060 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
In comment 15569049 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
Jones came out after his Junior year which was his best statistically. Pickett is a redshirt Senior who has started for 4 years and been in games for 5. Jones’s draft year was better than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
I’m basing it on skill set. Pickett doesn’t have the elite arm strength to stretch the field… I may be wrong but I doubt it. Although Jones has a strong arm and it’s statistically pretty accurate when he does throw deep it’s not an elite arm. Scrambling ability to me is about the same… both guys can hurt you with their legs but they are not going to run up and down the field like some other guys. Again I may be wrong but the eye test says Jones to me.
RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
Mahomes was sacked on a higher percentage of his dropbacks this year than last year and the difference in pressure across the entire season was a whopping .1%. In the Super Bowl, they were down most of their starting offensive line and were starting Mike Remmers at LT against one of the best fronts in football. Using that to say that they were much better this year is just not accurate.
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
My snide comments were directed at Mook, not you.
I get your position. I've stated that in the past when we have gone down this path. Frankly, I don't know where I would draft Pickett. I don't think top ten, but I think somewhere in the top 25. But there is more intel that needs to be gathered, especially with the hand size and watching him throw against his peers and his pro day.
RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Oh you were talking about Anderson the Alabama pass rusher. Yes, that is going to be the scenario for two teams at the top of next year's draft - take the QBs or take Anderson. QB is the most important position and both Stroud and Young will put up ridiculous numbers and most likely be in the playoff
Anderson is another reason to do whatever it takes to get another 2023 1st rounder
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Couldn't agree more, although I would add coaching/scheme as an important variable in development. With the exception of Burrow and arguably Stafford, not one of the NFL's elite QB's were can't miss, undisputed picks pre-draft.
To Burrows QB abilities with respect to arm strength, accuracy, footwork , release and passing progression?
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
Not at all.
I am saying the argument that goes, he was unimpressive for 3 years and great for one therefore he can't be trusted is a bad argument because the same exact thing was said about Burrow and he turned out fine.
You want to say he doesn't have this skill or that skill, we can discuss that argument, but the other one is plain bunk.
is "convince yourself" that some other QB is our next franchise QB simply because of the extreme desire to replace DJ. Otherwise, you are really no better than Gettleman who also tried to convince himself that DJ was the guy. Reaching for reasons to believe... Cutcliffe, connnection to Eli via that coach, same demeanor as Eli. Everything except things that are plainly obvious when watching film.
If you have to justify a QB selection by making comparisons to Jones, then you don't know WTF you are doing.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
pointing to Pickett's supporting cast is a bit of an odd move when he was throwing to the biletnikoff winner.
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Have a feeling Schoen won’t like Corral. Not big enough and fairly slight of frame.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
Here’s a scenario I’d like. Take best available player at 5. Likely Stingley or Hamilton in that spot if they are available. Trade 7 to move back 10 spots or so if there’s a deal out there. Then seriously consider Pickett if available and you’ve got a ton more draft capital left in 2022 draft to figure out OL and even more picks in 2023.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Overlooked is when a QB becomes a legit top guy and
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
of going ONE season without a franchise caliber quarterback or potential future franchise quarterback and the Giants panic picked Daniel Jones, a guy who had no right going #6 overall.
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
I assume you're going to say you weren't comparing the players, but rather "their routes", which were just as different as the players.
Pickett was 3 star recruit who made 50+ CFB starts playing mostly mediocre football until the extra year he only got because of covid, then won a mediocre (at best) conference. Credit to him, he has some tools and there's a chance something clicked and he's a late bloomer (I actually like Pickett, as I said he's just not on the same planet of prospect as Burrow).
Burrow was a 5 star recruit stuck behind a first round pick so he transferred into the powerhouse conference and in his 2nd season led his team to a historical national championship.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
and take Pickett, cool. If we take Pickett at 7, cool. Trust the new GM knows what he’s doing. If we pass on the QBs, it means Schoen and everyone else came to the consensus they they want to just make sure they get some awesome players before making a true decision on QB.
Pickett isn’t a #1 overall in the draft type player. That being said, you take him between 7-20 and he ends up being really good, it doesn’t really matter.
