Wonder if maybe he's not so interested in the job. My preference is Daboll anyways so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that Schefter and others said they requested permission from the Dolphins and haven't heard a peep since
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
They both coached in NE at the same time.
RE: Surprised there's been no announcement of a Flores interview scheduled
Wonder if maybe he's not so interested in the job. My preference is Daboll anyways so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that Schefter and others said they requested permission from the Dolphins and haven't heard a peep since
Strahan - I don't believe Flores requires permission because he was let go. I thought I read they may have talked to him (or at least reached out) before the Schoen hiring. I could be wrong so if anyone has more accurate information, they may be able to comment further.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
They overlapped for a few years on the Pats coaching staff so it's plausible that Daboll is the one who's interested in keeping Graham on as DC. Not to mention, Judge wanted to bring Daboll over as OC when he took the job and obviously handpicked Graham from their time in NE as well so it's not a big leap to guess that Daboll and Graham have a relationship
It seems odd to me that this guy was coaching in one of the craziest games of all time until 10:00 eastern time last night, and less than 24 hours later, he's interviewing for one of the most important roles in a billion dollar organization.
RE: RE: Surprised there's been no announcement of a Flores interview scheduled
Wonder if maybe he's not so interested in the job. My preference is Daboll anyways so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that Schefter and others said they requested permission from the Dolphins and haven't heard a peep since
Strahan - I don't believe Flores requires permission because he was let go. I thought I read they may have talked to him (or at least reached out) before the Schoen hiring. I could be wrong so if anyone has more accurate information, they may be able to comment further.
He does. I was surprised to learn that as well. See Schefter's tweet Link - ( New Window )
"Brian Daboll gets 2nd Giants interview in wake of his masterpiece. My sense entering Sunday was Schoen liked Flores but slightly preferred Daboll, while Mara liked Daboll but slightly preferred Flores. My columnist opinion aside, it's a 2-possession game now for Flo, Quinn & Co."
Interesting that Flores still requires permission from the Dolphins
And his penchant to cycle through offensive coaches. He was fired for a reason and that needs to be thuroughly looked through.
Agreed. This combined with the fact that he and Schoen have no pre-existing relationship makes Flores a pretty sizable risk for the organization as it stands today and I say that as someone who likes Flores and thinks he's going to have success at his next stop.
It seems odd to me that this guy was coaching in one of the craziest games of all time until 10:00 eastern time last night, and less than 24 hours later, he's interviewing for one of the most important roles in a billion dollar organization.
That’s got to be tough you know he’s got to be mentally and emotionally drained after last night
Colloquially we say a coach is fired, but for 99% of them the press release says "relieved of their duties"
Being fully guaranteed contracts, unless they are fired for a reason that allows the contract to be terminated, the coach will remain on the teams payroll until the contract expires. Thus, even though he was fired Flores is still employed by Miami and a request has to be made
I believe it's because they're still paying him his contract. If he gets another job, what they have to pay him is offset by his new contract.
Think of it more as he has been relieved of his duties. There is still a legally binding contract (which is why he is still getting paid) but he has just been told he is not needed to coach the team any longer.
I'm so impressed with Allen and his maturation and ability. Calm under pressure and if he got the ball again there is no doubt in my mind HE would have willed another td. But how much of it is Allen and how much is Daboll? A couple of calls bugged me but if he's the one who's smart enough to realize you put the ball in your best playmakers hands (meaning Allen on all those runs), then perhaps. And if he is the one primarily responsible for Allens development then another check in his box. But what can he do when he doesn't have Allen. Can he develop an OL as well? Can he get the most out of his lower round picks?? Thats a question for every coach we see, but I don't want to assume that the Bills Offensive success is primarily his doing.
Coordinators , and position coaches, may be more important than the HC at this point. Our most recent set were teachers, but apparently not very good ones.
"Brian Daboll gets 2nd Giants interview in wake of his masterpiece. My sense entering Sunday was Schoen liked Flores but slightly preferred Daboll, while Mara liked Daboll but slightly preferred Flores. My columnist opinion aside, it's a 2-possession game now for Flo, Quinn & Co."
This better not be "here we go again"...
Give the kid his pick and F off the decision tree Mara.
It seems odd to me that this guy was coaching in one of the craziest games of all time until 10:00 eastern time last night, and less than 24 hours later, he's interviewing for one of the most important roles in a billion dollar organization.
That’s got to be tough you know he’s got to be mentally and emotionally drained after last night
It is weird, but only other thing I can think of is maybe they didn't get as much time with Daboll and Frazier due to the prep and travel the Bill were undergoing.
I sure hope he can bring Ken Dorsey with him as OC
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
Hiring/Not Hiring a HC based on ONE game as a coordinator...
Is head coach it's his system, the offensive coordinator in this case is not that important, on the other hand the defensive coordinator is essential. With Judge he needed a very good offensive and defensive coordinator because he had no offensive or defensive system. With Flores the defensive coordinator is not that important, it will be his system, on the other hand his offensive coordinator will be very important. I don't understand how this is not clear to everyone on this website, if you follow the NFL you should understand this by now.
for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
RE: After watching a lot of that game I have to pause on Daboll.
Can he get the most out of his lower round picks?? Thats a question for every coach we see, but I don't want to assume that the Bills Offensive success is primarily his doing.
Gabirel Davis is a second year late 4th round pick. Last night he had 8 catches, 201 yards, and 4 touchdowns.
for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Right. Not sure how people can watch this weekends games and think the plan should be to do what we did a decade ago.
I sure hope he can bring Ken Dorsey with him as OC
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
As of May 2020 the coaching block rule has been removed. So Dorsey would be able to interview for the OC position
Before even interviewing other guys for the first time. I guess he’s the guy Schoen really wants.
