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Playoff Overtime - Change the format?

EricJ : 1/24/2022 8:54 am
There is a lot of back and forth about how overtime should be handled. Scoring a TD is an automatic win but if you kick a FG, the other team gets a shot.

Arguments can be made to support whatever your position is on whether this is fair.

I would propose to handle overtime differently. Each overtime period would be set for a fixed amount of time. A shortened period (5 minutes or 7 minutes, etc). This way, you play it out like it is just an extension of the end of the 4th quarter.

In the regular season, if both teams are still tied at the end of the shortened period, then it ends in a tie. If it is playoffs, you play for an additional period.

It is just an idea... the current format just does not sit well with me.

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RE: Whatever it takes  
KDavies : 1/24/2022 9:21 am : link
In comment 15571306 Jalapeno said:
Quote:
to ensure both sides get to touch the ball at least once in OT.

Sudden death is fine but after each team gets possession.

That game was decided on a coin toss and that is just fucked up.


All it takes to ensure both sides get to touch the ball at least once in OT is playing defense. No sympathy if you can't hold a team to a FG with the game on the line
Leave OT alone  
FJ : 1/24/2022 9:24 am : link
Learn how to play defense
I like it as is  
Tuckrule : 1/24/2022 9:27 am : link
Play defense. If they don’t get six your offense gets a shot. Simple as that.
No overtime in regular season  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/24/2022 9:28 am : link
Games end in tie, full overtine quarter in playoffs with no timeouts. Regular rules apply.
RE: RE: Whatever it takes  
Jalapeno : 1/24/2022 9:29 am : link
In comment 15571387 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15571306 Jalapeno said:


Quote:


to ensure both sides get to touch the ball at least once in OT.

Sudden death is fine but after each team gets possession.

That game was decided on a coin toss and that is just fucked up.




All it takes to ensure both sides get to touch the ball at least once in OT is playing defense. No sympathy if you can't hold a team to a FG with the game on the line


Fair enough. I do have a lot of sympathy.

I still think both defenses should be on the field at least once before the deciding factor.
Leaving it is OK  
AnnapolisMike : 1/24/2022 9:30 am : link
Maybe a change is eliminating the coin flip. Let the home team decide if they want to receive or kick off first. Set's expectations and maybe the road team does a little more to avoid a coin flip.

In any case, the Bills let the Chiefs score a field goal in 13 seconds. I was rooting for the Bills and that was just devastating.
RE: No....  
Mad Mike : 1/24/2022 9:32 am : link
In comment 15571342 rnargi said:
Quote:
Rules are rules and they've worked for a very long time.

I assume then that you prefer going back to true sudden death, with even a field goal ending the game on the first possession? That was the rule for a much longer time than the current format. Or no overtime at all, since that was the original rule?

If one likes the current format, so be it. But it's silly to say we should keep a rule just... because. Improvements to the game should always be sought after, even if they change longstanding procedures.
I don't like college rules for the NFL.  
j_rud : 1/24/2022 9:35 am : link
I think it's a simple fix, just make sure both teams have a possession. Essentially getting the ball back with the lead ends the overtime.
RE: Whatever it takes  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15571306 Jalapeno said:
Quote:
to ensure both sides get to touch the ball at least once in OT.

Sudden death is fine but after each team gets possession.

That game was decided on a coin toss and that is just fucked up.

There is only one outcome where a team does not get the ball in OT: allowing a TD. Get a stop, force a turnover, hold your opponent to a FG - any of those result in you getting the ball back.

The #1 defense lost that game both at the end of regulation and again in OT, much more than the coin toss.
RE: I like it as is  
ajr2456 : 1/24/2022 9:42 am : link
In comment 15571412 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Play defense. If they don’t get six your offense gets a shot. Simple as that.


Both teams should have to make a stop to win though.
College OT  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 1/24/2022 9:44 am : link
I don't watch much college football, but their OT format is far, far superior to the NFL's. I would love if they made the move to that format.
RE: Leave as is  
riceneggs : 1/24/2022 9:46 am : link
In comment 15571309 The_Boss said:
Quote:
You need to keep them out of the endzone. It's that simple. Unfortunately, it was evident both D's were shot last night and it was pretty apparent the team that won the toss was going to go right down and win.