I'd feel a little more comfortable with taking a flyer on the QBs
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
i have a hard time thinking he's worth that kind of grade though because he simply wasn't tested much. the acc was trash. miami and fsu were terrible. clemson had their worst year in a decade. louisville and VT were bad. imagine the odds betting preseason on a Pitt vs. Wake ACCCG?
also Pickett compounded this concern by skipping the bowl game against MSU. they were no powerhouse but that would have been the highest quality opponent he played all year.
his ascent this year reminds me of Zach Wilson last year (who the jury is obviously very much out on).
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
My trade idea only works if Philly really, really likes a player and wants to trade up into the top 10 to get that player. But it's a thought. I'd also consider trading the Bears pick to say, the Jets and get another 1st rounder in 2023
Basically, I'm throwing another curveball into this conversation
I think we're having the wrong conversation. Instead of picking a QB in the top 10, trade the Bears pick for more picks and compile more draft capital to build the lines
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
1. No front office is going to give up on a high first round quarterback after an up and down rookie year. Cincinnati would have taken Fields or Mac Jones with that line of thinking...and then done what with Burrow? You need to see the year 1 to year 2 progression at the earliest to make that call.
2. Blowing high first round picks is a double whammy of getting a lousy player and the opportunity cost of missing out on what should be a sure high end starter. Who wants Daniel Jones followed by Herbert when you could have Josh Allen, Hockenson, Bush, Oliver, etc. followed by Herbert?
The real sin is a front office that can't tell the difference between Daniel Jones and a prospect worthy of #6 overall.
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Let me first say that I’m not personally a fan of Pickett. However, this discussion reminds me more of 2017 (ahead of the draft) than 2019. In 2017, the Jets and Browns (and I’m sure others) decided to punt on the QB because 2017 was a weak class, while 2018 was headlined by blue chips in Darnold and Rosen. There were a handful of guys debated as the top QB’s in 2017, all with different strengths/weaknesses/risks/levels of upside etc but none that checked all the boxes. It’s quite plausible that there’s a future star QB in the class, it’s just about finding and developing that guy. Time will tell
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
\
\
No comparison at all. Burrow is a very good quarterback who lead his team to a National Championship and now lead Cincinnati to the AFC championship. Pickett is a a good college quarterback with small hands who had a good season.
like him more than most here, but he's a mid to late 20s guy for me, and he'll be long gone by then. Concerned about his small hands. NFL defenders will be swatting at the ball, which is slightly bigger than the one in college. I agree with the Derek Carr comparison. I'd prefer to punt the QB decision until 2023.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking.
yeah that's like selecting the best of the ugly girls to go to the prom.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
since it seems we're comparing pickett/burrow here are the gamelogs
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
People thought Mahomes was a system QB (TTech), which he probably was. Talent wise, there were no questions about him...he threw for 800 yards in a game in college.
I will say this...he benefited greatly being drafted by Andy Reid and sitting for a year.
Higher upside and can be used in special packages before he is ready to start. Pickett's team also played a really weak schedule this year, elevating his stats.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
So you're using the Chiefs as an example of a team that built the OL before they acquired a QB? Damn, does Mahomes know he's about to be replaced?
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
I don't think it's just pure luck as to whether a QB will pan out.
He needs to have the physical skills - sometimes this takes some projection on the part of your scouting department. He needs to have the mental acuity - this is where pre-draft meetings and reference checks with former teammates and coaches are essential. He needs to have that desire to keep improving - this is a bit of a wildcard because even the busts should be saying the right things in the pre-draft process and showing improvement through college. Either way, this is one element that I'll grant you has a bit of luck attached to it.
And then the kid needs to fit your scheme, receive excellent coaching early in his career, learn to adjust to the league when the league adjusts to him.
That's an area where the Giants and DJ have both been lacking, IMO.
appreciate the post and your opinion, but you and all of us have no idea if Kenny Pickett will be great, decent, or suck.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's his opinion. You just referenced it. Should every poster mark every opinion with a "this is just an opinion" notation? If so, you should go first, because you do it as much as anyone.
To me what makes it so hard is how they operate once the ball is snapped, can they work in chaos? Those that can have a shot at thriving. Players like Davis Webb as an easy example have all the tools, work hard, but when the ball is snapped, his execution can't operate like Burrow. Its why I'm hoping for Bryce Young, he can execute in the mess.