It depends. Was the first interview with just Schoen, because they were both in Buffalo, or did others from the Giants org. participate? If not, this may be the first formal interview with the owners and GM.
was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
Sean McDermott is a defensive coach, it's his defensive system, which names Brian Daboll all the more attractive. It's his offensive system, and he created it with Allen as QB, he obviously adjusted his system to fit Allen, which us very impressive. The talk about the QB coach being more important is simply not true. Daboll would ve a good hire if he can secure a good or better yet, great defensive coordinator. That is why he breeds to be here to talk over those things. I could live with Graham, but would love an upgrade.
for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
I sure hope he can bring Ken Dorsey with him as OC
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
OC/QB Coach name to watch - Shea Tierny
He's followed Daboll from Alabama and Allen credits him a ton for their success.
Quote:
More recently, Allen expanded on that thought with this money quote on what Tierney means to the organization: “He’s the most underpaid person working for the Bills, I’ll tell you that. He does so much for this team and this offense.”
“He's been here since day one,” Allen continued. “He's basically Daboll’s right-hand man. He makes all the cut-ups. He makes all the install pages. He runs our scout defense. Just the energy and juice that he brings, too, he's just one of the guys and he loves football. That's what I love about him.
Why has it taken him 22 years to get a real head coaching shot?
feels like a long time
Sometimes guys are just a victim of circumstances. In his prior OC stops before Buffalo his QB's were Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Matt Cassel and Matt Moore. Hell, even Daniel Jones might be better than any of those guys. Before anyone gets all hot and bothered, that's an indictment on how bad those guys were, not an endorsement of Jones.
for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
A little Defense would have been helpful last night. Look at the 49ers, they play great D and good enough offense with a high flying offensive HC. D still wins championships. However, I'd still like Daboll over Flores...but Quinn over both.
night was they could not run between the tackles effectively. To beat Kansas City you need to win the play count imv.
I thought Reid had great respect for Allen and I noticed he tried to stay with the ground game and it worked well until the injuries hit the secondary. Then McDermott gifted him a second chance.
I hope he comes and brings Mitch Trubisky for some competition at QB. I am still a believer in DJ, but Mitch would be a big upgrade at #2 and he can help teach the offense.
I hope he comes and brings Mitch Trubisky for some competition at QB. I am still a believer in DJ, but Mitch would be a big upgrade at #2 and he can help teach the offense.
It's entirely plausible that Trubisky beats Jones out in a qb competition if that's the direction they go in.
Regardless of what Mara said, it was a package deal once they decided
was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
open. He’s got some nice concepts. Our offense won’t be an antiquated, bottom of the league offense. In fact, with the right personel, I think we can be at least a lot more competitive. Oline will be huge to our success and I am curious as to how that will be addressed this off-season.
was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
That team came together at the right time. The defense stepped up as did the OL. And Jacobs and Bradshaw were hurting most of the early season (IIRC) and finally got a bit healthy right before the playoff run.
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Brian Daboll's actual interview with the Giants will take place at the team facility on Tuesday. Sounds like he is coming downstate later today to be in place for the morning meeting, which created some timeline confusion. Just as Quinn was here yesterday for today's interview.
was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
That team came together at the right time. The defense stepped up as did the OL. And Jacobs and Bradshaw were hurting most of the early season (IIRC) and finally got a bit healthy right before the playoff run.
And obviously Eli just took it to a whole other level.
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Replying to @TomRock_Newsday
That said, I would not be shocked if there are dinner plans between some Giants decision-makers and Daboll for tonight.
1) Has the qualifications for a 1st time HC
2) Is a known quantity (as a person / coach) by the GM
3) Apparently has a good working relationship with the GM (personality, alignment of vision, etc.)
Nothing is guaranteed. Our team might suck. He might be a bad HC, whatever. But those 3 things are a good foundation.
Kim Jones
@KimJonesSports
Josh Allen: “I think teams would be foolish not to offer Brian Daboll a job.” Adds would love to have him back but seems to believe that is unlikely. #BUF #NYG
1) Has the qualifications for a 1st time HC
2) Is a known quantity (as a person / coach) by the GM
3) Apparently has a good working relationship with the GM (personality, alignment of vision, etc.)
Nothing is guaranteed. Our team might suck. He might be a bad HC, whatever. But those 3 things are a good foundation.
Good post. I'll add success in developing young QB and building a system to fit him.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Based on where they were selected, you could have a draft where Rodgers Mahomes Drew Brees Russell Wilson and Tom Brady all came out together and it would be labeled a weak draft class.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Based on where they were selected, you could have a draft where Rodgers Mahomes Drew Brees Russell Wilson and Tom Brady all came out together and it would be labeled a weak draft class.
We knew the Giants were interested in Schoen. However we heard that Peters was so impressive in both his interviews and it was getting close.
So you interview other potentials. You might get surprised. You might get some information you didn't have before. You get other views of your team and roster.
Im assuming they would ask questions like.. who do you see asn your OC..who do you see as your DC.. you might hear a name several times, so that would bear looking into.
One of the many reason you interview multiple clinets
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
Sean, that's exactly what I think they should be doing. That, and talking to Jim Harbaugh to see what it would take for him to leave Michigan.
I guess Daboll can work out here, but if you look across the league, it's a real long shot. There are a lot more Adam Gase situations than there are McVays. And regarding the latter and his coaching tree. Every single one of those guys has a big time QB now. Staley, Taylor, McVay himself to a slightly lesser extent.
The NFL is a QB driven league, not a "scientific offensive mind" league. It's the QBs that make the coordinators into head coaches, not the other way around.
Daboll will be walking in here a first time head coach going from Josh Allen to Daniel Jones at the QB position while an angry fanbase with pitchforks being sharpened awaits success. And it had better come quickly.