Even if the rule was different, the outcome would not have been.

Let's play it out (with both teams touching the ball)

Chiefs score. Do we think there defense is stopping the Bills from scoring? Probably not!

So now we're tied in OT with the Chiefs getting a 2nd possession.

Does anyone in here think that the Bills defense is stopping Mahommes from getting into fg range??

Game was not decided on a coin  
MotownGIANTS : 1/24/2022 9:46 am : link
flip! IT was deciced by the ST coach that did no have his team pooch kick and burn at least 4 secs ... It was lost by a DC and defense that played not to lose ...
They already changed the rules…  
Chris in Philly : 1/24/2022 9:46 am : link
The other team gets a chance if you hold them to a FG. So have your defense hood them to a FG.
RE: RE: No....  
AnnapolisMike : 1/24/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15571440 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15571342 rnargi said:


Quote:


Rules are rules and they've worked for a very long time.


I assume then that you prefer going back to true sudden death, with even a field goal ending the game on the first possession? That was the rule for a much longer time than the current format. Or no overtime at all, since that was the original rule?

If one likes the current format, so be it. But it's silly to say we should keep a rule just... because. Improvements to the game should always be sought after, even if they change longstanding procedures.


The rules have changed in a way which makes it more difficult for defenses. That said the current rule is not hateful. There is no reason to change unless you are giving both teams an equal number of possessions.
RE: Leave OT alone  
Capt. Don : 1/24/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15571399 FJ said:
Quote:
Learn how to play defense


Why should one team have to "learn to play defense" and not the other?
RE: Use the NHL model  
Scooter185 : 1/24/2022 9:49 am : link
In comment 15571364 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Play a 5 minute OT of 6 on 6, first score wins.

If nobody wins in the first 5 minutes, you have the kickers alternate 40 yard field goals. If both make them, you move back 5 yards and try again. You keep moving back until someone wins. If both miss on the same yardage attempt, each team picks a QC coach and they fight to the death at the 50 yard line.


Eh, in the NHL playoffs the OT rules are different than regular season. Full 5v5 and full periods until a goal is scored.

I definitely don't mind the NFL OT rules for the regular season, but agree that in the playoffs both teams should get a possession.
someone needs to lose  
UConn4523 : 1/24/2022 9:50 am : link
and they had 13 seconds to make 1 stop on 2 plays and not let up 40+ yards.

I'd be mad if it was the Giants but there's nothing wrong with the rule.
RE: They already changed the rules…  
UConn4523 : 1/24/2022 9:51 am : link
In comment 15571486 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
The other team gets a chance if you hold them to a FG. So have your defense hood them to a FG.


Agreed. Can't just keep changing things to favor the QB's even more. When does it end?
RE: Game was not decided on a coin  
Section331 : 1/24/2022 9:52 am : link
In comment 15571484 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
flip! IT was deciced by the ST coach that did no have his team pooch kick and burn at least 4 secs ... It was lost by a DC and defense that played not to lose ...


You can fair catch a pooch kick and take no time off the clock.
I like the format  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/24/2022 9:54 am : link
They already changed it where a FG would not win the game which was a good move considering how good kickers are today.

It is the other teams job to keep them out of the endzone if they lose the toss.
A fixed-length extra period  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 9:54 am : link
especially if shortened from 15 minutes, is almost guaranteed to result in even more scenarios where one team never sees the ball.

A 5-minute drive for a FG is all it would take to make sure your opponent stays off the field. Using last night's game as an example, I'm pretty sure KC scored with 10:45 remaining, and the scoring play was 1st-and-goal from the 8 yard line.

If it was a 5 minute OT period, KC could have just gone into victory formation twice and kicked a FG with time expiring.

I don't hate the idea of ensuring that both teams get the ball once no matter what, but does anyone think the outcome would have been different? Let's say Buffalo does get the ball, and they do score a TD to tie the game back up. Is there much doubt that KC would have just marched down the field again?