This isn't about comparing Burrow to Pickett from a talent standpoint. It's about comparing their sudden success in their final college season.
a lot of players have sudden success in their senior years and go on to be nothing. you can literally find 5-10 draftable QBs every year who fit that exact description. davis webb is a good example above of a comparison that will hold up exponentially better than burrow to pickett.
burrow is an outlier unfit for that type of weak comparison because nobody else has had a senior year success like him, and he had a lot of unique circumstances that make it likely he would have broken out earlier had he chosen a different school initially.
do you not see that there's a difference between breaking out in year #2 vs. year #5?
or the difference between perhaps the best QB season in CFB history vs. a common solid year?
RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
Okay at a lot of things but not really great at anything in particular
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
Quote:
In comment 15568983 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
Burrow also passed the eye test..you could see he just had “it” ..dont see that with pickett
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
Quote:
In comment 15568991 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15568983 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Burrow’s season the year before his draft year was FAR better than anything Pickett had in his 4 years prior to this year and Burrow only got better in his draft year. Burrow also was a more highly rated recruit who was only doing mop up duty for two years at Ohio State. In other words, despite being a full time starter for the first time since 3 years prior he posted far better numbers than Pickett did in his 4th year as a full time college starter.
Burrow also passed the eye test..you could see he just had “it” ..dont see that with pickett
If allowed to properly develop with the right OC, which will involve not making them play at all in 2022, I personally think Corral and Ridder have the best combination of upside and likelihood of at least being an improvement over Jones.
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
To be fair, Burrow was throwing to two of the NFL's best WR's. If Jefferson and Chase were on the same team now, they would be by far the best 1/2 WR tandem in the league. To be clear, I don't think Pickett is nearly as good a prospect as Burrow was but that was definitely a concern going into the 2020 draft.
But can Willis read defenses? It is true for many college QBs recently, but most of them are playing in a one read system or a half field system. With Willis too often it looks like he looks for his primary target. If he is not open, he takes off. I need to watch more games, but the scouting process has to dig deep on Willis, Corral and Pickett to uncover where they are in terms of the mental processing of the game.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Quote:
In comment 15568983 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
Not really. Burrow only had one other season as a starter, while Pickett had 3 before this year, and in that one year, Burrow threw for more TD’s and fewer INT’s than Pickett had in any of his first 3 years starting.
It’s a legitimate concern, especially when you compare the level of comp each of them faced in their college careers.
I made a mistake earlier. Burrow graduated HS in spring of 2015 and did not become a starter at LSU until 2018 so that means from the end of 2014 season until start of 2018 college season he didn’t get any meaningful in game starter reps
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Only Jefferson was a full time starter in 2018. The rest were backups behind Nick Brossette, Derrick Dillon, etc.
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
JaMarcus Russell, Mitch Trubisky, etc. all popped big in their last year does that mean Pickett is them? Pickett had a substantial body of work as a starter before this year and he looked like Daniel Jones.
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
It’s not only on bbi anyways, a lot of draft analysts have been using that comp
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
JaMarcus Russell, Mitch Trubisky, etc. all popped big in their last year does that mean Pickett is them? Pickett had a substantial body of work as a starter before this year and he looked like Daniel Jones.
Carson Palmer popped his senior year, too. But, yes, Pickett could be like the players you mentioned.
But I don't think Russell and Trubisky had nearly the production that Pickett had in the final year.
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
With all due respect, Jones's senior year isn't in the same stratosphere as Pickett's.
Quote:
In comment 15569049 bw in dc said:
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
With all due respect, Jones's senior year isn't in the same stratosphere as Pickett's.
Jones came out after his third year as a starter, this was Pickett’s 4th year as a starter and 5th overall. Jones’s draft year actually was better slightly than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
Exactly
We had threads comparing Burrow to Daniel Jones for chrissakes... Of course Burrow vs Pickett threads will pop up.
Also, if I were going to start a thread I'd start by making sure I knew the guy's name.
They're not similar players.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
2017 was considered a bad year for QBs, yet Watson and Mahomes came out that year.