Is head coach it's his system, the offensive coordinator in this case is not that important, on the other hand the defensive coordinator is essential. With Judge he needed a very good offensive and defensive coordinator because he had no offensive or defensive system. With Flores the defensive coordinator is not that important, it will be his system, on the other hand his offensive coordinator will be very important. I don't understand how this is not clear to everyone on this website, if you follow the NFL you should understand this by now.
wait no totally disagree...
a head coach isnt going to spend his time implementing his offensive scheme with the offense. That is the OC's job to understand and implement.
The HC has a way bigger list of responsibility now and his job is essentially to manage his ast coaches and coordinators. Not run the offense.
You're dreaming if you think Daboll will survive more than 2 years if the winning doesn't start well within that timeframe.
The PLAN right now should be how do we bring instant credibility to this franchise to avoid that scenario. No offense, Daboll doesn't bring that.
Sean Payton would. Jim Harbaugh would.
disagree this year is a complete wash. Anyone with any expectations this year are crazy. Schoen is going to have to purge a lot of the roster just to be cap compliant. You just want to see some young players develop as we might have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL.
The following year there is likely to be a rookie QB in the fold. You can't expect much there so he will mostly be judged on the QB's rookie progression.
Year 3 is when he will fully get judged on W/L IMO...same was going to happen to judge until he started to self implode.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
Sean, that's exactly what I think they should be doing. That, and talking to Jim Harbaugh to see what it would take for him to leave Michigan.
I guess Daboll can work out here, but if you look across the league, it's a real long shot. There are a lot more Adam Gase situations than there are McVays. And regarding the latter and his coaching tree. Every single one of those guys has a big time QB now. Staley, Taylor, McVay himself to a slightly lesser extent.
The NFL is a QB driven league, not a "scientific offensive mind" league. It's the QBs that make the coordinators into head coaches, not the other way around.
Daboll will be walking in here a first time head coach going from Josh Allen to Daniel Jones at the QB position while an angry fanbase with pitchforks being sharpened awaits success. And it had better come quickly.
Daboll being a successful HC is not a given….in fact, at best it might be 50-50. He is not a proven HC….he may a proven OC, but you have to add, a proven OC with Josh Allen as your QB.
There is absolutely no way Daniel Jones can be a Josh Allen….no way. And I’ve asked this question many times with no answer I’ve seen….would we even be interested in Daboll if Daniel Jones was the starting qb in Buffalo?
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT…NO IN FACT I KNOW WE WOULDNT BE. Well guess what, for now, Daniel Jones would be his qb….what makes me think he could be successful as a HC or even an OC without Josh Allen?
Oh well….if Schoen wants his buddy from Buffalo to be our HC, it can’t be any worse than Judge, so let it play out.
Daboll is the leading candidate for every open HC job
and he will have his pick of where he wants to work next year. This is one of those times where the Giants brain trust should not over think it and pick the hottest girl at the dance.
this guy doesn't even look like he knows how to read
nope, 100% false. Judge tried to preach patience with teaching and his plan to rebuild everything and he was gone in 2 years. Now, obviously a lot of that had to do with Gettleman and Judge really regressing as a coach in year 2, but he was laughed out of the building.
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
we saw the same thing with Judge. Most everyone thought it was an inspiring out of the box choice and were willing to be patient.
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
nope, 100% false. Judge tried to preach patience with teaching and his plan to rebuild everything and he was gone in 2 years. Now, obviously a lot of that had to do with Gettleman and Judge really regressing as a coach in year 2, but he was laughed out of the building.
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
I agree on coaches. Don't agree on QB prospects from the sole perspective of there are none that were looked at as even top candidates period, let alone all-time QB prospects.
Daboll being a successful HC is not a given….in fact, at best it might be 50-50. He is not a proven HC….he may a proven OC, but you have to add, a proven OC with Josh Allen as your QB.
There is absolutely no way Daniel Jones can be a Josh Allen….no way. And I’ve asked this question many times with no answer I’ve seen….would we even be interested in Daboll if Daniel Jones was the starting qb in Buffalo?
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT…NO IN FACT I KNOW WE WOULDNT BE. Well guess what, for now, Daniel Jones would be his qb….what makes me think he could be successful as a HC or even an OC without Josh Allen?
Oh well….if Schoen wants his buddy from Buffalo to be our HC, it can’t be any worse than Judge, so let it play out.
This is such a ridiculous notion. It's like people don't know that last year was not Josh Allen's rookie year and the player he is today is who he's always been.
nope, 100% false. Judge tried to preach patience with teaching and his plan to rebuild everything and he was gone in 2 years. Now, obviously a lot of that had to do with Gettleman and Judge really regressing as a coach in year 2, but he was laughed out of the building.
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
Fans will tolerate losing if there's progress and hope on the horizon. The Giants haven't made any strides in a long time and there's nothing right now in the short term to be hopeful about aside from a regime change.
we saw the same thing with Judge. Most everyone thought it was an inspiring out of the box choice and were willing to be patient.
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
we saw the same thing with Judge. Most everyone thought it was an inspiring out of the box choice and were willing to be patient.
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
Not all. Some of us were really unhappy with the process/suddenness and as it came out later, Giants were inordinately sloppy with their evaluation. Judge was not qualified and it showed.
I think if the new coach comports himself at the end of year 2 the same way Judge did, he will indeed be fired.
But for 2022 anyway, the new coach and GM will get some rope considering that they're taking over maybe the worst roster in the NFL, with no cap space, and with no quarterback.
Schoen and Daboll (or whomever) would be better served to start with an expansion draft than they would with this current situation. It is that bad.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
I proposed this very idea yesterday on the Payton thread.
I would support this move in a heartbeat.
It's certainly worth calling Payton's agent to test the waters. Despite things I can't stand about him personally, he's a great HC, play-caller, strategist and developer of talent.
