Pickett they will be in the same position they are now with Jones 3 years from now.
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
I agree. I just don’t see it with Pickett. I see slightly above average arm strength, nothing like Burrow’s. I see an NFL backup.
RE: RE: RE: Building up the OL first isn't a thing
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
I don’t buy the “wait until next year”, we have no idea what will happen in the next year. I remember everyone wanting to wait for Tua because he was the next great prospect. There were posters wanting to wait for Jake Fromm.
QB is just as much a need as OL. Everything is a need on this team. I don’t understand why picking a QB makes everyone say “forced” but not OL. If a QB meets the value when NYG is picking, I would have no issues with them going QB.
Also, look at the Colts. A team that has built up the OL first, and now they are still chasing a QB. They look to have lost the Wentz trade pretty badly.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Building up the OL first isn't a thing
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Only on BBI will Pickens be compared to Burrow
In comment 15569198 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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In comment 15569060 AdamBrag said:
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In comment 15569049 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
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LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
Jones came out after his Junior year which was his best statistically. Pickett is a redshirt Senior who has started for 4 years and been in games for 5. Jones’s draft year was better than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year
All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
I’m basing it on skill set. Pickett doesn’t have the elite arm strength to stretch the field… I may be wrong but I doubt it. Although Jones has a strong arm and it’s statistically pretty accurate when he does throw deep it’s not an elite arm. Scrambling ability to me is about the same… both guys can hurt you with their legs but they are not going to run up and down the field like some other guys. Again I may be wrong but the eye test says Jones to me.
RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
Mahomes was sacked on a higher percentage of his dropbacks this year than last year and the difference in pressure across the entire season was a whopping .1%. In the Super Bowl, they were down most of their starting offensive line and were starting Mike Remmers at LT against one of the best fronts in football. Using that to say that they were much better this year is just not accurate.
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Burrow and Pickett have similar paths...
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
My snide comments were directed at Mook, not you.
I get your position. I've stated that in the past when we have gone down this path. Frankly, I don't know where I would draft Pickett. I don't think top ten, but I think somewhere in the top 25. But there is more intel that needs to be gathered, especially with the hand size and watching him throw against his peers and his pro day.
RE: RE: RE: I don't agree on either Stroud or especially Young
Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Oh you were talking about Anderson the Alabama pass rusher. Yes, that is going to be the scenario for two teams at the top of next year's draft - take the QBs or take Anderson. QB is the most important position and both Stroud and Young will put up ridiculous numbers and most likely be in the playoff
Anderson is another reason to do whatever it takes to get another 2023 1st rounder
QBs, probably the hardest position in professional sports to evaluate. Everyone thought Darnold was the next great quarterback. He had “it.” Nope - turns out he didn’t. Some folks thought Josh Allen would never have success based on his wild arm and the school he went to. And he was fairly bad his rookie year.
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Couldn't agree more, although I would add coaching/scheme as an important variable in development. With the exception of Burrow and arguably Stafford, not one of the NFL's elite QB's were can't miss, undisputed picks pre-draft.
To Burrows QB abilities with respect to arm strength, accuracy, footwork , release and passing progression?
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
Not at all.
I am saying the argument that goes, he was unimpressive for 3 years and great for one therefore he can't be trusted is a bad argument because the same exact thing was said about Burrow and he turned out fine.
You want to say he doesn't have this skill or that skill, we can discuss that argument, but the other one is plain bunk.
is "convince yourself" that some other QB is our next franchise QB simply because of the extreme desire to replace DJ. Otherwise, you are really no better than Gettleman who also tried to convince himself that DJ was the guy. Reaching for reasons to believe... Cutcliffe, connnection to Eli via that coach, same demeanor as Eli. Everything except things that are plainly obvious when watching film.
If you have to justify a QB selection by making comparisons to Jones, then you don't know WTF you are doing.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
pointing to Pickett's supporting cast is a bit of an odd move when he was throwing to the biletnikoff winner.
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Have a feeling Schoen won’t like Corral. Not big enough and fairly slight of frame.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
Here’s a scenario I’d like. Take best available player at 5. Likely Stingley or Hamilton in that spot if they are available. Trade 7 to move back 10 spots or so if there’s a deal out there. Then seriously consider Pickett if available and you’ve got a ton more draft capital left in 2022 draft to figure out OL and even more picks in 2023.
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Overlooked is when a QB becomes a legit top guy and
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
of going ONE season without a franchise caliber quarterback or potential future franchise quarterback and the Giants panic picked Daniel Jones, a guy who had no right going #6 overall.
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
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It doesn't work that way.
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
What far better QB prospect specifically?
He was a starter for 4 years basically and it took him until this year to not suck.
Comparing him to Burrow and pointing to Burrow's pedestrian stats in 2018 is asinine. It was his first year starting. He didn't have any real experience before that season.
I'm not forcing a QB pick just to force one. I'd rather draft the strength of the 1st round guys and take offensive lineman. Then next year get a far better QB option.
Go ahead and force the Pickett pick and we'll be having the same discussions January of 2025
I agree. I just don’t see it with Pickett. I see slightly above average arm strength, nothing like Burrow’s. I see an NFL backup.