Don't lean on hot takes, blanket statements and truisms to run a football team.
Do careful individual analysis of the players and then decide.
Pickett made one of the best football plays, pro or college, this season with his fake slide. That took a lot of moxie, football smarts and athletic ability. He should be considered, at the least. Corral and Willis should also be in the mix.
They're not similar players.
They aren't similar, but by same mistake we're talking about overdrafting a QB who isn't worthy of being a top 10 pick simply because the QB class sucks and you need a QB.
The ACC was absolute dog shit this year, too.
The Giants almost certainly are going to be one of the worst teams in the league next year. They cant add anyone via free agency. They're going to be terrible and have a good shot at Young or Stroud.
Build up the offensive line so when they do get a QB the QB actually has a chance to succeed and isnt running for his life.
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
They're not similar players.
Yeah, one cheats and the other actually tried to make a first down and got hurt. I wouldn't brag on the cheater. IMV, that is a unsportsmanlike penalty and should have been called.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
Quote:
Pickett had the presence of mind to fake a QB slide to get a defender to pull up and take himself out of the play. In the same situation Jones's instinct has been to lead with his head, expose his neck, or trip over a ghost.
They're not similar players.
Yeah, one cheats and the other actually tried to make a first down and got hurt. I wouldn't brag on the cheater. IMV, that is a unsportsmanlike penalty and should have been called.
What your view is is irrelevant, because at the time it wasn't against the rules. That's a smart, instinctive play.
Jones is not a smart, instinctive player.
The highlights I've seen of him, he looks to have the size and arm and really can whip it from the pocket.
But the hands............
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
Quote:
It doesn't work that way.
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
Terps wants to take multiple QBs each year until he gets it right.......stop fighting him.
Quote:
It doesn't work that way.
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
What far better QB prospect specifically?
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
I agree. I just don’t see it with Pickett. I see slightly above average arm strength, nothing like Burrow’s. I see an NFL backup.
Quote:
In comment 15569133 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't work that way.
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
What far better QB prospect specifically?
Stroud and Bryce Young specifically. Both will be great NFL QB's imo.
I dont see it with Pickett at all.
Quote:
It doesn't work that way.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
If you don't like those two, I think McCall, Jurkovec, and Haener with one more year of experience are potentially better than any this year
Quote:
In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
QB is just as much a need as OL. Everything is a need on this team. I don’t understand why picking a QB makes everyone say “forced” but not OL. If a QB meets the value when NYG is picking, I would have no issues with them going QB.
Also, look at the Colts. A team that has built up the OL first, and now they are still chasing a QB. They look to have lost the Wentz trade pretty badly.
Quote:
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
Quote:
In comment 15569049 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
Jones came out after his Junior year which was his best statistically. Pickett is a redshirt Senior who has started for 4 years and been in games for 5. Jones’s draft year was better than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year
Quote:
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
I’m basing it on skill set. Pickett doesn’t have the elite arm strength to stretch the field… I may be wrong but I doubt it. Although Jones has a strong arm and it’s statistically pretty accurate when he does throw deep it’s not an elite arm. Scrambling ability to me is about the same… both guys can hurt you with their legs but they are not going to run up and down the field like some other guys. Again I may be wrong but the eye test says Jones to me.
Quote:
In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Quote:
In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Or Arizona with Murray vs. Nick Bosa
Quote:
In comment 15569180 Rory said:
Quote:
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
Mahomes was sacked on a higher percentage of his dropbacks this year than last year and the difference in pressure across the entire season was a whopping .1%. In the Super Bowl, they were down most of their starting offensive line and were starting Mike Remmers at LT against one of the best fronts in football. Using that to say that they were much better this year is just not accurate.
Quote:
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Quote:
In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Young and Stroud aren't in Burrow's class.
Quote:
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Quote:
In comment 15569209 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Young and Stroud aren't in Burrow's class.
Statistically both are better than Burrow was in the year prior to his draft year
just not at #5 or #7 though...
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
My snide comments were directed at Mook, not you.
I get your position. I've stated that in the past when we have gone down this path. Frankly, I don't know where I would draft Pickett. I don't think top ten, but I think somewhere in the top 25. But there is more intel that needs to be gathered, especially with the hand size and watching him throw against his peers and his pro day.