If we’re competitive and the team is showing progress. Daboll appears to have a good offensive mind and so I think we should see improvement from that side of the ball. Hopefully a bit more excitement and scoring. The offense was historically bad last year and it can’t get worse. That said, Daboll like any other coach will need the produce in order to cook. That’s where Schoen comes in. The Oline needs to be improved first and foremost and then we might actually see some improvement.
even when their teams don't win a ton of games. Look at the BBI reactions to the coach firings in Houston and Denver. People knew those coaches did a decent job with the rosters that they had. Same with Campbell in Detroit this year. Or in Miami. Rivera in Washinton is respected despite not winning.
Conversely, people recognize that McCarthy should be fired even though he won a lot of games.
Of course, you have to win at some point, but most people can see what's happening a judge a coach based on more factors than just the record.
I think if the new coach comports himself at the end of year 2 the same way Judge did, he will indeed be fired.
But for 2022 anyway, the new coach and GM will get some rope considering that they're taking over maybe the worst roster in the NFL, with no cap space, and with no quarterback.
Schoen and Daboll (or whomever) would be better served to start with an expansion draft than they would with this current situation. It is that bad.
Saying the roster is worse than an expansion team is ridiculous, even for you. The defense only needs a couple of players and the offense has skill players and needs a good OC and a rebuilt line, which is clearly going to happen
So defining what "an expansion team" is a bit of a futile exercise. We are probably worse than the Jags/Panthers and better than the Browns/Texans.
I think his point is that as an expansion team you have a clean cap sheet, not that the roster next season would be better than it will be if they were an expansion team.
It seems odd to me that this guy was coaching in one of the craziest games of all time until 10:00 eastern time last night, and less than 24 hours later, he's interviewing for one of the most important roles in a billion dollar organization.
If it were me, I would want ONE DAY to maybe get a little rest and prepare myself for the interview. The team charter probably landed early this morning in Buffalo
Patience has to be key but everyone is different in their reaction to it. We’ve been awful for 5 seasons in a row.
I was patient for 3-4 years with Gettleman until it was clear it was never going to improve. Hopefully it doesn’t take that long this time.
Actually patience isn't the key. Hiring competent professionals that have strong evaluation skills and think through how a roster should be built for long term success is the key.
Gettleman displayed none of that in year 1 and desperately tried to reverse course in year 2, and deserved no patience. It's okay, a lot of people missed it...
Actually patience isn't the key. Hiring competent professionals that have strong evaluation skills and think through how a roster should be built for long term success is the key.
Gettleman displayed none of that in year 1 and desperately tried to reverse course in year 2, and deserved no patience. It's okay, a lot of people missed it...
Whoever is hired as HC, he and the GM will have the same task: find and develop a franchise QB. And, hopefully, quickly. It's really that straightforward to me.
Unless you solve that problem, we really don't have the right team.
Every great coach was a coordinator or assistant at some point in his career. If the internet had existed in 1959-60 I'm sure some Packers and Cowboys fans would be screaming about "Why are we hiring this Lombardi/Landry guy when we can try to lure Paddy Driscoll away from the Bears?"
Of course, it doesn't meant that Daboll is going to work out and we really have no way of knowing that but good Lord, find better reasons to knock him other than "he's not a sure thing."
I don't want any fat head coaches. Pass on Daboll.
BBI sure is a treasure. Where else can you find a bunch of pathetic losers that couldn’t get laid in a brothel, yet are constantly ridiculing other peoples appearance?
I don't want any fat head coaches. Pass on Daboll.
BBI sure is a treasure. Where else can you find a bunch of pathetic losers that couldn’t get laid in a brothel, yet are constantly ridiculing other peoples appearance?
H'es no doubt the "hot candidate" after the way the Bills offense performed in the playoffs..nearly flawless.
But, the Bills have Josh Allen. His playmaking ability keeps drives alive. He can also make any throw which makes the offense that much harder to defend. Daniel Jones does not have that same ability.
Jones has similar size (not quite as big) and might even be a bit faster than Allen in a straight line. But, Allens movement skills and ability to buy time is 100x better. eJones is below average at evading pressure.
Allen can also throw very well on the run/off platform, something Jones is below average at. Something very subtle, but most of the great young QB's can throw on the run without slowing down (Allen, Mahomes, Herbert). Jones has to gear it down to about half speed and even then, he's not very accurate and can't get much behind it.
I'm not optimistic about Dabolls offense if Jones is the guy running it. Jones skillset is not even comparable. Josh Allen makes that Bills offense go (he is the 2021 MVP IMO). I do give Daboll credit for putting together a scheme that magnifies Allen's talents and allowed him to develop into a top 2 QB. I'm sure he can get more out of DJ, but the ceiling is MUCH lower.
for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
I think it is a different NFL from 2012. A strong defense is important and we will get to see what happens when LA or SF end up playing KC in the Super Bowl. FWIW, I see only a small chance the Bengals beat KC. But it will fun to see either NFC defense vs KC's offense.
RE: Call me football ignorant, call me superficial, but --
Before finishing the first round. I know the playoffs and competition for the coaching pool makes the process less than perfect, but this opens the door for hiring the last voice they hear.
Isn’t that how they found Judge? And maybe Shurmur?
right now since he’s getting the second interview, however they’re not over yet and we still might see another candidate get a second interview, as well.
My question about Daboll is not so much about his ability to improve the offense, but can he lead a team? How organized is he? Can he motivate players? Is he able to put together a solid staff? What style of leadership does he possess, Passive or boisterous ? There’s a lot of more intangibles that we need to know before we call him a decent candidate. Yea, I believe he can put together a decent offense, but is he Head Coach material?
RE: Call me football ignorant, call me superficial, but --
I sure hope he brings Mitch Trubiskey with him. I’d like to see he and DJ battle for the job. Also have no problem drafting another qb, maybe in round 2.
I sure hope he brings Mitch Trubiskey with him. I’d like to see he and DJ battle for the job. Also have no problem drafting another qb, maybe in round 2.
Yea, I think that would be a good idea, however I don’t see us drafting anQB in round 2 then. It’d be a wasted pick IMO. If neither QB works out next year, which is highly likely, then go QB in 2023.