And if you do change the rule to ensure both teams get a possession, what happens if the first team to get the ball throws a pick-6? Is the game then over? Shouldn't the opposing defense get a chance to match their opponent also?

Here's a link to some interesting OT stats (it's from 2020, but contains some good info).

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Game was not decided on a coin  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 9:56 am : link
In comment 15571501 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15571484 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


flip! IT was deciced by the ST coach that did no have his team pooch kick and burn at least 4 secs ... It was lost by a DC and defense that played not to lose ...



You can fair catch a pooch kick and take no time off the clock.

True, but if you kick it to, say, the 5 or even 10 yard line an the receiving team takes a fair catch to preserve the clock, you're gaining some yardage in the process vs. a touchback.

The only thing worse than a touchback in last night's scenario would have been kicking the ball out of bounds.
RE: RE: Game was not decided on a coin  
MotownGIANTS : 1/24/2022 9:56 am : link
In comment 15571501 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15571484 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


flip! IT was deciced by the ST coach that did no have his team pooch kick and burn at least 4 secs ... It was lost by a DC and defense that played not to lose ...



You can fair catch a pooch kick and take no time off the clock.


True that why the kick is HIGH and SHORT so eitrher start under the 25 or try and make a play ... so still to the kicking teams advantage ... now the team has a further distance to travel.
Josh Allen said  
Big Blue '56 : 1/24/2022 9:56 am : link
that OT rules don’t need to be changed. They had plenty of chances to win it..

Classy.
If you must change it  
prh : 1/24/2022 10:02 am : link
I'm leaning towards a fully timed OT period. Any other system is flawed and presents the same issues as the current OT rules.
If changed to a each team is allowed a possession. I'm sure the winner of the coin toss will defer. This allows an advantage to a team that knows what it has to accomplish. Allowing the use of all 4 downs, and whether it has to kick a FG or score a TD.
Knowing you have to play a full period in OT makes the game more like the end of regulation. Which we saw in yesterday's games is thrilling.
RE: RE: No....  
rnargi : 1/24/2022 10:03 am : link
In comment 15571362 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15571342 rnargi said:


Quote:


You want to win? Win. Like Stafford did. Rules are rules and they've worked for a very long time.



Rules are rules but your reference to Stafford is confusing.

What did he do yesterday? Do you mean win in regulation?


Yes, win in regulation. Buffalo took a chance on a coin flip and lost. Maybe they should have gone for two when they were up 2 with 13 seconds left.
RE: RE: RE: No....  
rnargi : 1/24/2022 10:05 am : link
In comment 15571487 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
In comment 15571440 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 15571342 rnargi said:


Quote:


Rules are rules and they've worked for a very long time.


I assume then that you prefer going back to true sudden death, with even a field goal ending the game on the first possession? That was the rule for a much longer time than the current format. Or no overtime at all, since that was the original rule?

If one likes the current format, so be it. But it's silly to say we should keep a rule just... because. Improvements to the game should always be sought after, even if they change longstanding procedures.



The rules have changed in a way which makes it more difficult for defenses. That said the current rule is not hateful. There is no reason to change unless you are giving both teams an equal number of possessions.


Yes,Mike, I preferred the original sudden death. Particularly when George Carlin compared it to baseball, lol!
If should simply be treated as a 5th quarter  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/24/2022 10:05 am : link
All regular rules apply. The game simply continues, no different than any other end of quarter. No sudden death, no quasi sudden death, no coin flip and no kickoff.
RE: Leave as is  
KeoweeFan : 1/24/2022 10:16 am : link
In comment 15571309 The_Boss said:
Quote:
You need to keep them out of the endzone. It's that simple. Unfortunately, it was evident both D's were shot last night and it was pretty apparent the team that won the toss was going to go right down and win.