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In comment 15569133 Go Terps said:
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It doesn't work that way.
It absolutely can work that way. Why should the Giants force a QB pick this year unless they actually believe in that player?
I'd much rather use the first 2 picks on a line and then take a far better QB prospect next year.
What far better QB prospect specifically?
Stroud and Bryce Young specifically. Both will be great NFL QB's imo.
I dont see it with Pickett at all.
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It doesn't work that way.
Correct, there is no one right position order to build a franchise. You do it by selecting the best players available. You don’t do it by forcing a position by overdrafting a player you think you will want to replace next year if the next hot thing is available.
um wrong.
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
If you don't like those two, I think McCall, Jurkovec, and Haener with one more year of experience are potentially better than any this year
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In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
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LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
QB is just as much a need as OL. Everything is a need on this team. I don’t understand why picking a QB makes everyone say “forced” but not OL. If a QB meets the value when NYG is picking, I would have no issues with them going QB.
Also, look at the Colts. A team that has built up the OL first, and now they are still chasing a QB. They look to have lost the Wentz trade pretty badly.
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You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
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In comment 15569049 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15569042 ZogZerg said:
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LOL!
The comp is the trajectory and how they popped big in their last year.
The difference is Burrow didn't get a shot until his Junior year, looked good then and then looked amazing his senior year.
Pickett played for 3 years and didn't look good and then had a strong senior season.
Pickett's trajectory is much more similar to Daniel Jones then Joe Burrow.
Pickett's trajectory is nothing like Daniel Jones's. Jones was good as a Junior and pretty bad as a senior.
Jones came out after his Junior year which was his best statistically. Pickett is a redshirt Senior who has started for 4 years and been in games for 5. Jones’s draft year was better than any of Pickett’s years prior to this year
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All over again. Yes we can win with an above average QB that doesn’t do any one thing exceptionally well but has a combination of average to above average skill set. That’s who Pickett is for me. The arm is above average, the pocket awareness is above average, the scrambling ability is above average (fake slide was sickest play ever) but hes not going to cut on a dime LJ style. When comparing him to a guy like Malik Willis, Willis has the much higher ceiling. Willis has the most elite level traits in this class and it’s not even close.
Jones does not have an intermediate game…even in college. Pickett’s whole game is built on attacking the intermediate area so how are you making this comparison?
I’m basing it on skill set. Pickett doesn’t have the elite arm strength to stretch the field… I may be wrong but I doubt it. Although Jones has a strong arm and it’s statistically pretty accurate when he does throw deep it’s not an elite arm. Scrambling ability to me is about the same… both guys can hurt you with their legs but they are not going to run up and down the field like some other guys. Again I may be wrong but the eye test says Jones to me.
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In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
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In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
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In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Or Arizona with Murray vs. Nick Bosa
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In comment 15569180 Rory said:
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You see how much better KC is this year?, what changes did they make?
-Acquired Orlando Brown Jr. for LT
-Signed Joe Thuney from NE at G
-Drafted Creed Humphrey at C
-Signed Kyle Long from FA
-Elevated UDFA vet Andrew Wylie to RT.
on and they drafted Trey Smith in 2021 for depth.
The Chiefs were 14-2 last year.
Record doesnt show the details, I watched quite a few the games, Mahomes was pummeled all year and looked completely off in the playoffs and it showed end of the season in the Superbowl.
Mahomes was sacked on a higher percentage of his dropbacks this year than last year and the difference in pressure across the entire season was a whopping .1%. In the Super Bowl, they were down most of their starting offensive line and were starting Mike Remmers at LT against one of the best fronts in football. Using that to say that they were much better this year is just not accurate.
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What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
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In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
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In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Young and Stroud aren't in Burrow's class.
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In comment 15569040 bw in dc said:
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What gets lost in the sauce is the amount of talent Burrow played with at LSU the year before he popped big in 2019.
In 2018, Burrow had 16 TDs with an offense that had Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, Terrance Marshall and Edwards-Helaire. I'm sure most of the board recognizes those names. Yes?
So, shall we compare those players to the players Pickett had at his disposal in 2020?
Chase was a true freshman in 2018 who clearly was not ready for a big role yet. That also was Burrow's first season actually getting real playing time. Pickett has been starting for what feels like 5 years now.
Pickett couldn't wipe Burrow's ass
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
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In comment 15569209 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15569187 Snablats said:
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In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Cincy had that choice with Burrow vs. Chase Young
Young and Stroud aren't in Burrow's class.
Statistically both are better than Burrow was in the year prior to his draft year
just not at #5 or #7 though...
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Let me slow this down for you - I'm not saying Pickett is as good as Burrow. I'm saying Pickett shouldn't be dinged because he finally had a great year; and that's because that's exactly what happened to Burrow.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
Let me slow this down for you - nobody is dining Pickett for finally having a great year. I’m saying that we shouldn’t overdraft a guy who for three years was worse than Daniel Jones because Joe Burrow had a strong senior year even though he was not a full time starter until redshirt Junior year and had better numbers that year than Pickett had in 3+ years as a starter.