I sure hope he brings Mitch Trubiskey with him. I’d like to see he and DJ battle for the job. Also have no problem drafting another qb, maybe in round 2.
Yea, I think that would be a good idea, however I don’t see us drafting anQB in round 2 then. It’d be a wasted pick IMO. If neither QB works out next year, which is highly likely, then go QB in 2023.
How about drafting a qb to groom for possibly 2023…and trade the loser of the qb battle for a draft choice?
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
Daboll 2nd Interview - ( New Window )
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Now, who will our coordinators be??
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
They both coached in NE at the same time.
Strahan - I don't believe Flores requires permission because he was let go. I thought I read they may have talked to him (or at least reached out) before the Schoen hiring. I could be wrong so if anyone has more accurate information, they may be able to comment further.
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Now, who will our coordinators be??
It will be interesting to see what happens with Graham. I think the Giants brass like him...I don't know if he and Daboll have a connection - could it be that Jints Central pushes Graham onto Daboll like they did with Garrett and Judge?
They overlapped for a few years on the Pats coaching staff so it's plausible that Daboll is the one who's interested in keeping Graham on as DC. Not to mention, Judge wanted to bring Daboll over as OC when he took the job and obviously handpicked Graham from their time in NE as well so it's not a big leap to guess that Daboll and Graham have a relationship
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Wonder if maybe he's not so interested in the job. My preference is Daboll anyways so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that Schefter and others said they requested permission from the Dolphins and haven't heard a peep since
Strahan - I don't believe Flores requires permission because he was let go. I thought I read they may have talked to him (or at least reached out) before the Schoen hiring. I could be wrong so if anyone has more accurate information, they may be able to comment further.
He does. I was surprised to learn that as well. See Schefter's tweet
Link - ( New Window )
Can you imagine if they denied it? "We'd prefer he was unemployed."
Agreed. This combined with the fact that he and Schoen have no pre-existing relationship makes Flores a pretty sizable risk for the organization as it stands today and I say that as someone who likes Flores and thinks he's going to have success at his next stop.
I'm getting these vibes as well.
In addition, the only sort of wildcard or totally unexpected name we've heard is the Bengals DC who used to be here on Shurmur's staff?
When are the Quinn and Flores interviews happening? If Daboll comes on are we expecting Graham back?
That’s got to be tough you know he’s got to be mentally and emotionally drained after last night
I believe it's because they're still paying him his contract. If he gets another job, what they have to pay him is offset by his new contract.
Colloquially we say a coach is fired, but for 99% of them the press release says "relieved of their duties"
Being fully guaranteed contracts, unless they are fired for a reason that allows the contract to be terminated, the coach will remain on the teams payroll until the contract expires. Thus, even though he was fired Flores is still employed by Miami and a request has to be made
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
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How is he still under contract?
I believe it's because they're still paying him his contract. If he gets another job, what they have to pay him is offset by his new contract.
Think of it more as he has been relieved of his duties. There is still a legally binding contract (which is why he is still getting paid) but he has just been told he is not needed to coach the team any longer.
Coordinators , and position coaches, may be more important than the HC at this point. Our most recent set were teachers, but apparently not very good ones.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
We also had a defensive and offensive line. Without that it doesn't matter who is the quarterback or running back.
This has been our Achilles heel since our last superbowl.
This better not be "here we go again"...
Give the kid his pick and F off the decision tree Mara.
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It seems odd to me that this guy was coaching in one of the craziest games of all time until 10:00 eastern time last night, and less than 24 hours later, he's interviewing for one of the most important roles in a billion dollar organization.
That’s got to be tough you know he’s got to be mentally and emotionally drained after last night
It is weird, but only other thing I can think of is maybe they didn't get as much time with Daboll and Frazier due to the prep and travel the Bill were undergoing.
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Gabirel Davis is a second year late 4th round pick. Last night he had 8 catches, 201 yards, and 4 touchdowns.
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for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Right. Not sure how people can watch this weekends games and think the plan should be to do what we did a decade ago.
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feels like our previous GM hiring. Does not feel like a real process. I hope Daboll turns out to be a great Head coach.
I'm getting these vibes as well.
In addition, the only sort of wildcard or totally unexpected name we've heard is the Bengals DC who used to be here on Shurmur's staff?
When are the Quinn and Flores interviews happening? If Daboll comes on are we expecting Graham back?
uh, the difference being that the GM who was hired has his own vision and his own HC whom will effectuate said vision.
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I sure hope he can bring Ken Dorsey with him as OC
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
As of May 2020 the coaching block rule has been removed. So Dorsey would be able to interview for the OC position
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
Who you like for HC JC?
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for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
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I sure hope he can bring Ken Dorsey with him as OC
This needs to stop being brought up.
If the Giants hire Daboll the Bills are going to block any Dorsey interview for OC because they are just going to make him their OC... Just like they blocked Judge from interviewing Daboll.
If you want Dorsey you are going to have to hire him as HC unless Buffalo cans him.
OC/QB Coach name to watch - Shea Tierny
He's followed Daboll from Alabama and Allen credits him a ton for their success.
“He's been here since day one,” Allen continued. “He's basically Daboll’s right-hand man. He makes all the cut-ups. He makes all the install pages. He runs our scout defense. Just the energy and juice that he brings, too, he's just one of the guys and he loves football. That's what I love about him.
Shea Tierney - ( New Window )
feels like a long time
feels like a long time
Look at Bruce Arians. Not everyone climbs the ranks in 3 years like Sean McVay
feels like a long time
Sometimes guys are just a victim of circumstances. In his prior OC stops before Buffalo his QB's were Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Matt Cassel and Matt Moore. Hell, even Daniel Jones might be better than any of those guys. Before anyone gets all hot and bothered, that's an indictment on how bad those guys were, not an endorsement of Jones.
feels like a long time
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In comment 15571619 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
A little Defense would have been helpful last night. Look at the 49ers, they play great D and good enough offense with a high flying offensive HC. D still wins championships. However, I'd still like Daboll over Flores...but Quinn over both.
