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NFT: 1/25 Knicks Talk

JohninSC : 1/25/2022 8:01 am
RJ Barrett

Quote:
RJ Barrett shot 5-for-10 from the free-throw line tonight. “That’s 10 points,” he tells reporters in Cleveland. “We lose by two…I can’t be out there letting the team down missing that many free throws…I’m gonna fix that."


That right there is why he is the leader of the team and the best player the Knicks have. Give me that.

Thibs leash is getting much, much shorter.

Randle just needs to go. He's the same player he was his whole career. Last year was the anomaly.

Ironic, Quickleys nickname is IQ, especially when he shows little of it at times.

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RE: Randle and Kemba  
GNewGiants : 1/25/2022 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15573924 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
To Portland for CJ could be a possibility. Simons is going to get paid so they need to make room in the backcourt.


I said this in the offseason. Kemba is washed goods. I dont even think teams want him as a filler.

I can easily see the Knicks and Kemba parting ways - which means GM Lebron will be knocking down on the door for another aging veteran.
RE: Randle and Kemba  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15573924 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
To Portland for CJ could be a possibility. Simons is going to get paid so they need to make room in the backcourt.


Simons has been playing amazing for them
RE: RE: Randle and Kemba  
ajr2456 : 1/25/2022 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15573929 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15573924 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


To Portland for CJ could be a possibility. Simons is going to get paid so they need to make room in the backcourt.



I said this in the offseason. Kemba is washed goods. I dont even think teams want him as a filler.

I can easily see the Knicks and Kemba parting ways - which means GM Lebron will be knocking down on the door for another aging veteran.


Portland would probably be able to get out of most of year 2 of Kembas deal based on the exhibit 3 of his deal. Portland desperately needs the front court help.
RE: RE: RE: Randle and Kemba  
GNewGiants : 1/25/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15573942 ajr2456 said:
Quote:

Portland would probably be able to get out of most of year 2 of Kembas deal based on the exhibit 3 of his deal. Portland desperately needs the front court help.


Lillard quote from the other day kind of interested me. HE said if Portland was gonna tank, he would sit out the year. I kind of read that he wants them to tank to get a high pick. Which then would obviously be traded to help him get another player.

If a team was interested in trading for randle, the Kings still seem to be the team to go after. Maybe not Barnes, but what about Bagley and Mitchell? I think Sac holds onto Fox which makes Mitchell's role limited.
RE: Whats Randle's Contract Like?  
shyster : 1/25/2022 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15573470 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
Would any team take him with his contract? How realistic is it that he can even be moved?


Knicks owe him 4yr/29M beginning next season.

As mentioned at the end of the thread last night, Randle's deal has a 15% trade kicker that applies to the balance remaining on his contract.

Which means a deal now would cost the Knicks an $18M going away present and a 15% premium would be added to the cap hit of the acquiring team. Translating to a 4yr/33.6M cap consequence for his new team.

I doubt Randle's contract can be moved without attaching a pick. And the Knicks are down one after the Reddish trade.
as much as we hate Randle  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 12:50 pm : link
he is not a horrible player he has value accross the league guaranteed
and randle is most likely not hitting his bonuses  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 12:51 pm : link
..
RE: its simple  
adamg : 1/25/2022 12:57 pm : link
In comment 15573396 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Trade Randle for Barnes and a pick

Buyout Kemba..

Trade Burks to a contender for a pick and filler..

Tell Fournier he is going to come off the bench

Quick/rose
grimes/fournier
Rj/reddish
Barnes/obi
Mitch/Noel

Fournier only plays around 25 minutes a night, Reddish, Grimes and Rj get the bulk of the wkng minutes


Do it Rose!
RE: Randle and Kemba  
TyreeHelmet : 1/25/2022 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15573924 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
To Portland for CJ could be a possibility. Simons is going to get paid so they need to make room in the backcourt.