Why that is so difficult to grasp is bizarre.
My snide comments were directed at Mook, not you.
I get your position. I've stated that in the past when we have gone down this path. Frankly, I don't know where I would draft Pickett. I don't think top ten, but I think somewhere in the top 25. But there is more intel that needs to be gathered, especially with the hand size and watching him throw against his peers and his pro day.
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In comment 15569181 Go Terps said:
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Also, if we're sitting there with those two QBs and Will Anderson on the board - you can't take one of those QBs.
That's the flaw in "we'll get the QB next year".
Why cant you take one of those QBs?
Because taking them over Anderson would be insane.
Oh you were talking about Anderson the Alabama pass rusher. Yes, that is going to be the scenario for two teams at the top of next year's draft - take the QBs or take Anderson. QB is the most important position and both Stroud and Young will put up ridiculous numbers and most likely be in the playoff
Anderson is another reason to do whatever it takes to get another 2023 1st rounder
So - Pickett could end up being a great quarterback. It’s a combination of having a good feeling about a guy and then pure luck as to whether that guy has what it takes to actually want to be great. If Schoen takes Pickett, tough to argue with him and hope for the best. Nobody truly knows how these quarterbacks will pan out.
Couldn't agree more, although I would add coaching/scheme as an important variable in development. With the exception of Burrow and arguably Stafford, not one of the NFL's elite QB's were can't miss, undisputed picks pre-draft.
On this day of days, during these, the most magical times of our lives, I have 2 words.....
PRAISE BE!
If so I am somewhat surprised to say the least.
Not at all.
I am saying the argument that goes, he was unimpressive for 3 years and great for one therefore he can't be trusted is a bad argument because the same exact thing was said about Burrow and he turned out fine.
You want to say he doesn't have this skill or that skill, we can discuss that argument, but the other one is plain bunk.
If you have to justify a QB selection by making comparisons to Jones, then you don't know WTF you are doing.
also the comps to Burrow are insane - he put up record setting performances against UGA, OU, and Clemson to close out his college career. He threw for almost 1k yards in the 2 playoff games with 14 tds and 0 ints in 2 games. His team scored 63 against Oklahoma and 42 vs. Clemson. 37 vs. UGA and 46 vs. Bama in the regular season. He played 7 games against top 10 opponents and went 7-0 (4 against top 5 teams). A really good argument can be made that he had the greatest season in CFB history.
Pickett opted out of his team's bowl game, played 1 game against a ranked team (WF #16), and lost 2 games to unranked teams at home. he has some tools and deserves a look but he isn't on the same planet as burrow as a draft prospect.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
The only QBs I think Schoen considers in this draft are Willis and Carson Strong. Willis due to being an elite athlete, and Strong due to having the best arm of any of the QBs in the draft
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
I guarantee you there will be a QB that will turn out to be a much better pro than the lineman you want at #7.
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In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
And Mahomes and Watson were under-drafted because ninnies thought it was a poor QB class and they got overlooked.
Mahomes and Watson were drafted #10 and #12 in the first round in 2017. They weren't that overlooked. The Bears made the big mistake in that draft picking Trubisky above either of them
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
Brady
Russell Wilson
Joe Montana
They were overlooked
Well said
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and take the BPA. I'm very confident the BPA will not be a QB at either spot. If there were a QB available that I thought was a franchise QB, I'd absolutely take that player, but I don't see it at all with this class and have no interest in drafting one this year that isnt good enough and then passing over one next year that is worth it because we already have Pickett on the roster and want to give him a shot. It will be a repeat of Jones. Different players but neither one will be a top tier starting QB in the NFL.
Well said
I'd trade the Bears pick for two more first rounders if I were GM
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In comment 15569289 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't pick Pickett because he's better than Jones - there are many prospects in this draft better than Jones - I'd pick him because he's a viable option in this particular draft where the Giants are picking. I like Corral better, but Pickett (or Corral) make sense at either pick. Just look at mock drafts being published by draft experts - both guys commonly go top ten.
They are being overdrafted because they are QB’s not because they deserve to go that high. That is how they end up like Bortles, Jones, Jake Locker, etc. If we were picking in. 20-32 range I would look at Pickett or Corral, but not Top 7.
Do you think Bortles, Jones, and Locker would have been good players if they'd been picked 20-32? I don't. Either you can play or you can't.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
It is a huge leap when we are talking about losing out on a player who deserves to be picked at 7
If the high ceiling isn't there with Corral, Pickett, or Howell, we'll see if the Giants have truly turned the page on their reactionary, no plan, no vision past. A franchise with a plan can forgo a subpar position for a year and build out the rest of the team. It's not about waiting for the perfect prospect, it's about having an honest evaluation of what's available and not reaching out of fear.
If you're ok picking Pickett at 20, it's not a big leap to picking him at 7. Either you think he can play or you don't.
I think you could go back to threads in 2019 and see the exact same rationalization for Daniel Jones.
He could be great. To say with absolute certainty that he won’t be a top tier QB is somewhat baseless at this point.