I thought Reid had great respect for Allen and I noticed he tried to stay with the ground game and it worked well until the injuries hit the secondary. Then McDermott gifted him a second chance.
Link - ( New Window )
I have no idea if he will be a good coach but I hope they find the right QB to pair with him.
It's entirely plausible that Trubisky beats Jones out in a qb competition if that's the direction they go in.
Agreed. I think it's the right move too.
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
Shurmur was a HC twice, how did that work out...lol
The Giants have used the first round on offense almost exclusively since 2012 (9 of 12 picks), yet the offense only gets worse.
That entire side of the ball needs to be broken down and rebuilt. The way they play offense also has to be completely rethought.
Daboll seems like a good candidate to do that.
I have no idea if he will be a good coach but I hope they find the right QB to pair with him.
This weekends QB play was insane. Think about the QBs we watched all weekend:
1) Mahomes
2) Allen
3) Stafford
4) Brady
5) Burrow
6) Rodgers
And Allen and Mahomes were just super-human last night. Crazy.
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was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
That team came together at the right time. The defense stepped up as did the OL. And Jacobs and Bradshaw were hurting most of the early season (IIRC) and finally got a bit healthy right before the playoff run.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Brian Daboll's actual interview with the Giants will take place at the team facility on Tuesday. Sounds like he is coming downstate later today to be in place for the morning meeting, which created some timeline confusion. Just as Quinn was here yesterday for today's interview.
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In comment 15571716 RollBlue said:
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was terrible. They ranked 30th in rushing yards that year. Coaching and having some star players step up and make plays is important (Eli, Nicks, Cruz, MM, Tuck, JPP, etc.).
Funny how Zeigler is close to all pro material at RG in Cleveland and in Baltimore, but was not very good with NYG. Maybe coaching has something to do with it???
You are right about the offensive line, but they played solid towards the end of the season and especially in the playoffs. It was the last push from Mckenzie, snee and diehl plus they got something out of bass, beatty and boothe.
They also had a defensive line of Osi, Tuck, JPP and Canty.
That team came together at the right time. The defense stepped up as did the OL. And Jacobs and Bradshaw were hurting most of the early season (IIRC) and finally got a bit healthy right before the playoff run.
And obviously Eli just took it to a whole other level.
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@TomRock_Newsday
Replying to @TomRock_Newsday
That said, I would not be shocked if there are dinner plans between some Giants decision-makers and Daboll for tonight.
+1
its not really a farce because its good to have a GM aligned with the HC.
The extensive GM search basically told us the direction we were going with the HC hire.
Flores is a good coach but the rift between him and management isn't something you want with your organization.
2) Is a known quantity (as a person / coach) by the GM
3) Apparently has a good working relationship with the GM (personality, alignment of vision, etc.)
Nothing is guaranteed. Our team might suck. He might be a bad HC, whatever. But those 3 things are a good foundation.
@KimJonesSports
Josh Allen: “I think teams would be foolish not to offer Brian Daboll a job.” Adds would love to have him back but seems to believe that is unlikely. #BUF #NYG
2) Is a known quantity (as a person / coach) by the GM
3) Apparently has a good working relationship with the GM (personality, alignment of vision, etc.)
Nothing is guaranteed. Our team might suck. He might be a bad HC, whatever. But those 3 things are a good foundation.
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The coaching search is a farce.
its not really a farce because its good to have a GM aligned with the HC.
The extensive GM search basically told us the direction we were going with the HC hire.
Flores is a good coach but the rift between him and management isn't something you want with your organization.
Several years of working together will tell you way more about a guy's ability to the job than a couple interviews.
If Daboll is the guy - I'm cool with it.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
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People want guarantees where none exist.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Based on where they were selected, you could have a draft where Rodgers Mahomes Drew Brees Russell Wilson and Tom Brady all came out together and it would be labeled a weak draft class.
Dak too
So you interview other potentials. You might get surprised. You might get some information you didn't have before. You get other views of your team and roster.
Im assuming they would ask questions like.. who do you see asn your OC..who do you see as your DC.. you might hear a name several times, so that would bear looking into.
One of the many reason you interview multiple clinets
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People want guarantees where none exist.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
Sean, that's exactly what I think they should be doing. That, and talking to Jim Harbaugh to see what it would take for him to leave Michigan.
I guess Daboll can work out here, but if you look across the league, it's a real long shot. There are a lot more Adam Gase situations than there are McVays. And regarding the latter and his coaching tree. Every single one of those guys has a big time QB now. Staley, Taylor, McVay himself to a slightly lesser extent.
The NFL is a QB driven league, not a "scientific offensive mind" league. It's the QBs that make the coordinators into head coaches, not the other way around.
Daboll will be walking in here a first time head coach going from Josh Allen to Daniel Jones at the QB position while an angry fanbase with pitchforks being sharpened awaits success. And it had better come quickly.
wait no totally disagree...
a head coach isnt going to spend his time implementing his offensive scheme with the offense. That is the OC's job to understand and implement.
The HC has a way bigger list of responsibility now and his job is essentially to manage his ast coaches and coordinators. Not run the offense.
You're dreaming if you think Daboll will survive more than 2 years if the winning doesn't start well within that timeframe.
The PLAN right now should be how do we bring instant credibility to this franchise to avoid that scenario. No offense, Daboll doesn't bring that.
Sean Payton would. Jim Harbaugh would.
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There has been no plan here for years.
You're dreaming if you think Daboll will survive more than 2 years if the winning doesn't start well within that timeframe.
The PLAN right now should be how do we bring instant credibility to this franchise to avoid that scenario. No offense, Daboll doesn't bring that.