I probably like Randle more than most but I would still do this deal. Is this really a possibility being discussed?
RE: as much as we hate Randle  
Mike in NJ : 1/25/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15574003 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he is not a horrible player he has value accross the league guaranteed


I don't know, lately he's been pretty horrible. High volume, inefficient scorer, turnover machine, high usage rate, lazy on D. I'm sure he has value based off of last year, but the longer this shit goes on the faster that value is going to drop.
Still fuming over last night  
Stu11 : 1/25/2022 1:24 pm : link
The schedule is so brutal the next month and Cleveland is very good but no Allen, and they had an off night and were so beatable and we handed that game away. I have stick by Randle but he had no business playing a minute in the 4th qtr. The clock is ticking on Rose at this point. I've been fine with what he's done, but he must find this team a PG. Pronto. No excuses. Imagine a guy getting RJ the ball in the right spots?
Some thoughts on Randle:  
81_Great_Dane : 1/25/2022 1:25 pm : link
1) Athletes slump or get distracted for the same reasons any of us slump or get distracted at work: Trouble at home, depression, death or illness in the family. We don't know what's going on with these guys. Maybe there's a passing cloud in his life. Or maybe not, and this is just who he is.

2) He had extra time to prepare for the 2020-21 season. Maybe he needs that extra time. I don't know what he can do about that. The goal is to be playing in June.

3) As others have noted, it may not be a coincidence that he had his best season without fans in the building. He may be too sensitive to the crowd. I don't know what he can do about that, either.
Found this hilarious  
JohninSC : 1/25/2022 1:35 pm : link
RE: Still fuming over last night  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15574127 Stu11 said:
Quote:
The schedule is so brutal the next month and Cleveland is very good but no Allen, and they had an off night and were so beatable and we handed that game away. I have stick by Randle but he had no business playing a minute in the 4th qtr. The clock is ticking on Rose at this point. I've been fine with what he's done, but he must find this team a PG. Pronto. No excuses. Imagine a guy getting RJ the ball in the right spots?


if he doesnt make a move he will be killed
Randle..  
djm : 1/25/2022 1:41 pm : link
push another good player out of MSG. Whatever works. We've been down this road many times before.

RJB is not as good as Randle. He may never be. And why do we have to praise one while condemning the other? Why can't these two guys co-exist? They play two different positions and play a different style but now every other post seems to go out of its way to vault RJB while killing Randle? What's that all about?

Randle has had an off year, but I find it disturbing we are going to run this guy out of town because of some back-round noise.

He will be an all star elsewhere. We better get a lot back for Randle that's all I know.

PS  
djm : 1/25/2022 1:42 pm : link
last night sucked.
RE: RJs last 3  
djm : 1/25/2022 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15573805 JohninSC said:
Quote:
was because Randle didn't get him the ball sooner. RJ would have preferred the 2 instead of a last second 3.


You gotta be kidding me. RJB should have attacked the basket but we're gonna blame Randle ?

This has spiraled. Been there done that.
RE: RE: Randle for Barnes and a pick  
Heisenberg : 1/25/2022 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15573883 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15573850 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


is a tanking move. I'm ok with tanking, but that's what it is. If the Knicks can't get better at the deadline, I'd be ok with them getting worse to play young guys.



its not a tanking move


Well, I guess we disagree then on whether that would improve the starting lineup.
RE: Randle..  
Mike in NJ : 1/25/2022 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15574176 djm said:
Quote:
push another good player out of MSG. Whatever works. We've been down this road many times before.

RJB is not as good as Randle. He may never be. And why do we have to praise one while condemning the other? Why can't these two guys co-exist? They play two different positions and play a different style but now every other post seems to go out of its way to vault RJB while killing Randle? What's that all about?

Randle has had an off year, but I find it disturbing we are going to run this guy out of town because of some back-round noise.

He will be an all star elsewhere. We better get a lot back for Randle that's all I know.


Randle is who he is, last year was the outlier. He is playing the same way he did his first year here, the way he did in New Orleans, and the way he did in Los Angeles before that. It isn't like his performance this season is some shock, it's him coming back down to Earth.

I guess  
djm : 1/25/2022 1:50 pm : link
adding real fucking pgs to this team for the first time in 50 years wouldn't help things, since Randle is the only ball handler on the team that doesn't do god awfully stupid shit (IQ shooting from lake erie during the biggest possession) or disappear completely (Hi Alec Burks)

We have no PGs. Ever. For about 5 minutes I thought we did have them this year but then Kemba turned into a smiling matador who shoots well once a week, Rose broke in half and IG stayed IQ.