Quote:
In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Oh you were talking about Anderson the Alabama pass rusher. Yes, that is going to be the scenario for two teams at the top of next year's draft - take the QBs or take Anderson. QB is the most important position and both Stroud and Young will put up ridiculous numbers and most likely be in the playoff
Anderson is another reason to do whatever it takes to get another 2023 1st rounder
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Couldn't agree more, although I would add coaching/scheme as an important variable in development. With the exception of Burrow and arguably Stafford, not one of the NFL's elite QB's were can't miss, undisputed picks pre-draft.
On this day of days, during these, the most magical times of our lives, I have 2 words.....
PRAISE BE!
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
Not at all.
I am saying the argument that goes, he was unimpressive for 3 years and great for one therefore he can't be trusted is a bad argument because the same exact thing was said about Burrow and he turned out fine.
You want to say he doesn't have this skill or that skill, we can discuss that argument, but the other one is plain bunk.
If you have to justify a QB selection by making comparisons to Jones, then you don't know WTF you are doing.
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
Quote:
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
Quote:
In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
Quote:
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Montana
They were overlooked
Well said
Quote:
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
Quote:
In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
I think you could go back to threads in 2019 and see the exact same rationalization for Daniel Jones.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
In comment 15568991 Producer said:
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
I assume you're going to say you weren't comparing the players, but rather "their routes", which were just as different as the players.
Pickett was 3 star recruit who made 50+ CFB starts playing mostly mediocre football until the extra year he only got because of covid, then won a mediocre (at best) conference. Credit to him, he has some tools and there's a chance something clicked and he's a late bloomer (I actually like Pickett, as I said he's just not on the same planet of prospect as Burrow).
Burrow was a 5 star recruit stuck behind a first round pick so he transferred into the powerhouse conference and in his 2nd season led his team to a historical national championship.
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's rare that I agree with Ryan, so someone should check the temperature in Hell, but +1
Pickett isn’t a #1 overall in the draft type player. That being said, you take him between 7-20 and he ends up being really good, it doesn’t really matter.
NYG trades #7, #67 (1755 draft points) and a future 3rd or 4th rounder to Philly for #16 and #19 (1875 draft points)
Then NYG has #5, #16 and #19 and can take a risk on a QB
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
also Pickett compounded this concern by skipping the bowl game against MSU. they were no powerhouse but that would have been the highest quality opponent he played all year.
his ascent this year reminds me of Zach Wilson last year (who the jury is obviously very much out on).
Jones statistically is very average, i think with a better functioning offense you can win with him but not b/c of him. Like Jimmy G.
Just draft the best players and don’t force the QB pick. Jones staying another year (definitely with competition) is not the end of the world for me.
If you love a qb, take him. But none of these guys seem worthy of top 10 picks and as Line of Scrimmage has pointed out, we still consistently get beat up in the trenches. We will continue to lose if that doesn’t change.
Also agree with whomever posted Schoen will probably like Strong & Willis the best out of this class.
The Bills had a clear plan of development for Allen. If you really trust your developmental process the clear choice to me is Willis. His physical talent is insane, if it clicks for him he has top 5 upside. A lot needs to click though.
My trade idea only works if Philly really, really likes a player and wants to trade up into the top 10 to get that player. But it's a thought. I'd also consider trading the Bears pick to say, the Jets and get another 1st rounder in 2023
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Pickett played the trash ACC defenses this year. I sure hope he looked good.
1. No front office is going to give up on a high first round quarterback after an up and down rookie year. Cincinnati would have taken Fields or Mac Jones with that line of thinking...and then done what with Burrow? You need to see the year 1 to year 2 progression at the earliest to make that call.
2. Blowing high first round picks is a double whammy of getting a lousy player and the opportunity cost of missing out on what should be a sure high end starter. Who wants Daniel Jones followed by Herbert when you could have Josh Allen, Hockenson, Bush, Oliver, etc. followed by Herbert?
The real sin is a front office that can't tell the difference between Daniel Jones and a prospect worthy of #6 overall.
Quote:
That wasn't the sin - the sin was not recognizing they missed after 2019 and drafting Thomas over Herbert.