Sean Payton would. Jim Harbaugh would.
disagree this year is a complete wash. Anyone with any expectations this year are crazy. Schoen is going to have to purge a lot of the roster just to be cap compliant. You just want to see some young players develop as we might have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL.
The following year there is likely to be a rookie QB in the fold. You can't expect much there so he will mostly be judged on the QB's rookie progression.
Year 3 is when he will fully get judged on W/L IMO...same was going to happen to judge until he started to self implode.
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In comment 15572065 Go Terps said:
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People want guarantees where none exist.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
Sean, that's exactly what I think they should be doing. That, and talking to Jim Harbaugh to see what it would take for him to leave Michigan.
I guess Daboll can work out here, but if you look across the league, it's a real long shot. There are a lot more Adam Gase situations than there are McVays. And regarding the latter and his coaching tree. Every single one of those guys has a big time QB now. Staley, Taylor, McVay himself to a slightly lesser extent.
The NFL is a QB driven league, not a "scientific offensive mind" league. It's the QBs that make the coordinators into head coaches, not the other way around.
Daboll will be walking in here a first time head coach going from Josh Allen to Daniel Jones at the QB position while an angry fanbase with pitchforks being sharpened awaits success. And it had better come quickly.
Daboll being a successful HC is not a given….in fact, at best it might be 50-50. He is not a proven HC….he may a proven OC, but you have to add, a proven OC with Josh Allen as your QB.
There is absolutely no way Daniel Jones can be a Josh Allen….no way. And I’ve asked this question many times with no answer I’ve seen….would we even be interested in Daboll if Daniel Jones was the starting qb in Buffalo?
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT…NO IN FACT I KNOW WE WOULDNT BE. Well guess what, for now, Daniel Jones would be his qb….what makes me think he could be successful as a HC or even an OC without Josh Allen?
Oh well….if Schoen wants his buddy from Buffalo to be our HC, it can’t be any worse than Judge, so let it play out.
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
Exactly.
We've seen people saying that this isn't an impressive group of coaching candidates - I don't agree. There's no Belichick or Saban, but that's a long way from unimpressive.
Same thing with the QBs in this draft. Andrew Luck isn't going to be in every draft. It doesn't mean the draft sucks.
I agree on coaches. Don't agree on QB prospects from the sole perspective of there are none that were looked at as even top candidates period, let alone all-time QB prospects.
Daboll being a successful HC is not a given….in fact, at best it might be 50-50. He is not a proven HC….he may a proven OC, but you have to add, a proven OC with Josh Allen as your QB.
There is absolutely no way Daniel Jones can be a Josh Allen….no way. And I’ve asked this question many times with no answer I’ve seen….would we even be interested in Daboll if Daniel Jones was the starting qb in Buffalo?
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT…NO IN FACT I KNOW WE WOULDNT BE. Well guess what, for now, Daniel Jones would be his qb….what makes me think he could be successful as a HC or even an OC without Josh Allen?
Oh well….if Schoen wants his buddy from Buffalo to be our HC, it can’t be any worse than Judge, so let it play out.
This is such a ridiculous notion. It's like people don't know that last year was not Josh Allen's rookie year and the player he is today is who he's always been.
Anyone who thinks Daboll can come in here and go 5-12 both years and not be immediately want gone by the majority of the fans is kidding themselves.
Fans will tolerate losing if there's progress and hope on the horizon. The Giants haven't made any strides in a long time and there's nothing right now in the short term to be hopeful about aside from a regime change.
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
let's just wait and see...
Now, we are hiring a guy who is supposedly way better than Gettleman and a coach who is supposedly way better than Judge, how are fans going to react if we still suck for 2 more years?
Not all. Some of us were really unhappy with the process/suddenness and as it came out later, Giants were inordinately sloppy with their evaluation. Judge was not qualified and it showed.
But for 2022 anyway, the new coach and GM will get some rope considering that they're taking over maybe the worst roster in the NFL, with no cap space, and with no quarterback.
Schoen and Daboll (or whomever) would be better served to start with an expansion draft than they would with this current situation. It is that bad.
Exactly. You want a guarantee? Call the Saints and offer a first for Sean Payton, but those same fans will lose their shit over that too.
I proposed this very idea yesterday on the Payton thread.
I would support this move in a heartbeat.
It's certainly worth calling Payton's agent to test the waters. Despite things I can't stand about him personally, he's a great HC, play-caller, strategist and developer of talent.
Conversely, people recognize that McCarthy should be fired even though he won a lot of games.
Of course, you have to win at some point, but most people can see what's happening a judge a coach based on more factors than just the record.
But for 2022 anyway, the new coach and GM will get some rope considering that they're taking over maybe the worst roster in the NFL, with no cap space, and with no quarterback.
Schoen and Daboll (or whomever) would be better served to start with an expansion draft than they would with this current situation. It is that bad.
Saying the roster is worse than an expansion team is ridiculous, even for you. The defense only needs a couple of players and the offense has skill players and needs a good OC and a rebuilt line, which is clearly going to happen
Reading comprehension horrendous around here lately.
Reading comprehension horrendous around here lately.
Again you think an expansion roster would be better than this one. You're an idiot, but we all know that already
I think his point is that as an expansion team you have a clean cap sheet, not that the roster next season would be better than it will be if they were an expansion team.
Reading comprehension horrendous around here lately.
You hyperbolize constantly and then snap at people for misunderstanding you lol. Foolish.
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I said it's maybe the worst in the league, and with the cap situation they'd be better starting as an expansion team (i.e. from scratch).
Reading comprehension horrendous around here lately.
You hyperbolize constantly and then snap at people for misunderstanding you lol. Foolish.
Dreadful and capped out is the worst condition a roster can be in. Zero hyperbole there.
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I said it's maybe the worst in the league, and with the cap situation they'd be better starting as an expansion team (i.e. from scratch).
Reading comprehension horrendous around here lately.