No PGs. That's why Randle is struggling. Most scoring forwards do when the PGs are garbage.

Could be wrong, but when in doubt, look at the glaring weaknesses and go from there. The best PG on this team the last 2 years was Elfrid Fucking Payton.
RE: RE: Randle..  
djm : 1/25/2022 1:52 pm : link
In comment 15574199 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15574176 djm said:


Quote:


push another good player out of MSG. Whatever works. We've been down this road many times before.

RJB is not as good as Randle. He may never be. And why do we have to praise one while condemning the other? Why can't these two guys co-exist? They play two different positions and play a different style but now every other post seems to go out of its way to vault RJB while killing Randle? What's that all about?

Randle has had an off year, but I find it disturbing we are going to run this guy out of town because of some back-round noise.

He will be an all star elsewhere. We better get a lot back for Randle that's all I know.




Randle is who he is, last year was the outlier. He is playing the same way he did his first year here, the way he did in New Orleans, and the way he did in Los Angeles before that. It isn't like his performance this season is some shock, it's him coming back down to Earth.


OK, I guess...he's still the best player on the team by virtually every single metric known to man and again, check those PGs.

Randle is the problem and isn't the problem. He played insanely well last season and has come back to earth. Maybe we should try and figure out why instead of dumping him in a ridiculously short sighted and bad trade like Barnes. Cmon already.
RE: Randle..  
JohninSC : 1/25/2022 2:07 pm : link
In comment 15574176 djm said:
Quote:
push another good player out of MSG. Whatever works. We've been down this road many times before.

RJB is not as good as Randle. He may never be. And why do we have to praise one while condemning the other? Why can't these two guys co-exist? They play two different positions and play a different style but now every other post seems to go out of its way to vault RJB while killing Randle? What's that all about?

Randle has had an off year, but I find it disturbing we are going to run this guy out of town because of some back-round noise.

He will be an all star elsewhere. We better get a lot back for Randle that's all I know.


I've been off the Randle train as early as game 2 of this year. He isn't as good as you think he is. I don't know if you're watching the games or not. But RJB is surpassing Randle.
The entirety of this article is paywalled, but the opening part is not  
Mike from SI : 1/25/2022 2:09 pm : link
Some good stats in here:

Quote:
Let's start with RJ Barrett, who poured in 24 points (on 9-of-16 shooting) to go along with five rebounds, four assists (vs. just one turnover) and two steals vs. Cleveland. Dating back to New Year's Eve, Barrett is averaging 23.2 points, 6.6 rebounds, 3.5 assists and 2.2 treys, while shooting 45.6% from the floor and over 39% from downtown. That's a 13-game sample size, which is by no means insignificant.

To put those all-around numbers in context, consider this: Only two players have tallied more than 300 points, 75 rebounds, 50 made free throws and 25 made three-pointers since the end of December. One is LeBron James. The other is RJ Barrett.

The key to unlocking Barrett's success since his return from Covid protocols last month has been his relentless attacks at the tin. Barrett is averaging more than 15 drives per game during this recent stretch, and 73.9% of all the points he's scored inside the arc resulted from drives to the basket. Not only is that highest among all Knicks, but it's also nearly double every other player on the team (Randle ranks second at 8.5 drives per game).

RJ has scored a total of 147 points off drives in 2022, which ranks fifth in the entire league, behind only Ja Morant, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Luka Doncic and De'Aaron Fox (and ahead of stars such as Giannis Antetokounmpo and Trae Young).

Link - ( New Window )
RE: I guess  
adamg : 1/25/2022 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15574202 djm said:
Quote:
adding real fucking pgs to this team for the first time in 50 years wouldn't help things, since Randle is the only ball handler on the team that doesn't do god awfully stupid shit (IQ shooting from lake erie during the biggest possession) or disappear completely (Hi Alec Burks)

We have no PGs. Ever. For about 5 minutes I thought we did have them this year but then Kemba turned into a smiling matador who shoots well once a week, Rose broke in half and IG stayed IQ.

No PGs. That's why Randle is struggling. Most scoring forwards do when the PGs are garbage.