They don't have to take QB in round one this year. It's just that if they do, it's not a massive reach like Jones turned out to be.
I think taking one this year would be every bit the massive reach that Jones was. I have no interest in doing that again. And we would see a repeat of letting Herbert go elsewhere, if they draft Pickett or someone else and suck shit next year, they would let Young and Stroud go elsewhere because they wouldnt be willing to cut ties with Pickett that quickly.
I would be all for a QB with one of those picks if I thought one of them was a franchise QB. I'd be stunned if Pickett were.
Let me first say that I’m not personally a fan of Pickett. However, this discussion reminds me more of 2017 (ahead of the draft) than 2019. In 2017, the Jets and Browns (and I’m sure others) decided to punt on the QB because 2017 was a weak class, while 2018 was headlined by blue chips in Darnold and Rosen. There were a handful of guys debated as the top QB’s in 2017, all with different strengths/weaknesses/risks/levels of upside etc but none that checked all the boxes. It’s quite plausible that there’s a future star QB in the class, it’s just about finding and developing that guy. Time will tell
Quote:
He had 4 seasons as a starter where he posted Daniel Jones numbers and suddenly has big year and is talked about as QB1. I am worried it is just a matter of him being more experienced than his competitors who are first time starters dealing with Covid restrictions.
Kind of like Burrow's route to the NFL..
How's that working out?
\
\
No comparison at all. Burrow is a very good quarterback who lead his team to a National Championship and now lead Cincinnati to the AFC championship. Pickett is a a good college quarterback with small hands who had a good season.
yeah that's like selecting the best of the ugly girls to go to the prom.
"A viable option"... lol awesome
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
Quote:
yours wasn't the only comparison, here's the one that forgot to mention that Pickett was throwing to a likely future first round pick who also happened upon the biletnikoff.
In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
one of these is on another planet from the other.
Jordan Addison also popped in 2021 with Pickett, not 2020 (per the bold).
And let's not act like the overall talent at LSU hasn't always dwarfed anything Pitt typically has year to year.
LSU's competition was without question far superior to Pittsburgh's, no?
Yes. And?
Quote:
In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
People thought Mahomes was a system QB (TTech), which he probably was. Talent wise, there were no questions about him...he threw for 800 yards in a game in college.
I will say this...he benefited greatly being drafted by Andy Reid and sitting for a year.
Quote:
In comment 15569133 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It doesn't work that way.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
So you're using the Chiefs as an example of a team that built the OL before they acquired a QB? Damn, does Mahomes know he's about to be replaced?
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
I don't think it's just pure luck as to whether a QB will pan out.
He needs to have the physical skills - sometimes this takes some projection on the part of your scouting department. He needs to have the mental acuity - this is where pre-draft meetings and reference checks with former teammates and coaches are essential. He needs to have that desire to keep improving - this is a bit of a wildcard because even the busts should be saying the right things in the pre-draft process and showing improvement through college. Either way, this is one element that I'll grant you has a bit of luck attached to it.
And then the kid needs to fit your scheme, receive excellent coaching early in his career, learn to adjust to the league when the league adjusts to him.
That's an area where the Giants and DJ have both been lacking, IMO.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.
It's his opinion. You just referenced it. Should every poster mark every opinion with a "this is just an opinion" notation? If so, you should go first, because you do it as much as anyone.
To me what makes it so hard is how they operate once the ball is snapped, can they work in chaos? Those that can have a shot at thriving. Players like Davis Webb as an easy example have all the tools, work hard, but when the ball is snapped, his execution can't operate like Burrow. Its why I'm hoping for Bryce Young, he can execute in the mess.
a lot of players have sudden success in their senior years and go on to be nothing. you can literally find 5-10 draftable QBs every year who fit that exact description. davis webb is a good example above of a comparison that will hold up exponentially better than burrow to pickett.
burrow is an outlier unfit for that type of weak comparison because nobody else has had a senior year success like him, and he had a lot of unique circumstances that make it likely he would have broken out earlier had he chosen a different school initially.
do you not see that there's a difference between breaking out in year #2 vs. year #5?
or the difference between perhaps the best QB season in CFB history vs. a common solid year?
Quote:
LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
Also important to note how often BBI can't get players' names correct.