You hyperbolize constantly and then snap at people for misunderstanding you lol. Foolish.
Seems like you understand hyperbole but then pretend not to?
You serious or spoofing.
You re passing on him because of that picture? What do you find so off putting, curious?
If it were me, I would want ONE DAY to maybe get a little rest and prepare myself for the interview. The team charter probably landed early this morning in Buffalo
I was patient for 3-4 years with Gettleman until it was clear it was never going to improve. Hopefully it doesn’t take that long this time.
I was patient for 3-4 years with Gettleman until it was clear it was never going to improve. Hopefully it doesn’t take that long this time.
Actually patience isn't the key. Hiring competent professionals that have strong evaluation skills and think through how a roster should be built for long term success is the key.
Gettleman displayed none of that in year 1 and desperately tried to reverse course in year 2, and deserved no patience. It's okay, a lot of people missed it...
Actually patience isn't the key. Hiring competent professionals that have strong evaluation skills and think through how a roster should be built for long term success is the key.
Gettleman displayed none of that in year 1 and desperately tried to reverse course in year 2, and deserved no patience. It's okay, a lot of people missed it...
Whoever is hired as HC, he and the GM will have the same task: find and develop a franchise QB. And, hopefully, quickly. It's really that straightforward to me.
Unless you solve that problem, we really don't have the right team.
Of course, it doesn't meant that Daboll is going to work out and we really have no way of knowing that but good Lord, find better reasons to knock him other than "he's not a sure thing."
The fans will take losing if there's a plan they agree with.
That happens a lot here, as you'd expect being a discussion board.
Plus, if the team loses some on here will continue to use "ownership" as an excuse.
I was patient for 3-4 years with Gettleman until it was clear it was never going to improve. Hopefully it doesn’t take that long this time.
Issue with a new GM is, he's not really going to care what suffering we've gone thru as fans.
He's going to try to build the team per his plan, and that might take satm three years, with some losing.
Patience is essential.
Does BBI have it in them? LOL
BBI sure is a treasure. Where else can you find a bunch of pathetic losers that couldn’t get laid in a brothel, yet are constantly ridiculing other peoples appearance?
Classic.
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feels like our previous GM hiring. Does not feel like a real process. I hope Daboll turns out to be a great Head coach.
I'm getting these vibes as well.
In addition, the only sort of wildcard or totally unexpected name we've heard is the Bengals DC who used to be here on Shurmur's staff?
When are the Quinn and Flores interviews happening? If Daboll comes on are we expecting Graham back?
Feels like a fait accompli
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I don't want any fat head coaches. Pass on Daboll.
BBI sure is a treasure. Where else can you find a bunch of pathetic losers that couldn’t get laid in a brothel, yet are constantly ridiculing other peoples appearance?
Classic.
lol nice
But, the Bills have Josh Allen. His playmaking ability keeps drives alive. He can also make any throw which makes the offense that much harder to defend. Daniel Jones does not have that same ability.
Jones has similar size (not quite as big) and might even be a bit faster than Allen in a straight line. But, Allens movement skills and ability to buy time is 100x better. eJones is below average at evading pressure.
Allen can also throw very well on the run/off platform, something Jones is below average at. Something very subtle, but most of the great young QB's can throw on the run without slowing down (Allen, Mahomes, Herbert). Jones has to gear it down to about half speed and even then, he's not very accurate and can't get much behind it.
I'm not optimistic about Dabolls offense if Jones is the guy running it. Jones skillset is not even comparable. Josh Allen makes that Bills offense go (he is the 2021 MVP IMO). I do give Daboll credit for putting together a scheme that magnifies Allen's talents and allowed him to develop into a top 2 QB. I'm sure he can get more out of DJ, but the ceiling is MUCH lower.
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In comment 15571619 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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for this franchise. Defense in the playoffs and a big play QB with a running game.
For those who say what about the 2011 team. Point totals for the playoffs the D let up. 3, 20. 21, 21. QB's faced. Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady.
Whoever is the HC I hope they know the blueprint.
I really hope we are not hiring anyone who is trying to figure out how to win a championship by looking backwards several decades to a game that was much different than today's game.
Several decades? There was commonality in all four that are still applicable today. Physicality is the kryptonite to a high flying offense. I'll take that over relying on the hope of landing a generational QB and that they can stay healthy. Simple principles still will win today.
I think it is a different NFL from 2012. A strong defense is important and we will get to see what happens when LA or SF end up playing KC in the Super Bowl. FWIW, I see only a small chance the Bengals beat KC. But it will fun to see either NFC defense vs KC's offense.
How do you feel about Bill Parcells? Andy Reid?
Isn’t that how they found Judge? And maybe Shurmur?
My question about Daboll is not so much about his ability to improve the offense, but can he lead a team? How organized is he? Can he motivate players? Is he able to put together a solid staff? What style of leadership does he possess, Passive or boisterous ? There’s a lot of more intangibles that we need to know before we call him a decent candidate. Yea, I believe he can put together a decent offense, but is he Head Coach material?
So you'd pass on a young Parcells or John Madden bc they're fat?
You're a fatist!
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I don't want any fat head coaches. Pass on Daboll.
So you'd pass on a young Parcells or John Madden bc they're fat?
You're a fatist!
How could I forget the walrus, Andy Reid!
Yea, I think that would be a good idea, however I don’t see us drafting anQB in round 2 then. It’d be a wasted pick IMO. If neither QB works out next year, which is highly likely, then go QB in 2023.
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I sure hope he brings Mitch Trubiskey with him. I’d like to see he and DJ battle for the job. Also have no problem drafting another qb, maybe in round 2.
Yea, I think that would be a good idea, however I don’t see us drafting anQB in round 2 then. It’d be a wasted pick IMO. If neither QB works out next year, which is highly likely, then go QB in 2023.
How about drafting a qb to groom for possibly 2023…and trade the loser of the qb battle for a draft choice?