Could be wrong, but when in doubt, look at the glaring weaknesses and go from there. The best PG on this team the last 2 years was Elfrid Fucking Payton.


IQ had 6 assists to 1 TO last night. He may be shooting like shit. But he's a good point guard.

That last sentence disqualifies you from ever commenting on Knicks threads.
Randle is just not a fit  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 2:11 pm : link
its the westbrook effect, he is great when he is the only guy and just go out and control the entire game, when you add some better players and takeaway some of his playmaking and time with the ball he becomes less of a player..

If you dont think Randle is the reason they lost last night i dont know what to tell you..

On the play Rj took the 3, there was no reason the ball should of been in Randles hands, zero, ball should of been given to Rj right away and let him attack the basket
and yes replacing Randle with Barnes  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 2:13 pm : link
who is averaging 17 a game, 45% shooting 42% from 3 is a tanking move
Barnes is underrated  
adamg : 1/25/2022 2:14 pm : link
He's a solid starting 4. He'd be perfect next to RJ and IQ.
DJM  
Mike from SI : 1/25/2022 2:41 pm : link
That Elf comment is heresy. You gotta retract that.
RE: DJM  
Jim in Fairfax : 1/25/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15574347 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
That Elf comment is heresy. You gotta retract that.

Nobody wants Payton back. But it’s not heresy. Beyond his PG skills he was a floor leader. No one has filled that role on the team since his benching and departure.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Randle’s playing efficiency declined when Payton lost his playing time late last year.


.  
DanMetroMan : 1/25/2022 3:07 pm : link
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
15h
Just checked a stat for tomorrow's newsletter and Julius Randle is now officially the least efficient high usage player in the NBA. Among 38 players w/a usage rate above 26 (min. 20 games & 20 mpg), his eFG% of 46.4 ranks dead last. Also has the 4th worst TO ratio of the group.
RE: RE: DJM  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15574404 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15574347 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


That Elf comment is heresy. You gotta retract that.


Nobody wants Payton back. But it’s not heresy. Beyond his PG skills he was a floor leader. No one has filled that role on the team since his benching and departure.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Randle’s playing efficiency declined when Payton lost his playing time late last year.



this is sarcasm right?
djm, amen brother!  
PhilSimms15 : 1/25/2022 4:00 pm : link
We are now on our umpteenth management team that can't seem to find a PG. I think the last time the Knicks had a good PG was Kidd's one year on the team despite being over 40.

It's almost like the Giants with linebackers. Why did they take Obi over Haliburton or why did they take Kevin Knox over SGA?

it's really infuriating.
RE: RE: RE: DJM  
Jim in Fairfax : 1/25/2022 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15574442 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

this is sarcasm right?

Nope. I think Randle needs a take charge guy on the floor. He’s not the only one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: DJM  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 5:14 pm : link
In comment 15574679 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15574442 nygiants16 said:


Quote:



this is sarcasm right?


Nope. I think Randle needs a take charge guy on the floor. He’s not the only one.


You think Payton was a take charge PG?
Still trying very hard for Brunson  
ajr2456 : 1/25/2022 5:24 pm : link
They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline
It feels like there's a disconnect between the roster building  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2022 5:27 pm : link
And the coach's preferences.

Also, I reject that Payton notion.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2022 5:29 pm : link
We're just doing the thing where the guy that was here when the team was good is gone, and the the team isn't good so that missing guy was real important.
RE: Still trying very hard for Brunson  
Giantfan21 : 1/25/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15574710 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline


Why are they trying so hard to keep Obi when Thibs plays him 10 minutes a game ? If they believe him in so much then trade Randle and let Obi flourish. Otherwise, they are just wasting an asset

RE: RE: DJM  
Giantfan21 : 1/25/2022 5:32 pm : link
In comment 15574404 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15574347 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


That Elf comment is heresy. You gotta retract that.


Nobody wants Payton back. But it’s not heresy. Beyond his PG skills he was a floor leader. No one has filled that role on the team since his benching and departure.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Randle’s playing efficiency declined when Payton lost his playing time late last year.



RJ is trying but Thibs still won't put the ball in his hands enough even though with the way he is playing he is showing he deserves it.