If the game ended in a 10 - 10 tie I'd agree.
But modern playoff teams are more likely to engage in a shootout, and then the comment "decided by a flip of a coin" seems to apply. (KC couldn't stop Jones either.)
Leave it  
HomerJones45 : 1/24/2022 10:19 am : link
I detest college overtime. These are pros- stop the opponent or hold them to a FG.
I don't see it as the game being decided by the coin toss.  
an_idol_mind : 1/24/2022 10:21 am : link
The game was decided when Buffalo couldn't keep the Chiefs from going 40 yards in 13 seconds.
The college OT is stupid as hell  
lawguy9801 : 1/24/2022 10:22 am : link
but I have always thought each team should get at least one possession in OT, regardless of whether a TD is scored. Sudden death leaves too much to the coin-flip, especially in such a consequential game as yesterday.
Well  
jtfuoco : 1/24/2022 10:29 am : link
The beat option would be no sudden death just play one additional QTR and no extra points allowed teams must go for 2. That way both teams get a chance maybe more.
Just let the other team get a chance  
Dave in PA : 1/24/2022 10:31 am : link
If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…
Changing the rules for outlier situations  
adamg : 1/24/2022 10:33 am : link
is a bad strategy for a sport league
RE: Use the NHL model  
KeoweeFan : 1/24/2022 10:36 am : link
In comment 15571364 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Play a 5 minute OT of 6 on 6, first score wins.

If nobody wins in the first 5 minutes, you have the kickers alternate 40 yard field goals. If both make them, you move back 5 yards and try again. You keep moving back until someone wins. If both miss on the same yardage attempt, each team picks a QC coach and they fight to the death at the 50 yard line.

Big difference between NFL and NHL.
You want the better team to eventually win.
There are far fewer field players on a hockey team. The goalies defend against the teams on the field at the end.
In a FG shootout the result depends on one specialized player out of 22 starters (plus SS) on the team. Not nearly as representative.
RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
lawguy9801 : 1/24/2022 10:38 am : link
In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


+1
RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 10:48 am : link
In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…

To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.
RE: RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
GNewGiants : 1/24/2022 10:50 am : link
In comment 15571645 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.


KC would never get the ball back. Buffalo would have gone for 2. Anyone with semblance of a brain knew Buffalo was done defensively. if Buffalo scores, their best shot to win was getting 2 yards with Josh Allen.
KC averaged the most points per drive this year at 2.71  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/24/2022 10:51 am : link
168 Drives -- 53 Offensive Touchdowns -- 31.5% TD Rate

I know yesterday was unfortunate because the Bills didn't get the ball in what was an all-time great shootout. I know that the NFL is more offensive oriented than ever.

But on average, it is still heavily in the defenses favor that they'll atleast stop the offense from scoring a TD. That 32% number above is also taking into account all drives. The number for drives started after a kickoff is even less than that number.

I would still heavily consider a scenario where both teams get the ball regardless of the situation. I'd vote "YES" on that. But I also don't think the OT rules are totally flawed, the defense still needs to step up. But obviously in games like last night, that is unlikely to happen.
There's no need for a change  
Go Terps : 1/24/2022 10:51 am : link
If anything, overtime should be eliminated in the regular season.
RE: RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
Dave in PA : 1/24/2022 10:55 am : link
In comment 15571645 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.
that scenario is fine by me. If your defense can’t make any plays then you lose.
RE: No....  
Rjanyg : 1/24/2022 11:12 am : link
In comment 15571342 rnargi said:
Quote:
You want to win? Win. Like Stafford did. Rules are rules and they've worked for a very long time.


Last I checked the defense has a say in the outcome. Stop the other teams offense or cause a turnover.

People need to realize this is a team game. The defense is critical to winning. The rules are fine. They made it so the team with first possession has to score a TD or the other team gets possession.
RE: RE: RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 11:14 am : link
In comment 15571647 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15571645 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.



KC would never get the ball back. Buffalo would have gone for 2. Anyone with semblance of a brain knew Buffalo was done defensively. if Buffalo scores, their best shot to win was getting 2 yards with Josh Allen.