Randle efficiency went down when the crowds came back
RE: RE: Still trying very hard for Brunson  
ajr2456 : 1/25/2022 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15574720 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574710 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline



Why are they trying so hard to keep Obi when Thibs plays him 10 minutes a game ? If they believe him in so much then trade Randle and let Obi flourish. Otherwise, they are just wasting an asset


Thibs will be gone soon. End of next year at the latest
RE: Still trying very hard for Brunson  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 6:11 pm : link
In comment 15574710 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline


I hope your right when it comes to Burks and Fournier
RE: RE: RE: Still trying very hard for Brunson  
Giantfan21 : 1/25/2022 6:19 pm : link
In comment 15574760 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574720 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


In comment 15574710 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline



Why are they trying so hard to keep Obi when Thibs plays him 10 minutes a game ? If they believe him in so much then trade Randle and let Obi flourish. Otherwise, they are just wasting an asset




Thibs will be gone soon. End of next year at the latest


It's not just about Thibs though. I have no insider knowledge other then what i read, but it appears just baed on their moves that there are different voices in the front office instead of 1 clear path. They have a bunch of young players who appear to have upside and are worth playing and developing while at the same time they go and sign Fournier, Burks, Kemba, Randle etc to block a good number of them.

Thibs deserves blame but at the same time so does the front office. I just dont know who in the front office to blame for this past offseason of giving Randle a huge extension off of 1 season with a terrible postseason, and then signing Fournier and Kemba 2 guys who can't play a lick of defense to play for Thibs
Jake Fischer says Knicks are very active in trade talks  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 7:08 pm : link
virtually everyone is available
RE: RE: RE: RE: Still trying very hard for Brunson  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2022 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15574797 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574760 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15574720 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


In comment 15574710 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


They’ve rebuffed every team so far that’s called about Obi.

I’d say better than 50% chance Burks or Fournier aren’t here after the deadline



Why are they trying so hard to keep Obi when Thibs plays him 10 minutes a game ? If they believe him in so much then trade Randle and let Obi flourish. Otherwise, they are just wasting an asset




Thibs will be gone soon. End of next year at the latest



It's not just about Thibs though. I have no insider knowledge other then what i read, but it appears just baed on their moves that there are different voices in the front office instead of 1 clear path. They have a bunch of young players who appear to have upside and are worth playing and developing while at the same time they go and sign Fournier, Burks, Kemba, Randle etc to block a good number of them.

Thibs deserves blame but at the same time so does the front office. I just dont know who in the front office to blame for this past offseason of giving Randle a huge extension off of 1 season with a terrible postseason, and then signing Fournier and Kemba 2 guys who can't play a lick of defense to play for Thibs



Saying they should have not paid Randle is one of those criticisms that is far easier to make now than when he was playing like one of the 15 best players in the NBA for a full season.

I dont really recall anyone arguing that they shouldn't
Signing guys wasn't a mistake.  
adamg : 1/25/2022 7:28 pm : link
They just need to consolidate those contracts into a star or at fewer better players.
RE: Jake Fischer says Knicks are very active in trade talks  
Mike in NJ : 1/25/2022 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15574884 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
virtually everyone is available


RJ better not be available. He’s the only guy I’ll be pissed about them moving.
Gut feeling Randle gets traded  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 8:36 pm : link
name is starting to circulate around the NBA
RE: RE: Jake Fischer says Knicks are very active in trade talks  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 8:36 pm : link
In comment 15575005 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15574884 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


virtually everyone is available



RJ better not be available. He’s the only guy I’ll be pissed about them moving.


I dont think he is, I think he only goes in a superstar type deal
RE: Gut feeling Randle gets traded  
Giantfan21 : 1/25/2022 8:41 pm : link
In comment 15575011 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
name is starting to circulate around the NBA


Which team would trade for him at this point ?
RE: RE: Gut feeling Randle gets traded  
nygiants16 : 1/25/2022 8:45 pm : link
In comment 15575013 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575011 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


name is starting to circulate around the NBA



Which team would trade for him at this point ?


There are teams that would trade for Randle, his deal is not awful for a 3rd option type of guy
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