That's very possible. I've thought about that, too. But Buffalo wasn't exactly gaining an edge with ST strategy last night (like the kickoff at the end of regulation), so we can't necessarily assume they'd have made the right choice there, although I do agree with you that going for two would be the call.

But the flip side is that if the rule was different, and both teams are guaranteed a possession, would KC defer and then they'd be the ones going for 2 to win? And in that case, isn't the coin toss still deciding the game?
RE: I like it as is  
Man In The Box : 1/24/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15571412 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Play defense. If they don’t get six your offense gets a shot. Simple as that.


This

The defense yesterday was abysmal
RE: RE: RE: RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
GNewGiants : 1/24/2022 11:27 am : link
In comment 15571706 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15571647 GNewGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 15571645 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.



KC would never get the ball back. Buffalo would have gone for 2. Anyone with semblance of a brain knew Buffalo was done defensively. if Buffalo scores, their best shot to win was getting 2 yards with Josh Allen.


That's very possible. I've thought about that, too. But Buffalo wasn't exactly gaining an edge with ST strategy last night (like the kickoff at the end of regulation), so we can't necessarily assume they'd have made the right choice there, although I do agree with you that going for two would be the call.

But the flip side is that if the rule was different, and both teams are guaranteed a possession, would KC defer and then they'd be the ones going for 2 to win? And in that case, isn't the coin toss still deciding the game?


Maybe. I dont think there is an easy answer to any of it. I think it was just a situation where pretty much th ecoin flip winner decided the outcome.

Ive toyed with the idea of playing a 5th quarter, but I am not sure the answer is there either.

The thing that sucked last night is OT was about a anti-climatic as possible. Which kind of ruined what was a great game. I hate the college version as well.

OT just seems to be whatever you decide, it causes problems.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Just let the other team get a chance  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/24/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15571734 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15571706 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15571647 GNewGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 15571645 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15571601 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


If the first drive results in a TD. it’s not that hard…


To the extent that you're solving a problem with this, do you really think the outcome of the game last night would have been any different?

Buffalo probably does go right down the field and scores the game, and then KC probably answers right back again.

And we'd have people complaining that KC got the ball twice but Buffalo only got it once.



KC would never get the ball back. Buffalo would have gone for 2. Anyone with semblance of a brain knew Buffalo was done defensively. if Buffalo scores, their best shot to win was getting 2 yards with Josh Allen.


That's very possible. I've thought about that, too. But Buffalo wasn't exactly gaining an edge with ST strategy last night (like the kickoff at the end of regulation), so we can't necessarily assume they'd have made the right choice there, although I do agree with you that going for two would be the call.

But the flip side is that if the rule was different, and both teams are guaranteed a possession, would KC defer and then they'd be the ones going for 2 to win? And in that case, isn't the coin toss still deciding the game?



Maybe. I dont think there is an easy answer to any of it. I think it was just a situation where pretty much th ecoin flip winner decided the outcome.

Ive toyed with the idea of playing a 5th quarter, but I am not sure the answer is there either.

The thing that sucked last night is OT was about a anti-climatic as possible. Which kind of ruined what was a great game. I hate the college version as well.

OT just seems to be whatever you decide, it causes problems.

Last night was such a perfect storm, and had such a wild few minutes in regulation, that OT was bound to be somewhat anticlimactic, most likely.

But I'm not going to shed any tears for the losing team that could have executed better on specials and defense at the end of regulation to prevent the situation where their offense didn't get one last chance to bail them out again.
Yeah  
GNewGiants : 1/24/2022 11:57 am : link
there's no doubt Buffalo screwed the pooch with the end of the game. They could have won it twice if they simply guarded the 2 best players at their position.
RE: Use the NHL model  
Festina Lente : 1/24/2022 9:17 pm : link
In comment 15571364 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Play a 5 minute OT of 6 on 6, first score wins.

If nobody wins in the first 5 minutes, you have the kickers alternate 40 yard field goals. If both make them, you move back 5 yards and try again. You keep moving back until someone wins. If both miss on the same yardage attempt, each team picks a QC coach and they fight to the death at the 50 yard line.


Wtf... lol
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